Furniture for kitchen

At the kitchen tables, no one sees the wall anyway.

I didn't bother with this, but that's exactly what they did to me))

The proposal to take the washing machine or refrigerator out of the kitchen was categorically rejected. It is necessary to adapt the existing technique. I liked the narrow oven option. We decided to look at the store to touch and decide.

Then the solution narrows down to the only option - it's already easier)).

Additional hemorrhoids with electrical and plumbing?

If everything is done correctly, then nothing will explode. And if you dude, then ..
These 4-5 cm give me a lot. The feeling of a normal cabinet, and not a truncated box, into which a normal frying pan does not fit. And I'm used to full-size wardrobes. Already several times tore off the boxes, trying to push them all the way.
And the water main is nizzing into the walls, only an electrician.

And if you dude, then.

You can only be 100% sure of your own work. And when someone does something, any options are possible, unfortunately.

I warned about this, which is why they were delighted that under the sink you can reduce the cabinet to 80 cm, put a 40 cm cabinet with shelves to put the pots.

But I think that there are not shelves needed, but boxes. At least one small one and the rest - what will turn out and what the manufacturer will have. A drawer is more convenient than a shelf. And besides, if there are no drawers, where will you put all the small things - cutlery, spoons, ladles, knives, sharpeners, openers, closures, rolling pins, beaters, hatchets, packing films, foil, baking paper, etc. and etc.?
Will you stick everything with rails and keep it in plain sight?
Well ... The taste and color of the markers are different, but in general, the railing in the kitchen is evil and a source of chaos and srach, which often disfigures the kitchen, and does not fit into some styles at all.
I have a rail in the kitchen. But it only has one board hinge. And the hooks on which I hang pots and pans to dry, and then put them in shelves and tables.
At first, I had the most dangling on the railing. Spoons, skimmers, jars of spices of all sorts ... But the fumes from cooking very well settled on them and they quickly became salted. And since I am lazy, I was really sick of all this to constantly wash.
In addition, once on the Internet I ran into either a forum or a blog of some designers (I don't remember already), who branded the habit of hanging various kitchen utensils on the walls with shame and explained the ugliness of such a decision, posted photos when the railing fits in into the kitchen, and when he turns it into a collection of mad old woman's ladders. Well, I read their scholarly artistic opinions. I looked at my rail again ... And I realized that they were right. And practically everything, except for the shelf for cutting boards, was removed from the railing. And now, in reality, it has become more convenient, if only because I don't have to wash these skimmers, ladles and jars of spices.
I would also remove the shelf from my kitchen with the boards, if I had the opportunity. Yes, the boards dry for a long time. You put the damp one in the furniture - and it will bloom there ... But I have no place for a special dryer.

And when someone does something

That control every two hours. Do not do what you need, then dosvidos. All alterations at their expense. And sign the contract. Terms and everything else are negotiated.

What will these funny 4-5 cm table depths give you?

Hello! In a small kitchen, 5 cm is critical. By the way, it is not necessary to brick the pipes, it is enough just to bury them in the wall - I have a sewer line to the sink for a long time and calmly lay in the channel punched in the wall, and all this disgrace is covered by cabinets.
After the repair, I will also bury the kitchen battery in the wall, save a "bunch" of space, and then the sofa will come 15-20 cm closer to the wall by the window and the passage to the kitchen will become freer, and there are already plans for the vacant space.

That control every two hours.

I worked for days when they made repairs to me, so this is not an option for me. And the master did not like to work, when I came - he just stopped. But when I didn’t like what he was doing, I reworked it. This mainly concerned furniture, that is, what was available to my understanding and assessment of convenience)). Of course, I didn’t interfere with technology - I have to trust here.

and did not like the master to work when I arrived

the main thing is the result. And he loves-dislikes, this is his own business)))

In addition, once on the Internet I ran into either a forum or a blog of some designers (I don't remember already) who branded the habit of hanging different kitchen utensils on the walls with shame and explained the ugliness of such a decision,

And me someone else's aesthetic opinion on the drum, I'm comfortable and that's the main thing! I have a lot on the rails from what I constantly use. There is room for one more, I want to install it under a couple of new pans and favorite dippers.

By the way, it is not necessary to brick up the pipes, it is enough just to bury them in the wall - I have a sewer line to the sink for a long time and calmly lay in the channel punched in the wall, and all this mess is covered by cabinets.

