Problem situations in the operation of dishwashers

Plastic dishes, as far as I managed to ask around from many, do not dry out, this is also a kind of norm, I do not think about this, but about condensation ...

[VeraCh]

VeraCh, plastic dishes do not dry out for anyone! When I went through the sideboards after an unauthorized moth attack, I dried all the containers in the oven at 30 degrees, otherwise the cleaning would have taken at least another day

There are problems with the BOSCH SMS50EO2EU dishwasher, white bloom on the dishes. Previously, we washed with separate products, but once again we bought the same Somat powder and a white bloom appeared. The filter gets dirty quickly, indelible in grease. If washed without powder at all, there is plaque, but not so strong. Wash with lemon the first time - everything is clean, the second is also not a very satisfactory sink. Already I set the salt to minimum and maximum, no difference. In general, the water from the well was usually very hard. The pills are better, but also plaque. In short, a lemon vinegar at least somehow.

In general, the water from the well was usually very hard.

salt was set to a minimum

salt to the maximum, but most likely it's too late to drink Borjomi, the ion exchanger is dead

salt to the maximum, but most likely it's too late to drink Borjomi, the ion exchanger is dead

yes, thank you for your kind words

Maximum salt and wait for the result several washes - sometimes the reaction is not immediate. By the way, is there any salt inside? Well, you can still switch to tablets or try pouring citric acid solution instead of rinse aid.

[Bijou]

Bijou, and how to make a citric acid solution? what proportions?

But I don't know for sure. I only know that people sometimes replace the rinse in this way simply for the sake of "not pouring the chemistry once more.")) Well, try empirically, let there be a teaspoon in a glass of water, or something ... first time. Or search the internet for other details.

Personally, with the same hard water and washing with tablets, I once flooded a whitish coating and frankly unwashed dishes. The situation was saved by freshly poured salt (before that, salt had not been there for a year or more). A lot of time has passed since then, salt is almost not consumed (I looked into the bunker), because the machine knows that I am washing with tablets, but for some reason the plaque mysteriously disappeared.

I wonder if the dishes don't turn sour after citric acid? ..

Well, you can still switch to pills

It is practically useless to do this with very hard water, the tablet is not a customizable system, it contains the average indicators of water hardness.

citric acid solution.

A rinse aid is simply a citric acid solution

[Alitka_s]

Alitka_s, Salt to maximum, adjust powder and rinse aid. If after a few washes the result does not change, look for a master who will undertake to change the resin in the ion-exchange filter, but not "native" from Bosch, but for example from a water filter.

Thank you. The fact is that I have already tried salt to the maximum. A tablet (half Somat) gives better results. The plaque remains only on the dishes, not on the machine itself. Otherwise, the metal surface of the machine is also whitish. Now I set the salt to the maximum, of course. Maybe buy another powder, but you're afraid to hit it again. This has already happened with Finish powder. How to look for a master, in general, my husband usually does everything. Maybe there is an instruction on how to change the resin ...

[Alitka_s]

Alitka_s, When washing with a tablet, the ion exchanger does not turn on. Do not save money for washing, use separate products, set the salt to the maximum, ideally, give the water to the laboratory to find out the level of hardness. I saw how to replace the resin on one of the PMM repairmen forums, I don't even remember.
PS: Many people put a water softening system on the cottage.

It is practically useless to do this with very hard water, the tablet is not a customizable system, it contains the average indicators of water hardness.

You tell me this ??? What are your speculations against my practice? Nu-nu.))

When washing with a tablet, the ion exchanger does not turn on.

So do not tell the machine that you are washing with a tablet - it will turn on.

[Bijou]

Bijou, To argue in this case is silly Ixbt to help.

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, well, don't argue.
Can you describe the essence in your own words?

[Crumbled andcracked 3-in-1 tablets are not suitable for use in this program.]

