Choosing a dishwasher

the function of the salt is to participate in the regeneration of the special resin of the ion exchanger (in fact, it is it that softens). If the resin is not regenerated at all, the device will die. Gasping for breath - the worst work with detergents due to excessive rigidity.

About "from scale" - this is a highly exaggerated and not very faithful cart from the advertisers of Calgon. ))

If there are a lot of calcium salts in the water, then it is imperative to use special products. It is very easy to understand what kind of water you have from the kettle. If your bottom and walls are covered with a hard coating, then there are a lot of calcium salts and the same coating will be deposited in the PMM and the washing machine. Over time, this will damage the instruments. And besides, the quality of dishwashing will be worse. In my instructions for the PMM, it is written in detail about the regeneration salt and there is a table for regulating the salt consumption from the water hardness.

In St. Petersburg, the water is very soft (there are no calcium deposits in teapots), so you can do without salt. You need to watch what kind of water flows from your tap.

Salt is also needed in St. Petersburg. if you do not want to ditch the ion exchanger (I have a setting for 1, that is, at least) !!!!!

I never called the master to my cars. In the instructions for Kuppersbusch IG 459.2 in the water hardness table there is a salt level position - 0. I do not argue with you, since I am not a repairman. My conclusions are solely from the instructions and from personal practice. So far, everything is fine ... tt tt ... Trusting you, as a specialist, perhaps I'll buy and pour salt.

Yes, I got it, I'm going to look for a test to determine the hardness of water. Our region has average hardness.
But in any case, if the instructions directly say what not to include, if the salt is not filled in, I will follow the instructions.
I understand correctly that there is only one place where salt is poured and I understand correctly what this is all about?

You don't need a test. Do as my girlfriend! Having bought a PMM, she immediately called Vodokanal, where she was kindly told all the information about the hardness of water in our particular area!
Lga, sazalexter is right - you need to pour salt and set it to one! This was confirmed to my friend and Vodokanal. So put some salt in the car - it's better.

Thank you all very much!
It seems enlightenment has come a bit
My husband brought Calgonit salt and powder and Somat rinse aid, launched the first wash
Smell the rinse aid - some kind of dubious smell Will the dishes smell like it later?

Smell the rinse aid - some kind of dubious smell Will the dishes smell like it later?

When you open the car, there may be a slight smell, but I have no smell from the dishes. Just do not open the car immediately (min30), let it cool down. This is to prevent the steam from spoiling the countertop. Have you screwed the protective plate to the bottom of the tabletop?

Washed! My husband, of course, could not resist and immediately let's open the door, it smelled good of chemistry from there ... but this is to my nose, I react sharply to smells, my husband said that there is only a little smell.
There is no need for a plate, our sink is not embedded in the countertop, but how to explain ... such a sink-countertop on a double cabinet, that is, there is no wooden countertop under it, it is solid metal. And now it turned out that this is a plus

Smell the rinse aid - some kind of dubious smell Will the dishes then smell like them?

The dishes will not smell.

I won't find a test, I'll have to call, but courtesy in such instances is rather an exception, so it's not very eager to contact them ...

It is usually advised to look for this in near-aquarium stores, m. in the zoo. In the household or construction - hardly. In theory, it can be cunning sellers of household goods, in the same place as PMM, but this is also not a fact.

And you should inform the water utility without any problems if you ask. Only they have the same average, as elsewhere. And here it is like a pipe where it is thrown - such water will be. Not very significant, but fluctuations may not matter.

It seems that I read everything on the forum about the stains on the dishes - what are they from, but here's the thing, I was washing in auto mode all week - everything was perfect And this morning I take out the dishes - there is a white bloom on the plates I did not change any settings, the indicators did not light up either. .. Not visible on the rest of the dishes.
Plaque is definitely not food that has not been washed, especially since the day before, some of the dishes were rinsed in the rinse mode, and yesterday they delivered them to a full load and washed them. There was a plaque on absolutely all flat plates. Soup bowls made of the same black glass are normal.

[bluekitten]

bluekitten White bloom is both glass leaching and improperly selected detergents IMHO.
What remedy do you use? Hopefully not a thousand-in-one pills?