One Blackout sewer pipe, most likely, will still have to be buried into the wall.
Washer drain to connect. You can, of course, just throw the drain hose under the plinth. It is less than 3 meters from the car to the sink, the pump must be pumped ... But it is better not to force the car like that, but to lead a pipe to it. And since the pipe will go behind the oven and PMM, you will have to deepen this pipe. Because, unlike furniture, there may not be a large gap behind the technique. They will have to look at the installation diagrams of the selected models. But most likely, you will have to strike ...

Quote: Blackout from Today at 12:20 pm Now in the kitchen there are bare walls, electric grooves. Beauty. no, well, I didn’t mean right now.)))) before the repair.

I am not a very good artist, but even before the kitchen was not distinguished by its beauty and convenience. I sketched the arrangement of furniture in the planner approximately as it was, but by the size of the approximate, do not judge strictly. Dishwasher, stove, sink from the door. Washing machine, and the table is moved to it, when the machine is loaded, the table is pulled back. Soviet folding table.
There was a bench above the radiator in the corner, it was very good to sit with your back to the warm wall and stretch your legs on the bench. And the window sill was made minimal so that it would not bite into the back when you sit on a bench at the table.

And the water main is nizzing into the walls, only an electrician.

Can. But it's dangerous. For example, in my bathroom, the route to the heated towel rail lies in a gate in a brick partition. Wrapped in thermal insulation and plastered with gypsum plaster. And if you lay it open, it will turn out either along the wall of the entire bathroom, or with crooked squiggles, and it will be airy so that the heated towel rail does not work.
If it explodes, we will open the tiles. )))) pah-pah-pah, so you never have to do this.
I would be glad if the track was not in the wall. But the layout doesn't work that way.
I'm not even talking about new buildings, in which now heating and water are often laid on the floor in a screed ... The horizontal distribution of heating and water supply is called. The project of the house provides for, there are no heating risers in the apartment, there is a common riser on the landing, pipes creep from it into the apartments along the floor.Usually, new settlers are given such a layout ready-made, but it happens that they themselves have to pull everything. In modern houses, it happens that there are no plumbing pipes in the apartment. Pipes also crawl along the floor with snot from the stairwell to the bathroom.

I am not a very good artist, but even before the kitchen was not distinguished by its beauty and convenience. I sketched the arrangement of furniture in the planner approximately as it was, but by the size of the approximate, do not judge strictly. From the door dishwasher, stove, sink

It is easier to draw by hand on a piece of paper, put down numbers and scan or take a picture of a drawing, than to suffer if the graphics are not pulled by your device or you do not know how to use graphic editors.
Graph paper, rulers and pencils are not in deficit.

The dimensions are not visible in your picture. And it is not clear what the size of the walls at the window. Is the refrigerator closing part of the window now?

I warned about this, which is why they were delighted that under the sink you can reduce the cabinet to 80 cm, put a 40 cm cabinet with shelves to put the pots.

it is dangerous to cut the underframe under the sink to 80 cm, this was already discussed when you said the size of the sink that dad dreams of. The sink may not fit. Or the baseboard of the countertop will not fit. At 85 - I give a grudge, it will fit. And 80 - it is necessary to look at the inset diagram.
In general, the less you cut it, the less the refrigerator will stick out relative to the furniture and the sink, and the more convenient it will be to work near the sink.

[renard]

renard, the graphics are not mine, but the drawing of the past kitchen is more sketchy than it looks like an exact plan. For example, I will not say exactly how much it was from the window to the table or from the sink to the washing machine. Excuse me generously

And 80 - it is necessary to look at the inset diagram.

[Blackout]

Blackout, I read all the rehearsals and discussions of your kitchen diagonally, that is, I don’t know the details.
I saw your drawing and the question arose: why don't you want to put the kitchen in a corner?
In the place from where we are looking, I understand correctly, a wall?
If so, then everything you need is a working corner, and a dining group is at this wall.
If I'm not talking about that and not "to that steppe", then please

[Ilmirushka]

Ilmirushka, My "drawing" as it was before, at the request of Kolobashka. How could ...
And now the corner project is drawn with household appliances, which are hardly accommodated by the collective mind.

