Furniture for kitchen

In fact, they are hung up so that it is more convenient to stand in the work area and clean them up using machines. All sorts of robotic vacuum cleaners, scrubber.

... Vileda is who

This is a very handy thing for cleaning the floor. There are several models, each with its own users and defenders). We have a topic on the forum.

[renard]

In fact, they are hung up to make it more convenient

And I adjust to fit my realities. Can?
You write that it is fashionable, so I figure out how to stay in a trend and not give up a comfortable base.
renard, you are so serious and emotional about the topic, as if you are defending diploma your own author's project.

I, with similar zeal, fought only with the "theory of domination", but there the question was principled and conceptual.

You write that it is fashionable, so I figure out how to stay in a trend and not give up a comfortable base.

not ... paint the base black - it's like drawing stockings on your legs, as women did in the post-war years.
Hanging up - so in an adult way, for real.

renard, you are so serious and emotional about the topic, as if you are defending your diploma for your author's project.

I have such a hobby. Draw furniture arrangements. Kitchens and bathrooms are a favorite entertainment. And with an injured leg, you don't jump far from home, so I play the fool at the computer for now.

not ... paint the base black - it's like drawing stockings on your legs, as women did in the post-war years.

Then there remains the VIP option - the mirror one.
So they are under my tree, or rather a specialist took wooden platbands for facing the "muzzles" of the plinths (the tabletop is also wooden, made of beech).

I have such a hobby.

It is clear, it is felt that this is dear and close to you.

And with an injured leg you don't jump far from home,

Recover!

[Crown]

Crown, have a nice one you too. And health to all.

Useful picture:

Wiring diagram of a narrow oven. It follows from it that the oven will stand almost close to the wall, there will be no place behind the oven for a hose. The place for the hose can be below the oven, behind the drawer under the baking sheets. That is, at the level of the outlet of the drain hose from the washing machine behind this box, it is quite possible to lay a hose ... But it is more difficult to lay the hose behind the PMM. because it also stands up very close to the wall, and the notch at the bottom of the machine is usually no higher than 9 cm.

I don’t know, maybe it’s better to try to shove the PMM Blackouts between the refrigerator and the sink.
It will turn out to be crap, inconvenient for loading PMM, but on the other hand, the drain hose from the machine can really be laid behind the furniture and nothing has been gouged.

I'm wondering why we are replacing the standard stove with a hob and built-in oven? This option is convenient when we carry it in different directions, but raise the oven.
And so mv we place the oven under the hob, imitating the stove

From the door there is a refrigerator, a dishwasher, a cupboard with a sink (1050 mm), a washing machine, an oven and a bottle-holder (nothing else comes in). But the drawer is not under the oven, but above it. This toolbox will be. In the second upper drawer there is a dish drainer, and in the fourth upper drawer an extractor hood.
The facades are glossy white, but with a countertop in thought, most likely there will be a stone.

It wasn't by chance that the managers in the salon thought?
The minimum changes that can be proposed, if the size of the room allows (there are no exact dimensions).
From the door:
Refrigerator + side wall + dishwasher + spacer of minimum thickness, if the lower fronts are without handles, or with a thickness equal to the height of the selected furniture handle plus a few millimeters + sink 60.
from corner to window:
sink 1020-1050 + bottle holder 200 + oven with cooking 600 + gap 10 + washing machine 600.
The drawer is under the oven in a traditional place, not under the boil.
The drain hose from the washing machine goes behind this drawer and bottle holder.
I already drew this picture:

The final length of the sink and the spacer at the corner is determined based on how much the PMM, slightly opened to dry, protrudes relative to the sink.
Why 1050 managers could write, I guess roughly. This is so that they are not cursed when it is impossible to open the sink door 90 degrees due to the machine, which is slightly open to dry. And then I agree that if the PMM stands at an angle to the sink, then it is necessary that the spacer from the corner should be larger at the underframe under the sink. 1050 with a facade of 40 - this will be with a large margin. It's a mystery why they didn't draw the same spacer between the dishwasher and the sink. Have you planned a fully built-in washing machine?
Or was it suggested to shove an ordinary narrow typewriter into the table? And why without gaps then and why is the table the same width as the washing machine?

As for the asymmetrical cooking insert, it is better to try on the place, when the furniture will stand, at what distance from the sink it will be more convenient ...
Ergonomists express different points of view on this topic and call different numbers.
The minimum that I met in the recommendations for kitchen planning is 50 cm from sink to cooking. It's almost like that now. 55 cm between cooking and sink. To be honest, a little bit not enough, from time to time I experience inconvenience when I cut something on this surface. Another 5 centimeters - and I would be completely satisfied.

Perhaps, in order not to spoil the kitchen with asymmetry, it makes sense to listen to the proposal put forward by Bijou. Dominos do not cut across, but along the tabletop.
Best of all is in-place modeling.

