Utensils for cooking (pots, pans, lids) (2)

[variety]

variety
Thanks for the kind words! Our tasks are much more modest, we are not going to overwhelm anyone, we just want to give consumers the opportunity to choose fully functional, high-quality dishes at a reasonable price. We are for healthy competition

[Wit]

Wit, You are perceptive Well, yes, I juggled a little, juggled with words, offered slogans "with a double bottom" and a little "angry" subtext: there was such a mood, both good and "not very" On the one hand, Mr. Catlery I was glad that everything with the bowl is good, you can use it. On the other hand, I was tired of washing this bowl, so the whole world and each earthling separately got a "frying pan" Yes, here we are, girls, capricious

, Earth! I won't be like this anymore
PS Oh, it seems that right now they will come and "pochikat" me

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, oh, do not be shy - "that soldier is bad who does not dream of becoming a general" (s)! The higher the goals we set, the more results we achieve (I don't remember who, but said). Why are we worse than the Germans or the Swiss? You look, n-th number of years will pass, and TM Kuhar will sound on a par with, for example, WMF, ELO, Silampos (or whoever you like more there)

[variety]

variety,
Yes, your words, yes to God in the ears. Everything must go through the natural path of development, which requires both time and patience and, no matter how trite it sounds, money, that is, investments. In general, we will try not to disappoint your expectations.

then "the pan will save the world!"

"It's corny, Hobotov!" (from)
And where is the play on words, where is the subtext and the double bottom, I ask you ?! In pots, the bottom is already 4-layer, which means that the slogan must have several layers, otherwise it is boring and no-an-t-res-na! It is necessary that the slogan could be "this way and that" in the head to scroll, so that it was not "like everyone else." In general, as with the selection of dishes: it seems that there is one goal, but each one chooses in his own way, based on his vision, style and understanding. And how are we, the hostesses: it would seem that we will not add anything except "pepper", but we get a completely different taste

Dear experts and users of different pots, I have such a question. There was a need to purchase pots (small volume) for soups-compotes-porridges, from which they should be made so that you could leave, for example, soup in them for 2-3 days.

I think that there is nothing better than stainless steel for these purposes. Especially the compote soup.

Plus, I'll add on my own that the handles of the pots should be microwelded, and not riveted. For if the handles are riveted, then this indicates that the steel of the side of the pan is thin and cannot withstand welding. And rivets are made from a soft material that darkens and reacts with dishwasher detergent (and your food too!).

Hello dear.
I read a lot of the 58 pages written, but not all, if you didn’t see anything, please don’t throw rotten tomatoes)
After reading the thread, I saw that there are specialists to whom, in fact, I would like to turn to the "teapot" of dishware. At the moment I need a ladle up to 1 liter, I really want to have a spout (boil water) and a frying pan (20-22 cm diameter).

What I have experience of communication with:
-since 95 at home sets of pots Zepter (daily use) and glasses (used 3 times)
- since 2012 on the Arbat in a company store I bought a large (26cm) frying pan with a URA bottom.
- there is a 1.5 liter pot with a long handle VSMPO Gourmet - a nice saucepan.
- I recently screwed up a small Chinese dipper Vitess, which stood for an hour on gas without water, then I wiped it off, but it became covered with grooves in which rust is visible. Before that it worked well.

As for the Zepter, all the pots work constantly and well, but I did not make friends with the frying pan from the set, probably because it has two handles like pots.
About URA frying pan. On the first day I tried to organize scrambled eggs without butter on it, everything stuck. But pancakes and everything else fried with butter comes out great on it, it is washed in the dishwasher (though the pancakes are not washed off in the machine), the lid from old pots fits on it, in general everything is ok. If you run your finger along the bottom, all the irregularities are pleasant to the touch.
Now we need another smaller pan. I don’t want to give more than 7 thousand for Europe (zepter) and so on. I would like to buy a normal non-Chinese stainless steel pan.
I found two options.
I. VSMPO (Frying pan Gourmet "Classic" diameter 20 cm, no lid, stainless steel, triple bottom, corrugated surface), touched it in Elektronika in Presnya, and it seemed somehow very high furrows stick out, rough.
II. Kuhar - Frying pan 1.8 l. "Lotus Classic" (22 cm) with metal cover, micro grill surface. I didn't see it in reality, but in the picture on the site, you can't see what kind of surface there is.
You also need a ladle for boiling water, preferably with a spout, as I understood with a spout, this is either China or a Kuhar coffee pot. Maybe someone else will advise where to look. Let me explain why you don't really want a coffee pot. In the old Chinese Vitess, 0.2 - 0.4-0.6 liters are marked inside and this is convenient, in addition, it is in the form of a flat ladle with a diameter of 12 cm, and not a figured coffee pot (easier to wash).

