Furniture for kitchen

to attach to the countertop

Freestanding and desktop where are they attached?

[Galina]

Galina, I was recently installed an inset - an oven, so it is fastened inside like that ... I can look in the instructions and take a picture, if you want, just like something "gentle" or something ..

The oven is fixed on the sides, but my second dishwasher is simply installed and the facade is hung. Not fixed anywhere. When the first one broke, the master came and just put it forward.

[Blackout]

Blackout, and how are they right now in the kitchen?

Galina, they recently installed an insert for me - an oven, so it is fixed inside like that ...

Screws into the end of the cabinet body.

By the way, from my sad experience, I know that it is terribly inconvenient when there are no lower cabinets. There is nowhere to store pots and pans, and it is very inconvenient to get heavy things from the upper shelves. If all the cabinets are occupied with the equipment required in this case, then it will turn out that way.

Screws into the end of the cabinet body

Exactly !! I couldn't remember what and how

Blackout, look.
Dishwasher open to the corner of the sink. What is the inconvenience in the photo is clearly visible - you can approach only from one side, you will have to reach for the PMM across the table:

Non-recessed PMM between the refrigerator and the sink, corner to the sink.

The same inconvenience, only it is even more inconvenient to reach the PMM through a high refrigerator than through a low table ...
And besides, when the PMM is placed at an angle to the sink, then when the machine is dried (and the machine is usually left slightly open after work), inconveniences arise in using the sink. To get into the underframe of the sink (in the trash can, for example), you have to cover the PMM.

And reviews about PMM in the corner: 🔗

The most similar dilemma. In a new apartment, in the kitchen, a PMM is obtained either at an angle to the sink, or at the end of the kitchen set, between the module with the oven and cooker and the refrigerator. Or so, with hemorrhoids when loading and drying the machine:

Or so, with hemorrhoids with the connection of the machine to the sewer, the support of the table, and a source of humidity near the cold store:

And then, and then - crap, but you can't put it in another way ...
It is very difficult to choose the least nasty of the two poop.

Dishwasher open to the corner of the sink. What is the inconvenience in the photo is clearly visible - you can only approach from one side, you will have to reach for the PMM across the table:

I have had this for many years. No inconvenience - the dishwasher baskets slide out, everything is easy to put in and get out. Convenience depends more on the organization of storage and the lower cabinets where what lies. You just need to think so that the dishes from the dishwasher can be immediately put into the closet, or if they can be taken out on the countertop, then at a minimum.
By the way, the photo shows how a non-native dishwasher without a slider is installed in the Ikeevsky kitchen.

I have had this for many years. No inconvenience - the dishwasher baskets slide out, everything is easy to put in and get out.

My PMM can be delivered in two ways.
Or so, at an angle to the sink:

Or like this, next to the refrigerator:

I don't like either one or the other, but I have nowhere to go ...
Well at least the task of shoving a washing machine into the kitchen is not worth it, otherwise it would be quite fun.

By the way, if you don't use the oven very intensively, then there are microwaves with an oven function. If you buy one, you will not need to build in an oven.

Not ... Multifunctional devices like 2-in-one and 3-in-one do not fit into our religion.
And about ovens combined with microwave ovens, just the other day I read that most of the manufacturers have taken them out of production, and now it is a problem to get one.
Well, maybe the manufacturers did the right thing. Oven = appliance that rarely breaks down. But the microwave is an unpredictable thing, if you are lucky, it can work for decades and not break, or it can be covered in a year after the purchase. A consumable technique, like an electric kettle ...
In addition, I also already have all the equipment - oven, cooking, refrigerator, microwave, PMM in stock and I am not yet set up to buy a new one.
I will gradually update it as it breaks down.

[renard]

renard, I have had such a microwave oven for almost 8 years working properly. But again, I don't use it too often as an oven. Maximum, once a week, or even less.

