Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

[Hello]

Hello! Are you accepting new ones? Girls (sorry, boys!), This is the first topic that I read on this forum. I found what I was looking for for a long time - leaven for bread. Can you please tell me if yeast is no longer needed when using this leaven? If used in CP, then how to convert the ratio of dry yeast (which are indicated in recipes for CP) into a leaven. Ie. how much starter culture replaces, for example, 1 hour. l. "fast" dry yeast. It is possible, of course, that the answers to these questions are already somewhere, but it is still very difficult to navigate, I have not looked around yet.

[Alexa13]

Alexa13, if you are going to bake in HP as part of the usual program, then I would not recommend completely abandoning yeast. It is enough to reduce their number (for example, 5 g is enough alive). And the amount of sourdough can vary from 50 g to 400 g (the speed of bread rise, sourness, porosity, etc. will depend on this)

If you are going to combine kneading - proofing - baking, then it is possible to completely eliminate yeast, but this will require a certain skill.

You can read all about leavens here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=172.0

Thank you so much! I will slowly study everything.

I don't know who to ask exactly, but maybe someone will respond: take 100g. flour and 100g. water? I kneaded, barely turned a spoon. Is that how it should be? Or do you just need the same amount of water and flour? Help...

[Lubastik24]

Lubastik24 , I took it as in the original recipe, i.e. 100 g of water. Weighed and was surprised that 100 ml is not quite 100 g, it was also thick

[rinishek]

rinishek Did it work? I'm tormented - there and further in the recipe 1: 1 proportion ... what to do?

[Lubastik24]

Lubastik24 1: 1 by grams (not by volume) The leaven should be thick (rye flour is more hygroscopic than wheat flour). When the leaven is ready, it will liquefy.

[kava]

kava Thank you, otherwise I was fussing ...
I add, after a while: I baked it. The way I did it the first time - I didn't know how exactly to knead with sourdough, how many proofs and kneading, it broke the roof a little - but this is definitely from a tight bun, I didn't add water, I don't like slurry under the bun. The recipe is already proven, wheat-rye. But the taste and structure of the crumb were very pleased! The color of the bread, of course, is not that standard grayish, I photographed in the evening, I did not edit the photo.

The following question popped up - is it enough to refresh the leaven once before the next baking, or is it better three? Isn't she weak after one time? Read the information, now a mess in my head. Thank you in advance!

[Viki]

Viki
So I got my hands on this leaven. It turned out so active. not expected. what happens.
Today I baked the first bread on it with premium and 1 grade wheat flour, added a pinch of caraway and coriander, yes, and added only 5 grams of yeast. The bread turned out, in my opinion, successful, with a good convex roof, with good crumb and a little sourness, very pleasant and very soft. I wanted to try just this kind of bread. Now I have no doubt that wheat-rye will be even more beautiful.
In general, thank you very much!

Well, here I am with another bread, wheat-rye (like Darnitsky), although they are like twin brothers with yesterday

My bread stood a little. a crack began to form on top, turned on baking early.
I added only 5 grams of yeast, the bread turned out to the edge of the bucket, there is a good sourness and I really liked the aroma.
The leaven turned out to be so active. I forgot to put the yeast first (I bake it all the time on cold dough), I remembered after half an hour that there was no yeast, I added it, and the dough was already so alive from the leaven. I was surprised!

Send bread even to the exhibition - it's beautiful. The photo shows that the crumb is moderately elastic. Lena, how does it not crumble in a day or two? But share your impressions - do bread differ in cold dough and sourdough?
rye sourdough in general is so vivid. for many starter cultures, the initial stage of growing - on rye flour - is the most "correct" one. In general, starters can be used without yeast.

[Irochka]

Irochka, tomorrow I'll see how the bread crumbles. Today the first white was cut perfectly. Next time I will try to bake without yeast. While I was not ready and doubting for this.

[Elenka69]

Elenka69, This is what you made me happy! Well this is what handsome men you get! Delight!
Don't forget to show them to us. And what is this "not ready and doubting"? There should be no doubt about it! The main thing is what? See the target and ignore the obstacles!

[Viki]

Viki
Thank you very much for your support!
I really liked this leaven. Especially because it is problem-free, namely, it turned out easily, does not be capricious and does not depend on the temperature in the room. (Or rather, in the refrigerator)
I'll find some time and cook some more bread in the oven.
By the way, this bread still crumbles less than cold dough.