I would also very much like to hear clear answers to questions about the production of tableware.
1. VSMPO dishes are produced in Verkhnyaya Salda, on the Internet I found that dishes are made from imported Spanish, Finnish, etc. steel. Is this correct information?
2. Are all Kuhar utensils produced in Smorgon in Belarus? Or, as they say on the Internet in China, there is also a pro-in? If so, how to find out what exactly is being done in Belarus. And whose steel is used?
3. Someone can tell where the Zepter is being done now. When they bought at 95, they spoke in Switzerland, now they speak in Italy. And maybe where else?
4. Are there manufacturers of stainless steel and utensils from it in the post-Soviet space?
Thank you if anyone reads this treatise and answers something.

I. VSMPO (Frying pan Gourmet "Classic" diameter 20 cm, no lid, stainless steel, triple bottom, corrugated surface), touched it in Elektronika in Presnya, and it seemed somehow very high furrows stick out, rough.

So she's probably for the grill? I just use the usual smooth ones, I don't have a grill grate, I don't want to pick out what is burnt.

As for the grill, it is not positioned, just a grooved surface in the description. For grilling, it seems to me that the protrusions are higher and even, parallel to each other, then on the product, even stripes are obtained after the grill. Here the purpose of the protrusions is different, - the non-stick effect is just that they are not smooth, as on the Zepter hurray. So far it also confuses me.

I would also very much like to hear clear answers to questions about the production of tableware.
1. VSMPO dishes are produced in Verkhnyaya Salda, on the Internet I found that dishes are made from imported Spanish, Finnish, etc. steel. Is this correct information?
2. Are all Kuhar utensils produced in Smorgon in Belarus? Or, as they say on the Internet in China, there is also a pro-in? If so, how to find out what exactly is being done in Belarus. And whose steel is used?
3. Someone can tell where the Zepter is being done now. When they bought at 95, they spoke in Switzerland, now they speak in Italy. And maybe where else?
4. Are there manufacturers of stainless steel and utensils from it in the post-Soviet space?
Thank you if anyone reads this treatise and answers something.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=186131.0

On issue 1: VSMPO dishes are really produced in Verkhnyaya Salda according to the full production cycle from imported stainless steel, at the moment it is stainless steel. POSCO steel of South Korean production because the minimum import customs duty applies to this manufacturer.
On issue No. 2: All cookware of the Kukhar trademark is produced in Smorgon, Grodno region. (Belarus) for an incomplete production cycle from imported parts (containers, lids, handles) from stainless steel produced in Southeast Asia (China, South Korea). Specifically in Smorgon, operations of welding, finishing, polishing, and creating microgrill surfaces are performed.
On question # 3: At the moment, the Zepter dishes are made in Italy, and the Zepter cutlery in China.
On issue No. 4. In the post-Soviet space, the only manufacturer of raw materials suitable for the production of pots is ChMK, which not very long ago finally mastered the production of cold-rolled sheet from 08X18H10 (analogue of AISI 304), which is currently used only by Nytva for the production of cutlery. and only because ChMK controls the aforementioned enterprise. Two main Russian manufacturers of stainless steel. ware AMET and VSMPO prefer to use steel produced by POSCO. Since 304 grade steel is made according to the standard and has a "standard" chemical. composition, then it is not of any decisive importance where exactly it was produced. The main difference between steels of grade 304 from various manufacturers is the% nickel content within the AISI tolerance (8-10.5%). The higher the% nickel, the more ductile the steel, which allows the cookware manufacturer to draw a deeper container out of the workpiece without defects. This has nothing to do with the quality of the steel itself. It is precisely the absence of its own accessible and competitive raw material base that is one of the reasons why the domestic "pot-making" occupies a rather modest segment of the overall domestic tableware market.

