Bread maker Panasonic SD 255 (part 1)

By the way, I really like just bread (both white and rye) just with wine (unsweetened).

Especially "just with wine"

Please tell me, what's the difference where to throw the seeds directly into the batch or into the dispenser?
Does this change something?
What about regular oats or those that are instant?

If there are few seeds or rye bread, you can immediately knead. The rye mode does not use a dispenser. If more than 1/2 of a measuring cup, it is better to use a dispenser with the appropriate program. You can have any flakes. Just pour them directly onto the yeast so as not to come into contact with the liquid.

I recently read at Ginzburg, a doctor who treats obesity, that they get better solely from fat, carbohydrates were wrongly accused. Maybe someone who is recovering after acquiring HP eats not just bread, but bread with butter, sausage, cheese and others like them, due to which it increases the loss of fat.

Maybe someone who is recovering after acquiring HP eats not just bread, but bread with butter, sausage, cheese and others like them, due to which it increases the loss of fat.

AXA

The cookie is just super. I have it recently, and already my favorite! While everything is working out, there were no punctures. Baking white, rye-wheat. They stopped going to the store for bread right away (I thought at first I would have to until I learn). Home people approve of the choice, and this is the main thing, after all, the smell of freshly baked bread does its job!

As a person weighing 50 kg and adoring bread (and baked goods) for all my 29 years, I report that you get no more health from bread from KP than from bread from a store. But from our muffins and buns with fillings (unlike in store ones), the "interface" does not bloom like viburnum in spring, because we do not shove any nasty things (preservatives, dyes, improvers, etc.) there.

I recently read at Ginzburg, a doctor who treats obesity, that they get better solely from fat, carbohydrates were wrongly accused. Maybe someone who is recovering after acquiring HP eats not just bread, but bread with butter, sausage, cheese and others like them, due to which he increases the consumption of fat.

Every doctor is entitled to his opinion.
BUT numerous experiments (on animals and humans) with labeled atoms suggest the opposite. All of the carbon in body fat was absorbed by the carbohydrates in the food.
Probably you shouldn't completely give up something, there just should be a reasonable measure in everything.

And on my own I will say. For the first month of owning a bread maker, I gained 2-3 kg. And this is with morning runs. Consuming tasty home-baked bread in significant quantities, I didn't eat more butter or sausages. Quite the opposite. A piece of flavored bread is a self-sufficient dish.
And "bread and butter + sausage + cheese" is a memory of grandmothers: "... eat and eat, granddaughters, it's so FATTER!".

Congratulations!
I have also had a stove for almost a month now, so now I don’t get wet in any jeans, I had to buy one size larger. And this despite the fact that I do not overuse bread too much.

We have a bread maker recently. It is difficult to say whether it will affect the weight, months will pass, it will be seen there. If anything, let's do some physical education. Give us a healthy lifestyle! The bread maker was bought, by the way, for this very reason (in the store there are so many things that are not entirely useful and not at all useful)

I recently read at Ginzburg, a doctor who treats obesity, that they get better solely from fat, carbohydrates were wrongly accused.Maybe someone who is recovering after acquiring HP eats not just bread, but bread with butter, sausage, cheese and others like them, due to which it increases the loss of fat.

thoughtaetstsa that d. Ginzburg is a "gray" distributor of matzo.

All of the carbon in body fat was absorbed by the carbohydrates in the food.
Probably you shouldn't completely give up something, there just should be a reasonable measure in everything.

No, well, who is talking about a complete rejection of fats, just about reducing their amount in food, and the dependence is directly proportional, if you eat about 100 grams. fat, then you add weight, if 70-80 gr., then you just stand in one place, and if less than 50 gr., then slowly, but drop. Is it logical?
And the question is: can you tell us more about carbon, what properties does it have in terms of body fat, something I don't really catch up with?

thoughtaetstsa that d. Ginzburg is a "gray" distributor of matzo.

Not matzo, but slimming cocktails Dr. Slim.

And what prevents us from treating a freshly baked masterpiece without fanaticism? Do not pounce on a fresh loaf right away, but let it cool down properly, and only then, if necessary, not instead of lunch, but in addition ... It is difficult to resist, but measure in everything

just before we, for example, ate 2 pieces of not very high-quality bread for breakfast, and now the same 2 pieces of very good bread. In our family, for several years of using the ovens, no one has particularly recovered from homemade bread. everything is tasted in large quantities only for the first time.