And now the corner project is drawn with household appliances, which are hardly accommodated by the collective mind.

aaaa, well, I see.
I know, I know that it’s hard to shove the unpushable
We also passed this moment of life

Anecdote on the topic:
"-We started a renovation.
-What did you start with?
-From the fight. "

this is normal. We, while being repaired and built, divorced 5 times. Twice officially)))) Well, then you get married again, then repair or construction

[renard]

renard, the graphics are not mine, but the drawing of the past kitchen is more sketchy than it looks like an exact plan. For example, I will not say exactly how much it was from the window to the table or from the sink to the washing machine. Excuse me generously

Well, what then are we talking about? A tiny room, every inch counts. We missed with measurements by 5 cm - oops, and something doesn't fit anymore.
If the graphics are not yours, a piece of paper and a pencil to help. Measure the kitchen, each wall, put it on the plan. Do not forget to measure where and how the riser and the battery. The windowsill too ...
In the meantime, it turns out that we are discussing 2 pages or even more of a spherical horse in a vacuum and chatting in general about kitchen furniture and repairs.

Does the refrigerator still close the window or not? And if it closes, how much? Maybe it makes sense to think about increasing the wall where you now have a refrigerator (for example, by reducing the angle of dawn of the window slope, or even by replacing the window and installing a small white capercaillie)?
I like the way you have it now, because I don't like bulky items at the entrance to the kitchen.And I drew coldness for you at the entrance only because you wrote that your parents did not agree to put the refrigerator somewhere else. If the window does not close, then you could leave the refrigerator where you have it and try to come up with a different kitchen layout.

Does the refrigerator still close the window or not?

The refrigerator does not close the window, but the table moves to this corner. They don't agree to any bar counters or folding tables.
There is no more room for the table, and all gatherings in the kitchen happen.




Formerly in the kitchen, the only work surface is the kitchen table. It is very uncomfortable.
Also, due to the fact that the wall between the kitchen and the toilet is not load-bearing, the upper cabinets are not heavy to hang.

A tiny room, every inch counts. We missed with measurements by 5 cm - oops, and something doesn't fit anymore.

Correct if I'm wrong. When ordering a kitchen, a measurer arrives before manufacturing and then the project is finally approved. After all, only on the ground can you see all the nuances and pitfalls. And in the salon, as you say, they will draw. So?

For example, wall 265. Salon manager: How many top lockers should I make? 5 by 50 cm and 1 by 60. It turns out beautifully, right?
And what will be laid out in the closets and how best to do it, no one is interested



Also, our opinions were divided regarding the countertop and the sink. Mom wants a stone with integrated fillets, and dad wants a laminated one and a stainless steel sink with two bowls and a wing.

[Blackout]

Blackout, and the oven over the washing machine will turn out very cumbersome? I now have an oven at chest level, it is extremely convenient. True, above it I still have a closet almost to the ceiling for any little-used rubbish such as a towel, a mold, a waffle iron, a juicer and Co., but this cabinet already greatly burdens the structure. (((But you can somehow link with the upper cabinets .. ...

Well, the cooking can be turned across and under the wall, and the space at the edge as a work surface is considered, too, convenient.

Have your parents tried to put a refrigerator at the entrance? They imagine well how this whopper will stick out in the middle of the kitchen at the entrance, and that 6 people at a round table in this kitchen will not sit down, even if they empty the corner with the refrigerator?
We count .... The kitchen is 2.6 in length. The refrigerator is about 0.65, because it is not placed close to the wall, unless it is a fancy Liebherr or some other advanced model.
To open the refrigerator door, somehow pass between the refrigerator and the table, sit at the table with your back to the refrigerator, you need at least 0.7 m.
From the length of the room remains 1.25 meters.
And a round table for 6 people, as you have drawn in the picture, is just about 1.25 meters in diameter.

And that's it, hello, the table was pressed into the curtains and stuck into the wall with a window.
If there is a smaller table, a round folding table for 4 people, which can be transformed into an oval one, then it will be even longer when unfolded.
You can still squeeze 4 takeoff and landing places out of this kitchen.
And 6 - it will be like in a fairy tale about 10 hats from one sheep skin. You can't walk through the kitchen ...

And we have been living in a new apartment for almost 5 years. We drove into bare concrete. The end of the repair can not be seen. But never got divorced

And 6 - it will be like in a fairy tale about 10 hats from one sheep skin

so I already asked about it.
But you can't sacrifice a room? There would be a lovely kitchen, dining room and three bedrooms. Not well, but chO. Well, do not accommodate 6 people there, if only a stand

Refrigerator Liebher And they moved it to the door, but they were not delighted. But no persuasion is given to move to a warm corner at all.
A full table for 6 people is unrealistic in this kitchen. Now they live together. A small table with the possibility of folding is enough for them.