Girls, how interesting it is to read! I have a kitchen 8m, now, after reading you, it would change a lot, but there is no possibility. Everything suits, the placement of the washing machine and refrigerator is a little annoying. Initially, I did not want a washing machine in the bathroom, there is a place. I put it in the kitchen, but sideways, opposite the refrigerator. It's by the doorway. I had to remove the door. The washer is narrow, the refrigerator is also 55c, protrudes slightly into the doorway.

Such are the amendments and clarifications to the Blackout kitchen:

It is advisable to increase the distance between the refrigerator and the sink by as much as possible due to the doorway. Throw at least 5 cm so that while standing at the sink with your elbow in the corner of the refrigerator you do not hammer.
A standard door is 70 cm, an opening for its installation is needed at least 80 cm, respectively, if the dimensions were given correct and now the opening width is 88 cm, then 8 centimeters can be gained by the length of the wall.
But at the same time, the door will rise in a very ugly way, because the door frames will not fit in and the door will open less than 90 degrees. And the refrigerator will be at the edge of the opening.
If neither the washing machine nor the refrigerator can be thrown out of the kitchen, then it makes sense to think about a kitchen without a door at all.
as an option, you can try to shove the oven or washing machine into another corner by the window, where the wall is 45 cm.But then there will be no place at all on the dining table, you will have to sacrifice it and replace it with something like a bar counter.

It's funny, of course ... In the forum with the name of the bread maker, it is suggested to take, and put a completely toy oven in the kitchen. A narrow oven is the same "suitable" device for those who are fond of baking.

[renard]

Small addition: the width of the doorway can be made to any width, and the door can be made sliding. From my experience of arranging life in the studio))
And now I have a 1m doorway and no door - it's more convenient for me.



renard, yes, the more ideas we throw in, the more choice the author of the question will have. I myself at one time very much on the forum helped with advice on repair.

the width of the doorway can be made to any width, and the door can be made sliding.

Any - bottom. It is necessary that the equipment and furniture pass.
And this is at least an opening for the door of 70 cm (i.e., the opening itself is 80, the door leaf is 70), if the door does not open more than 90 degrees.
The light opening itself at the box under the 70th door is about 68 cm (due to the claps on which the canvas rests), plus the door leaf will stick out in the opening. And about 65 = 64 cm will remain for the passage and skidding of furniture and equipment.
And the sliding door to the Blackout kitchen won't fit, there's nowhere to move it.
And even if there was somewhere, then sliding kitchen doors and swinging bathroom doors would look bad, because they are attached at different heights.

Any - bottom. It is necessary that the equipment and furniture pass.

It's clear). First, I made furniture, then doors.

And even if there was somewhere, then sliding kitchen doors and swinging bathroom doors would look bad, because they are attached at different heights.

This must also be taken into account, of course. But everything can be calculated and done as you like. But, again, this turns into a major renovation - one thing inevitably pulls another.

[the dishwasher is not attached to the furniture,]

Neither a washing machine nor the dishwasher is not attached to the furniture, only the facades are hung, and they themselves stand.

I quote myself

How is it that embedded PMMs are not attached? Very much even attached.

I repent I misled the people. It became the most interesting - how is it in life? I clarified with my son - ours is fixed to the tabletop with special corners (they came with the PMM). They simply cannot be seen, because they are covered with a special plate to protect the table top. Exclusively for the sake of curiosity, I watched a video on the internet, where the PMM is attached to the frame with special screws directly from the inside of the PMM. Manya

And in our kitchens the ovens are not fixed at all. And the PMM in one of the apartments is simply inserted between the modules, also without fasteners. It happens, yes, you open the oven or PMM - and the unit goes outside the door. But we have somehow got used to that it is not fixed, we have adapted to pull the door so that the whole car does not follow it.

Freestanding and desktop where are they attached?

I have no desktop. But the freestanding ones are fixed to the table top From the bottom

It's clear). First, I made furniture, then doors.

