Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

I grew the leaven as in the first post of the topic, I found a recipe so that it would be completely without yeast - from this topic

Mixed bread in a sourdough bread maker (GruSha)

Sourdough 200g
Rye flour 200g
Wheat flour 200g
Salt 2h l.
Sugar 1st. l.
Oil 25g
Milk 270ml
The leaven was kind of playful. Sifted flour. It's very warm at home now. Panas bread maker SD255. French mode. It turned out to be a low brick, heavy. True edible. The crumb is dense and sour, reminiscent of the taste of bread in the era of developed socialism (early 70s).
It turns out that practically the bread did not rise What did I do wrong, tell me, please ...

I have recently been baking in Panas without a program with 1 rise, I don’t know whether it’s right or not, but I like it and, yes, I have to control the process so that it doesn’t stop. The last bread approximately according to your recipe, the leaven rose very well in 2 hours, which is very surprising for me

Yes, I kind of controlled while the first 4 hours were rising, and then I forgot. I remembered when the smell of bread had already appeared, that is, in the last hour. I didn’t open it so that the roof didn’t fall. On yeast when I made such bricks, there were no such bricks, but here I wanted to be sure without factory yeast ... eh.

[enik]

enik, I knead on the "dumplings", pull out the spatula, shape the bread and periodically look in, when I feel that it's time, I turn on the baking. All.

[enik]

enik, your bread, as far as I understand, is rye-wheat, there are two or three kneading kneads near the stove in etgm mode, for rye (mostly) this is too much. After the last kneading, the bread did not have time to rise.

series 2.
I tried the wheat version of the bread with this sourdough. Chose this option - Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=265294.0
1. Pulled the leaven out of the refrigerator, added 100 grams each. water and rye flour.
2. I took from the just fed sourdough
218 - 220 gr.
Warm water 290 - 300 ml.
Rast. butter 2 - 3 tbsp. l.
Wheat flour varieties 450 gr.
Salt 1 tsp
Sugar 3/4 cup l
3. Turned on the Pelmeni mode. After 20 minutes, a snail turned out instead of a bun, although I added flour.
4. Turned on the French mode. I didn't take out the shovel, they say wheat, it always turned out. After an hour I looked - like a snail spread evenly, but it rises. Left on business.
5. Arrived 20 minutes before the start of baking, opened - the level of the dough dropped even lower than I saw 4-5 hours ago. I turned off the power to the bread maker.
6. I scratch my turnips and write here. How to save this bread? Just wait until morning? Will it turn sour?
In the morning: I couldn't stand it - at midnight I put it on baking for an hour. It turned out to be half the height of the usual. Gray. Quite sour. Better than the first one. Probably in the next experiment I will give up the French regime and after the dumplings regime I will stupidly wait until the bucket rises to the brim
In the meantime, he took up the leaven with the aim of "overfeeding" it. I understood the technology, but the name is not very good - either add too much food, or repeat the process again. A woman's word Whether it’s a matter of masculine expressions, for example, "underdrank" - all shades and stages are immediately obvious!
Track. in the morning: the overfed sourdough instead of the promised 2-3 hours doubled in just 20 hours. Added rye flour and water - let's see how much it will double now ...
Oops, shaitan, doubled in two hours, apparently matured. 220 grams again in a bucket and in French mode with a delay of one hour, the recipe is the same. After kneading, I removed the spatula. I arrived about 20 minutes later than the end. The loaf has already turned out to be decent, although it is 5 centimeters below the edges of the bucket. I tried it - it’s tasty, there’s no sourness, but next time I must put it off for three hours, probably.I immediately sent the fed sourdough to the refrigerator - in the evening I looked, and it rose twice in the cold, horror. As if at night did not fill the entire refrigerator ...
To be continued, if someone does not write a post here and interrupt the endless editing of this post

series 3.
I continue my experiments with wheat bread and overfed leaven.
So.
The sourdough was overfed successfully with all sorts of fast rising effects and refrigerated.
Yesterday at lunch I took her out of captivity, two spoons. To them I added 100 grams of rye flour and water. By the evening it rose twice.
For the night with a delay of 3 hours and 20 minutes, the French mode was switched on (6 hours + 3 hours 20 minutes). I poured warm water over the leaven, then butter, then flour, salt, sugar. I went to bed, did not control anything.
In the morning I took out some bread. Compared to series 1 and 2, he is handsome. But. I did not reach the edge of the bucket 2 centimeters and the lid broke. There is a very slight sourness, the crumb is wrinkled, but tasty. We will think about how to improve.