I'm wondering why we are replacing the standard stove with a hob and built-in oven?

Because every centimeter counts (though, unfortunately, these centimeters are given approximately). If you find a slab 45 cm wide, not 50 or 60 cm - write.
If you find a slab 30 cm wide, write all the more.

And also because the owners may one day hesitate to pick out vermicelli, crumbs, etc., which are successfully poured between the freestanding stove and furniture. Or maybe they already hesitated, so the very first pictures that Blackout posted were with a built-in oven and cooking and she wrote about what they wanted to build in an oven and cooking.

Girls, I read this topic like a novel. Well, very exciting. Maybe you can help me design the kitchen? Very interesting and unusual (for me, at least). With a Russian stove)) the stove is already there. But the rest must be thought. I've been thinking for several months now, but I believe that the collective intelligence can help make the best option. Tomorrow I will write the dimensions and my variant of the arrangement of the cabinets. Hope you can help))

[But the drawer is not under the oven, but above it. This toolbox will be.]

And I found great tables for the Blackouts.
I searched by the words: "semi-oval wall dining table".
🔗
Such, specifically in their situation, may be even better than the oval one that I drew in my last pictures.
The table can be moved directly to the wall with a window sill.
🔗

🔗


Although the oval one-legged for such a small kitchen is the same thing. It fits less on a rounded table, but you can sit anywhere at the table, nowhere does the leg of a stool or chair interfere. And if there is a habit of covering the table with tablecloths or oilcloths, then the "cover" at the corners does not wipe off.

I have a similar table in my small kitchen. Just size 60x100. Sliding, with an insert of 30 or 40 cm (I do not remember exactly the size of the insert). For two - fine. Unfolded for three - cramped, but really fit. And if you expand it, then 4 is cramped, but tolerable. 6 is not good. True, there were no ready-made oval 60x100 on sale before, as now - I don't know. We ordered custom sizes. Some Murom furniture factory made a table for us. They also had a wonderful system of payments for non-standard. If you order a table larger than their standard size, you pay extra.If less - then you do not pay extra for non-standard anything.
And before the oval one-legged, we had a rectangular four-legged in the same kitchen. It was more roomy, but it was inconvenient with it in the small kitchen (7.3 sq. M.). Therefore, they replaced it with a completely toy one.

From the door there is a refrigerator, a dishwasher, a cabinet with a sink (1050 mm), a washing machine, an oven and a bottle-holder (nothing else will come in). But the drawer is not under the oven, but above it. This toolbox will be. In the second upper drawer there is a dish drainer, and in the fourth upper drawer there is a hood.

Here's another little thing. Drawer under the hob. In it, the devices will warm up. When there is just a table with large drawers under the cooking, it is not very felt. And when the drawer is shallow under cooking, it can be inconvenient.
And a purely aesthetic moment - if you swap the oven and the drawer under the trays, the bottom of the oven door will never be flush with the bottom of the kitchen facades, the door will be higher. Look at tables with built-in ovens at exhibitions or in salons, you will understand why. Or look at the drawing:

I once found a video on YouTube with a review of a kitchen in which there is just such a drawer under cooking.
The uncle, the owner of the kitchen, swore at the drawer (though he swore there about quite correct things, for example, the presence of PMM in the kitchen and drying in the upper shelf, so not everything should be taken into account). Here is a vidos, from 10:32 from the beginning of the video - about this box.
The guy is very boring and pedantic, he also confused the name of the mechanism "push that open" and called it "push-up", in the comments people were laughing at him "you need to marry a master", it is better to look at a speed of 1.5 or even 1.75. In the same video, he says that the pressure mechanisms in the lower cabinets work when not necessary, so it is better not to put any type-ons and push-to-opens in the bottom row. If parents are asked to put such a mechanism on the sink door, it is better to refuse.