And we have repairs first, then furniture. But how about the furniture in the kitchen will stand before renovation, of course, was considered.
Doors to the kitchen are just a sore point ...
In all the apartments that we have ever had, or in which we lived, the openings to the kitchen were moronic and ugly, "thanks" for this to the designers of the buildings ... In the latter, in general, the opening is 80 cm, formed by a load-bearing wall and a ventilation duct. That is, it is impossible to move or expand it, to narrow it to make flanges under the platbands is also impossible. Platbands do not stand up normally, only in dissolution, the opening angle of the door more than 90 does not work.
The ugliness is ugly. But I don’t want to give up the door to the kitchen. The apartment is one-room, the kitchen can sometimes be used as a bedroom, so you need to be able to close it.

In the latter, there is generally an opening of 80 cm, formed by a load-bearing wall and a ventilation box

Yes, you can't frolic here))

moronic and ugly, thanks to the building designers for that ...

I also remembered them many times for this. I especially like it when these microscopic apartments, in which you have to count literally everything up to cm, in a tiny hallway in the very center solemnly flaunts a counter. I always had to carry it to a corner. And the battery was not under the window, but unexpectedly along the wall. All, naturally, endured.

And we have repairs first, then furniture.

It's just that my repair and furniture was done by the same master.

The same "beauty" as in these photos, from the side of the kitchen, that from the side of the corridor.
Such "beautiful" is difficult to spoil even more:


On the one hand, there is a non-movable load-bearing wall, on the other, a ventilation box ... Why the designers didn't put this box in the corner of the kitchen - I don't understand. But this disgusting furniture interferes with thoroughly arranging, and the door because of it rises ugly.
There would be a "cube" of the ventilation box in the corner - there would be candy ... And then you wouldn't have to break your head, but how to use the corner effectively. It would have already been used for a ventilation box.

interferes thoroughly,

everything is solvable.
Permission to change the vent channel.
Call the designers
They offer several proven options.
You order and arrange the furniture as you want.

It's funny, of course ... In the forum with the name of the bread maker, you propose to take, and put a completely toy oven in the kitchen. A narrow oven is the same "suitable" device for those who are fond of baking.

Well, yes, you can't put a wild boar or a big goose / turkey in my "narrow and completely toy" oven (but I never cooked such a thing in a big oven), but bake two baking sheets of 30x35 cm pies / pies, muffins or cookies at a time, bake a whole duck or shag a good broiler, bake a full-fledged pizza, a couple of standard loaves of bread or a large hearth loaf - it's all easy!
I have only been using my new small oven since this April, and now I am seriously thinking about whether I can get rid of the standard oven in the future, which is new in the package and is waiting for repair. In terms of functionality, they are the same, but a large one in vain eats up a lot of space, in addition, a small oven heats up quickly and cools down just as quickly, without heating the kitchen as much as a stationary colossus, and electricity is saved.

.

everything is solvable.
Permission to change the vent channel.

No, it can't be solved. This is a ventilation box with a common shaft in the middle and satellite channels on the sides.

As far as I could find out, kitchens of apartments are connected to one channel. The second channel, which just adjoins the door, is the basement ventilation. Neither one nor the other will not be allowed to cut, unless it is about an apartment on the first floor.

No, it can't be solved.

OK. I just saw apartments with a reconstructed, transferred box more than once. Yes, and in my apartment too, the box was moved. None of the tenants were hurt.

This is a ventilation box

So what? I'm not suggesting you dismantle it. And you cannot transfer to another place on your own. We need projects already.

no one will allow cutting

may be. I would not be so categorical.

Well, yes, you can't put a wild boar or a big goose / turkey in my "narrow and completely toy" oven

Do you have a built-in oven 45 cm wide? Recommend?
And then I tried to finish the project that Blackout originally drew. With an oven 60 cm wide and a PMM angle to the sink ... The garbage turned out to be garbage. It seems better with a narrow one.

