Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

[Arka]

Arka

from the 1st Art. spoon everything is clear, but where else?

I baked pancakes from the rest, added a little wheat flour, eggs, salt, sugar to taste, if necessary liquid. Pancakes made from rye flour are not nearly worse than from wheat.
And she didn't throw anything away. True, I don't know how long your leaven has stood, maybe it has already gone rancid, you try it.
I still wash my hair with rye flour (the soap itself), and who prevents us from washing our hair with leaven?

Basja,
good suggestions, only the deed has already been done
The next generation grows on 1 spoon (the photo session was posted earlier), and the rest has already flowed under the bridge ...

Fine! We bring the process to the end, put half and half in the cold. The colder the better. Of course, within reasonable limits.
At me at +3 she was fine, and at a friend's at +6 she had to feed as "eternal" at least once a week.

[Viki]

put half and half in the cold

Viki, glad to hear from you again!
Is it necessary to half? And when will we bring it to the end? Strictly in time or in the growth of the leaven?
Another question, what do you think, 5^aboutWill it fit? I have 5 on the bottom shelf, 12-13 on the top. I'm afraid if you reduce it, then it will not work for the "eternal".

Strictly in time and temperature, only in this way the result will be predictable. Half is not necessary, but why store 400 grams, if all the same it is not realistic to use them all. So I "threw" 200 gr. into bread. And the sourdough in the basin is more spacious.
And 5 * C will suit both her and "eternal", acid will not accumulate so quickly.

So I "threw" 200 gr. into bread. And the sourdough in the basin is more spacious.

In theory, I can bake (knead) the bread in half tonight, right?
I really like black, if possible without wheat.
If it's not difficult for you, tell me the recipe for this sourdough

[VIKI]

VIKI,
HALF-OUNDRA !!! They called from home, the leaven began to break free from a liter can! It smells like dough. Maybe the girl is ripe? It's warm at home, today it's +26.
What to do? Mix? Will not live to see the evening, it will surely collapse! Or run away, look for her later ...

[VIKI]

VIKI,
HALF-OUNDRA !!!

What's our plan there? Oops, so she's ready!
And active, and the smell is good.
It can be fed and placed in the cold, after 1 to 3 hours after feeding. Or you can feed it and leave it warm if you plan to bake bread.

And it turned out to knead the bread in half
at one's own risk
without your wondrous guidance
I wonder how long it will take to raise the dough? Or was it all in vain?

And the second half, after being disturbed, taking a part, settled, was stirred and already in 2.5 rubles. increased. This is agility !!!
Unfortunately, the paparazzi did not have time to film how she made an escape

And the second half, after being disturbed, taking a part, settled, was stirred and already in 2.5 rubles. increased. This is agility !!!

Aha, someone complained: "my leaven does not grow", now catch up!

Okay, tease ...
Better tell me, is there a chance for bread?
And yet, to feed the second grown-up in the cold? or straight into the cold? (this is in me laziness woke up, probably)

is there a chance for bread?
to feed the grown-up and in the cold? or straight into the cold? (this is in me laziness woke up, probably)

There is every chance! And any recipe will suit her, which is on rye sourdough. How many of them we have ...
I would feed it so that how much sourdough - the same amount of flour and water and left for an hour, then let it ripen in the refrigerator. But it would take two hours to get warm enough.

[Arka]

Arka

and the rest has already flowed under the bridge ...

oh, it's a pity that they threw it away, and you can also bake wonderful Belgian waffles with sourdough

[Arka]

Arka oh, it's a pity that they threw it away, and you can also bake wonderful Belgian waffles with sourdough

I still have "eternal" ripening in the refrigerator 1.5 liters
so there will be where to roam

And here is the 1st bread with this sourdough, baked at night. The cracks are my inept cuts

sorry for the quality of the pictures

It rose a little, with good acidity, not a gram of yeast (4 parts rye flour, 1 part wheat flour), added malt, caraway seeds and coriander, instead of water - porter.

and you can also bake wonderful Belgian waffles with sourdough

Basja,
Great!
Link to recipe? Something I climbed and exactly on sourdough I didn't find it, but it's a little scary to experiment

[Arka]

Arka, here you can read 🔗... Proven recipes.

Basja, thanks!
Even smelled of waffles
and where can you ask questions about these recipes?