And a rectangular table will not solve the problem. Because the narrowest rectangular table is 0.6 meters. Less in width is no longer a table, but a bar counter.
Again, subtract the minimum table width from the remaining 1.25 meters, we get 0.65 m.
From these 0.65 minus the battery. And in the best case, on one side of the table it turns out 0.7 m for planting, and on the other - about 0.5. In the aisle of 0.5 meters, even a thin person will not be very comfortable to sit and get out from the table.

But you can't sacrifice a room? There would be a lovely kitchen, dining room and three bedrooms. Not well, but chO. Well, do not accommodate 6 people there, if only a stand

And with the sewage system, they will decide as a question if the room does not in any way interface with the bathroom?
This is a pressure sewer will have to be done, even if it is cut off, put on all the rules of redevelopment and move the kitchen to the room.
There, about how the Khrushchevs re-plan should be done. Combine a room with a kitchen.
Only in khrushchebs between the kitchen and the room, the wall is usually not load-bearing. People successfully demolish this wall, sometimes without any approvals, and get a kitchen-living room.
And they have all the carriers, the opening into the room is easy and simple to do.

Now they live together. A small table with the possibility of folding is enough for them.

I don’t want to draw, I’ll write in words.
And if so. The refrigerator stays where it is. By the window in the corner opposite the entrance. Only turns sideways to the window. Suppose, with a margin for opening the door, it will take 0.8 meters, although a Liebherr, tucked into a corner, needs little space to open the door.
They make the kitchen angular, of variable depth. Along the long wall - all the equipment, along the short bathroom wall - shallow modules, 30-40 cm deep. This is a whole meter of shelves for mom under the casters, by the way. And the ability to hang a TV set on the bathroom wall.
And put a narrow rectangular table 60 cm wide to the refrigerator. Across the kitchen.

[Blackout]

And with the sewage system, they will decide as a question if the room does not in any way interface with the bathroom?

it is enough that the room is in contact with the kitchen. Everything remains in the kitchen, the work surface, everything related to the kitchen. And the table moves into the living room. Whatever one may say, even two are close. Stereotypes need to be revised.

And they have all the carriers, the opening into the room is easy and simple to do.

The loggia is combined with the room, ok. If there was a plan of the apartment, it would be easier. And so everything is on the fingers.
Blackout, send your parents on a cruise either in Russia for a month, or wherever they want, and calmly make repairs. They will come to the finished kitchen and they will like everything. You will see. Consider their wishes, but choose a healthy grain. They will be pleased

If there was a plan of the apartment, it would be easier. And so everything is on the fingers.

Yes, at least a kitchen plan with real dimensions ...
And then on the laid out plan near the window, a wall of 45 cm, and everyone understands that you cannot put a refrigerator in such a wall, the window will close. And then bam! It turns out that the refrigerator in this corner is not covering the window. This means that the size of the pier is larger than on the plan.

The loggia is combined with the room, ok.

And where does the loggia?

it is enough that the room is in contact with the kitchen. Everything remains in the kitchen, the work surface, everything related to the kitchen. And the table moves into the living room. Whatever one may say, even two are close. Stereotypes need to be revised.

Since they do it in Khrushchebs, I wrote about this. The partition between the kitchen and the room is removed, only the working area remains in the kitchen, and the dining room moves to the border between the kitchen and the room, or even into the room. If a corridor leads to the kitchen, then it is also killed by attaching parts to different rooms.
Here, for example (uncle well done, makes furniture with his own hands):


But Blackout is not a crush. And the wall between the room and the kitchen, in her words, is carrying.
Therefore, even an ordinary doorway from the kitchen to the room in it will not be easy to make.

And where does the loggia?

Bearing walls))

it will not be easy to make an opening from the kitchen to the room.

but here and there is a loggia))) break the outer wall and do what is needed without damage to the building.And here is the wall between the kitchen and the room. It is enough to remove part of the wall and it will turn out very nice

Bearing walls))

Not at all necessary, and very often not carrying. In panel houses, for example, the outer walls are most often a sandwich panel: a thin layer of concrete, then insulation (foam, for example), then another thin layer of concrete. So such a pie is simply not capable of carrying anything serious.
And the window-sill block usually does not carry anything at all, except for the window, this part of the wall does not accept the load from the floor slabs.



For example. Panel house, one of the series of the Moscow DSK-1 - P-44K.
We ask Yandex for a floor plan with load-bearing walls, it finds a picture:

See what is written about the walls marked in blue? External hinged panel.
What kind of sandwich is it outside and which walls in this series are load-bearing - you can read on Wikipedia.
And according to this principle, many DSK-ovsky houses were built. 🔗
And the load-bearing walls in this series are inside the building.

