Panasonic: I want to join the ranks, but I doubt it ...

[Wit]

Wit, Yes ... we haven't had trolls for a long time hasn't it

It's already the third month, Sasha

[Wit]

Wit, Yes ... we haven't had trolls for a long time hasn't it

Well, yes, a person looking around in a new sphere exclusively has the appearance of a troll.
Yeah))

The desire to eat deliciously without straining is certainly not a crime. But you have to pay for the pleasure. If you want to be as easy and relatively fast as possible (in 4 hours), buy Panasonic, use the recipes proven over the years from the instructions, dry fast-acting yeast and you will be happy! Just do not expect miracles at all - you will not get an identical bun baked in the oven, if you use only premium flour, the bread can turn out to be unusually rich, if the first grade, you will need to look after the bun at least for the first time (the one that I use had to fill a little more) well, etc. And if later you want to adjust the recipes to your taste or your soul asks for variety, then the body will have to be moved

I would like to add that you need to look after the kolobok from time to time in any case. I had a new pack of flour today and the dough floated with it. The bread turned out delicious, but I didn't even try to make cuts, because the dough was like a ciabatta.

Well, yes, a person looking around in a new sphere exclusively has the appearance of a troll.
Yeah))

Sorry, you are chewed-chewed on ten pages in several topics, and you have worked out the same thing.
Decide somewhere!

Sorry, you are chewed-chewed on ten pages in several topics, and you have worked out the same thing.
Decide somewhere!

Yes, I have already received the necessary amount of preliminary information, in principle.)
For which everyone THANKS A LOT!

Now it's all right in my head bake digest and "really decide somewhere"! ))

Good luck!
Share your impressions, ask questions about the case.
Beating around is also possible, but in specialized topics ...

[rs]

rs, you had a question how to automate baking sourdough, this HP is the only one of its kind that has such long proofing modes that allows you to do this.

Brand allows it too. There, in one program, you can program a long cycle as your heart desires.
But even there you have to think about how to program it and still follow the process. The word "automate" is also not appropriate. Just an assistant, nothing more.
Kenwood 450 too, even now there are new hp with the ability to lengthen the cycle. If you search, you can find.
There is an insanely expensive new fancy HP, there is also programmed an increased baking temperature, like in an oven, over 200 degrees.
Sana Smart Bread
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=412552.0
Here on the forum you can study the information and choose.
Another thing is that they all have their own characteristics and disadvantages. They bake differently and the automatic programs are all different. And they can break down quickly. Well, not all of them have temperature control during programming, but there is an increased love for temperatures over 30 degrees)))
That is, the programming methods are different.

Ride for special ingredients for rye bread))) for any HP is necessary.
For complex breads, participation in the baking process cannot be avoided.

But Panasonic bakes simple bread like no other, even on the machine. A trouble-free and hassle-free oven for beginners. Automatic programs in it are well thought out and successful. The most winning recipes when automatically executed for recipes from our forum

Here's what is known ...

Above you have given a picture with temperature sensors for models 2500-2512. Could you clarify where this information comes from and is there any other similar information about the processes of Panasonic bread makers that is missing in the instructions? )

While Natasha is busy. She found this picture on European sites about Panasonic and translated it.
In general, of course, it is very convenient to "rake in the heat with someone else's hands" ...
Wait for the obstruction!

All there is https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=394126.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=92766.0

While Natasha is busy. She found this picture on European sites about Panasonic and translated it.
In general, of course, it is very convenient to "rake in the heat with someone else's hands" ...
Wait for the obstruction!

mmm ... I'm a little at a loss ... a couple of my questions in two branches with an attempt to understand what is happening at a level a little deeper "than in the instructions" led to the reaction "to rake in the heat with someone else's hands" ... ((

isn’t a forum for sharing experiences? - do those who own it share with those who are interested in “grabbing heat by the hands of others”? .. ((

Posted on Friday 08 Apr 2016 11:13 AM

All there is

Thank you)

So change EXPERIENCE! Don't try to fill the sieve with water!
You have already been told several times, decide, buy and learn in the applied, so to speak, order!