On our website, look there is a section using "excess leaven" is very useful.https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=9332.10... And here is a lot of recipes https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...tion=com_smf&topic=1488.0... I think in one of these topics you can ask questions. In principle, you can ask Lyudmila a question in her magazine, perhaps she will answer.

[wall]

wallThanks for the tip on storing the leaven. Please share information, how much overfed sourdough do you use in plain and French bread (you bake in KhP)? Something I have such beautiful bread as you do not work out, the roof in the bread turns out to be wavy. Well, I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong. Maybe with your help it will work out.

[Viki]

Viki Tell me, is it possible to use your leaven for baking Borodino bread?

[Viki]

Viki Tell me, is it possible to use your leaven for baking Borodino bread?

Of course. I baked GOST Borodinsky on it. She did an excellent job.

Thank you

On it, she also started half-leaven and kvass for Darnitsky.

Viki, Thank you very much for the recipes and for your patience.
My first leaven is almost ripe. Thanks to you it turned out the first time.
Tomorrow part of it will go for bread (I want to try Borodinsky in accordance with GOST), a little bit for a face mask, part for kvass, I bought red fermented malt.
Copied a million recipes and, of course, got confused.
You wrote about malt: you need to brew and insist - right? I would like a tasty, not sour and aromatic kvass.
But the recipe for leavened kvass per liter or three liters of water?
And another question - is semi-kvass a young (first) kvass?

[Drop]

But the recipe for leavened kvass per liter or three liters of water?
And another question - is semi-kvass a young (first) kvass?

DropHow glad I am that you succeeded! Hurrah!
In the topic about kvass, I had about three liters.
But where half-leaven and kvass are about preparing sourdough for Darnitsa bread. I take a spoonful of the sourdough and do not feed it right away, but divide the necessary feeding into three parts, first I give one third, and after 3 - 4 hours the remaining two thirds. This process is called semi-kvass and then kvass. I am sorry if I misled you.

Thank you, I went back to the topic about kvass.

I want to thank Viki for this recipe! All novice starters should probably start with it! Written superb, no questions arose. The leaven came out the first time, in contrast to the eternal one, with which I am still on YOU. The taste of real Darnitsa bread Only tastier and more aromatic, the bread for the 4th day is as fresh and soft as on the first, the crumb, as my daughter said, is springy, in short, this is what I was looking for! The result can be said to be stable. The roof blew up slightly, I can't understand why. Here is the recipe by which I made, someone's altered for myself baking in Mula 5004..
300 gr sourdough
150 g rye
250 g of wheat premium (I did not like the taste on the first grade)
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
250 ml water
yeast added just on the bottom of a measuring teaspoon, about 1/8
1 tsp salt
0.5 tsp malt for color and aroma
Program 5 French bun time 3.40 weight 750 g light crust.
I tried to turn off and add time to the rise for about an hour and a half, but the result was not impressive, the crumb turned out to be slightly damp, although it is clear that everything is baked, here are the remains of a loaf ... and how it goes with salt and rustic fragrant sunflower oil mmmmm!

Shl, I baked this recipe for eternal, the roof fell through, but I wrote about this in the relevant topic.

Viki, thanks!
your starter culture grows, does not grow moldy
I will bake tonight

the only thing - I fed it in the morning, and an hour later the leaven had already risen to the edges of a liter jar - what does that mean? already the peak? or still let it stand until evening?

and how much sourdough should I put on 1 loaf, if I do not bake once a week? )
and before you put it in a bucket - you need to stir it so that the foam slightly falls off?
p.s. in general - by the evening the sourdough has fallen by 25 percent, in a bucket I put 200 g, 400 g of rye flour, 400 water, salt, sugar and malt.
something ugly baked, right now it is maturing in a towel))

here it is, it's impossible))

I put it in a bucket 200 g, 400 g of rye flour, 400 water, salt, sugar and malt.