In a monolithic house, too, external walls, in addition to windows, can bear no load and are not load-bearing.

Or here's the series 1605, in which Blackout has an apartment. We are looking for a floor plan with carriers, we find a similar one:

The outer walls are not load-bearing, but hinged sandwich panels. All carriers inside.



And this is a trimmed window sill block right after cutting in one of my family's apartments. They cut it off, because the balcony door to the kitchen had to be moved a little.
The photo shows what happens inside the outer walls in panel houses. Well, think for yourself, how can a sandwich made of thin concrete and a greasy layer of foam plastic can keep an impressive amount of several floors higher?

Here is another photo from the construction site of some panel house. Sectional view of the outer panel. Inside there is something like glass wool, and on top of it is a thin layer of trim.

They put more concrete here, but the design is still the same:

A schematic demonstration that rearranging the refrigerator will not greatly increase the number of seats in the Blackout kitchen. There can be no talk of any gatherings for 6 people in such a room.
Maximum - 4, and then it will be cramped.
Please only fit 3 people normally:

A round or rectangular table will not change the situation, only 3 will fit normally.
So the parents must be brought back to earth. Well, and with a plan from someone else's apartment, the dimensions of which do not correspond to reality, it is very imprudent to plan such a kitchen.

With the top row in the project, there are slight difficulties because the hood is 50 or 60, and the base for cooking is 45. And the sink is non-standard, sawn-off. It will be difficult to achieve a clear symmetry of the hood over cooking.
I came up with 3 options for the top row.
Option 1 (from left to right, from the corner with a sink):
Shelf 45 + drying rack 90 + shelf with extractor hood 50 + shelf 60.

The hood is obtained over cooking, but slightly not symmetrical with respect to the oven and cooking.

Option 2.
It is very similar to option 1, the drying is smaller, the shelf for the hood is larger, the hood is even more asymmetric relative to the cooking center:
Shelf 45 + drying 80 + shelf with hood 60 + shelf 60.
or bezel 5 + shelf 40 + shelf with hood 60 + shelf 60.

In general, a small false panel, at least as thick as a piece of chipboard 16 mm in the corner, is very desirable, so that the shelf door in the corner opens more conveniently.

Option 3.
Bezel 1.6-2 cm (piece of chipboard) + shelf 40 + drying 80 + shelf with hood 80 + shelf 40 + bezel 1.6-2 cm.
In short, all the fronts of the upper row are of the same width, any hood, the shelf for the hood is non-standard, the hood is almost symmetrical with respect to the oven and cooking. You can put your mother's favorite shelves with lifts very nicely. It turns out on the sides the same shelves of 40 cm, and in the center - two huge shelves with lifts. And the budget option with swing facades should also look good, besides, it is relatively easy to implement, because 40 facades are found in all manufacturers.



Examples of installing hoods in large shelves:





And there are also 80 cm wide hoods.On the one hand, the idea of ​​installing an 80 cm extractor hood together with a "domino" seems crazy and ridiculous. On the other hand, the shelves next to the stove always get dirty from below over time. And the more the cooker hood is, the less the furniture will get dirty, and the less energy you will have to spend on cleaning.
In large kitchens in private houses, smart people do not hang any shelves near the stove at all.
I very much regret that I cannot in my kitchen not hang shelves at all in the area of ​​the hob. I like kitchens without a top row and corner kitchens without a row above the stove.

[article, all "not allowed" when installing PMM are listed:]

I remembered a few more arguments why a washing machine in the kitchen, especially under the countertop shared with the kitchen, is a very bad decision. And in general, in a small kitchen, a washing machine is an extra object and shit. Blackout advise you to try again to convince your parents that the washing machine should be removed from the kitchen.
1. During installation, the washing machine is level by twisting the legs. It is not very difficult to set a freestanding car according to the level. It is much more difficult to level a machine that is tucked under the tabletop at the place of installation.
2. Pushing the machine under the table top is not difficult, without setting the level, every fool can do it. But removing it from under the countertop when repair is needed is not as easy as it seems. There is no opportunity to "hug" the machine from the sides, there is no opportunity to slightly tilt the machine back, put something like linoleum under the legs, lower and pull it forward, as the masters do with a column of equipment from the machine and dryer installed in a niche.
We'll have to pull the car by the tank.
3. The machine vibrates during operation. A poorly leveled machine (see item 1) can damage furniture. Therefore, the machine is not placed close to the furniture, but small gaps are left.
It turns out, firstly, the extra consumption of precious centimeters and that "beauty" with holes on the sides of the machine. For example, here's how the installation option that Blackout planned would roughly look like:

In addition to this, it can be added that often the front of the machine is not strictly vertical, but in the form of a "sail", and the machine inserted into the middle of the headset can protrude or sink part of the body or control panel relative to the headset.
For example:

4. After washing, it is recommended to leave the machine ajar to dry. A slightly open hatch in the working area, also in the aisles, will interfere with the passage and create traumatic situations (I recently managed to damage my sore knee on the half-open hatch of the washing machine that was sticking out on the way in the bathroom. a hatch ajar on the way. I kicked into it with my knee! and for an indefinite period of time is now limited in movement, I sit at home at the computer and miss).
In the corner, as it was suggested, the slightly opened hatch of the car does not greatly interfere and the gaps between the machine and the furniture are not in plain sight. And if the typewriter will be given out in some parts relative to the furniture, then at least not in the middle of the headset.
However, in this version, the machine is more difficult to connect to the sewer, it is very, very likely that for this you will have to make a horizontal strobe with a slope in the supporting wall.
And this is also not very good. The strobe should not be more than 2.5 cm deep and 2 cm wide. 🔗 And even under the hose from the washing machine (diameter 2.7 cm usually) you need a larger strobe, not to mention laying 32 pipes to the car.
You can, of course, dance with a tambourine, put furniture and equipment with a gap from the wall, then have sex with building up the countertop, and slit the hose only partially, but these are additional hemorrhoids.

And I also got confused by the technically correct connection of the PMM. This is already very interesting to me, because it concerns directly my kitchen, and not the entertainment of drawing someone else's.
I started reading articles - I was very upset. Now I don’t know what to do with PMM in my kitchen.
Maybe not put at all, there are a lot of "impossible" if you try to comply with everything and at the same time make the kitchen more or less ergonomic, so the PMM is generally impossible to put in my kitchen.
About ergonomics, I have long been aware that it is better to put PMM in one line with the sink, even better - through a module. Many housewives call the location of the PMM at an angle to the sink inconvenient.
Such technical nuances that the built-in PMM is placed between the modules, and that when installing the PMM at the end of the kitchen, troubles with a countertop support appear, so it is not advised to put it at the end of the kitchen - I was also aware of this.
But I did not know about the fact that the PMM is also not recommended to be placed next to the oven and stove, and that manufacturers require the PMM to be installed at a distance of 40 cm from the oven. And we have a PMM in one apartment. And in the new apartment, too, next to the oven, the PMM was going to be installed. She will not fit in there in a different way, only next to the oven.
I didn’t know yet that the PMM is not recommended to put at the end of the headset also because the machine must be fixed to the furniture on both sides, and when installed at the end, the headset can be fixed only on one side.
Here article, all "not allowed" when installing PMM are listed:
🔗

Installation rules from the manufacturer

Manufacturer requirements:
There must be a gap between the dishwasher and other surfaces - you must not put the device close to other objects.
The minimum technological gap is 40 cm.
The built-in dishwasher must not be placed in the outer drawer of the headset.
You cannot install the PMM under the sink.
Do not place the hob, even if it is with a heat-insulating substrate, over a dishwasher.
Moreover, it is not recommended to place the dishwasher under or close to an appliance that emits heat. The last rule directly answers the question posed. Do not place the PMM and the oven closer than 40 cm from each other. This standard was established by German manufacturers, who calculated it taking into account all factors.
If the consumer violates the norms of the technological gap, then you can not count on warranty service - the craftsmen will refuse free repairs in the event of a breakdown.
Manufacturers also recommend fixing the dishwasher on both sides. For this, for example, you can use the adjacent drawers of the headset.
In a small kitchen, somewhere in Khrushchev, it is very difficult to comply with the manufacturers' norms regarding the installation of household appliances.
If the kitchen is cramped, not allowing compliance with the standards, there are two options: Refuse to install the PMM. Break the rules by placing the dishwasher and the stove closer than the manufacturer has set. In addition to the loss of warranty, the proximity of the PMM and the oven threatens with serious breakdowns - their risk increases 1.5 times ...

But about the fact that the PMM is also not recommended to be placed next to the oven and stove,
It is not recommended to put PMM at the end of the headset also because the machine must be fixed to the furniture on both sides, and when installed at the end of the headset, it can be fixed only on one side.