[bluekitten]

bluekitten White bloom is both glass leaching and improperly selected detergents IMHO.
What remedy do you use? Hopefully not a thousand-in-one pills?

What do you mean! I use the powder, Finish-Calgon. I sprinkle 15-25 ml as the dishes become dirty, and pour a full compartment for pots.
And how so - from the whole service only on flat plates. Although my soup bowls are more often than these plates.
Before leaving, I switched on the rinsing mode, in the hope that this powder did not wash off well, I will come in the evening to see the result ...

[bluekitten]

bluekitten So you need to revise the amount of salt upwards.
I know from Tomsk that the water in the region is not important, very hard and with a large amount (of iron oxides?) The ion exchanger cannot cope IMHO

sazalexter, thank you, I'll watch and look for a test to determine the stiffness.
By general signs, we have somewhere of average hardness (there is little scale, soap can be washed and washed off well, just right). But there are still seven positions of the regulator, so it is necessary to determine more precisely.

[bluekitten]

bluekitten Surely in your city there are companies engaged in the installation of freshwater aquariums, so you need to ask them. Or at pet stores.

Now I saw such an animal in the Platypus:



If it has already been discussed, then I apologize, I don't remember ...

Have you already used it? It is one third cheaper than Calgonite ...

And I in Auchan bought a powder for 100 rubles and I really like it.

Now I saw such a beast in the Platypus

If it has already been discussed, then I apologize, I don't remember ...

Have you already used it? It is one third cheaper than Calgonite ...

I buy this very often and from the very beginning of the operation of the dishwasher, that is, more than 7 years. Not a bad option, at least I like it better than others, for example, Somat ...

And did anyone use Japanese powders for PMM?

I bought Pogremushka powder once and I liked it, but then I saw the dishwasher gel and for a year now I have been using only gel and I really like it.

but then I saw dishwasher gel and for a year now I have been using only gel and I really like it.

Please, can you get more details? Which firm? What's the money? How long is enough?
7 years with PMM, but I have never even heard of a gel for PMM.

lga here is this Lion gel detergent for automatic dishwashers Crystal charm 480 gr. in the photo next to the bottle there is a spare block, it costs 280 rubles. with kopecks, a spare block of 260 rubles, enough for almost a month, I wash the dishes 1 time a day, I pour 15 ml into the sink.

tanya1962, we have a Lion in the city. And what kind of composition is there? Normal or Amway-like "safe"?

bluekitten, unfortunately, the composition is not indicated in the anatomy in Russian, but they write a neutral gel suitable for washing aluminum dishes, which means it is not so aggressive. Amway never used for dishwashers.

Pogremushka I bought this powder
but I think he's all good.

[Japanese powder for PMM Lion "Charmy"]

Got me Japanese powder for PMM Lion "Charmy"... In a bottle with a dispenser cap (very convenient). What can I say. Full delight! A full load of PMM for 9 persons requires 10 grams of powder (the dispenser, by the way, measures 5 grams each).I usually put in other funds 2-2.5 times more. All dishes are shiny! Including a saucepan for semolina porridge, a saucepan for pasta, plates of oatmeal (other means, as a rule, could not cope, especially since the bowls are so deep, apparently the water does not hit too hard there, inside the plates because of their shape). The main advantage for me is no chemical smell from PMM and from dishes (plastic cups from Ikea suffered especially from this). In general, solid advantages. I will definitely never return to calgonites, somats and others like them! What I wish everyone
P.S. I'll post the photo later.

Star, and where, if not a secret, was the potential presence of a "miraculous remedy" discovered in St. Petersburg? I rummaged in the internet, but maybe I was not looking like that - only Moscow came across all alone, even when asking for Peter ...