When the 3in1 function is activated (for me it is turned on with separate buttons), the supply of salt and rinse aid from the corresponding containers is automatically turned off ...
When using 3in1 products, the duration of the programs changes, for the correct dissolution of all components of 3in1 products ....
For new Bosches, 3in1 turns on automatically and, as a rule, also turns off the supply of salt and rinse aid. Otherwise, the meaning of the tablets is lost if both the tablet and the funds from the containers are used.
The fact that the salt, which is used to regenerate the ion exchanger, is not and cannot be in the tablets, everyone seems to already know.
(Approximate composition of dishwasher tablets 🔗
And in order to use pills and not contain the exchanger in a state clogged with calcium (what if it still comes in handy?), You just need to set the hardness to zero.
Example from the instruction:
PROGRAM 3 in 1 (3 in 1)
The dishwasher has a special 3-in-1 program that does not require
use neither regeneration salt nor rinse aid.
The only detergent that should be used is a dishwasher tablet
3 in 1 machines.
Attention:
In the case of other programs, you can also use 3 in 1 tablets, however, you must
fill the salt containers and the rinse aid dispenser, as well as
adjust the water hardness and rinse level. Use is not recommended
3 in 1 tablets for the Short and Soak programs, due to their short
duration, which leads to the impossibility of complete dissolution of the detergent; cm.
See program table on next page.
Attention:
Do not use tablets larger than the container. Crumbled and
cracked 3-in-1 tablets are not suitable for use in this program.
Keep detergents out of the reach of children.
The detergent should be inserted just before the start of the program.
🔗

Eh, and I do not have a new Bosch 3 in1, and I do not tell the car what my tablets are. A tablet washes well.

For new Bosches, 3in1 turns on automatically and, as a rule, also turns off the salt and rinse aid supply. Otherwise, the meaning of the tablets is lost if both the tablet and the funds from the containers are used.

Well, you are boasting that you have read ixbt.

A rinse aid is simply a citric acid solution

Who said?

Eh, and I do not have a new Bosch 3 in1, and I do not tell the car what my tablets are. A tablet washes well.

Uh-huh, Bosch from the very beginning went on about the show-off, complicating the lives of users. But if you have rinse aid and salt filled in, then I advise you to lower the settings to the minimum (if the water is not hard in the sense of artesian).

[Bijou]

Bijou, The composition of various brand name rinses may differ, but usually they include: ethanol, natural acid (lactic, citric); tensides - substances that reduce the surface tension of water and create a protective film on the surface of dishes; as well as fatty alcohols, sugar surfactants and water. 🔗

as if ixbt read.

Not only

My Bosch is relatively new, it has been in operation for a year, there is no 3-in-1 function (that is, there is no separate button), the tablet is put in the same compartment as the powder ... the question is: how does the machine determine that I put a tablet, and not a powder ? Or do I have to manually turn off the salt and rinse aid settings every time I use a tablet?

The composition of various branded rinses may differ, but usually they include: ethanol, natural acid (lactic, citric); tensides - substances that reduce the surface tension of water and create a protective film on the surface of dishes; as well as fatty alcohols, sugar surfactants and water.

Okay, even though some German does not count for me, there is generally nothing except surfactants. But here I open the list of promoted brands:

Rinse aid for dishwashers FINISH 800 ML.
Composition: 5% or more, but less than 15% nonionic surfactants, less than 5% polycarboxylates, preservatives.

Frosch dishwasher rinse aid
0.75 l. Fruit acid
Composition: 5-15% non-ionic surfactants. Other components: benzisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone.

And where is yours here

A rinse aid is simply a citric acid solution

Mmm? ))) So no need to mislead people ... let's put it mildly.

Not only

Then why is this nonsense about automatic detection Bochemies having a pill?

I have now specially downloaded the instructions for the modern top-end Teshke - nothing has changed there. Well, they would at least put a new tray under the tablets, separate from the powder feeder, then one could still assume this. But no, everything is the same, ten years ago ...

Then where does this nonsense about the automatic detection of the presence of a pill by Bosch?

Automatic "3 in 1" - (Automatic recognition of the type of detergent) - the washing result does not depend on the type of detergent
🔗product-catalog / dishwashers / freestanding-dishwashers / 60-cm-wide / SMS40L02EN.html # tab2
Frosch dishwasher rinse aid
0.75 l. Fruit acid
Composition: 5-15% non-ionic surfactants. Other components: benzisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone.
Surfactant 5% right? Benzisothiazolinone preservatives 🔗
🔗 less than 1%
The rest is Fruit acid!
I am not misleading anyone, I am not pursuing such a goal.
Have you decided to catch me?