Maybe that's not allowed, but for many years we had a built-in PMM next to the stove, no problems. The main thing is that the sidewall of the slab does not get very hot. We made a sidewall from chipboard to support the tabletop (it was additionally fixed to the wall) .. It turned out a niche for the dishwasher, it stood up perfectly, fixed on both sides with self-tapping screws (came in the installation kit to the machine). This design has stood without problems for over 10 years. Now they took it apart with difficulty, decided to change the kitchen, otherwise it would have stood still.

And then on the laid out plan near the window, a wall of 45 cm, and everyone understands that you cannot put a refrigerator in such a wall, the window will close. And then bam! It turns out that the refrigerator in this corner is not covering the window. This means that the size of the pier is larger than on the plan.

I meant that before, before the repair, when the refrigerator stood by the window, it did not close the window.

I meant that before, before the repair, when the refrigerator stood by the window, it did not close the window.

You are a normal plan with dimensions.
If, before the repair, the refrigerator did not close the window while standing in the corner, which I marked with a red daw on the last drawings, it is unlikely that the angle will change dramatically after the repair. There is not 45 cm, as indicated on the plan you laid out. Certainly not less than 60 ...
And since that wall is larger, then you can put something there. The oven, for example, is the same .... Or a shallow column for dishes and appliances.
Another argument that your original plan won't work.
Let's say you manage to put the PMM between the sink and the refrigerator. Suppose the rest of the dimensions on the plan were also incorrect and there are missing centimeters under the PMM in this place.
Next, you planned to put a corner underframe under the sink with a length of 1050 mm. With a facade of 40 cm, I guess. And then the washing machine ...
And at the washer, the hatch relative to the furniture will protrude. If you do not make a fat wide spacer between the sink and the PMM, your PMM door may not open at all, it will stick into the washer hatch. But there is no place for fat wide spacers between the refrigerator and the sink, as I understand it.
And push the washer deeper under the counter so that it does not stick out - it will be inconvenient to use the washer control panel, display, and the powder drawer will be partially covered by the counter.
Well, it will also turn out scary - just behind the sink there is a failure with a washing machine.
And closing a car with a facade that is not intended for full installation in such a place is also not the case ...




This photo is almost your case, take a closer look at it.

Between the refrigerator and the sink there is some kind of table, it looks like it has drawers. The car is not flush with the furniture, it protrudes. There is a false panel between the table with drawers and the sink.
"spacer" on the corner of the corner set, which are made so that the drawers and doors open normally.
And it's not a fact that they have these drawers fully extendable and do not stick into the car or its hatch when fully extended. Here you can get the same thing with the PMM door that they have with the drawers, if you put the PMM between the refrigerator and the sink, and put the washer immediately after washing.

This photo is almost your case, take a closer look at it

With such a setting of the washing machine between the sink and the stove, directly under the table-cooking zone, it is constantly knocking your feet on the bottom panel of the washing machine, which is not ice during operation. Moreover, you will have to stand in front of the washing machine almost constantly, from breakfast to dinner. You will cut off your legs, and the washing machine at the same time.
And the second point - the washing machine vibrates strongly during spinning, which is also not ice under the work table.

Have you noticed why and why a certain depression is made at the work tables-cabinets at the bottom of the floor? Just for the convenience of standing at the tables, when the leg goes under the table a little. So it's more convenient to stand, and the walls of the cabinets do not interfere with this.

And in the photo, the washer also stands for a common line of cabinets ...

With this arrangement of the sink, the refrigerator will interfere with work, the left hand will be constantly bent at the elbow, and there is no room for action.

So I’m talking about the same thing ... If you put the machine like this, it will be inconvenient, and the kitchen will not have a fountain (although there is no fountain by definition, but this is not a reason to plan the whole kitchen in general ugly). If Blackout's parents cannot be convinced that it is better to remove the car from the kitchen, then the place where it will least of all interfere and disfigure the furniture composition is at the end of the kitchen, in the corner by the window.
By the way, I asked the plumbers if it was possible, with the plan that I proposed, to throw the drain hose from the car on the floor, behind the oven and PMM. They answered that it is undesirable to do so, but it is possible.

you will have to stand in front of the washing machine almost constantly, from breakfast to dinner.

I agree 150%. In a couple of days we will also get a sore back.
To make it more convenient, I abandoned the skirting board on the furniture, left the furniture on its legs. And it is convenient to remove the dust, and the legs are not bruised

To make it more convenient, I abandoned the skirting board on the furniture, left the furniture on its legs.

* in the voice of Matroskin * Scatter your seats! In the lower tier, that is, in the basement, low drawers are made for lids, tools or something else rarely used.
If the base is deepened by 7-10 cm, relative to the facade, then it does not interfere with standing close to the cabinets. And you don't have to clean up the dust.