No, well, who is talking about a complete rejection of fats, just a decrease in their amount in food, and the dependence is directly proportional if you eat about 100 grams. fat, then you add weight, if 70-80 g., then you just stand in one place, and if less than 50 g., then slowly, but drop. Is it logical?

And the question is: is it possible in more detail about carbon, what properties does it have in terms of body fat, something I am not really catching up with?

Fats are different. Measure with one yardstick: margarine or lamb fat or olive oil is not worth it.
You give vegetable fats without chemistry!
There is a book "World-class figurine" a French doctor wrote. There's a lot about fats and health.

And about carbon everything is simple.
This element is included in the composition of proteins and fats and carbohydrates in food, and at the same time it is in our fat deposits. If you mark the carbon atoms in different foods, then you can find out "what we eat likes to be deposited on our waist." And so they found out that easily digestible carbohydrates are almost straight ahead.

And about homemade bread - if you still have the habit of eating 3 slices of bread at lunch (for example), then homemade bread will give fewer calories compared to store bread. Because: the density of the home is less (the air does not fill up) and we do not put margarine in it.

[Uncle Sam]

Uncle Sam, and I love bread crusts (for this reason I prefer the small size of a loaf) - are they, I wonder how, healthier or more harmful?

Fats are different. Measure with one yardstick: margarine or lamb fat or olive oil is not worth it.
You give vegetable fats without chemistry!

No, well, pepper is clear that there are healthy and unhealthy fats, only this function does not affect their deposition at the waist. I personally crawl when cooking only with vegetable oil, but here the paradox is just the highest percentage of fat content - 95, more only m. in margarine-97. So the question about usefulness is a separate song.

[exactly the same]

Let's set up a thought experiment and present the results ...

There are, let's say, 10 people - our experimental subjects. We do a thorough research on their health. And we feed them exactly the same - from the "popular" or even "scientific" point of view - very useful products, at the "right" time, the same for everyone. And after a year we will check their health. And it turns out that ...

Three of them gained extra weight. Three have lost excessive weight. Two are doing great. One developed anemia.And the latter has a stomach ulcer.

1) If such results are not possible, then the conclusion is possible: there is an ideal diet that is suitable for one and all.

2) If such results are possible, then the conclusion is possible: there cannot be an ideal diet, just as there cannot be products that are equally useful for everyone.

For some reason, the 2nd option seems reliable to me. And you?

Yesterday they gave me a Panasonic 255, until that time I used 103 Hitachi for 3 years and was happy as an elephant. The only thing that darkened our coexistence was the absence of a jam-making mode and a bucket with a stirrer that began to peel off. In general, my colleagues made me happy at the doctor's office and are now waiting for the results of using the miracle technique ...
And now I have a problem - well, I did not find one in the list of programs that could be entrusted with a long kneading of rye bread. In old Hitach, I combined two modes - dough and quick baking, in total the kneading time was more than an hour and the bread turned out to be wonderful! At 255, the longest batch is 30 minutes
Help me to understand.

And what does not like the rye bread regime?

There, the kneading time is only 10 minutes (at least according to the instructions).

And you would try to bake rye bread using this program. You might like it. The stove does a good job of mixing in 10 minutes. Of course I have nothing to compare with, I didn't have another one, but I like bread, I didn't notice any impurities.

Under the program "Rye" I tried to make Bread with Bran according to the recipe in the instructions, it turned out very good bread, I advise everyone. It was also embarrassing that the batch was only 10 minutes according to the program, but the stove copes. Try it.

And now I have a problem - well, I didn't find in the list of programs one that could be entrusted with a long kneading of rye bread. In old Hitach, I combined two modes - dough and quick baking, in total the kneading time was more than an hour and the bread turned out to be wonderful! At 255, the longest batch is 30 minutes
Help me to understand.

I think that not only the kneading time is important here, but also the power of the stove, as well as the kneading process itself, maybe Panasonic kneads the dough better during this time? But if you need to stir for a longer time, then first turn on the pizza program, and after kneading, switch to rye bread.

I think that not only the kneading time is important here, but also the power of the stove, as well as the kneading process itself, maybe Panasonic kneads the dough better during this time? But if you need to stir for a longer time, then first turn on the pizza program, and after kneading, switch to rye bread.

After switching, the oven will equalize the temperature of the ingredients for about an hour according to the rye program. Will the dough rise all this time, being in the bread maker, and then knead again? Somehow not very good for rye, you must agree.
Maybe after the program "Pelmeni" turn on "Fast baking", there is definitely no alignment of the pace. By the way, I baked myself twice on the Rye mode, both times it turned out well.