So I have already, in general, decided thanks to the answers here and in the near future, most likely, there will be something to try on. ))

And if the "applied order" means trying this way, trying another way and then simply choosing the option you like better, not understanding WHY it was chosen - I don't like this approach.

Well, sorry! Then go to the store and shop there.

Well, sorry! Then go to the store and shop there.

But where does this conclusion come from?) I don't want to go to the store and at the same time understand what I'm doing)

To the store for bread, I mean. There, neither theory nor practice is needed, only a wallet.

To the store for bread, I mean. There, neither theory nor practice is needed, only a wallet.

So I am about the store for bread - I don't want to go there))

In! I chatted about the second loaf, but I still can't figure it out!

buy Panasonic, use recipes proven over the years from the instructions,

Panasonic, this is certainly an excellent HP, but as for the recipes from the attached instructions, they are all written under a carbon copy by someone unknown, but not by a baker. Each HP can be adapted to almost any recipe, you just have to switch to semi-automatic mode.

... we haven't had trolls for a long time hasn't it?

... And we are being led, like EVERYTHING !!! You noticed?..
we give him recipes, photos and persuasions ...
Directly newsreel "I want to know everything" ...

Energetic person, I even envy ... partly ...

And as I understand it, people have already decided on the choice towards Panasonic))) This is an anticipated pleasure in advance - to learn everything about a future purchase.

However, I still repeat (only for him)
1. You will first grow a sourdough and bake a successful bread in the oven. At least you will know for sure if you are fit for this difficult task: to grow a good leaven and cherish it. Believe me
it is just in words everything is simple, but in reality you may abandon this activity. Decide in practice what you are capable of.

2. If you pass the first test and you are sure that sourdough bread is yours, then decide how much it is yours))) Will you make several sourdough breads for Panasonic from our forum, or will generally master new unknown horizons of sourdough bread.

If you decide the second: to improve professionally in the field of sourdough bread, then it is better to look towards the programmable HP with the possibility of changing the temperature. For very complex sourdough breads, Panasonic will require a lot of movement.

But if you find that Sourdough is too troublesome. That you are not carried away by the baking business so much that you spend a lot of time and energy on it, but you want homemade bread every day.If a couple of successful uncomplicated sourdough breads from the forum are enough for you, then Panasonic will be a wonderful choice of bread maker.
============

Now about the modes of Panasonic.
Panasonic is an automatic bread maker and the manufacturer does not provide for the user's interest in its filling.
Therefore, the instructions do provide limited information.
Next ... Panasonic kneads the dough according to its own secret program. His scapula movements are complex.
Also, depending on the heat in the room, the pre-preparation time of the food changes.
This is what you see in the instructions. At air temperatures above 28 degrees (these measurements are approximate, obtained in practice), the bread maker makes the longest preparation of products and reduces the maximum dough preparation time.

Here we made the Table of workouts by modes
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=104691.0

The lowest temperature mode in Panasonic, with an average of 28 degrees, is French. On average, the temperature is higher - an average of 30 degrees.
In accelerated modes, it is even higher - it can reach 37 degrees.
This is the temperature of the dough, not the air in the bucket.
Heating during mixing is indicated by asterisks in the instructions. It is available in almost all modes, except for Pelmeni.
Measurements were made with a contact Chinese thermometer. There may be deviations of a couple of degrees.

I haven't measured gluten and rye yet

Added Friday 08 Apr 2016 2:07 PM

Ps. Each author's recipe on the forum is akin to a picture. Obtained in practice and verified by practice. Through experiments, girls and boys found this or that solution and offer it to the rest on a plate.

Why this or that regime is pointless to ask. In practice, we have found the best solution for this or that recipe.

It is a foretaste pleasure in knowing everything about a future purchase.

Yes, somewhere like that))

Good afternoon, dear forum users. I want to buy HP and namely Panasonic. But in the store, the seller said that Panasonic began to make a plastic mixer drive. And I am now in doubt how this can affect the durability of HP. Can anyone suggest something about this?

I want to buy HP and namely Panasonic. But in the store, the seller said that Panasonic began to make a plastic mixer drive. And I am now in doubt how this can affect the durability of HP.

Be that as it may, Panasonic is the flagship line, and "nothing lasts forever under the moon."