Automatic "3 in 1" - (Automatic recognition of the type of detergent) - the washing result does not depend on the type of detergent

I decided that if a person asserts something so categorically, then he knows what he is talking about. And not just repeating the manufacturer's advertising slogans. There is no automatic pill detection there and never has been. On the trunk, it has been chewed and chewed seven years ago, with periodic reminders to beginners. That is why I was surprised that you do not know that Bosch machines determine the presence of a tablet by the absence of a rinse aid (and maybe, by setting it to zero, I will not argue here, I don’t remember exactly).

Sorry, I won't correct you anymore. Until.

[about]

The rest is Fruit acid!

Any ingredient must be listed in the composition. Especially if there is a lot of it. AcidaboutI have never come across you in the composition of several rinses, the rinse is not sour, but bitter. Only surfactants are indicated. Judging by how many people complain about slippery dishes and water foaming in them under the tap, I'm not the only one who thinks so. But I gave up using the rinse a long time ago, about five years ago ...

[Bijou]

Bijou, I confess, I screwed up with bosh. As for the rinses, they are different, and the taste and color, and the quality of washing, they respectively, are different.

Ksyusha, I also have Boshik, two years already. When I switch from powder to tablets, I take out the instructions and manually change the settings. Somehow I didn’t like it, it’s not difficult, rather haemorrhoid, remember how and what, read, delve into ... In general, I use powder. I specially bought a machine with the function of rinsing baby bottles. I always turn it on, I hope to eat less chemistry, it is not mustard, because it washes dishes

[Scops owl]

Scops owl, Laris, so you need to set the rinse to zero? Now I only use pills, I bought them on occasion.

I was also interested in this, when you switch from powder to tablets, do you need to transfer the rinse to zero or not in order to save money? SOMEONE CAN EXPLAIN THIS. In my instructions it is simply written that we press the "pill" button, there is one separately. And about the fact that you need to rearrange the rinse nothing is written.

SOMEONE CAN EXPLAIN THIS. In my instructions it is simply written that we press the "pill" button, there is one separately. And about the fact that you need to rearrange the rinse nothing is written.

Now, if there is a separate button, then no problem at all!))
Press it and that's it, the car includes a slightly different washing algorithm. Ideally, it should even let water past the ion exchanger so as not to soften it again, but no one really knows if all machines can do this (Boshi is definitely not all).

Bosch turned on the fool - they say, oh, we don't need buttons, our cars will automatically recognize! But in fact, the logic is simple - if the owner washes with a tablet, then he does not pour rinse aid (it is stated in the tablet). No rinse aid - there is a tablet. And vice versa.)) But in general, the programs are not so different - with a pill or powder. It's just that the last rinse lasts a little longer, and the water is heated a little higher. Everything so that the dishes accumulate more heat and dry better, since there are no extra surfactants from the rinse aid on it. Well, the main wash can be a few minutes longer, so that the tablet has more time to dissolve.

But if the owner uses both a pill and a rinse aid, then it's okay, it'll dry better.))

Salt is another matter - if the water is rather soft, then the softener from the tablet is, in general, quite enough, and then the machine also softens with salt. If there are no problems and there is no need to save salt, then you can leave it that way. And if there is a lot of capricious glass, which can corrode from softening, then this is unnecessary. Therefore, you need to manually lower the regeneration level (set the hardness level by several steps less).

In short, all these fears about regimes, pills and regeneration, in general, are not worth a damn. And the settings by each user are selected empirically, which ones suit him.

What can replace the rinse aid?