If 500 gr. take 500 g of water. flour, then neither bake nor eat it is almost impossible.
We have so many proven recipes, why don't you start with them?

perhaps, but this recipe was given to me by a forum woman who successfully baked bread, and it flaunts in a branch about eternal leaven
eh

[Lenka_minsk]

perhaps, but this recipe was given to me by a forum woman who successfully baked bread, and it flaunts in a branch about eternal leaven
eh

I confirm, this is according to my recipe tested in HP. Everything is baked normally. The proportions of water and peeled rye flour are almost always 1: 1 (I buy Peeled Rye "Stolichnaya Mill", it looks like this 🔗). Judging by the way I make bread (with cracks), there is even a little water on my flour, but I did not try to add it. I suppose it’s either the leaven, whose strong period has been skipped, or the batch. It is necessary to carefully control the kneading, if necessary add flour (after all, flour is different), and if at the end of the kneading, the dough turns out to be reared, I just smooth it with a wet hand. Or maybe there was not enough time for proofing, it is very warm in my apartment.
Lenka_minsk, it's a pity that it didn't work out. By the way, does everything taste bad too, or just outwardly? We can try to do everything synchronously. I can drop my phone in a personal, tonight I will just do rye.

P.S. I remembered taking the basis for the recipe for my first sourdough bread here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=9345.0
I baked it, only without Agram and yeast, but with rye sourdough, and I used the program as in this recipe. Everything worked out the first time.

[Arka]

I buy Peeled Rye "Stolichnaya Mill", it looks like this .... I suppose that the matter is either in the leaven, whose strong period has been missed, or in the batch. It is necessary to carefully control the kneading, add flour if necessary ...
Does it taste bad too, or only outwardly?

I made from Finnish rye wholemeal flour, my husband brought it from St. Petersburg, and I found it through this site) here 🔗, maybe we should have taken our CM?
I controlled the batch for 15 minutes) I added flour, but doubts immediately came to me) the ball did not roll, as it usually rolls. During the ascent according to the program, he did not rise, during baking he slightly rose.
it is impossible to eat, the crumb just sticks to the teeth like resin))
I also think about leaven
Arka, thank you very much for your concern) today I'm not ready to bake, I didn't feed the leaven)
how I get together - I will contact you

so still the peak can be earlier than 7-12 hours?
the impression is that my peak is in 1-2 hours, after feeding the last was

[in volume]

so still the peak can be earlier than 7-12 hours?
the impression is that my peak is in 1-2 hours, after feeding the last was

The most suitable sourdough for kneading into bread is the one that has grown in volume after feeding twice.
Thus, she still has the potential for further growth and she picks up bread quite easily. The fallen leaven is no longer active.
Lenka_minsk, try putting the starter in "fit"
And also let the kneaded dough stand in a warm place, for example, by the battery or heated up to max 40^about and the oven turned off (periodically heat it up if it has cooled down), so that you can see when the dough "swells" and begins to grow.
And if you get a spatula after kneading, then you can turn on / off the heating on "Gluten-free" in the HP and watch when there is enough.
Alternatively, you can use a long proofing in the cold (10-15^about), and then warm before baking.
Good luck to you! If anything - write in a personal contact, I can call.

Lenka_minsk, I also had such nonsense. The leaven, though "eternal", doubled in a couple of hours, I decided to withstand it for at least 6-7 hours. By that time, she had already begun to fall off. I did about the same as yours. from which I concluded that it should be used as soon as it doubled.

yesterday I decided to try my luck again
made according to the recipe and the plan in the photo from Arka, thank you very much !!!
the peak of the leaven came at 24.00))

and here it is, the result of my night suffering:









there are flaws, but! delicious and everything worked out !!!

Eco turned him around!
I think, while the leaven is young, it is necessary to let it stand for a longer time, let it grow more, maybe an additional min. 30-40.
It's good that it turned out deliciously!
When the leaven gets stronger, all processes will go faster. Good luck, Lenka_minsk, and Happy New Year!

Thank you! Mutually!
I also thought about extra time
I will experiment further

I read a bunch of topics about sourdoughs and here's the conclusion that people write completely different things! Someone writes to use the leaven after doubling for 6 hours, another writes, take the hungry leaven, so that it does not sour, one writes, I take the leaven directly from the refrigerator, the next one writes, take it out and let it warm up! did not copy all these contradictory statements, but how to work with the leaven is still not clear (((some scattered puzzles in my head and I just can't put them into a picture

I read a bunch of topics about sourdoughs and here's the conclusion that people write completely different things!

most likely you have read many topics about DIFFERENT leavens. I will try to explain (as I understand of course), if I am wrong somewhere, maybe Vicky or other sourdough girls will correct me

The fact is that different starters are fed in different ways and are used and prepared for baking, well, they are prepared in different ways.