By the way, the top, it seems, is not baked - you press and the roof bends inwards by two centimeters ...
I figured it out - everything was baked there, just the upper crust (roof) is soft.
09072016 put the bread in the bread maker according to the previous recipe for lunch (6 hours fr. Dir, + 3 hours delay), just did not wait for the separate raising of the fed sourdough twice. Let's see if the leaven has gained strength ...
I managed to spy on the formation of a kolobok - it seemed to me liquid, I added a table about three. wheat spoons. That's all the differences (the sourdough is older and three tablespoons of flour, as well as the fact that the sourdough is immediately thrown into a bucket). The result still seems to be better. Cools down while ...

series 4. Experiment with whole wheat wheat.
Actually, I decided that I was already a hefty experienced and competent baker
Fuganul in a bucket of a bread machine just 150 gr. sourdough from the refrigerator, and in the recipe V.S. replaced wheat flour with whole wheat flour (Pudov). I put it on the French. the mode was delayed for an hour, however, the kolobok decided to control it. And for good reason. The gingerbread man was a liquid worm, therefore, during kneading, he added two or three tablespoons of whole grain to an exemplary bun. Left. Half an hour before the start of baking, I managed to look into the bucket, and there was only half the dough that had risen. Turned off the bread maker until evening. While waiting, I fell asleep. At one o'clock in the morning I woke up - it rose almost to the brim in the bucket. I scolded myself for ........ and left it until morning. In the morning at 8 I turned on baking for 1 hour 05 minutes. It smelled nice in the process, but with a slight sourness. I got it ready.

Everything seems to be fine, but the roof, not even torn, is "hollow". Probably the dough did not stand (it rose for 14 hours). Eh, well, when will it be completely flawless ...
At autopsy, the patient showed normal crumb, crispy crust, good taste with sourness, but pleasant.

we will continue to experiment.
P.S. The autopsy was carried out with a freshly acquired Brazilian knife ("Tarantino" or something like that) for bread - I am not overjoyed with it after the torment of cutting bread with ordinary knives.
P.P.S. Hmm ... in the process of cutting for dinner, in the area of ​​the shoulder blade, an unbaked crumb the size of a ping-pong ball was found. A great thing for fishing, if you still drip anise oil. Although, maybe. This is a man-made piece - the bread was not shaken out of the bucket until I turned the spatula hot on the drive side. Riddle. However, it's not a mystery - exactly the same crumpled crumb was obtained from gray bread in a school cafeteria during stagnation times, if you roll a piece of crumb for a long time in your hands, and it is easy to roll hot with a spatula.

series 5. The stone flower does not come out ...
It never happened, and now, again.
I got caught on occasion and at a strange price of 24 rubles 2kg. a pack of 1st grade wheat flour. Well, I think right now sing bake. The same recipe, on the same sourdough, 200 grams of rye sauerkraut immediately in a bucket and with a delay of three hours in the French mode. I waited for the batch - damn it, a sticky worm instead of a bun, but what is it. He turned off the stove. I turned on the dumplings. I began to add flour, the remainder c. with., four spoons entered, even shook everything out of the package into a bucket.It began to look like a bun, but at rest it spreads over a bucket in a minute. Left to reach with the stove off. Four hours later I looked in - wow, almost to the edge of the bucket rose. I turned on baking for an hour. I did not have time to leave the kitchen - smoke began to flow from the stove. It is clear that I poured the crooked flour from the bag onto the tin. I managed to stand on the baking for about three minutes. Pulled out, washed, burned slightly. The roof, as expected, fell a couple of centimeters, well, I think it will rise back. An hour passed, the bread was baked without incident, the roof did not rise

But it is quite edible.
The question is ripe - I have NEVER observed the usual kolobok while kneading with sourdough, always a layer of liquid-sticky dough all over the bucket of scraps and in the corners. And I constantly add flour 3-4 tbsp. spoons, I tried 4 types of flour, so it's not about flour. Hmm ...

series 6. Curse of the stupid goat's castle.
A protracted comprehension of failure prompted me to modify the recipe. So.
I took from the just fed sourdough
Rye sourdough from the first post, later overfed - 200 gr.
Warm milk 250 ml.
Rast. oil 3 tbsp. l.
Wheat flour extra 450 gr.
Salt 1.5 tsp
Sugar 1.5 tbsp l
The sourdough was warmed up for a couple of hours before laying and rose by two times.
Starter culture at the bottom of the bucket, then sifted flour, milk 250 ml., Butter, salt, sugar and dumplings for 20 minutes. - Oh, for the first time a kolobok is like a kolobok. In the process of mixing, I added another ml. 30-40 milk. Turned on French mode. He left. Half an hour before baking, I looked into the bucket - the dough is in large bubbles and the level is slightly above half. He turned off the stove. After two hours, the dough reached 3/4 of the bucket. He turned on baking for 1 hour 5 minutes. I didn't hear the signal, so I opened the stove lid 20 minutes after the end. Well, the roof is flat again And it doesn't fall out of the bucket until you turn the blade drive from the bottom of the bucket.