[Elena72f]

Elena72f, and then what kind of bread maker did the seller advise?

But in the store, the seller said that Panasonic began to make a plastic mixer drive.

Show me the photo, I do not believe It is very similar to the next fantasy sellers.

[Elena72f]

Elena72f, and then what kind of bread maker did the seller advise?

Bork or Kenwood suggested. My mom's Bork and bread is nothing like Panasonic bread. Kenwood did not even consider it, because it is expensive and I think that Panasonic is the best HP.

Show me the photo, I do not believe It is very similar to the next fantasy sellers.

No photo. Since I haven't bought it yet. Today I called my sister, she has a Panasonic, she bought it 4 years ago, she says that it is a plastic drive. Until I asked her, she did not even bother and everything works without repairs yet.

[Elena72f]

Elena72f, take Panasonic and do not bother. I have a Panasonic SD255, also a plastic drive (if I understood you correctly), and the bread maker is already 9 years old. Everything works fine (t-t-t).

[Elena]

Elena Thank you. Yes, I guess I'm bothering in vain. It is my husband who doubts me and plunges me into doubts. Now I read reviews on different sites, everyone is happy with Panasonic. Now it remains only to decide on the model.

[Elena]

Elena Thank you. Yes, I guess I'm bothering in vain. It is my husband who doubts me and plunges me into doubts. Now I read reviews on different sites, everyone is happy with Panasonic. Now it remains only to decide on the model.

with any Panasonic drive unrivaled in terms of reliability.Look at the forum for reviews on the Bork and Kenwood models recommended to you, where people usually change a bucket a year, or even more often.
But nevertheless, at least the Kenwood 450 is also a modern bread maker - in terms of parameters, a worthy competitor to Panasonic, but not in terms of reliability, but in functionality.
It stands, however, like a plane

Panasonic's automatic programs have a long cycle, which is as close as possible to manual baking and takes into account the peculiarities of any domestic one !!! flour, which is better to wander a little longer - the bread will be tastier.
Baking works great for Panasonic. The crusts are crispy and baked, not the pale toadstools that many bread makers suffer from. By the way, the pale toadstool is not the worst thing. White crust and crunchiness is worse.
At Kenwood and Bork, automatic programs have shorter cycles, that is, they are sharpened for very strong flour. Every day bread will require the purchase of strong flour, anyhow you can't stick it in. And bread containing baked goods will also be tastier due to the short fermentation cycle. For pure wheat breads, the longer it ferments, the tastier, but here the cycles are short.
An exception at Kenwood, for example, is a single manual continuous mode to simulate a home test. Very good mode, but not for every day bread on the machine.
But there is also the possibility of manual programming, which is a big plus if you bake complex breads according to an individual recipe.
Only at Kenwood 450, the baking quality is akin to Panasonic in terms of reviews.
In Kenwood 450 people make great breads, but you have to choose either strong flour or use programming and combination of modes.
Panasonic is picky, eats everything that they won't give - they will buy it in the nearest store, a workhorse without claims for every day. The only drawback of Panasonic is the difficulty when working with sourdough bread with long fermentation. Dances with tambourines will be needed, since unfortunately Panasonic does not become programmable.
True, the most modern bourgeois model of Panasonic has stepped forward to facilitate sourdough baking.
Programs in Panasonic are all thought out, they will not be superfluous. You will definitely not be disappointed in the modern model.
At the same time, if you are limited in finances, you can buy an older and simpler model, basic bread can be made in any Panasonic model.

Good afternoon, dear members of the forum. I want to buy a bread maker, think about Panasonic (2501 or 2511). I can't decide on some parameters, can you help?
1. Does the 2511 have a "Low-yeast bread" mode, is there any advantage over the usual one?
2. There is a "Bread with filling" mode. What is it?
3. The mass of baked bread is different (750-1250 for 2501 and 600-1000 for 2511). There are 3 of us in the family, but only two people eat white bread, if you take 2501, probably the minimum weight is 750 grams. too much for two?
4. Do you knead pie dough, etc.? As I understand it, more dough weight will turn out in 2501? And approximately how many pies are obtained from the batch?
5. Which would you choose 2501 or 2511? At the price of 2511 a little bit cheaper.
Sorry if I'm asking something stupid, I'm a bore.