And I will duplicate what happens with the narrow one:

With a large oven, first of all, in any case, you need to change the width of the opening, because about 5 cm is not enough for the installation between the refrigerator and the PMM sink. With a narrow oven, you can do almost nothing with the opening. Although it is better to narrow it down.
Loading the PMM in a project with a wide oven is worse. Installing the PMM in a project with a wide oven is more difficult, since the PMM is at the end of the kitchen.
In a project with a wide oven at the bottom, there are no boxes for small things, you get a bottle holder, and it is, of course, a useful thing, but not as roomy as boxes 40 cm wide.
Even in a project with a wide oven, it is not possible to symmetrically position the cooking over the oven. You have to move it so that Blackout does not fall into the pan with your elbows when poking around the sink, and so that the surface between the sink and the cooking is larger ... And the shift of the cooking relative to the oven with a paravoz will pull problems with the upper row.
In general, the more I play with this picture, the more it seems to me that if the set of techniques cannot be changed in any way, then it is better to put the oven narrow ...

Do you have a built-in oven 45 cm wide? Recommend?

I have a standard oven built into a 60 cm wide cabinet, but I "recommend" to throw it out, put a washing machine or a dishwasher instead, and attach a desktop oven on top, as a second tier.
My stove is compact (w-50, v-35, g-35), now it stands on a wide windowsill, so working with the oven without bending your back is very convenient.

I have a standard oven built into a 60 cm wide cabinet, but I "recommend" to throw it out, put a washing machine or a dishwasher instead, and attach a desktop oven on top, as a second tier.

So little work surfaces are obtained. And the oven is close to the cooking, it will get dirty on the side, Blackout will get tired of washing the barrel near the oven.
Better indeed, somewhere on her windowsill. Or in the corner near the table.

So little work surfaces are obtained.

Not so little if the sink is installed on one edge, along the wall from the door, and the oven on the other, on the washing machine by the window. Moreover, the cooking area is narrow, for two burners. The dining table is also a work surface. And what if the kitchen is toy.

will get dirty from the side, Blackout will get tired of washing the barrel near the oven.

This is the smallest problem, you can think of kakonchik "screen".

Better indeed, somewhere on her windowsill.

It depends on which window sills, they are wide in my brick Khrushchev, and my sister's kitchen is a little larger, according to the description it is similar to the kitchen of the TS, but the window sill is very narrow, you can't even put flower pots.

Not so little if the sink is installed on one side

Brrr ... The sink is completely in the corner - not ergonomic. The left shoulder will all the time lower, poke his left elbow into the wall, rub the wallpaper or tiles in this place, and in the end, scoliosis will start.
In addition, between the sink and the refrigerator, the gap is only 40 cm wide.Well, 45, if they try very hard and the doorway is narrowed ... If the sink is completely pushed into the corner, then it is still standing at the sink with its back and the booty will rub against the side of the refrigerator.

Brrr ...

You won't please!
You better draw a similar version on the plan, let's see how it will look.

You won't please!

that's the point))))

[under]

PM has not been purchased yet, did I understand correctly? There are also small dishwashers, considered table-top, but I fit perfectly into a 60 cm cabinet under sink, only a flat siphon is needed. They are with one basket, but there are two rocker arms. In terms of the quality of washing, everything suits me, whether the dishes will fit into it after gatherings for 6 people I can't say, but I stuff several different-sized pots into it. Even a bowl from 6 liters of Kenwood in height fits. But yes, then you need to redraw the entire already beautifully built geometry of the kitchen.

There are also small dishwashers, they are considered table-top, but I fit perfectly into 60 cm.the cabinet under the sink, you only need a flat siphon

I had this option for the very first - a 60 cm Bosch piccolo was hidden in an 80 cm sink cabinet. Then there were no flat siphons, but I found a sink with a drain in the right corner, and the siphon was just placed in the remaining 20 cm of the cabinet. For the 90s, this was a very convenient solution. And now there are much more opportunities - the same flat siphons.

[Crown]

Crown, and if this tabletop oven of yours on a Chinese microwave stand from Ali-Express, do you think the stand will stand? Is the oven too heavy?

You better draw a similar version on the plan, let's see how it will look.