[Viki]

Viki
does not depend on the temperature in the room. (or rather in the refrigerator)

And here are the pipes! At temperatures above 4 -5 degrees, it accumulates acetic acid after a week. I keep it at 3 * C and everything is in order, only for a month (as I expected) I miss it.
Sometimes I feed a spoon - two 50 grams each. flour and water, and after 3 - 4 hours I add another 50 each. I think she likes it so much.

[Viki]

Viki
Thanks for the clarification!
I went and looked at what temperature was set in the refrigerator, also +3. I fed her again (it became a little, quickly dispersed) as you wrote, 100 g of water and flour and for 12 hours at room. so-re left. In the morning I sent it back to the cold.

I baked sourdough bread in the oven. Here he is...

Something porosity in it is too small. Yes?! Of course, it tastes and smells like bread from a different dough, unlike bakery.

Something porosity in it is too small. Yes?!

Excellent porosity, even.
If you need more porosity, the dough should be wetter, the kneading is shorter and baked goods without a mold and with steam.

[Viki]

Viki,
Thank you very much for your helpful advice! Will work!

Well, right on the holes, the white light converged like a wedge
excellent porosity! bread!

Well, right on the holes, the white light converged like a wedge
excellent porosity! bread!

Thank you, otherwise I'm in doubts.

And here is my wheat-rye brewed sourdough. I have never tasted bread tastier! Aroma, sourness, crumb structure, crust - everything is super! It's worth keeping this leaven for his sake alone!
Although there were flaws with the distance. I baked it in a larger shape than it was defrosted and it turned out to be rather low. And the rest

it is true that they are being lowered. Although not critical, it was not a flat cake, but good bread. But this case is completely fixable.
1.folding the dough - helps 100%
2.gluten in the dough
3. a pinch of ascorbic acid in flour - and that's it!
you will see, these small technical and chemical methods will lead to a remarkable result.

Thank you!

Hello! You write that rye custard can be made with this leaven. Could you give a recipe? Does it come without yeast? Thank you

Here's the recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=787.0

[Viki]

Viki, I am with another gratitude for your sourdough super ideas
I am not happy with the results yet
what is surprising to me, the structure of the pulp, like that of white bread turned out

[luchok]

I am absolutely delighted - very tasty, fluffy ...

luchok, I believe! I am delighted with the pictures! Super fluffiness is visible to the naked eye! Bravo!!!

[Viki]

Viki Thanks a lot for this starter recipe. Everything worked out great. And this, I must say, is not the first one that I tried to raise. No problem. And here are breads only on sourdough (without yeast) from AXIOMA fragrant in the oven. I just baked it in a slow cooker:

I put a plus sign!

[Rusya]

Well done, Rusya! Bravo!
Nice bread turned out! Good luck in mastering this leaven and bread on it. And AXIOMA's recipes deserve attention. Whatever bread is - a masterpiece and more!

[Viki]

Viki, I have a question for you ...
I left the sourdough fed for baking overnight (for 9 hours), and so, during this time it rose and settled (seen on the trail on the container), but remained enlarged 4-5 times.
This is normal? Maybe I shouldn't leave her unattended, that is, don't let her go down?

I make this leaven for the second time. This time I got it much more active!
Here is the first custard bread on it, though "tanned" on top and cut it still lukewarm. It turned out to be very soft and light, which is not very typical for custard bread. The slice is on the 4th day, and is still soft, like fresh.

This time I got it much more active!

this is because it grew up on the growing moon!

this is because it grew up on the growing moon!

Oh how !!!

, I myself was personally convinced that these are not just astrological troubles. My Frenchwoman last year was rather weak - I grew her so spontaneously ("but I'll go and get myself a sourdough!"), And this year grape - according to all the rules - on the growing moon on an auspicious day - everything is as expected!
(Tanyusha-Dachnitsa told me why she bows low to her!)

this is because it grew up on the growing moon!

And I did not look at the starry sky. I will know now.
It's just that the impatience is ripe - to scratch your hands ...
It turns out astrology works - I was convinced myself!

[Viki]

Viki, I have a question for you ...
I left the sourdough fed for baking overnight (for 9 hours), and so, during this time it rose and settled (seen on the trail on the container), but remained enlarged 4-5 times.
This is normal? Maybe I shouldn't leave her unattended, that is, don't let her go down?