[Varvarka]

Varvarka, I have 2501. On point 3: there are 3 of us, we have an average size of bread (for 500 grams of flour) for about 3 days. But we eat a little bread. And by the way, I never bake pure white, always mixed with rye, whole grain, corn, buckwheat, oat flakes. On point 4: of course, I knead the dough for pies. By the number of pies - it depends on their size .... we have enough for the evening, and for three remains. I make dumplings for pizza.
And you're not a bore, you just want to make the right choice. True, when I was choosing, I just bought what I liked externally and according to the programs, and then I just realized what good thing I bought.

[Varvarka]

Varvarka, I also have 2501.
I love it!))))
Today in the morning I baked a white roll on whey and 400 g of flour.
After lunch Borodinsky for 250 rye and 150 wheat.
I knead with dumplings for 600 g of flour.
I have a family of ~ 3 adults.
Kneading the Universal dough from Anise to 555 g of flour, and in the refrigerator. At least pies, at least buns ...
Enough for at least 18 pies, depending on which solution you like.
2511 don't know.
But ours is very good!))))

Girls, thank you very much for the prompt and sensible answers! Probably we should take 2501, they described it so tasty

Girls, thank you very much for the prompt and sensible answers! Probably we should take 2501, they described it so tasty

2501 has fewer programs. In particular, there is no program for low-yeast bread - a very attractive program. Two people answered you - the owner of 2501, and the owners of 2511 are just silent for now.
These stoves are identical, the only difference is in the additional programs. I deeply doubt the difference in weight. The instructions for both models have the same maximum amount of flour - 600g, and the proportions in the recipes remain the same. The conclusion suggests itself: the information on the salesperson is incorrect. The volumes of buckets for 2501 and 2511 are the same.

You would have waited for a response from the owner of 2511, because if I were you, I would have bought a newer 2511.

[fffuntic]

fffunticYes, thank you very much for the volume addition. I will go and read the instructions carefully about low-yeast bread. I still have time, in September I plan to buy

[fffuntic]

fffunticYes, thank you very much for the volume addition. I'll go and read the instructions carefully about low-yeast bread. I still have time, in September I plan to buy

the more programs there are, the more different types of delicious bread you can cook on the machine in the oven.
The less yeast you use in your baked goods, while extending the fermentation time as in the low yeast bread program, the tastier your bread will be. The same principle works for starter cultures: put less - let it ferment longer for a better result. The low-yeast bread program is very, very interesting.
In older models, the same is achieved with the help of some tricks, and in newer models this program is already ready.

Compare instructions for Model 2511 and others 2501, 2500, 2512, and so on. The recipes are the same. The minimum-maximum flour is the same. But to be convincing, it would be good to hear the confirmation of the owners of the new model.

Added Thursday, 25 Aug 2016 11:44 PM

Ask for more in the topic
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=197192.0

there they will tell you in more detail

[fffuntic]

These stoves are identical, the only difference is in the additional programs. I deeply doubt the difference in weight. The instructions for both models have the same maximum amount of flour - 600g, and the proportions in the recipes remain the same. The conclusion suggests itself: the information on the salesperson is incorrect. The volumes of buckets for 2501 and 2511 are the same.

fffunticThank you again for writing about the same consumption. Now I looked at the expense in the instructions for 2501, 2502, 2511 - really the same. It is not clear where in the descriptions they write about the weight of the loaf M, L, XL and the maximum weight of the baking, if there is no such information in the instructions (although I may have already missed this in the night).