Thank you very much for your answer, mr.Catlery.
All clear. The sad thing is that neither in Russia nor in the Republic of Belarus there are full-cycle production facilities for such an elementary but vital thing as dishes, plumbing, etc. We cannot build a single pots without Asia, but we claim something (
Good luck in your business, you may be able to improve something in your field.

And you could not comment on the question with the pans, if you have time.
Thank you.

[Katrine]

Katrine,
The modern world production of stainless steel (over 40%) is concentrated in China, large production facilities operate in South Korea. in Taiwan, Japan. The main production facilities for the production of tableware are accordingly concentrated in China. The specificity of the pot-spoon production consists in the rather significant semi-automatic and manual components of the manufacturing technology. Accordingly, a significant part of the cost is salary. The climatic conditions of South China cannot be compared with the European ones. All this makes any similar European production a priori uncompetitive. If at the initial stage European products really excelled Chinese ones in quality, now almost all the leading European dish brands (Fissler, WMF, Silit, etc.) order a significant part of their products from Chinese factories. And it's not just about the lower price. In this case, the quality and full functionality of the cookware depends entirely on the technical requirements and the customer's control system. Nowadays, European manufacturers mainly try to take the buyer with innovations, fashionable design, their original developments, and of course the previously earned brand image.
For pans, if possible, clarify your question. The type of stove and the main purpose (what dishes are planned to be cooked on it).
By the way, about the ladle - in the Kuhara Lotus series at the beginning of summer such a 12cm should appear. cap.0.6l., With glass a lid, a measuring scale inside and a drain spout ... At the moment, the Lotus series has a 14cm ladle. with spout and measuring scale.

At the moment I need a bucket up to 1 liter, I really want to have a spout

You can watch from Teskoma 🔗

Just a small 1 liter and with a spout
Or 🔗


🔗

🔗

🔗
True, some without a nose.
You can navigate by prices, for example, here 🔗
but you can find cheaper
I could also advise you to consider the option of a "milkman"

You can also see pans there.
In principle, many European companies have such dishes. Some of which is actually produced in China.
You were advised correctly by Gourmet, Amet, you can see the Portuguese Silampos. 🔗
Turkish pans aren't bad under some different brands. But now they are somehow few in Russia.
Metro Cash & Carry sells stainless steel pans from a famous French company
🔗

But this is a professional series.
She also has a lot of beautiful "home" dishes, but not very cheap. can be viewed there on the site.


The German ZWILLING J.A. has a stainless steel. HENCKELS
🔗

Have the German Fissler
🔗

German WMF has
🔗

But these are all world leaders in tableware production, so prices for many lines are relatively high, especially in Russia.
But there are stainless dishes that are even more expensive, refined
For example, the Italian Ruffoni
🔗
The link does not open directly, you need to select the OPUS collection in the "search by type"
With exclusive cast silver handles

But very expensive.
Everyone decides for himself what he needs and what he can afford.

2 mr.Catlery
I understand about competitiveness, steel standards, etc.
It just seems to me that a country occupying the 6th part of the world is obliged to have all full cycle production facilities, and not just nuclear weapons, in order to keep this sixth part of the land. Moreover, monotowns are out of work, and adult men solve crosswords, working as security guards. But this is off topic))) Although it seems to me that your situation is better with production.

Regarding the frying pan, I need a universal frying pan of about 20 cm made of stainless steel, which can be washed in the dishwasher (I twist the plastic handles of the Zepter). Gas stove. In principle, I was thinking about another Zepter with URA, but so far I have postponed the purchase since it is too expensive. I was delighted when I saw VSMPO on the website, the price is super. But in reality I touched them, somehow the circles at the bottom seemed rough to me. And with yours I don’t understand what kind of bottom the grill surface is called. I use frying pans mainly for frying pancakes, so it would be more convenient to have two. And sometimes I fry meat for my husband, but this is a couple, three times a year)) (he is not hungry, we just have a good oven)

As for the scoop, what you described would be very convenient. I really don't need a lid) But 12 cm is an ideal diameter for me for such a small volume, because in fact I boil water there, and occasionally make coffee.