Well, and the last piece of advice.
The most correct thing to do here is not to interfere with the repair of your parents if they do not listen to your admonitions. Rejoice if you have the opportunity to dodge the layout of this kitchen. Flush off before it's too late.
If parents like this plan with a washing machine in the middle of the kitchen set, let them put the washing machine the way they like.
Such a kitchen will not work out perfectly anyway, something will be bad. What you were offered in the forum is also not perfect. The parents planned the kitchen according to their ideas of convenience.
There are pluses in their layout. In their version, a large distance between the sink and the stove is 75-80 cm, or even more, depending on how rotten the sink is inserted (the closer to the corner, the greater the distance between cooking and sink, but the sink is more inconvenient to use). In the versions that I suggested, it is quite ergonomic, not less than 50 cm, but less than they planned for themselves.
In the version with a washing machine in the middle of the kitchen, it is very simple to connect the washing machine to the sewer. In the proposed options with a washing machine at the end of the kitchen by the window, it is more difficult to stick the machine into the sewer. Although not Newton's binomial. Plumbers say the hose can be laid on the floor. There is a place behind the base and legs of the oven, at the bottom behind the PMM there should also be a place.
In their version, it is more convenient to load and unload laundry from the washing machine (with drying the washing machine after washing, however, everything is bad, both with a tray for powder, and with the ability to put a bigger machine, etc., etc., and in general, aesthetics rest ).
And in their version, a standard oven. And the choice of ovens with a width of 45 is very small. And a cabinet for 45 ovens is a non-standard. Does not exist in factory versions. However, they also started a non-standard cabinet for the oven. There are no oven cabinets with a box under the trays on top. Because there should be a heat sink from the bottom of the cooking, and also because the ovens are arranged in such a way that the oven door will not be flush with the bottom of the kitchen facades, and also because the filling of the box will heat up from the bottom from the oven, and from above - from cooking, if cooking above the oven ...
Let them do everything in their own way, over time, they may not like it, remake or rearrange the furniture.The kitchen won't get any worse than it is.
The main thing is that if you do not interfere, you will not be to blame for all kitchen jambs.

Variant.

Everything is very bad with the seats, the refrigerator is not ergonomic, but not an iceberg at the entrance, with a microwave not on the refrigerator, with the location of the PMM, as required by the manufacturers, and with one table with drawers in the working area. A bonus is a small TV set on the wall of the bathroom.

Variant.

Cons - washing machine at the entrance without the ability to put a full-size machine. The refrigerator is not at hand. The slab is close to the corner (but in the parents' version it is also close to the corner). Access to the oven is only from one side (but in the version of the parents it is not better). With the support of the countertop above the washer, the same problems as when installing the PMM at the end of the kitchen. Seats 2.
But then ... The cold is not at the entrance. And it does not stick out with its railing Liebcher handles right at the priests of the person standing at the sink. From the sink to both sides about a meter of work surfaces. There are boxes next to the PMM. There is a TV set. All devices are in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.
The table can be spread out and then three people can fit.

Variant.

the second is more convenient. There is a working table 100 You can put PM 60, more distance CM-table

then three will fit.

need 6

I tell the news from the fields. I present a new plan, changes have appeared: the oven can be removed (I have no strength to resist), the refrigerator can be moved towards the window, provided that there is a tall bottle holder between the battery and the refrigerator. The washing machine can be turned with a hatch to the passage, covering the side with a false panel. And a sink can be with one bowl, but always with a wing.
In the demo version of the planner, I tried to draw a diagram, but it turned out to be another masterpiece
From the door there is a washing machine, a cupboard with drawers, a sink, a dishwasher, a refrigerator (there is a microwave oven on it) and a cupboard with a bottle holder.
I am not happy with the previous project, but I am not very happy either.

And I found great tables for the Blackouts.

I liked the tables.

Blackout, then advice, would you like? Leave everything in its place, ask your parents to plan for themselves. Young enough can.

Undoubtedly they can, but imagine how they will be offended. Therefore, I listen to the next changes, sockets and a hood are made for the equipment according to the first plan. It was decided to put tiles on the apron from door to window, regardless of whether there is a refrigerator or a lower module.

need 6

6 will not fit there in the version that her parents want. Is that on each other's heads, the second layer.
Or elbow to elbow, so that it is no longer possible to move your arms.

I present a new plan

Well, the same fuck. Better as they asked - the washer underfoot in the work area than the stove almost right next to the sink. You cannot leave your elbow over a hot stove, a saucepan or a frying pan.

the second is more convenient. There is a working table 100 You can put PM 60, more distance CM-table

You did not understand. This is not table 100. This is from the sink to the stove - a working surface about 100 cm wide. And under it is PMM 45 + table 40 + a piece of table with an oven 15 cm.
They will put the domino hob on just 2 burners. And it has a width of 30 cm.Accordingly, if it is cut over the oven with a width of 60, then 15 cm is obtained on the sides of the panel.
In addition, according to the terms of the problem, PMM 45 is already available. We dance based on what is.

It was decided to put tiles on the apron from door to window, regardless of whether there is a refrigerator or a lower module.

Maybe a wall with a doorway is all tiled, up to the ceiling?

I liked the tables.

Parents or you?

Quote: Blackout from Today at 4:39 pm I liked the tables. Parents or you?

Parents liked it.
Me too

Quote: Blackout from Today at 4:39 PM

Well, the same fuck.

I totally agree.

Maybe a wall with a doorway is all tiled, up to the ceiling?

Do you think it stands up to the ceiling?

Do you think it stands up to the ceiling?

In general, putting the tiles so that they go behind the refrigerator is your right idea.
First, rearrangements can be made later. Secondly, it just turns out ugly when the tile ends exactly along the edge of the furniture, and there is a refrigerator next to it (the input that a refrigerator can be in a warm corner appeared only now, before that we were writing projects with a refrigerator at the door).
Well, today I also offered a couple of options with a refrigerator in the place where it is now ...