[Stella]

Stella, I agree completely, completely forgot about the time to equalize the temperature, thanks.

I tried to do this - first in the pizza mode, and then the Rye program. Oddly enough, but the bread is good. And just on the rye program - a good result. Try to bake it properly first (at least you will see the result, as it is in a new bread maker), and if you don't like it, then try other options.

[Uncle Sam]

Uncle Sam, and I love bread crusts (for this reason I prefer the small size of a loaf) - are they, I wonder how, healthier or more harmful?

Good question!
The answer depends on your point of view.
1. If you are a fan of healthy food and think that the lower the temperature of baking bread, the more useful it is, then the crust is not for you, because it is subjected to the strongest heating.
2. If you are trying to reduce the intake of LIVE yeast in the body, then in the fried crust there are several times less of them than in the crumb (for the reason, see item 1).

I eat both the crumb and the crust, because it's just delicious.And I’m sure it’s useful for me.

No, well, pepper is clear that there are healthy and unhealthy fats, only this function does not affect their deposition at the waist. I personally crawl when cooking only with vegetable oil, but here the paradox is just the highest percentage of fat content - 95, more only m. in margarine-97. So the question about usefulness is a separate song.

God bless him, with fat content!
The remaining 3% in margarine probably comes from hydrogenation catalysts. Completely superfluous for you and me.

Since you are caught in this thread, let me thank you for your recipe for Easter cake - this is the best recipe from this forum so far, in my opinion, of course. I did it in different versions, and sometimes I was wrong with water: I baked it in the oven and still an excellent result. Before that, what recipes I didn’t use (there were even 3 recipes for "Easter cakes" from Panasonic, they were issued on a typographic thick lacquered sheet of color printing paper). But yours is the most versatile and most automatic. And, what is important, there is no such nonsense - "watch the kolobok". I and all my friends do not even consider such recipes - whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok and give it to the right ones. Everything is baked at night for breakfast. That at 5 am to go to stare at a bun? And if, instead of the exact dosage according to the type of laundry and its contamination, they write on the washing powder - "watch for foaming"? What kind of fool would buy this powder? Everything electrical works at night when 1 kW = 35kop.
And respect to you again!

I join! For there are never too many kind words, but I still remember the super-mood from the giant cake, eaten in half a day.

And, what is important, there is no such nonsense - "watch the kolobok". I and all my friends do not even consider such recipes - whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok and give it to the right ones. Everything is baked at night for breakfast. That at 5 am to go to stare at a bun? And if, instead of the exact dosage according to the type of laundry and its contamination, they write on the washing powder - "watch for foaming"? What kind of fool would buy this powder? Everything electrical works at night when 1 kW = 35kop.
And respect to you again!

They hint at the kolobok not because the recipe is not tested, but because everyone has different products (flour can be drier or wetter, water is wetter :), etc.) so you can safely consider other recipes. Everything is already tested.

The bun is hinted not from the fact that the recipe is not tested, but from the fact that everyone has different products

this is myth No. 2, since the recipe for the cake, for which everyone thanks a person, is made from the moment of its publication, that is, most likely during this period both flour and yeast and everything else were repeatedly updated, but the result, I repeat, is STABLE , which is what the branch of this recipe says.

And, what is important, there is no such nonsense - "watch the kolobok". I and all my friends do not even consider such recipes - whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok and give it to the right ones.

About the kolobok. Many recipes here are given in "glass" dimensions. When I first try the recipe given in "glasses" ("cups"), I always look at the kolobok, at the same time I write down the version in grams for myself, which I then cook on the machine.
Many recipes from the forum, which have now become my favorites, were first tested by me using the "kolobok method")) That is, in fact, you only need to follow the kolobok, the first time.
If this method does not suit you personally, then this is not necessarily nonsense.

That is, you actually need to follow the kolobok only once, the first time.
If this method does not suit you personally, then this is not necessarily nonsense.

Thus, you completely agreed that "whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok himself and give it to the faithful." - which I wrote earlier. I am grateful to you.

For some reason, the 2nd option seems reliable to me. And you?

Certainly so, but this does not seem to cancel the general principles, right?

And another question for you personally, Alain, how does your HP Delongi knead the bun, does she knock it out on the sides of the bucket or just roll it over? Well, I think there is no need to explain the meaning of the question, all bakers here are quite experienced.

Thus, you completely agreed that "whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok himself and give it to the faithful." - which I wrote earlier. I am grateful to you.

I do not want to get involved in further discussion, I just want to note that we are just expressing OPPOSITE opinions.