[recipes]

Now I looked at the expense in the instructions for 2501, 2502, 2511 - really the same. It is not clear where in the descriptions they write about the weight of the loaf M, L, XL and the maximum weight of the baking,

I didn't count it myself, but perhaps the difference in the weight of the finished bread depends on the additives loaded into the dispenser. IN recipes the maximum-minimum weight is given only for flour, and additives (raisins, cheese, sausage, etc.) are not counted by weight, more often they are given in spoons. Perhaps that is why the sellers calculated the maximum weight of the finished loaf in different ways, someone with raisins, and someone only according to the ingredients of the dough in the recipe.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, and with the low-yeast program in 2511, is it just taking less yeast, or does the time also increase? By the way, for a long time I have been putting less yeast than in the instructions, by about 40%. And nothing, everything rises remarkably.
I don’t answer anyone from 2511, if that

[Ekaterina2]

I bake in 2501 French with half the rate of yeast (or even less, half a teaspoon for 500 flour). Excellent result!
As well as Ekaterina2, I do not dissuade anyone.

[marinastom]

marinastom,
Just like me!))))
Natasha and you have learned
And what about 2511? Much more expensive?))))
What are the problems when choosing, I do not understand, I'm dull, probably ...

[Katerina]

Katerina, on a low-yeast program the time is increased by 4 hours 50 minutes total. I really like the program, I bake either in French, or on it, if necessary, a little faster. the result is almost the same. though I have a 2512 model.

I have both, and 2501 (for me) and 2511 (for my parents).
There are no differences in the volume of the bucket; as I understand it, the issue is that bread with filling can weigh more with an identical size.
The 2501 has a dispenser for additives, and since there is one, there is no such mode where it would be possible to throw an extra on a signal. ingredients, and in 2511 there is a bread with a filling mode, that is, despite the presence of a dispenser, there will still be a signal and you can report the same cheese or sausages, which are not recommended to be put into the dispenser.
The mode of low-yeast bread is simply longer, you can pour in half the yeast, for whom it is important.
If from scratch, then I would have bought myself 2511.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, and with the low-yeast program in 2511, is it just taking less yeast, or does the time also increase? By the way, for a long time I have been putting less yeast than in the instructions, by about 40%. And nothing, everything rises remarkably.
I don’t answer anyone from 2511, if that

the whole secret is that where you put in little yeast now, you would put even less in the low-yeast program. It is designed for the smallest amount of yeast in comparison with the regular and diabetic programs. I don’t know about French, it has the longest fermentation cycle. Perhaps in comparison with French and more yeast is needed.

As far as I understand, this program with a cycle a little longer than our diabetic and a little less French. But French bread has its own characteristics. There, baking is the strongest for the crustiness of the crust, and in low-yeast bread the crust is softer, the baking should be more delicate.

Most likely, this program can be called "extended diabetic", it seems to me.
Although based on the fact that the "diabetic" program without translation sounds like "whole grain", and the low-yeast program is conceived for ordinary flour, then there may be strong differences.

How much in practice bread on a low-yeast program differs from other types, the same diabetic and French, I would like to find out myself.
Do we, the owners of old models, lose much from the lack of a program?

How much in practice bread on a low-yeast program differs from other types, the same diabetic and French, I would like to find out myself.

Without pretending to be absolutely objective, I would say that bread baked with "low-yeast" and "French" tastes noticeably different, even if in both cases you put 0.5 tsp. yeast. I have 2510, baked in French "milk" almost according to the recipe with instructions (not counting the reduction in the amount of yeast, adding wheat bran for a change and replacing sugar with honey) and the same with low-yeast. The time difference has already been mentioned here (6 hours and 4:50). In the low-yeast mode, the bread rises less, and accordingly has a denser consistency. But there is also some specific difference in taste (I don’t know how to describe it, the most noticeable difference is that low-yeast is sweeter with a similar amount of honey). In my opinion, white bread tastes better in French. But the wheat-rye imitation of "Borodinsky" is very tasty on low-yeast, even with 20-25% rye flour. I didn't take a photo (everything breaks down too quickly))), but if you make according to the recipe of "my" "linden non-Borodinsky" (with fermented baked milk, dry red malt and chicory), then the bun turns out to be low and dense, for some reason darker than on typical 4 hour setting and tastes much better when using the same ingredients.

Going to buy a bread maker, choose between SD-ZB2512 and SD-2511.A question that has probably been asked more than once: the recipes on the forum that write to the SD-2501, SD-257 - will they fit these bread makers? Is it worth bothering and taking 2512?

[Big_Mike]

Big_Mike, Recipes will suit almost everything on the forum. Take SD-2511