The cut showed a seemingly normal quality of the bread. If you press the crumb, then it immediately returns to its previous form.

And the taste is also nothing. But where is my puncture that the roof is falling ???

freshly fed sourdough

I think the leaven should have been given time. And from there to take.
Although, she herself did not stand on ceremony with the leaven.

Rast. oil 3 tbsp. l.

stopped laying altogether. Or at the end of the batch. And now, either without butter at all, or I grease the freshly baked bread with butter and wrap it in a towel. Keep this towel separate. The smell cannot be washed off.

But where is my puncture that the roof is falling

or maybe it has stopped?

Warm milk

maybe sour milk is better? or water.



Well, try removing the sugar.



Ripe leaven raised the bread in 4 hours at T 27. Or left it at room T.

The leaven should have been given time to "feed"
The crumb of nostrils under the roof is more ... it looks like the dough has stopped ... and perhaps the kneading mode and temperature are not yet suitable

Yes, I have confused everyone with the degree of feeding-overfeeding of sourdough. The leaven is already grown up, three weeks old, the smell is pleasant, closer to apple, when you take it with a spoon it bubbles in places. He pulled it out of the refrigerator, took 200 grams into a separate container, fed the rest and let both stand for 2 hours in the warmth. Both went up 2 times. One in the bucket, the other on the top shelf of the refrigerator. I tried to remove the scapula after the dumplings regime, but again changed my mind. Probably these adjustments and additional. the batch broke something in the dough. I give my honest noble word that either in the French mode next time I will take off the scapula right after the dumplings, or I will do without French at all, after the dumplings I will wait for the rise under the edge of the bucket and turn on the baking. Yes, I'll be on plain water. I will remove sugar and butter only out of despair

[enik]

enik, why not roll back pastries using ready-made recipes?

Basic sourdough wheat bread (bread maker)
Sourdough bread made of 1 grade flour (in a bread maker)
Light gray sourdough bread (bread maker)
Sourdough wheat bread

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera, thanks, I'll take a closer look, and offhand there are some with yeast and a completely different leaven.And I would like it on this one and without yeast at all.

[enik]

enik, work it out algorithm action. Not by eye ... but right.
Find a recipe that suits you.
Sourdough, she's a living animal. It also depends on the weather.
Nobody bothers you to bake with this sourdough. And yeast-free. Although the basis of this is primarily yeast.
I'm sitting tightly on this bread
Artisanal bread without kneading with sourdough
variations of the same bread in the subject, read from the end of the topic.
Different liquid, the addition of different flours gives a different bread.
Hell and in HP.
Help, nothing happens with bread !!! (Ambulance

And further. Maybe you will open your topic, and there we will discuss your experiences. It would be more correct.

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGeraThanks, all my experiments around one recipe that I am trying to adapt to this particular leaven. If I sprayed on a bunch of other recipes, including those not for the bread maker, I would quickly lose faith in sourdough bread. In my opinion, discussing a bread recipe suitable for this leaven in the subject of sourdough is quite correct. After all, the meaning of sourdough is precisely in obtaining bread with a special taste and, as they say, with useful properties.

[already overfed]

discussing a bread recipe suitable for this leaven in the subject of sourdough is quite correct.

well yes ... only you already overfed leaven and keep in the refrigerator. And this is not good for the wheat leaven and the original leaven has already changed its properties. And this is another leaven. So something like that.

And for wheat, start on wheat flour. Refeeding others. And this must be taken into account when maintaining the leaven.
Rye carries the refrigerator. Wheat ... read about wheat leavens.

With THIS sourdough - Darnitskiy goes great

Darnitsky bread with leaven (GOST)

I have a rye sourdough (the one that is stored in the refrigerator), from the first post of this topic. A week ago "overfed" with rye flour. Wheat flour was added only to the selected part. Having several types of starter cultures does not suit me. Thanks for Darnitsky's recipe, but it is also with yeast. I will stubbornly adapt to this particular leaven, sorry.

but it is also with yeast

when the leaven is strong, bake without yeast.

overfed

no, not overfed, but fed.
I realized that you overfed the sourdough into wheat. Excuse me.

I will stubbornly adapt to this particular leaven, sorry.