Counselor, thanks for the options. But Tesku watched, some kind of flattened and plastic handle in a dishwasher at a high temperature would peel off. y debuyer, zwilling, they have no drain buckets

I was delighted when I saw VSMPO on the website, the price is super. But in reality I touched them, somehow the circles at the bottom seemed rough to me.

Why grill for 6lins? I've always fried in even pans that they are tiny, that's wrong, right?

I don't know, I somehow stuck and burned on a flat stainless steel) Maybe from improper growth of hands) And when URA bought Zepter, everything is ok on it)

[Katrine]

Katrine
I didn't even try to fry on stainless steel until I was told that it was possible.) Then I sold it out and really liked it. Not to say that I fry everything straight, but a lot. I don't buy corrugated ones due to the fact that if it sticks on a smooth one, then washing and scrubbing is not a problem, but if it pours into the holes and burns, then it's not a fact that the dishwasher will cope with it the first time. (Moreover, on a stainless steel, the protruding parts 6 will be noticeably colder than the lower ones.

I baked these thin, moderately ruddy pancakes on this Shrovetide, just on a stainless domestic Ametovsk frying pan with a polished bottom, 19 cm in diameter at the bottom. The whole trick is that I put the frying pan on the flame divider made of a very fine mesh. And she fried pancakes on a regular (not shallow!) Gas burner, turned on at full power. The frying pan, since it is stainless, I always wash in the dishwasher.

That is why Bijou (because of the holes) I bought a Zepter URA, its bottom is not even, but not to say corrugated, it seems to have an uneven profile, there are no holes, you also run it like on a smooth surface with a sponge or put it in a dishwasher. they have it on the site. I would have bought a second one, but expensive they cost 8.5 rubles without a lid two years ago, how much the little one did not even recognize yet, but I think with the current course, no less. Therefore, I was delighted when I found out about ours and Belarusian. Moreover, when there is an opportunity, I try to buy the products of the post-Soviet republics.

Creamy, thanks, about the flame splitter idea, I need to buy it, I think it will come in handy

[there are no prerequisites for the creation of such new, full-cycle production facilities in the Russian Federation]

It just seems to me that a country occupying the 6th part of the world is obliged to have all the production of a full cycle, and not just nuclear weapons, in order to keep this sixth part of the land. Moreover, monotowns are out of work, and adult men solve crosswords, working as security guards. But this is off topic))) Although it seems to me that your situation is better with production. More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=186131.0

It seems to be so, but it happened so historically that pot-making in Soviet times was a kind of extra. "load" for metallurgy enterprises, which worked, including for defense. Most of the remaining productions are "consumer goods shops", which at one time were organized at large enterprises. Many of these workshops never survived the collapse of the post-Soviet era. We had few specialized dishware enterprises and no more of them. When it became possible for commercial firms to carry everything from over the hill. then no one bothers with production especially. Business has its own laws: capital turnover, profitability, profit. And any even primitive production requires extraordinary organizational skills of the businessmen themselves, investments in fixed assets, a staff of skilled workers and specialists, etc. Regular wholesale trade is simpler and more profitable. For its part, all these years, the state has been conducting a rather strange policy, which defended primarily the interests of importers. This is why AMET and VSMPO work better with South Korean POSCO than with domestic ChMK. Pot production requires large investments in tools (die tooling). To make a new shape of the container, you must have a tool. To minimize this component in the cost price, it is necessary to have large volumes of production. And domestic manufacturers do not have them - the monthly output of VSMPO is a little more than 10 thousand conventional pots, while AMETA has about 40 thousand. products and this is in the season of maximum sales. For the Russian tableware market, this is a drop in the ocean. Therefore, for VSMPO and AMET, the entire dish row is kept on type 1 of the container (pots differ only in handles). From such a position, it is very difficult to develop and compete with imports (raw materials from distant foreign countries, climatic conditions are incommensurate, labor resources are more expensive). Everyone who could potentially invest in the creation of such industries clearly understands all this, and at the moment the situation is such that there are no prerequisites for the creation of such new, full-cycle production facilities in the Russian Federation Despite the seeming "unemployment" of the population in our small towns, it is not so easy to find normal workers, who do not drink, who take responsibility for their work, and who are ready to do it with high quality and skill.

here and in big cities it is difficult to find competent employees in any field. because it is not the state ideology that professionals are the most valuable resource.Well, maybe if they impose sanctions, they will itch)))

And about the pans)))

And where can qualified personnel come from? We in the North (Murm. O.) Have (were) 4 large ship-repair enterprises for the Navy. There were specialists, some equipment remained. Not only did they not save the staff, they also cut them down or fled themselves. Who will stay? There are vacancy offers. Only, for example, the pay for engineers is indicated - 15,000. And this is taking into account the increasing coefficient (premium) of 50% for the North and 80% for work in the Arctic Circle, i.e. in the middle lane this pay would be 6.000. And this is at an enterprise that repairs warships.