It all depends on what kind of acidity you want to achieve in the bread.
If I want to have a bright sourness in bread, then I catch the moment of falling off.
And if I want a subtle sourness, then I take a spoon - two sourdoughs and divide the feeding into three parts, I give one third at once and the remaining two thirds after 3 - 4 hours, after another 3 - 4 hours (depending on the temperature in the kitchen) I knead on it dough.
Custard with your firstborn! It turned out handsome!
I love this crumb structure.

[Viki]

Thank you so much, Viki!
I'll try this feeding too.

I can not help but show breads on this sourdough fed with whole grain rye flour from TM Zhmenka. It turned out so airy! This is in HP, and in the oven it would be even more beautiful.

[Viki]

Viki, and I have a question for you.
How many times can I renew the starter culture from the original one?
I have probably resumed it from the original 4 times already. I don't know if I explained myself clearly. I mean this stage.

When the shelf life of the "semi-finished product" is running out, we take 1 tbsp. l., add 100 gr. water and 100 gr. rye flour, mix and after 12 hours put it in the refrigerator for storage.

I wonder if she will be reborn?
It is good for smell and rise so far.

I wonder if she will be reborn?
It is good for smell and rise so far.

You know, as they say here in Odessa: oh, I beg you ...
The smell and rise is good, then everything is good. All you do is maintain the wild yeast by feeding it.
It will become "not good", it will not be difficult to create a new one. It is almost impossible for her to stray towards the predominance of some harmful bacteria, there is nothing seditious in her, only water, flour and wild yeast.
And your bread is a sheer provocation! I could not live peacefully after such beauty, until I found and bought whole grain flour from TM Zhmenka. I am very satisfied with the quality! Thank you!

[Viki]

Viki, thank you!
I asked this because I always doubt. And when everything is very good, it is also alarming.

If I like something and it really is good, then I will advertise until others are tempted. The people in my branch are already tempted by this leaven.
And the flour is really good!

[Viki,]

Viki,
I put the "semi-finished product" just 10 hours ago, and already at a loss what to do next! Although it happened in the midst of the old moon, my starter turned out to be too playful. The temperature in the kitchen is 23-25 ​​* C, the ingredients were weighed according to the recipe, and, most likely, both yeast and flour are very strong. I'm afraid that at such a speed, after the remaining 38 hours, a dirty, sour puddle will remain of the whole venture (Please advise how I should take care of my accelerator further so that she grows up healthy

Photo 9 hours after the start of the process - side and top view



P.S. Update 3 hours later: after standing this time in a cool place (+ 17 * C), of course, it slowed down, but it had already grown to the 400 ml mark - this is in the first 13 hours .... And how did I not immediately notice that the kitchen was too hot

Please advise how to take care of my accelerator further so that she grows up healthy

Calm, the main thing is calm!
In my kitchen, 25 * C is the norm in winter and summer. And everything is all right.
Stir it well with a fork and leave without worrying about anything. This yeast is raging there, now wild ones will flock to the noise and take their place.
And as for the sour puddle, we just need one spoon from it.
It cannot rise above 400, it is too wet. Cover it with cheesecloth or a lid with holes so that wild yeast can fly in.
Everything will be fine!!!

[Viki,]

Viki,

Thanks for the answer. I kept my pupil at 17 * almost 12 hours before I read your answer. In such conditions, she did not add at all in height, but now, according to your instructions, I will stir her up with a fork and return to warmth

stir it up with a fork and get warm again

That's right.
Look at the time that we have at the time of feeding, then we feed.
Everything will be fine!

I also put in the leaven the day before yesterday. Today I fed. Tomorrow morning it will be necessary to throw out the unnecessary, sorry ??? Maybe try to use it? Nobody dared?

Nobody dared?

I do not advise. There's a lot of acetic acid and ... alcohol

Very sorry. I have a sourdough covered with gauze in several layers. So the midges flew on her. So I will do everything according to the recipe. And no amateur performance

Well, I fed her. 2 hours have passed, in a liter can it has risen to the level of 800g., What to do next?

what to do next?

Graph on the first page. Stick strictly!
Stirring is allowed.

[Viki,]

Viki, , Hello! And help me with advice, please!
I put in the leaven, after a day it fermented well, fed it, according to the schedule, now after two days it stratified - there is a violent foam on top, and the liquid bounced from the bottom. I mixed it well, fed it again, but I don't like the smell at all. Not that it would be completely bad, not very tasty, or something. I'd better throw it away right away so that no one would suffer, neither me, nor she?