Understood. What a leaven This is. Rye. Phew ...
How many days / weeks is she?
See how strong it will be, so without yeast and bake. Although, you can try now

from the first post of this thread

yeah, and you feed her, so you lead her as an eternal one, right?

The leaven is already grown up, three weeks old, the smell is pleasant, closer to apple, when you take it with a spoon it bubbles in places.

I read the possible reasons for the roof collapse - too much yeast. Here, of course, wild, but still. The only two options when the bread had a roof was when I took two tablespoons of sourdough and added 100 grams to it. water and 100 flour and waited until it doubled. In other cases, I just took 200 grams. ready-made sourdough from the refrigerator. I'll try tomorrow or the day after tomorrow with two spoons.
Eternal? How much he took, he fed as much.
"- Yesterday on the street an old woman came up to me and offered to buy an eternal needle for a primus. You know, Adam, I didn't buy it. I don't need an eternal needle, I don't want to live forever." I&P.

If you search here, then the leaven is called that. Eternal.
The meaning - you feed - grows.

You confused us ... Starter, what is in the refrigerator. Then we feed him and get the leaven. Understood.
Leave a little starter. Well ... a teaspoon and what's on the walls. This is enough to raise the leaven. Otherwise, you will have to throw away the excess or attach - pancakes, kvass, masks on the face and head ...

So you took as much as 200 g of this starter ... such a vigorous leaven ...
In general, the algorithm is simple:
starter - top dressing - rise - take it to the bread - feed it - a little rise - put it in the hol-k.
You can refresh the starter at night to put the dough in the morning.

We got 400 gr. product, I have a lot of this for storage and I 200 gr. sent to bread.

This is a quote from the very first post in the topic. Although, she did not write how much bread she sent these 200 grams. It is clear, we are adopting the terms starter and sourdough.
So you need to feed the entire starter or just a couple of spoons taken away for sourdough? If the second, then the starter does not need to be fed on the amount taken away and wait until it ends?

[from this leaven]

Let's figure it out

When I want to bake bread, I take 1 - 2 tbsp. l. "semi-finished product" (20 - 40 gr.), add 100 gr. water and 100 gr. rye flour and let it double. Approximately 7 to 12 hours.

You violated this point when baking.
And this starter culture is not intended for constant feeding.
That is, we prepared a portion and used

Servings of 200 gr. I have enough for a month. This is 5 times 40 grams = every week for a rye bread plus prepare the next portion for storage.

Then we start a new one.

If you want to lead the leaven as eternal, from this leaven, then it is quite acceptable

if you stick to the terminology, is it an eternal starter, not a sourdough?
Well, to continue the experiment, I'll take a couple of spoons of starter for the sourdough. I won't add anything to the starter, I'll put it back in the refrigerator right away. I will add 100 grams to a couple of spoons of the starter. water and rye flour, I will wait for doubling and in a bucket, and then according to the old recipe (3 hours delay + 6 hours French mode, I will not take out the scapula).
And why is the constant replacement of a couple of spoons taken from the starter with a similar amount of water and flour scary?

And why is the constant replacement of a couple of spoons taken from the starter with a similar amount of water and flour scary?

nothing))) That is, you are constantly replenishing the lost. But ... why is there so much leaven?
IMNNO THIS starter culture does not involve feeding and breeding.

I will not take out the scapula

I don't know ... I would have looked at how people bake in KhP.

In general, the algorithm is simple:
starter - top dressing - rise - take it to the bread - feed it - a little rise - put it in the hol-k.

oops .. this is already if you lead the leaven ..
A semi-finished product does not imply feed and a slight rise. They took the required quantity and into the refrigerator.

[enik]

enik, I'll also start this leaven
Sourdough "The Simplest"

Hello Vicky !. Please help me figure out the dry leaven. I bought dry wheat and rye starter cultures for bread baking DeutschBack EMCE SW. But neither on the Internet nor on the forums did I find instructions on how to use them for baking bread in a bread maker. And I really want to bake healthy bread without yeast. Please tell me how to work with them? I would be very grateful. Thank you in advance

Please tell me, is it possible to make a semi-finished product from whole grain or wheat flour using the same technique, that is, so that you do not feed it all the time, but take as much as you need and bring it to the desired consistency when baking bread directly? I have successfully grown this sourdough, the bread is delicious, but I just want a wheat sourdough for wheat bread.

make a semi-finished product from whole grain or wheat flour

Sourdough "The Simplest"

[OlgaGera]

OlgaGera , thanks for the help. Now I will try to grow this leaven too, it seems that everything is simple

what the doctor ordered
and if the semi-finished product is not muddied for prom. yeast, but on wheat leaven, how do you think?