In my kitchen, I made a mistake with the tiles behind the refrigerator, ordering tiles exactly according to the furniture, then I changed it myself. Moreover, a station wagon worker who was doing the repairs said to me: "let's make an apron 10-15 centimeters longer so that it goes behind the refrigerator, it will be ugly, as you want it, exactly on the furniture." And I insisted on my own. We put the furniture ... Freestanding refrigerator next to this furniture. And it turned out that even if the refrigerator is placed very close to the furniture, a narrow strip of wallpaper is still visible behind the refrigerator. Simply because we never look directly at the refrigerator, and because the refrigerator does not sit right up against the wall. And so I didn’t like this little bit of wallpaper, visible between the apron and the refrigerator, that I had to glue the tiles myself in this place so that I could go a little behind the refrigerator. I had already let the worker go and settled with him. And how to call him for such a trifle ...
And in adult projects, where kitchens are not toy, when the top row is not planned, tiles to the ceiling are beautifully obtained. I'll throw a picture for you. Well, you don't need to puzzle how to decorate the end of the tile. True, you have an ambush there that there is an opening to the kitchen without a door. Sticking to the ceiling will save you from one puzzle, and will lead to the second - how to close the ends of the tiles around the doorway.

how to close the ends of the tiles around the doorway.

the ends of the tile are perfectly closed with a special narrow metal profile (it seems to be put on the end of the tile). And about the refrigerator at the entrance - if it is not 2 meters high, then it does not look such a block. I have 8m2 in the kitchen and it's worth it. Only the kitchen is not angular and I stand between the sink and the refrigerator (about 45cm) when I wash the dishes. 5 years ago, when ordering a kitchen, I really wanted a corner one. Fortunately, I realized in time that I won’t win anything, but only lose my place. And the length of my kitchen is 2.65 by 1.7 to the door, which is quite comparable to the proposed option. And the sink can be with a wing, but small. I have a 63cm sink, and the bowl itself is 45, the rest is on a small wing. After all, there will be a PM, so such a shell is enough, IMHO

but can you imagine how offended

strange .. I would be glad to draw my own vision of the kitchen. The husband is his own.
One head is good, but two / three beams

6 won't fit there

yes I know .. but nada

working surface

what's the difference? surface so surface.

in general, all in tiles, to the ceiling?

ninada

And the length of my kitchen is 2.65 by 1.7 to the door, which is quite comparable to the proposed option.

In a small kitchen, 5 centimeters can greatly affect the arrangement of furniture.
First, in the given dimensions, not 2.65, but 2.6. secondly, the battery is eating 10 cm from this length.
Furniture and appliances are not placed close to the batteries. Thus, 12 centimeters are lost due to the battery, and it is not yet known how much the finish will eat. I don't know how much Blackout counts. And I draw a kitchen with a length of 2.45, leaving 5 cm of stock for all sorts of finishes, installations, gaps, spacers, which is negligible.
I figured out a linear kitchen for the Blackouts, but I didn't even draw. Because with a linear kitchen, the sink turns out to be 80. And there dad wants a sink with a width of 79 cm, and there is no tie-in scheme. It is not known whether it will be possible to embed the sink so that the baseboard of the countertop fits on the side of the sink.
Plus, they don't want to remove a non-built washing machine from the kitchen. And with it in the linear kitchen drawers do not work.

Let's count ...
80 sink (dad, if his sink cannot be inserted into his sink, he remains without a dream come true, or the counter on the side remains without a baseboard) + 45 PMM + 60 oven with cooking (it turns out that next to PMM it is impossible, but everyone spits on the recommendations of manufacturers) + 60 washer + 10 battery - = 255.
Everything fit, but the kitchen came out without a table with drawers, a dishwasher next to the oven, and the underframe under the sink is such that Daddy's sink, along with the baseboard of the countertop, may not fit.

what's the difference? surface so surface.

We're talking about this picture, right? You said that if a working surface of 100 cm is obtained between washing and cooking, then you can put PMM 60.

You can put it ... But then, instead of a table with boxes, you get a not very necessary cargo. Or another re-arrangement.

[renard]

renard, I wrote COMPARATIVE, not IDENTICAL! A sink with a wing can be smaller (like mine), as far as I understood, the main requirement is that the wing WAS. The skirting board is optional, now it is believed that it is better without it. You can lay the tabletop above the battery, the lower cabinet, of course, will be shorter by these 10 cm. Although, maybe the battery can be moved under the window. In short, we need clear dimensions down to a millimeter, including the dimensions of the refrigerator, they are quite different in width and depth.

unnecessary cargo

I am not so advanced in terms of furniture. I am more comfortable in Russian.
The question is removed, since the PMM is already available and it is not 60 cm.