The tablet is an ersatz-fast food for PMM, it contains phosphates that cause the precipitation of hardness salts.
The principle of operation of the ion exchanger
Quote:
Let me explain the essence of the ion exchange filter. It contains a special resin, which, when water passes through it, takes calcium and magnesium ions, and gives up sodium ions. But the supply of sodium ions is naturally not unlimited and needs to be replenished. To do this, at a certain point in the program, a saturated salt solution is launched into the filter. It is due to the fact that the solution is saturated that sodium ions displace calcium and magnesium ions, thus the resin is regenerated. If you use edible salt, which itself already contains calcium and magnesium salts, regeneration is ineffective or does not occur at all. If you add some other chemically active substances instead of salt, they combine irrevocably with the resin, that is, spoil it and make it unusable for further use. For example, iodized salt contains iodine impurities that spoil some of the ion exchange resin. Of course, they won't spoil much with one filling, but if you fill it up regularly, you can spoil all the resin. If you add any detergent, or, as some people take and sprinkle Kalgon instead of salt, it spoils all the resin at once, at a time. There is enough.
If edible salt was poured, it is not scary. Set the maximum dosage and use it. When it indicates it's time to add salt, put the dosage back in place and add the correct salt.
From here 🔗

And what kind of salt is possible, coarse, fine? I am sitting in the village without a car, I ran out of salt in the typewriter, while my husband brings it ... I won’t ruin the typewriter in a week?

[On my Bosch machine, at setting 3, the ion exchanger regenerates on average every 6th wash, and at setting 4, every 4th, at 5 every 3rd, at 6 every 2nd, at 7 every.]

To do this, at a certain point in the program, a saturated salt solution is launched into the filter.

So Alex and Che are saying the same thing. They say that regeneration occurs at a certain moment of washing. By default, it looks like it happens every wash. And one corrosive clever man did his own independent research. And I got a completely different conclusion:

Don't expect immediate results from switching the hardness setting from 3 to 4. On my Bosch machine, at setting 3, the ion exchanger regenerates on average every 6th wash, and at setting 4, every 4th, at 5 every 3rd, at 6 every 2nd, at 7 every. That is, to ensure you notice the result, you need to carry out three more washes. If there is a suspicion of insufficient water softening, it is easier to turn on setting 7 immediately, then regeneration will occur every wash. Make a couple of washes with this setting to restore the ion exchanger, and then gradually decrease the setting, making several washes at each setting according to the above figures. As soon as in one of the sinks, at some setting, a bad result was noticed, associated precisely with the hardness of the water, then you need to return to the higher setting and stop there.

I am sitting in the village without a car, I ran out of salt in the typewriter, while my husband brings me ... I won't ruin the typewriter in a week?

Of course no. In general, the resin is equally divided, which of the ions sits on its tail - that is sodium, that calcium. Neither one nor the other does not lead to its death.)) And completely different substances lead, and even then it is not always exactly to death - so, for example, iron, once grasping the resin, does not voluntarily leave it and the cell remains occupied forever, reducing the resource of the resin (exchange capacity).

In industrial installations, the resin is cleaned from iron, but not in our case. That is, with ferrous water, the actual ion exchange differs from the calculated one and changes over time up to the complete blocking of ion exchange.

I won't ruin the car in a week?

Oh, here ... I got stuck on the tar. And there is also a heater. And now he doesn't like hard water at all. Therefore, if the water is really very hard (the kettle has to be washed from the scale layer at least once every few days), then I advise you to use tablets at this time of forced work without salt, not separate products. Well, or at least pour more powder.

And at the end of the adventure, to calm down, you can rinse the car with citric acid, poured into the powder tray.