Let's say the main things that you should probably pay attention to
1. Sourdough - a mixture of flour and water, in which the so-called. symbiosis of lactic acid bacteria and several types of yeast. Even instead of water m. B. lactic acid products - kefir, yogurt, whey, etc., then it is a lactic acid starter culture (MKZ)

2.Sourdoughs by type of flour are wheat, rye and whole grain flour

3. Rye are used mainly (although they can of course also for baking wheat bread) for wheat-rye, rye-wheat and rye breads. Rye (eternal, for example, semi-finished product) are stored in relative cold - both in the refrigerator and simply in a cool (from 4-5 * C to 8-11 * C) place. And everyone chooses empirically which sourdough he likes best - stored in the refrigerator or somewhere warmer. If rye starter cultures are kept warm, they ripen very quickly and acidify. And the bread on them also turns out sour.

4. Wheat - French, grape, raisin, etc. - are only grown from rye flour, feed on wheat flour. Stored only warm, not lower than 12-15 * C. Because the lactic acid bacteria of wheat starter cultures die from the cold. Only yeast remains and the meaning in wheat leaven is lost, since wheat leavens give, in addition to raising, an amazing aroma of bread

5. Sourdoughs made from whole grain flour (eternal can also be made from c / w flour, by the way, or rather, it is one of the types of eternal leaven) can be stored in the refrigerator.In my opinion, this is a compromise version of sourdoughs - you can bake both dark bread and wheat on it.

6. MKZ - stored in the refrigerator, if kept warm - it will simply turn sour and the bread will be correspondingly tasteless

7. Different starter cultures are prepared in different ways for baking. But basically, if they are stored in the refrigerator, they took it out, waited until it warmed up to room T, put a dough on it, fed the rest and sent it to the refrigerator. If kept warm - everything is exactly the same, only we omit the moment of warming

And finally. I would advise you to stop at one sourdough, study the topic and then start growing. As long as you read everything in a row, you will have a mess in your head.
If rye bread is eaten in your family, then you are in Temki about the eternal, semi-finished product, MKZ, etc.
If you prefer white bread, then French, grape, raisin
If you use all kinds of bran, whole grain and different types of flour - then whole grain or eternal

It's just that your question is devoid of specifics, really. Ask a question about a specific sourdough - and get an answer

I hope to meet you at some specific topic

rinishek, thank you for your answer. But. This is how I wrote, read many topics about leaven, in fact, these contradictory excerpts from one topic: "eternal leaven". At first I tried to grow MKZ, but literally on the third or fourth feeding with the help of Viki I overfed her to eternal. This topic is the second one I read about leavening. Yesterday I put a "semi-finished rye product" because basically rye bread does not work out, and I really love it!

Yes, I didn’t explain how I understand it

I had a semi-finished rye product. Excellent leaven! worked like a watch!
... Before that, there was a liquid Frenchwoman, there was also self-leavening dough, there was MKZ.
Now I have wheat grape. Why? because we love wheat bread, without sourness, rye is not in use with us - so we switched to wheat
What am I doing? the sourdoughs were different, and the algorithm was the same - part of the sourdough was fed with flour-water - this is my dough, which I add to the bread
The semi-finished rye also works great in this algorithm. And even wheat bread turned out well on it. The sourness inherent in rye sourdough was and it bothered us, and so - it raised bread perfectly! and all sorts of wheat-rye - so generally with a bang
If you need sourdough for rye breads, but there was no experience, then rye p / f is an excellent sourdough. With it, you can test your favorite recipes and improve your skills.

here is a great recipe on this sourdough https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=93087.0
or rather, one of the recipes, since, in principle, on a rye p / f, you can bake any bread with sourdough or with the addition of a little yeast

it was again I baked rye bread again ((recipe - rye brewed with sourdough (HP) from Arka: eaten eternal leaven-350g (there was no more), 300g rye flour, 110g millet flour, 250ml water + 160ml boiling water brewed 40g rye malt, 1.5 tsp of salt, 1 tbsp of honey, 2 tbsp of butter, kneading "PIZZA" 15 minutes, the dough was so liquid that you couldn't even call it a batch - I added 4 tablespoons of millet flour. , then put it in a bucket and for 2 hours proofing in the oven with a light bulb, the dough rose almost to the top of the bucket, baking for 1-30 minutes.It cooled down for 5 hours, the roof sagged a little, the crumb with good holes, but again wet, a trace remains on the knife from bread. Again, either to birds or to crackers 🔗
🔗, 🔗
phew, reported as best she could)))