So above are the pictures with dimensions.
And she laid out a plan with the dimensions of Blackout. True, she did not mark the heating riser in the corner on the plan. I didn’t draw the battery, and didn’t report the depth of the window sill, so the problem turned out with several unknowns.
And in general, it is not clear whether this is her kitchen plan and whether those dimensions.
She wrote that she had four in the 1605 series. And she laid out the kitchen plan from the two-room apartment discussed at the IVD. 🔗

- A 60cm Bosch piccolo was hidden in an 80cm sink cabinet.

Such?

I'll get in: I have such a Kandy, only a 60 cm cabinet. There is a place for bubbles on top.

It's difficult to quote from the bodies, so I immediately answer: the machine is similar, only it seemed to be a little higher. And pressed against the left wall, and on the right was a siphon. But the idea is the same.

I'm talking about such a stand:

I'm talking about such a stand:

What for? On the stand, the stove is too high, it weighs 10-12 kg, above it, through a gap, you can certainly put a micra, but this will also be too high.

I put the PMM desktop in the corner on the countertop. The sink is nearby. Because of the inconvenience, it splashes, but I am here in the fairy club, so I wash my sink every night and immediately wipe the machine with it. Everything is done automatically, of course. With my Giraffe pop, a little soda, liquid soap, vinegar and a wet mesh smear it all over the sink, taps, countertop, apron and PMM straight into the sink. Then I wash it off with a wet rag. 3 minutes and cleanliness.

.

How many discussions Once again I am convinced that kind and sympathetic people are on the bread maker
Thank you all for your suggestions, advice, tips.But above all, the kitchen is for parents, so their opinion is important and it often does not coincide with mine.
Anecdote on the topic:
"-We started a renovation.
-What did you start with?
-From the fight. "

The proposal to remove the washing machine or refrigerator from the kitchen was categorically rejected. It is necessary to adapt the existing technique. I liked the narrow oven option. We decided to look at the store to touch and decide.
Currently, repairs in the kitchen and after leveling the walls are possible + -cm. For example, the floor "leaves" 2 cm in level.

I don't recommend a double sink. If with a wing, then it can be used as a tabletop, given that the working surface is already very small. Plus, the PMM will stand under the wing of the sink, but no longer under the additional sink.

The wing will be in the corner and nothing will fit under it. And the one and a half shell with a wing is an old dream of dad, dreams must come true.

And in the place of the refrigerator at the entrance, a machine under the table can also turn out niche.

There was such an option, but they had a firm decision not to put the refrigerator in a warm corner and not to take it anywhere. He will be at the entrance.
Kandy Trio is a wonderful unit, but a narrow PMM is better. It would be possible to put a countertop under the sink, but the option with a narrow dishwasher is chosen.

Trying to figure out where your pantry is, I googled a plan with the dimensions of a four in the 1605-AM series and in the forum at the IVD I came across a whole apartment plan, the dimensions and plan of the kitchen from which you laid out. But there is not four at all. As I understand it, you just took a piece of the plan for another apartment from the same series of houses? And the dimensions on the plan are approximate-approximate strictly by eye? Ay-y-yay,

I also tried to find an apartment plan on the Internet. No Apparently these are combined odnushki with kopeck pieces, apartment with windows on three sides, two balconies. There are no triangular rooms. The dimensions on a piece of the plan are the same, but I don't know how much + -cm after leveling the walls. The walls are obscenely crooked

Blackout, how are they doing in the kitchen right now?

Now the kitchen has bare walls, electric grooves. The beauty.

If all the cabinets are occupied with the equipment required in this case, then it will turn out that way.

I warned about this, which is why they were delighted that under the sink you can reduce the cabinet to 80 cm, put a 40 cm cabinet with shelves to put the pots.

Dishwasher open to the corner of the sink.

In Leroy (Khimki) there is a sample with such an arrangement of the dishwasher. Mom had the opportunity to touch in order to understand. According to the original location of the dishwasher, the kitchen was generally for left-handers.

It is very difficult to choose the least nasty of the two poop.

This is probably the most accurate description of the process.