[renard]

maybe try this? 15cm from the window a pencil case (above the table top) under it is a blind insert. Then the column - at the top is an oven 45cm, at the bottom is a dishwasher 45cm, then a cabinet 75-80cm with drawers, on top is a cooker. Then 60 washer and 65 washer with a small wing. There are very different washing depths, you can choose one that you can hang the facade too. And the refrigerator at the entrance to the kitchen is not high and will not block the view. The table is against the opposite wall. renard, please draw this option, if not difficult

I'm more comfortable in Russian.

Bottle holder.

A sink with a wing can be smaller (like mine), as far as I understood, the main requirement is that the wing WAS.

No, no ... There dad has a Wishlist - a sink with two bowls and a wing. The width of the sink, which he dreams of, is known - 79 cm. I'm not sure that such a sink, even if cut into the very edge, right next to the right side wall of the underframe, will fit into the underframe so that there is still room for the baseboard. Maybe the baseboard will fit, or maybe not.

The skirting board is optional, now it is believed that it is better without it.

Who is considered? Where can you read or watch about it?

In short, we need clear dimensions down to a millimeter, including the dimensions of the refrigerator, they are quite different in width and depth.

Of course, dimensions are needed. Already asked.
But precise dimensions down to a millimeter seem to be a big secret so far.
But about the refrigerator, I do not really agree. Over time, maybe they want another refrigerator, a bigger one. Better to count with a margin.

No, no ... There dad has a Wishlist - a sink with two bowls and a wing. The width of the sink, which he dreams of, is known - 79 cm.

Yesterday the dream was recaptured, dad agrees to a sink with one bowl. BUT the wing is required. He said that if the second bowl does not work, I agree to a colander.
And the oven is no longer important, and the refrigerator can be to the window, BUT so that between the battery and the refrigerator is a roll-out cabinet (such as thermal insulation). How!
I can't keep up with their thoughts, I wait for the walls to be completed and crawl with a tape measure.

I read all the posts about this kitchen as a fascinating detective story. I also want to insert my 20 kopecks. My refrigerator is in the corner and the socket is located next to the side wall. But in order to turn on the refrigerator into this outlet, I had to move it away from the wall by 5 cm.Then, over time, it turned out that a tee was needed there, since.I had to turn on the refrigerator, the TV on it (these two are included in a double socket) and a fan was also added - so for it I had to put a tee in one socket, which sticks out strongly. And so the refrigerator has moved away from the wall, now this distance is 9 cm. It's good that the furniture was ordered after these movements, otherwise it would be extremely inconvenient. And this is with my kitchen almost 9 m2.
And in such a tiny oversaturated kitchen, where the count goes to millimeters, this can be critical.

[Blackout]

Blackout, as you have already been advised, send your parents somewhere to rest, and make a reasonable layout yourself. Or let them try to shove in the stuff themselves.

Who is considered? Where can you read or watch about it?

renard, take a look at the design forums. they generally consider the plinth in bad taste

maybe try this? .renard, please draw this option, if not difficult

No, I won't draw. It is useless, because Blackout's parents will reject and do not fit in size.
In total, everything that you listed is 260 cm.The specified length of the room is also 260.
But 10 cm from this length are eaten by a heating riser and a battery. there is a warm corner, a heating riser, so her parents were against putting a refrigerator in that corner. Today they changed their minds, and she posted a new picture with a refrigerator in the "warm corner".
Okay, let's say 15 cm from the wall - this will be a false box for the heating riser, and not the "pencil case" you proposed.
But the main thing is that this option does not fit into their wishlist - this is a sink. The head of the family wants a sink with a width of 79 cm. It is said that my father's dream must come true.
In addition, they now have a small one in the corner by the wall (the blackout has already laid out pictures) and they seem to be very determined to get rid of this decision. They can be understood, from the corner to the bowl, the indent is needed at least 30-40 cm, so as not to bend at the sink and both hands worked normally. In general, the underframe under the sink is less than 80 cm in no way fits into their Wishlist.
For everything else ...
45 oven offered. True, the option was with an oven from below. Until they decided about 45 ovens, Blackout wrote that they first gathered to feel what such ovens are.
They drew a washing machine for themselves in the middle of the kitchen unit, but they have already listed the disadvantages of this version (that the machine will either sink strongly relative to the headset and then there will be poor access to the ditch, or there will be a hatch and a control panel sticking out in the working area, making it difficult to stand there, that the gaps will be between the washing machine and the furniture, otherwise it will gouge the furniture when spinning, that it will be inconvenient to remove the washing machine from the headset, and it will not be possible to put it in place according to the level). In addition, to install the washing machine, you will need not 60, but at least 62 cm, so that the specified limit of centimeters is exceeded.

renard, take a look at the design forums. they generally consider the plinth in bad taste

Is there a specific link?
I am aware of the fact that some designers now consider it unnecessary to take out the countertop relative to the kitchen facades.
About the uselessness of the plinth, not, I have not heard.