I think:
The one "who gives the recipe" owes nothing to anyone, but only shares his experience and best practices.
Our business is to take the risk of trying (or not trying).
Simply the "kolobok method" gives us the opportunity to just try a large number of recipes given in such relative terms as "cups-spoons-ladles".

Do you think:
that someone should provide you with exclusively verified recipes.

Just different points of view.

I don't want to get involved in further discussion,

I think:
The one "who gives the recipe" owes nothing to anyone,

That's why I and everyone else are so grateful to Elena Bo for her recipe.

Guys! Not my STE recipe. I just tried it and brought it, because it was the most successful of all the cakes that I had tried before in a bread maker. At the beginning of the recipe, it says where it came from. Do not ascribe to me other people's laurels.

Dear bakers! Tell me, who knows how to make bread denser, more like "bakery"? We have already played enough with our bread maker, rejoiced at the voluminous and light bread, we want an ordinary one (just don't send it to the store!).

And also tell me, please, a person without a dispenser, how many raisins, nuts and chopped apples does one fit in ml? I baked that famous cake and obviously overdosed on the additives - it turned out to be dull and heavy, it was not baked in the center of the roof

to increase the density of the bread, gradually increase the amount of flour until you achieve the desired result

[There is only one goal - to help determine one or another unit!]

Thus, you completely agreed that "whoever gives the recipe, let him follow the kolobok himself and give it to the faithful." - which I wrote earlier. I am grateful to you.

Personally, I get the impression that the topic of the kolobok needs to be removed from the forum, as it has so many opponents.

But why can't people read this topic to the end in full, and not across a line or diagonally.

How many times have I made changes to this theme - and I just can't please!
And so bad - and so bad! And again there are critics and disaffected! What - let me know?
If you do not like it - it is not clear - keep your anger to yourself, do not read, pass silently by at last, let those who really need it and who need it read it!

But the calculation of the recipe goes in parallel - for lovers of grams, and lovers of measuring cups. There is only one goal - to help determine one or another unit! And help bake the very first bread!

Not suitable for someone personally - choose your system of units - in pots, pots, cans, on a rope scale, finally. It's a matter of taste!

In what units - it is no longer important, it is important to make a preparation of bread dough so as not to shout later - "I can't do anything."

You don't need to measure everything just by yourself, people are all different, with different abilities, you don't need to be so categorical in judgments, and defend your point of view. For other people, your point of view will also seem wrong and unacceptable. And everyone will be right in their own way - and nothing more. And why offend.

And then, everyone is used to baking bread at home, in comfortable conditions, when the scales are at hand, and spoons and cups and everything else. And if not at home, if at the dacha, in other non-standard situations - when you forget the recipe, you are not at hand electronic scales, spoons, cups.
And what to do - to scream from your own stupidity and inability to cope with the problem.

This is where you need the skills of owning and using both grams and in parallel and measuring cups.
And most importantly, the skills of controlling the balance of flour and water, the skills of controlling the kneading of dough pieces of bread - that is, skills of working with BOX!

And in my practice there were situations when it was necessary to get out of the situation, more recently, when all the things are in bags and I want to eat, and you don't know where and what lies.
So I did not use scales, but cups, pinches and other means - and thanks BOX, through which she controlled the dough, and the amount in cups or grams (how much to hang in grams) faded into the background.
It is important that the bread is tasty and tasty.

Admin, I always got great bread only thanks to your advice about the kolobok !!! And in the country she baked at home, first in Hitach 103, where everything is measured in cups, and now in Panas 255 - all measurements are in grams. I believe that the kolobok is a very significant factor that can be influenced to correct mistakes in a recipe or the quality of ingredients. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

Dear bakers! Tell me, who knows how to make bread denser, more like "bakery"? We have already played enough with our bread maker, rejoiced at the voluminous and light bread, we want an ordinary one (just don't send it to the store!).

Add low gluten flour. For example, barley (the flavor will be "pancake"), oatmeal, buckwheat (flavor), rye, corn or pea. You can pour the bran.
Or replace the vegetable oil with margarine (as is done in bakeries).

Whole grain can be added 30% - it will also turn out dense and dryish

Add low gluten flour. For example, barley (the flavor will be "pancake"), oatmeal, buckwheat (flavor), rye, corn or pea. You can pour the bran.
Or replace the vegetable oil with margarine (as is done in bakeries).

Of all the options offered, I can only add margarine. We have only wheat flour, and that terrible, floating one. And expensive Macfa

How many times have I made changes to this theme - and I just can't please!
And so bad - and so bad!