Friends, I share if anyone has a need. The sourdough is three years old, works great. Rye regular. Mainly I make whole grain wheat. Flour French thing. Well, in summer, kvass is natural.

[1.]

Hello!
Great recipe! Ideal for starter beginners like me. It is difficult even to imagine the conditions under which it could fail. Unless you put in it, something of the three components.

But questions still remain

1. The final feeding I have today at 23:00 (this is if you count down 12 hours clearly in time). But she got up every 3 o'clock today by 17:00. Now it is holding, but it is clear that it literally slid down by 1-2 mm. What does this mean? What kind of state is this, that "peak of form" or something else? I'm just trying to figure out whether I can wait until 23:00 to put it in the refrigerator, or if I can now.

2. And how to put it in the refrigerator, mix everything or not touch it and remove it as it is? Inside, she's all loose.

3. And further. While reading this topic, I came across that Viki she still sometimes feeds.

I keep it at 3 * C and everything is in order, only for a month (as I expected) I miss it.
Sometimes I feed a spoon - two 50 grams each. flour and water, and after 3 - 4 hours I add another 50 each. I think she likes it so much.

Or is it about something else? And you really can never feed her. Or is it better to feed ... sometimes

[Anna Adamovna]

Anna Adamovna, you can put it in the refrigerator as it is, anyway when you take a part you will mix it, or you can mix it and put it on. Here you will not harm her.
You can keep it in the refrigerator and take a part as needed, as I did in the first post of this topic. And you can feed it as "eternal". When she had no more than a spoon left, I began to feed. But now I rarely bake and just keep it in the refrigerator. As it ends - I feed again a lot and in the cold.
Try both options and you will define your own.
Happy bread!

[Viki]

Viki, thank you for answering! I am so confused that I now have the leaven that I am even a little afraid of it.
It seems to me that I got it so good that I will do something wrong with it, and it will not be so good anymore
It seems to me, and I'm afraid to look at her, not that to touch. But I firmly decided to overcome my fear, I sit studying recipes

Yes, I forgot to say, Moscow region, Korolev. Who needs it, take it, so as not to grow, not to waste time. Proven, it rises three times when feeding. I give! In good hands :-)

[Viki]

Viki, this is some kind of miracle, not leaven! I just can’t resist writing you about it (and indeed to everyone who wants to make friends with sourdough, but haven’t succeeded yet) and once again say thank you very much !!! I myself did not even hope, but this friendship happened. And the first time I got a gorgeous bread. I immediately decided to take a risk and not put in any yeast at all, in any safety doses, and I was not mistaken. Now the sixth loaf of Borodinsky is cooling down with pure sourdough. I bake without a gram of wheat flour, only rye. Today I got up in two hours and a half, this is no exaggeration. The taste is beyond praise! Most importantly, the husband, as a lover of Borodinsky, is delighted.

I bake only in a bread maker. The whole process is there. I knead on dumplings (20 min.), Form a slice with a wet spatula and put the stove into the service mode of warm proofing (the Panasikov owners will understand what I mean) until it is doubled. It used to stand for about 4 o'clock and 3.5 and 3, and today, here, he got up for two with a tail. Perhaps, the fact that today I poured into the dough a still warm tea leaves, and before that it was always already cooled, contributed to it. Then for baking - at 1:30. That's it, gorgeous rye bread is ready.

When I got it, I was confused and literally didn’t know what to do with it now. And she just stood in the refrigerator for several days. Then I decided to start acting anyway)) Fortunately, at that time, wandering around the forum, I came across this topic Viki https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...874.0 and began to do as described there. I separated five grams of starter culture in a small jar and began to feed it in the mornings and evenings with thirty to forty grams of flour and ≈ the same amount of water (I took this optimal amount for myself after several dressings). And for about a month, I didn't bake anything, she just lived with me, I fed her and watched her behavior. She always smelled so wonderful, now some kind of lilac flowers, now apples.In general, somewhere only a month later (here I am such a leavening slow-witted)) I finally made friends with her and finally decided to bake bread. Which also turned out great the first time.

The only moment I would like to transfer it to storage in the refrigerator. But I'm so used to keeping it in the room that I can't imagine how to do it so as not to spoil it. That is, let's say I also take 5 g of sourdough, feed it with 30 g of flour and water (= 65 g), put it in the refrigerator and just for a week or a week? That is, that's all? Just after a week, separate 5 g again, also feed and remove? I am now considering only pure storage, for example, if I plan not to bake for a long time.