No, no ... There dad has a Wishlist - a sink with two bowls and a wing. The width of the sink, which he dreams of, is known - 79 cm

Balin ... I have a kitchen of 14 meters, but in order to increase the space on the countertop I have a round sink by 45 centimeters. I am stupidly sorry for the missing space, especially since the dishwasher is nearby. And a family of 4 people, and enough for everything. : -

I am aware of the fact that some designers now consider it unnecessary to take out the countertop relative to the kitchen facades.

Like this?? All the dirt-water should drain immediately onto the facades ?? And if they swell?

I somehow discovered with amazement that there are countertops without a drip tray (or whatever this longitudinal influx is correctly called), now also without a visor, kick-ass ... I have a sink in the backyard with a porcelain stoneware countertop, the usual large floor tiles ...So in order to make life easier for my husband, I gave up the protruding countertop. And for some reason it is inconvenient for me to rest on my knees, although there is no water at all, splash there as you want.))

Like this?? All the dirt-water should drain immediately onto the facades ?? And if they swell?

Well that's how it is. They say that aesthetes no longer wear takeaways on the countertop so beautiful and in decent houses. and what type of water and dirt that with removal, that without removal all the same falls on the facades. You are welcome:

Balin ... I have a kitchen of 14 meters, but in order to increase the space on the countertop, I have a round sink 45 centimeters.

And I have 7.3. But the sink is 85 centimeters in the corner underframe 100. Artificial stone with a large bowl and a large wing. I like. True, I don't have a PMM in this kitchen. Therefore, it is convenient for me to put dirty dishes on the wing, it is convenient to put aside already washed ones, and then put them in their places.
I also go on the wing, stacking food while cooking. Vegetables, for example, that need to be peeled.
So I understand Dad Blackout in his wishes and almost support him. I just think that he went too far with the little extra bowl.



I tried to calculate more precisely the variant with which Blackout first came out into the topic.
Based on the dimensions of the installation 45 PMM:

It turns out about the following picture, if, in addition to the loading hatch, the rest of the machine does not stick out relative to the kitchen facades:

Then the PMM door will definitely not touch the washer hatch. Provided that the distance from the hatch to the edge of the machine is not less than 9 cm.At the corner of the sink and the PMM, false panels with a width of about 4 cm are obtained. sink tables - PMM on the table is about 49 cm.
And if you need the washer to protrude even more relative to the headset, not only by the hatch, but also by the body, then it is better to stick a bottle-holder between the sink and the washer. Then, for sure, the PMM door will not reach the washing machine case and the underframe for the sink will not have to be made non-standard.
In general, it's not good that the washer is in the middle of the working area. Better it would be from some edge.
And in the figure there are two options for placing the oven.
1 - cooking oven. Then there is space for the boxes only in the corner where the refrigerator is now.
2 - oven in the corner where the refrigerator is now. And the boxes are under cooking. It is inconvenient, of course, that the oven is in the corner, even when the table is brought up to it. But on the other hand, it still exists and all the other parents' wishes, except for the runway for 6 seats, are met.

[Blackout]

They say that it is so beautiful and in decent houses aesthetes no longer wear takeaways on the countertop

no, well, et kanEShna .. estEt know better))) But in my kitchen I am the mistress. And you need to do it as it is convenient for me, and not the mythical estu. It may not be fashionable .. You zhezh be in this kitchen.




I am not a supporter of corner sinks. But in this case, it might make sense to consider? So much space wasted in this dead corner.
But making a column with an oven and microwave seems to me successful. The oven must be raised so as not to bend over. And yet, again, it did not come true for me, because I forgot to put the CM on a pedestal, so that it was also convenient to load and unload the laundry.

Blackout, maybe we'll remove the SM from the kitchen, since the parents made concessions)))))

no, well, et kanEShna .. estEt know better))) But in my kitchen I am the mistress. And you need to do it as it is convenient for me, and not the mythical estu. It may not be fashionable .. You zhezh be in this kitchen.

So we are abstract, about the beautiful and expensive. Nobody suggested to anyone here urgently to remove or not to take out the table.

And yet, again, it did not come true for me, because I forgot to put the CM on a pedestal, so that it was also convenient to load and unload the laundry.
Blackout, maybe we'll remove the CM from the kitchen, since the parents made concessions)))))

Just if they were removed to the pantry, there would be a pedestal for a washing machine. True, we still do not know what size the pantry is. Or maybe the car won't fit into it like a kitchen.

the ends of the tile are perfectly closed with a special narrow metal profile (it seems to be put on the end of the tile).