Historically, when the dishwasher was connected, only the old, expired, washing from the old typewriter and nothing else appeared in the house. And I'm not even sure that the contents of the package corresponded to the packaging itself, since I used to use Iplon before, but Calgonit had a convenient plastic canister, although I didn't like Calgonit, but it was back in 2004 and there were no tablets yet , as well as dishwashers themselves, provided in such a quantity and variety as now. Let me remind you that when you turn on the machine, there is no salt, there is no rinse aid, there is only detergent, of dubious quality. Imagine my amazement when I took out the first washed dishes (I will make a reservation in advance, the dishwasher is the second in my life, of the same manufacturer, exactly the same model in terms of functionality and size, only built-in), I have it all brown and transparent, Dupont, on which every drop is visible, but its appearance plunged me into a good shock, it was perfect, not a single drip or drop of frozen water, no hint of stains or haze, it was washed perfectly! For a long time I was absolutely happy, there was no need to choose rinse aid and salt, to select their concentration, the dishes were amazingly transparent and shiny! then, some devil, I was brought to the ixbt conference, and I looked into the PM thread to find out what was new and good in the detergent market, since my detergent was coming to an end, and then I found out, that it is impossible to use PM without salt, as it threatens to break PM, etc., etc. In fear, I rushed to the store and bought salt, having thumped the whole pack I immediately had to part with dishes that were clean according to my criteria, this was followed by a purchase rinse and my dear mother, again every time I conjure up so that the result suits me. But thank God, the salt is over, the rinse aid too, or rather its quantity in the tank (and I thumped the whole pack of salt with a fool) and again I have clean dishes! Let the PM breaks down, I'll buy a new one, but these drip-drops spoil my nerves worse than any breakdown of a useful thing.
This was a small lyrical digression ... Now, on the essence of the question of this topic:
I did not find Iplon on sale, the tablets did not leave such disgusting sensations as using all the funds separately, but also not good, Calgonit, as before, does not make me happy, Somat is the same garbage (all IMHO) ... What am I washing dishes? Trite, Amway. Their LOK muck is rare, but the remedy for PM is very, very good, from the fact that it was possible to try it for me at the moment it is optimal. Maybe in other city-countries (and it really is) the choice is different, but we have Calgonite and nothing else. I didn't measure the consumption, I pour it on the eye, but not more than a tablespoon, or even less. On cooking, the girls in the PM pour in soap, dishwashing detergent and washing powder, in short, who will think of something.I washed the dishes a couple of times without anything, just put on an intensive program, and everything was clean, only food leftovers in the strainer
Wow, how much I wrote!

[Sena]

Sena Why be nervous Just find out the hardness of the water, CORRECTLY set the amount of salt and rinse aid and EVERYTHING!
And in a pill, these indicators are strongly averaged, it's fast food!
You don't feel like it, I hope to eat hamburgers all the time!

[sazalexter]

sazalexter
It is in civilized countries that there is a water resources department that knows the hardness of water for each microdistrict, but we do not even have a general figure for the city. Spiteful aunts from the water utility are sent to private laboratories, where they measure with litmus. I described my situation, not a guide to action, I do not impose anything on anyone. The water is really hard, with a lot of salts, since what remains on the black sink and black tiles lends itself only to Silit. And with PM, this is such a paradox!

The salt setting must be set depending on the hardness of the water, someone has 4 and someone has 1 Put less the filter will die and just business Some 200 bucks the price of the issue
PS: Salt costs less than the filter and nerves spent during the repair, IMHO

My question is, how to understand that the ion exchanger is covered, it is the filter mentioned above?
Well, I don't like the dishes washed with salt, although the salt is at a minimum, and when the salt runs out, the dishes are perfectly shiny and clean.

Once upon a time, in the magazine "Bathroom" there was an advice to use, instead of special salt, a simple table salt "Extra" without any additives. I did just that on an old typewriter, except for the darkened heating element in places, I did not notice anything else. Although he may not have gone spots because of this.

Now I also have a PM with an open heating element, it is clean and sparkling, although if you pour water from the tap into the kettle, then the scale remains. Perhaps 70 degrees is not enough for scale formation?

This salt does not allow me to live in peace, I don’t want to use it, but without it, changing the cars on a regular basis also somehow does not appeal.

Where can you get expert advice on this issue? I strongly suspect that infa about the ion exchanger is a marketing gimmick to buy salt. What about those who have very soft water and do not need salt at all? Or does soft water have a positive effect on the ion exchanger? In short, I'm not a chemist, it's a pity ...