Scatter your seats!

my legs are dearer to me ... than places. Yes, and bend over there, always look for something in these boxes ...
I have three universal covers, the rest are Ftopku (they lie somewhere in the cellar in a box)

And you don't have to clean up the dust.

if you are wondering, then there is a dusty there too, you don't see the current))))

Yes, and bend over there, always look for something in these boxes ...

And what to look for there - a gas wrench, a screwdriver, boxes with bolts and shooters are laid out in one row, push it out and take it, especially since they are rarely needed, but they take up space. A saw for metal, a hacksaw, circles from a grinder and other files must be stored somewhere, here it is under the kitchen. No, if there are a lot of free square meters, full of storage rooms or there is a garage, tady is another matter.

it must be stored somewhere, here it is under the kitchen.

I have a different approach.
Keep where it is difficult to reach. In the upper cabinets.

With this arrangement of the sink, the refrigerator will interfere with work, the left hand will be constantly bent at the elbow, and there is no room for action.

As in the photo, nothing really happens if this table is about 45-50 cm wide. The size of the module is not clear from the photo.
And in old houses, unfortunately, there is no time for ergonomics ...
Have you seen pictures in the subject, how Blackout's kitchen is now arranged? The 60th or 50th sink is in the corner, there is a stove right behind it, next to the PMM 45 stove. Hell, you can shoot. The right hand at the sink is clamped by a wall, splashes are likely to fall on the stove. If there is a four-thread on the stove, then when they work at the sink, the owners will surely hit the dishes on the stove with their elbows. There is nowhere to cut bread at all, either on the dining table, or on the PMM.

To make it more convenient, I abandoned the skirting board on the furniture, left the furniture on its legs. And it is convenient to remove the dust, and the legs are not bruised

And I refused the base, but over time I didn't like this decision.
Fashionable suspended "floating kitchen" without legs and plinth 🔗 I couldn't do it myself. Yes, and there was no such thing at the time when I ordered it, they have recently begun to come into fashion, and only owners of very large apartments and private houses can afford a suspended kitchen. And we have small apartments in panels. No hovering furniture ....
I just made a kitchen with chrome legs. From floor to bottom of tables 9.5 cm. When I was younger, it was not hard for me to bend down and get on all fours to clean the floor under my baseless kitchen. And I liked that it was without a plinth and that it was comfortable to stand in front of the tables in the working area, you couldn’t knock your feet into the plinth.
And over time it became difficult ... And now I also injured my knee, so I can’t squat down, and even more so, I can’t get up on all fours. I use a mop where I get it. And where I can't get it - under the tables now srach.

And where I can't get it - under the tables now srach

well, everyone solves such issues independently. A lady comes to me and cleans up. It's more convenient for us

Yes, I feel that if I don't get better, I will have to hire some young Uzbek woman to periodically rake out the dirt from under my kitchen, which I cannot remove because of the injury.

[renard]

renard, you can try to get by with Vileda)

My search engine refuses to go. Who is Vileda?

And over time it became difficult ... And now I also injured my knee, so I can’t squat down, and even more so, I can’t get up on all fours. I use a mop where I get it. And where I can't get it - under the tables now srach.

And also, under low furniture, animals roll up their toys / balls, they also have to "squirm" behind them. And that's why I also prefer furniture close to the floor.

Not everyone has animals.I have not. I have an allergy to animals.
And when the legs and back are healthy, then I do not care that the animal rolled something under the furniture. You take a stick, kneel down and take it out ...

You take a stick, kneel down and take it out ...

... a huge bundle of wool, dried nibbles, etc.

And finally. But in high kitchen fashion, there is a trendy kitchen with a suspended bottom row. And so that even with illumination from below.
This video, however, did some morons. Made expensively, richly, but inconvenient. The push facades in the bottom row were installed (honest guys do not put this in the bottom row, the bottom row had to be done with the handles milled to the end, and the push ones will open from careless touching with a foot or belly), and the sink was inconveniently placed. But the vidos trend reflects, yeah.

Although it is unlikely that people who can afford such furniture sit on a bread maker ... Such a kitchen should also be accompanied by an au pair. And here all are their own helpers.

And so that even with illumination from below.

Tyuyu, the illumination is not difficult to vpendyurit not even on the suspended one, but if the base is painted with black paint, then there will be the same suspended effect. Or revet it (base) with mirrored panels (cheap trimmings), it will also look interesting.