You don’t understand, we were talking about the upper end of the tile and the transition between the tile and wallpaper or paint, if we are here about high and designer, which is without baseboards at the table. However, about the side end too.
Because the "correct designers" are now still hoping that it is wrong to combine different textures and colors on the same plane or outer corner, and the correct joint is only on the inner corner.
For some, the desire to follow this principle comes to insanity, when the esthete specially creates additional internal corners in the apartment, so that the materials fit together beautifully and the joint of different finishing materials does not crawl out at the outer corner or in the middle of one plane.

It is very interesting to read where the plinth on the kitchen counter is stigmatized. If you remember where you read it, share the link, please.

You do not understand, it was about the upper end of the tile and the transition between tile and wallpaper or paint

So I am about the same. Now I am doing repairs in the apartment I bought (new building) and they did it that way. I like it, it turned out very neatly.
And as for the plinth, they suggest making a kitchen apron after installing the countertop (or calculating the height of the lower cabinets to a millimeter), and then siliconizing the joint, since the plinth is not "comme il faut". If you are interested, type "the joint between the table top and the apron", I did not copy the links to myself, because I do not need it, but I saw such an innovation in more than one article. The same nonsense as with the overhang of the countertop

So I am about the same. Now I am doing repairs in the apartment I bought (new building) and they did it that way. I like it, it turned out very neatly.

That is, you have a tile end profile installed on the top end of a kitchen backsplash?
Sorry, why?

About the baseboard on the countertop ... I have personal experience. Back in 2002, I studied the issue of kitchens and in one of the salons, the designer told me that it is better to lay out the apron after installing the furniture just so as not to put the baseboard. When I was building my new kitchen, I did just that. Since 2003 I have been living without a plinth and I really like it. In the old kitchen, I replaced the countertop and put the baseboards. I can compare, there are pros and cons in both options. Dirt collects in the skirting boards and it is possible to clean them later, but not easy. Without a plinth - over time, the silicone at the junction in some places has moved away and there is now a small crack. It can be replaced, but it doesn't bother me yet. It has been keeping well near the sink for more than 17 years, but in other places it is not critical. But it does not take up space on the countertop, near the hob and sink, this is an essential point, it is easy to wipe off water and dirt there.

I somehow discovered with amazement that there are countertops without a drip tray (or whatever this longitudinal influx is correctly called), so now even without a visor, kick-ass ...

This edging is called a drip tray.

once again looked through all the drawings I drew for the blackout.
I tried to figure out a kitchen with a refrigerator in a warm corner. It's bullshit again.
I came to the conclusion that with a given set of appliances in this kitchen, it is better to either leave the refrigerator in the place where her parents have it and stand by itself. Or indeed, at the entrance.
With a refrigerator in a warm corner, everything that needs to be crammed still doesn't fit well. Somewhere something is wrong.
Question. Blackout, why don't you like how the refrigerator is with the parents now, that is, in the corner separately from the rest of the headset? That the cold is not at hand? Or rearranging the refrigerator, hoping to make a runway for 6 people? You seem to have even thought about the option of moving the refrigerator to the pantry. There he is no longer at hand ...

That is, you have a tile end profile installed on the top end of a kitchen backsplash?

To the corner (vertical) at the transition from the kitchen (tiles to the ceiling) to the corridor (wallpaper), that is, as if they closed the butt end (about 6mm thick) of the tiles

I have a kitchen of 14 meters, but in order to increase the space on the countertop, I have a round sink by 45 centimeters.

And I want to change to the same. Now I have a wing, which is completely unnecessary due to the fact that there is nothing to drain. The dishes from the dishwasher are dry, if they are plastic with drops, then I put them on a towel on the table for final drying. Dried up, put it back in place, rolled up the towel. If anyone is against old-fashioned towels, then paper towels can be used in the same way. They just threw them away and that's it.
No, sometimes the husband rinses the coffee mug and puts it upside down on the wing. The result is a brown mug mark on the wing. And it must be washed. In short, there is no wing - no problem and there is nothing more to wash.

About the skirting board. On my old kitchen set in the back, on the countertop, there was a built-in metal bar 3-4 cm high, which did not allow anything to flow along the wall and fall behind the kitchen set. At the same time, the tabletop itself was trimmed along the edges with a metal not high edge. That is, everything looked harmonious. These cabinets are no longer there, but the idea is very good. Better than a skirting board. I thought to myself, at least some plastic one to attach myself. Because I don't like the plinth.



Before, for a long time, I had a sink with a wing. It is not comfortable. The place was wasted. And I had to wash it all the time. Somehow it always looked not neat, then drops, then drips from drops. Now it is a regular car wash and much more convenient. I do everything on the countertop. If necessary, I put a chopping board.

Refrigerator in a warm corner ...
Blackout, let's count. The heating pipe eats 10 cm.Wrap the pipe in thermal insulation, sew it up with drywall - even 5 cm.
How much space is required to open the refrigerator door when installed in a corner so that it opens a little more than 90 degrees and shelves and drawers can be removed normally depends on the refrigerator model.
On average, approximately + 10 cm to the width of a non-built refrigerator should be laid for normal door opening if the refrigerator is in a corner.
In total, for everything else, an angle of 162+ x 175 remains.
Well, everything that you said to shove is normal and does not fit into this corner ...