There is also an opinion about the operation algorithm of the ion exchanger, but IMHO is not entirely correct
Andrei:
The water in the dishwasher is first drawn into the container, then by gravity through a special calibrated hole flows through the ion exchanger into the machine sump tank. There is no other way for water. Thus, all the water entering the dishwasher passes through the ion exchanger. The calibrated hole guarantees a certain rate of passage of water through the exchanger. You need to remember that the water in the dishwasher does not draw in the same way as in the washing machine. Water under pressure from the water supply system is drawn into a special measuring container, usually flat in the form of the left side of the dishwasher. But from there, under its own weight, it falls into the ion exchanger and the tank of the machine. Then the circulation pump turns on and drives the water through the flow heater. If it is covered with limescale, it means a drop to the ion exchanger. I met this only a couple of times and always due to pouring some kind of washing powder into the salt tank. If the ion exchanger becomes clogged with calcium at the minimum water hardness, this will not affect the quality of the wash. With soft water, an ion exchanger is not needed. But I have not met such water - even dishwashers on river vessels (I repaired such ones) also require cleaning from hardness salts. That is, I have not seen water with zero hardness.
below:
Water enters through the ion exchanger always at the same rate always. Setting the water hardness affects the treatment of the ion exchanger with the regeneration solution.If the maximum hardness is set, then regeneration is carried out every wash. If the hardness is set to medium, then the regeneration is carried out after 3 washes, that is, every fourth. That is, the machine washes three times and does not regenerate; at the fourth wash, at the end of the wash cycle, regeneration occurs.
Taken from here 🔗

There is no other way for water. Thus, all the water entering the dishwasher passes through the ion exchanger.

My car has a bypass.

[m0use]

m0use Ksyusha, I don’t remember what I put up there. I need to look at the instructions, but I don’t remember where it is, I have to look. And my clapboard is all piled up = we sheathe the loggia. Read everything written there. I think I (I don't remember)

[m0use]

m0use Ksyusha, today found the instruction, read it and she herself had questions: girl-th: It says: << When using a combined singing agent with a special salt content, in general, you can refuse to add additional salt if the water hardness does not exceed 21 * dH if a special salt is required above. >>. I manually turned off the rinse aid indicator, set it to 0, but there are options with the water softening setting. Either set it to 0 using 3in1 tablets, if the water is soft or leave the old setting (I have n: 07 because the water is very hard) But then the question arises - the machine will take less salt, since the tablet also contains salt and will have to refill less often ?

Ksyusha also subtracted that the tablets work up to a certain degree of water hardness 21, if it is necessary to add the rinse aid as well as salt. I want to try it without rinse at all when it's over. My relatives wash without him, so that they don't have extra chemistry. I don't know how true this is, maybe it doesn't rinse off the dishes very well?

Here, Laris, and this phrase alarmed me. It turns out that each time you need to manually change the settings. I now wash my tablets all the time, then 3 in 1, then 5 in 1 (what's the difference) decided to leave both salt and rinse on one. Maybe it's true, turn off everything .... And our water is very soft, it is recommended to set 1 or 2.

Ksyusha, it's great when the water is soft. You can probably set it to zero at all. The tablets contain both salt and rinse aid. I can't do that with my super tough. You can call the Bosch Support Center. I somehow called there when
chose the machine. So I think we can call to clarify

[Scops owl]

Scops owl, There is no salt in the tablets, there are phosphates that contribute to the precipitation of hardness salts in the form of flakes, if the water hardness exceeds 21 * dH
pills are generally contraindicated!

Sash, is it better not to turn off the salt? I have 1, despite the pill ...

[m0use]

m0use, Ksyusha, it is better not to turn it off, I also have it set to a minimum.

Good day! We bought PMM, installed it. I had never used a car before. today I checked the water hardness with a test, it turned out 19 dH. I set it to 5. Can I use eco pills like Frosch or Bio-Mio? Or is it still preferable to use separate types of detergent? Thanks in advance for your answers.

[amurchik]

amurchik, nevertheless, separate types of detergent are preferable
Pills are fast food

over a year of operation, PMM noticed that the result from the tablets is much better than the separate products, regardless of the brand. True, there is always salt and rinse aid. I tried to increase the salt to the maximum + powder, it is still worse than salt to the average (factory) value + tablets. With regular washing with powder, the pots are often not washed (although I only use long programs. Incorrectly adjusting? Bosch SPV 58M50

for a year of operation, PMM noticed that the result from the tablets is much better than the separate products, regardless of the brand.

Likewise.)) Only I have been watching this picture for seven years, and not a year. In recent years, the tablets have been very budgetary - re-branded by hyper Lenta, five rubles per piece, or even cheaper.

I liked them so much that I somehow bought a similar ribbon powder. I don’t remember such horror as a sink at all, even Somat was better at washing.))