If neither the washing machine nor the refrigerator can be thrown out of the kitchen, then it makes sense to think about a kitchen without a door at all.

The door to the kitchen was removed long ago, everyone is satisfied with the variant of the "accordion" type. It is very possible to reduce the doorway.

Quote: renard from Yesterday at 16:08 Better really somewhere on her windowsill. It depends on which window sills, they are wide in my brick Khrushchev, and my sister's kitchen is a little larger, according to the description it is similar to the kitchen of the TS, but the window sill is very narrow, you can't even put flower pots.

The windowsill is narrow and you can't even put a kettle on it.

PM has not been purchased yet, did I understand correctly?

A narrow built-in dishwasher was purchased. You need to buy a hob, oven and extractor hood.

The walls are obscenely crooked

Well, I already wrote. Some manufacturers have furniture cases with a depth of about 48-50 cm.
This is done on purpose so that pipes and cables can be laid behind the furniture without strobing or with minimal strobing when it comes to sewerage wiring. And also this is done in case the walls are curves and corners are not straight.

I have a kitchen made from factory modules of the Kaliningrad factory Rossibalt. The depth of the lower cabinets is either 50 or 51 cm (I don't remember exactly). Facade approx. 2 cm. Another 2 cm removal of the countertop relative to the facade.Total, 54-55 cm.A tabletop 60.
Accordingly, there is a gap of 4-5 cm behind the tables. I have water pipes going to the sink in this gap. And the sewer immediately from the sanitary cabinet enters the sink, the location of the sink and the sanitary cabinet is the same as yours. And to the stove (more precisely, to the cooking and oven) behind the furniture, a fat cable is stretched in an open way.

So, depending on the manufacturer's choice, you don't have to bother much about squareness. And about verticality below the level of the table - too.
The most critical wall you have is the bathroom, it must be the first to level it to a minimum, and then the corner for the kitchen set must be aligned along it.
Although I repeat, nowadays there is kitchen furniture that calmly stands in oblique corners.
The gap will be between the furniture and the wall, and the assemblers can adjust the table to the curvature of the walls (solid wood and chipboard, for sure, about other materials - I don't know. I know that sinks made of "artificial stone" are drilled with a special cutter and sawn with a hacksaw once or twice ).

The window sill is narrow and you can't even put a kettle on it.

How narrow?

furniture cases are about 48-50 cm deep.

horrible horror. Accidentally caught. Now I spit every day. Fortunately, I will move to another house.)))

And in general, it is not clear whether this is her kitchen plan and whether those dimensions. She wrote that she had four in the 1605 series. And she laid out the kitchen plan from the two-room apartment discussed at the IVD. 🔗

So, according to the plan, we have a pantry, a bath, a toilet and a kitchen, as in the two-room, the dimensions are the same, but the rooms have a different arrangement. But the rooms are not of interest, repairs in the kitchen.

horrible horror.

And what is the horror? What will these funny 4-5 cm table depths give you? Additional hemorrhoids with electrical and plumbing? Additional costs for wall chamfering and water mains embedded in the walls, so that if the four-thread flows, it will not be easy to extract?
Have any pipe leaks in the walls passed yet?
I've passed ... And now I belong to the opponents of the communications hidden in the walls.
It took place in the kitchen. We made repairs, leveled the walls and corners behind some shit, exactly at 90 (and cho, nevertheless, they align at the level and at 90, just "right"), and also made a hidden water supply to the sink. In case Ikea with its freaking sizes will have to be installed. And we have this eyeliner tore after installing the mixer. The plumber pulled one corner. I had to tear the corner set, move the furniture aside, pluck pipes out of the wall. Again dust, dirt, shit ...
After that, I said that I didn't need "beauty" in the form of hidden plumbing in the kitchen. At the kitchen tables, no one sees the wall anyway. Well, since the furniture made it possible to lay pipes behind it, we changed this eyeliner to an open one.

Now the kitchen has bare walls, electric grooves. The beauty.

no, well, I did not mean right now.)))) before the repair.