Washing with a hatch to the entrance, as in your last picture - firstly, a difficult solution to implement, and secondly, it can also be visually dumb. Washer 60. The gaps on the sides of the washer are at least 1 cm. The side walls are still about 3 cm.Total, 65. And the standard countertop is 60 ...
And I still haven't been confused by the beauty of the type and what will happen if I still put on my side, facing the window, a false cover, but like a module next to the washing machine, which has a plinth, I will marry with a counter on the floor that covers the side of the washing machine. Or how the end of the countertop above the washer and the corner above the side of the washer will look like if, when choosing a countertop, parents choose a laminated countertop with a rounded edge ...
In general, do not fool yourself and your parents with the washing machine sideways to the wall. This is an even heavier option than a washer with hoses to the wall.

And I had to wash it all the time. Somehow it always looked not neat, then drops, then drips from drops.

Exactly! Also lime white stains in my case.

it can also be visually dumb.

It looks dumb in the picture too.
And then the depth of the standard lower pedestals is 560 mm (plus or minus) with a facade with a countertop depth of 600. The machine itself is already 600, plus gaps. then you need to increase everything. Bottom 650, table top 690. This is a plus to the price for non-standard.
And why should this bezel be attached? Corners to the floor and the adjacent side? Then it will not be flush with the facade.
If you put it like that, then at least a table on top should be extra. working surface. But then the height of the entire bottom must also be increased.

move away from the sink with a drainer and make a table made of artificial stone, i.e. pour it along with the sink

i.e. pour along with the sink

and skirting board.

And why should this bezel be attached?

there additional walls are installed.It turns out a wardrobe for a washing machine. Well, yes, the height will increase. And how will the growth of Blackout parents allow?
I'm looking for a kitchen with a maximum height + high table for myself. Then normul. Approximately 92 cm, otherwise back hurts.

move away from the sink with a drainer and make a table made of artificial stone, i.e. pour it along with the sink

Don't ... With their inconsistency, you have to listen to dad. Their dad said he needed a laminated countertop, and I think he's right. A stone countertop will be more expensive. The kitchen doesn't work out perfectly, whatever one may say. Perhaps, over time, they will want rearrangements and alterations. SchA they will invest in an expensive table - and that's it, they've arrived, no rearrangements. Then poor Blackout will eat up her bald spot that the alteration does not work.
I wouldn't put a normal table for them right away. I would put plywood or some kind of wood from the trash heap. To try what they are not satisfied with in the new line-up and decide on the final version.




A few days ago there was a clear installation. The refrigerator is by no means in a warm corner.
Now thousand! The refrigerator can be in a warm corner .... You start counting - and it doesn't work out normally with a refrigerator in a warm corner.
And the day after tomorrow they may change their minds again and say that they want the refrigerator in the same place, in the corner opposite the entrance, which is separate from the kitchen set.

will change their minds again

two options
1 send parents on vacation
2 ask to draw the kitchen ourselves in order to come to a common solution together
I am for the first))))

That's interesting to me. If parents had one more piece of large technology that they want to put into the kitchen, what would it be? It seems to me that you can shove everything, but it won't be able to work - well, like in a cramped home appliance store, just a showcase.
My opinion is that parents still need to convey the idea, here or checkers, or go. Especially about the sink!

For me, for example, a washing machine in the kitchen is torture. I try to remove sound equipment from myself))) Now in the bath. Can not hear.
So I came to the kitchen, to drink tea, maybe a kin glance, and then chukh-chukh-chuh-chukh .. and ad infinitum ...

I'm curious, but when the washer is built-in, how is it dried after washing?
I just never had such units, I do not know the nuances of their operation.
Household washers, even built-in ones, are left ajar after work so that the machine can dry out and ventilate from moisture. This is also why when the PMM is located at an angle to the sink at the corner, larger false panels are needed so that the not completely closed PMM door does not interfere when the sink door is opened.
It is also recommended to leave a freestanding front-loading washing machine ajar after washing. And what about the built-in washing machine? Should the facade be left ajar after washing? Or are there any special options in built-in ones like "dry and ventilate the car".?

Thank you for discussing the kitchen, I have learned so much new things. Special thanks to renard for being indifferent.
A comfortable, ergonomic and eye-pleasing design is not possible. In NO way is it possible to fit a project with everyone with wishes on this area.

[Blackout]

Blackout, so either let it be, or put a washing machine and a refrigerator in the treasure. If you have already measured everything in the pantry and rises as it should, use it. And you also reorganize the pantry rubbish, over time.
They will not be offended, they will like it. They are blackmailing you))))