Sena, Iiksbt wrote why you can't add a simple "extra" salt. This salt contains a small amount of the rest of the elements of the periodic table - it is they that lead to the death of the ion exchanger. Our water is very soft, we still filled up the salt, set it to the minimum. And the rinse aid is at a minimum. Honestly, I do not know why this highly refined dishwasher salt is so bad, it is sodium chlorine in Africa, the more the dishes are rinsed with clean water, and not with this salt (+ rinse aid, if used). Look on the same forum for signs of the death of the ion exchanger, they also wrote about it there (I don't remember). In the same place I read that someone washed dishes with plain soda (baking soda), and someone with mustard. But they didn't really feel sorry for their pmm. Someone washed not very dirty dishes with water, only the life of that dishwasher is not known.

Where can you get expert advice on this issue? I strongly suspect that infa about the ion exchanger is a marketing trick to buy salt. What about those who have very soft water and do not need salt at all? Or does soft water have a positive effect on the ion exchanger? In short, I'm not a chemist, it's a pity ...

N HOBOTE people, of course, are competent, but not always specialized. If in doubt, it is better to ask a question in the place where people hang out directly, these same PMMs are repairing, or for a start, don't even ask, but just dig around - this Temka has already been raised there repeatedly.

Where can you get expert advice on this issue? I strongly suspect that infa about the ion exchanger is a marketing gimmick to buy salt.

There is no trick in this place. On the contrary, they quietly wrote half a page in the instructions - and that's it. And our people "drink filth out of economy." Now it sprinkles table salt, then mustard powder, and the producers just need the dishwashers to close quickly and we ran to buy a new machine, since it is already a bummer to wash the dishes with handles.
Salt for PMM is chemically pure sodium chloride, which restores ion-exchange resin, and the entire periodic table is present in the cookery.Including substances that destroy it irrevocably. If the water is soft, experts advise you to add salt and set the regulator to a minimum. On salt, of course, you can very, very much save: my machine on the "C" for a year ate salt as much as five bucks. Rinse aid half a liter for the same year is also on the "C" for another two bucks. My dishes every other day, for daily work, multiply these numbers by two. The question is, if this is a lot, then where did you get the funds to buy a dishwasher?
Detergents are another matter. Pills are clearly expensive (for the average resident of the former Soviet Union). For a year, it took me 2x1kg of Calgonite (100 hryvnia) and a pack of 2 kg of Domol for 70 hryvnia for a total of 21 dollars.

Maybe we already discussed it, I looked through this branch before buying the PMM, maybe I didn't remember.
Can you please tell me, has anyone used the so-called environmentally friendly / safe detergents for PMM? I mean dishwasher tablets Frosch("the formula with natural soda washes away even dried food residues."), or powder for washing dishes at the PMM company Lanar ("Does not contain phosphate compounds. Contains active oxygen in its composition, which easily removes the most difficult dirt. Does not leave streaks, is completely washed out at the first rinse, harmless and safe")?
I have been using Domol powder and rinse aid (since March), I am one hundred percent satisfied with the quality of washing. But lately something has "covered" me and I want to wash the dishes in the PMM harmless thread.
P.S. I know about emway, do not offer.

[Fnezhinka]

Fnezhinka, (awesomely cute nickname!),

I have been using Domol powder and rinse aid (since March), I am one hundred percent satisfied with the quality of washing. But lately something "covered" me and I want to wash dishes in PMM harmless thread.
P.S. I know about emway, do not offer.

Let's separate "flies from cutlets": Do you want environmentally friendly or health friendly? If for the OS, then the millions of housewives who use Faery and others like it do more harm to nature than all PMM users using thermonuclear Calgonite and Somat. If for you personally, then the cheapest rinse aid completely neutralizes the remnants of any, even the most powerful, detergent. And if you use something innovative Japanese phosphate-free, then neither health nor nature is harmed ...