again I baked rye bread again

I don't understand, but where does the rye p / f?
judging by the photo of the bread - not enough flour, but in general rye breads are quite capricious, or rather require a certain skill. You actually have rye bread, psh. flour is only 100 g, therefore, there is a problem with kneading - rye is generally poorly kneaded in CP - after all, the dough is sticky and moist
Well, the crumb is wet - so it is wet for all rye, maybe this is the norm for him?
I'm not very good at this, because I baked mostly wheat-rye, maybe I don't know something. I advise you to ask the same questions in the Temka with the recipe, maybe those who have already baked such bread will help. And here they may simply not see

yes you are right thanks for the answer

Girls, let them correct me if I'm wrong. The other day I watched a program about the benefits and harms of bread, and so, there were signs of good bread. Rye breads are considered good only if a wet trace remains on the knife after the cut (meaning "Borodinsky", "Zavarny", etc.). This does not in any way apply to white bread. You have a real sourdough rye bread. What more do you want ?!

[sea39]

the dough was so thin that you couldn't even call it a batch - I added 4 tablespoons of millet flour.
2 hours proofing in the oven with a light bulb, the dough has risen almost to the top of the bucket
the roof sagged slightly
crumb with good holes, but again wet, there is a trace of bread on the knife

When the kneading is in progress, make sure that there is still some kind of kolobok. My flour may differ from your own moisture content. In this bread, during kneading, a bun should form at least above the spatula that twists it. Prepare the flour nearby and add 1 tbsp each when kneading. spoon.
In terms of proofing, I would be a little short on dough to have potential for growth during baking. If you allow the dough to grow as much as possible in the proofer, then the roof sags during baking, as a rule. Mark the level 2.5 times and do not exceed it, the bread will continue to grow as it bakes.
If this particular bread seems damp to you, dry the slices with a toaster. In general, a semi-finished rye product liquefies the dough more strongly than an eternal leaven, for example, especially over time. So you need to add more flour.
I believe in you sea39! Everything will work out! I did it, but I am not special, an ordinary novice baker, but very attentive
If you have any more questions about my recipes, please write to me in the topic, otherwise I accidentally looked here (how I felt), and I keep track of mine all the time

Rusya. well, thanks for the support, I will consider that the bread was a success

[Arka]

this is the beauty I got today






baked according to the recipe and instructions from Arka (but multiplied the quantity by 2, including the sourdoughs (700 g), thanks a lot to her!

and Viki thanks too !! for tips on sourdough at the beginning of my sourdough path))

[Lenka_minsk]

Lenka_minsk, this is a loaf! It smelled of rye bread! .. And what a perforated crumb!
It seems to me that the bread wanted to grow a little more before baking Or it was possible to make orderly cuts on it ...

What do you say, bread gurus?

well - he came up 2 times in 3 hours in the oven, decided not to wait, for the last time my roof fell through, or rather, at a loaf in HP after 4 hours of distance))
I kneaded it with my hands, I couldn't turn it with a fork.

as a result - I also thought about the incisions, but I'm still training and have never been an experienced baker) in the baking process I sprinkled water from a pulver a couple of times, I don't know if I need to or not, but I did it

The main thing for me is that at least something turns out and there is an incentive)) for my husband and son such bread, a little damp and with sourness - I really like it, they don't want to eat yeast from HP))

the only thing - I missed badly and sprinkled the edges of the form, which is why I took it out with difficulty, crushing both sides and bread in the process, but this did not appear on the insides)
and I have no other form, flatter yet.

In principle, it is not difficult - on Friday at 24.00 I fed the leaven and went to sleep peacefully, on Saturday at about 11-30 - it doubled, kneading, spreading, pastries - wrapped in a towel at 17.00. all.
and I'm not afraid anymore
in the kitchen, you can see the sourdough fresh, and it does not grow very quickly, so in the morning I transferred it to the bathroom and put it on a towel in a niche. next time I'll put it in the bathroom right away, I'll see when it doubles)
and the spread in the oven - in general, some kind of happiness)) I even took a nap during the day, and did not run around the HP with a timer

I will continue to train)