Admin,

Thank you very much for your knowledge that you share with us.

Do not make excuses to the dissatisfied, you are doing a great educational work.
I use scales, but I read EVERYTHING that you write with great interest and benefit for myself, including about the bun, and about the properties of flour. I found a lot of useful information.
After all, you want not just to mechanically measure and fill, but to understand the essence of the baking processes.

Thank you !!!

Admin,
Thank you very much for your knowledge that you share with us.
Do not make excuses to the dissatisfied, you are doing a great educational work.
I use scales, but I read EVERYTHING that you write with great interest and benefit for myself, including about the bun, and about the properties of flour. I found a lot of useful information.
After all, you want not just to mechanically measure and fill, but to understand the essence of the baking processes.
Thank you !!!

I join what was said and say - thank you) I learned a lot) But, mlyn, the more I learn, the more questions arise) Only the questions are no longer superficial - "hang up in grams", but what happens inside, what is better and more useful, etc. .d.
For example. I can't understand - we make bread "healthier" by removing premium flour, replacing it with coarse or non-wheat flour (where gluten is less) and then, in order to rise better, add panifarin (increase gluten). That is, minus by plus gives zero (in the sense that by adding panifarin we reduce the utility)?
And yet - I am very confused by recipes in which there is more yeast than 1.5 tsp. (in some recipes I found as much as 2.5).Is yeast harmful in large quantities, can it spit on a small rise by reducing the amount ?? Who can say what?

can spit on a small uplift by reducing the number ?? Who can say what?

With such recipes, I don't put 2 spoons, my stomach won't stand it. I just turn off the stove, let the dough come up a little more and turn on the baking.
And there was something that I forgot about the dough, when I remembered, it had already risen far, however, when baking, in this case, the roof falls ... it falls well, it has stopped, meaning ... so what, the taste is the same.
Has long ceased to pay attention to the roof, on the contrary, winding is more beautiful (if mixed bread)

[Rustic stove]

Girls, thanks for the kind words!

Rustic stove , I do this work "not for the sake of glory." I also read all your messages, "moans and cry", and I myself go through them and also stumble, only I have a little more experience and observation than beginners.
And if I can combine and describe all the mistakes made by beginners on paper "for the edification of posterity" - why not!

And the most important thing is that these "edifications" work! Well, to your health!

And when it comes to criticism not in the business, I constantly remember the English proverb: "Apparently our business is to criticize a lot of things that are not our business to do."

So, everything is fine, we continue to bake bread, I want to eat!

Everything is correct Korata, the more you learn, the more incomprehensible. I am not a proponent of additives and yeast augmentation. I try to make bread with yeast “within reason”. This mainly applies to baking white bread. I look at the ingredients and determine what I will get out of it - soft light or heavy bread and which one is preferable for my family personally, I make a mark on the recipe for the future, I make my own additions and replacements - and so gradually my favorite recipes are collected. It's good to experiment with baking, but you don't want to constantly feed the birds either.

Celestine, right, it is better to give the bread a longer distance. When baking in a bread maker with a programmed program, the bread does not have enough time to really distance itself, in the bread maker everything is done in miniature. If you bake bread in the oven, the complete baking cycle is completely different in time. Therefore, many points are compensated by the increased yeast content. Please note that there is a lot of yeast in the "quick bread" program, because the rise time is reduced.

For example. I can't understand - we make bread "healthier" by removing the premium flour, replacing it with coarse or non-wheat flour (where gluten is less) and then, in order to rise better, add panifarin (increase the gluten). That is, minus by plus gives zero (in the sense that by adding panifarin we reduce the utility)?

I also thought about it, came to this conclusion.
The use of "rough" flour is not that it has little gluten, but that it contains more fiber, that is, it is more useful for our digestive tract, pampered with premium flour and other refined products.
Accordingly, we add it (whole grain, rye, and other flours) not to decrease gluten (gluten), but to increase the amount of fiber.
But the gluten itself is necessary for us to rise, so we kind of replenish it in the dough, adding panifarin.

And yet - I am very confused by recipes in which there is more yeast than 1.5 tsp. (in some recipes I found as much as 2.5). Is yeast harmful in large quantities, can it spit on a small rise by reducing the amount ?? Who can say what?

For me, 1.5 tsp. - this is also a kind of limit) The hand does not rise any more (by size M, I mean). If it seems to me that there is a bit too much yeast in this recipe, I simply reduce it, of course not by several times, but gradually, by 0.25 tsp. you can safely - it will not affect the rise at all