[Jefry]

Jefry, merci for a compliment about nickname.
I meant harmless for me (I hope that if it is harmless for me, then nature will certainly not suffer).
I knew that the rinse aid neutralizes all the "chemistry" and understood that before the PMM we were much more confronted with the chemistry of dishwashing detergents. But ... just the other day I poured hot water (almost boiling water) into a cup and the water started to foam somehow unpleasantly. I quickly reassured myself - it seemed. But then again it was repeated already with other cups, and a saucepan (I already poured boiling water into the saucepan for special purposes, checked it).
The rinse aid I have is at 1 (soft water), so I do not "overdo it".
So the thought about "chemistry" crept into my head.
Jefry, and you only meant japanese innovative phosphate-free medium? And our Ukrainian will not pull on completely harmless?

lga here is this Lion gel detergent for automatic dishwashers Crystal charm 480 gr. in the photo next to the bottle there is a spare block, it costs 280 rubles. with kopecks, a spare block of 260 rubles, enough for almost a month, wash the dishes 1 time a day, pour 15 ml into the sink.

If aluminum can be washed with it and it does not darken, maybe the parts from the meat grinder can also be washed? Nobody tried it?

TABLET TEST
In 1st place SOMAT 9.
In 2nd place is Akuta komplett.

Akuta komplett was not found in Germany.
Found in Poland on allegro (tablets made in Germany).
Launched PayPal account. I paid today.

Shipping to the Russian Federation 20kg - PLN 199, 10kg - PLN 120.
10kg = 480 tablets (12 packs), 20kg = 1000 tablets (25 packs)

1000 pcs (20 kg) = 402.45 + shipping 199 = 601.45 zloty = 5635 rubles = 5.64 rubles / pc

experienced owners of PMM, tell me, please - washed dishes are slippery to the touch, as if with a touch of funds. I rinse it under water - it stops being slippery. and the black saucers were covered with a white coating - is it buggy me, or did I set some settings incorrectly?

What is the number of your rinse aid? Salt level? what is the hardness of the water?

salt for 2, rinse aid for 2, medium-hard water (after the filter, scale in the kettle has not formed for a year already, without a filter it forms)

It is better to increase the salt and rinse aid level with your water. Our water is soft, scale does not form at all. I put salt at 1 (but this is with our soft water), rinse aid -4 (factory setting). I tried to reduce the level of rinse aid -2, a yellowish bloom appeared, returned -4, everything became normal.

rinse aid increased to the maximum - 3. increase salt too? dishes, if licked, salty ...

rinse aid increased to the maximum - 3. increase salt too? dishes, if licked, salty ...

I'm afraid to advise further. I have 6 levels of rinse aid and 7 levels of salt in my car. If the dishes are salty, then I think you shouldn't increase the salt, just try to increase it with the rinse aid.

slippery dishes - a lot of rinse aid. Not enough rinse aid - dried drops remain on the dishes. A lot of salt - the dishes are salty, there is little salt - there is a hard-to-remove plaque on the dishes. The algorithm for setting parameters is just like this ...

I seem to have a lot?

My dishes are very clean, shiny, dry, if you lick it, it stings on the tongue (like salty), to the touch, especially if it is slippery with wet hands. if you rinse under water - the slipperiness is removed ...

and on brown saucers - like a white coating ...

[Lisss's]

Lisss's, Jefry perfectly described the tuning algorithm.
Try to reduce one thing first (for example, set the rinse aid to 1). And to observe the dishes, put black saucers in each sink for control (it will be clearly visible on them).
I am not very versed in this chemistry, a cut we wash in PMM, but maybe the rinse aid has some kind of aftertaste, since it is too much (maybe it is salty too?).
If your water is moderately hard, the rinse aid level should be decreased, not increased. IMHO.
And if your PMM has a maximum salt level of 3, then maybe your set level 2 may also be too much for your water.
I would also set the salt level to 1 (taking into account that you have only 3 of them).
Don't worry, here you need to play with the settings a little and everything will be fine!
What are you washing with?

[Fnezhinka]

Fnezhinka, Thank you! I really like it, but I just can't adjust it properly ..

my Domol, and powder, and salt, and rinse aid, they all praised him here, so I didn't buy calgonite ...

in my car yes, only 3 levels, and another 0 - disable everything

Yesterday I reduced everything - I put both the rinse aid and the salt on 1. I liked the dishes better, they are less slippery, but if you lick it, it feels a bit salty, and if you rinse it under the tap, then something is washed off and foams. that shiny and without dried drops .. I'm just lost - what can I change now?