[Katrine]

Katrine
Now, as for the pans: the mini-grill, or as you called them "holes", can be washed without problems in the dishwasher, serviced is no more complicated than a frying pan with a smooth bottom, but ... it works much better with many dishes. For example, here is a selection of links on what and how you can cook on a mini grill: 🔗... (stewpan Magnolia). In the Zepter frying pan with URA, I carried out special research and sea trials of this product. The results of these studies were published in the journal PRO MAISON (Ukraine) in No. 4 for 2013. You can read this article here: 🔗 ... About what a frying pan with a microgrill from Kuhar is, how it looks and what is on it and how it is cooked, you can see the links here: 🔗... / 3456? St = 1140 # entry55470. I would also like to note that the Kuhara and URA microgrills from Zepter differ in appearance, average roughness parameters (dimensions of surface artifacts), manufacturing technology and, of course, in price. The "Cheops pyramids" that can be observed on the URA surface do not carry any functional load, being an element of decor and design. You can functionally compare how the Kuhara mini-grill and the Zepter frying pan with URA work in a video posted on YouTube. Here's how the pancake microgrill prototype works, see:, and here's how Zepter works with URA, see:. Macro grills (these are such "waves" on the surface as on the Gourmet) are not very functional, they practically do not differ from the work of a smooth surface and have no effect on the preparation of main dishes. A certain positive effect can be observed only when roasting large pieces of meat (steaks). In general, for stainless steel pans, their main disadvantage is their too smooth inner surface ... because the technology of their manufacture is absolutely no different from the technology of making pots. But in practice, frying pans and pots with different working bodies, at different temperature conditions, work. The anti-stick effect of the microgrill, by the way, works not only on the surface of the frying pan in the cooktop position, but also in the oven, which cannot be said for pans with a smooth inner surface ...

[igorechek]

igorechek
Unfortunately, this is a general trend. Even if a miracle happens and the government suddenly starts to stimulate and finance the creation of new industries, then a competent, qualified engineer will have to be looked for in the daytime with fire, and it is quite possible that there will only be such ... abroad (because there are no other people), and the workers will be taught to work , on an internship somewhere in Germany or China. And it's not even a matter of decent wages, in order for the company's products to be competitive, it must have modern equipment and technologies, competent technical specialists who have passed a good school, there must be continuity from the specialists of the previous generation of such technical specialists. Without qualified technical personnel, any plant turns into a collective farm doomed to ruin and liquidation

[Katrine]

But very expensive. Everyone decides for himself what he needs and what he can afford.

With the current exchange rate of the ruble against the euro, the possibilities of purchasing Zwilling and WMF are rapidly decreasing at exactly the same rate as the rate is growing. The recommended Ruffoni frying pan is completely unsuitable for normal, comfortable frying, although with silver handles and does not cost little money, Fissler and WMF ladles do not have containers with a displacement of less than 1 liter. Well, Tescoma is completely ordinary, ordinary Chinese-made dishes only at more expensive prices than similar ones from other brands. So choose what you really need Katrine, not really anything

For example, here is a selection of links on what and how you can cook on a mini grill: 🔗... (stewpan Magnolia)

Thank you so much. It is perfectly visible with what black soot almost all the "holes" in the second example with fried potatoes are covered.

[Bijou]

Bijou,
.... after which they were filled with boiling water and washed without any problems. There, further along the play, there is a photo of the state of this item. I have such a stewpan at home for almost 3 years in operation and I am ready to present a photo of its current state. You can still talk about "holes" for a long time and tediously, without having the product itself and theoretically, purely speculatively evaluating how everything accumulates in these "holes". In reality, the mini-grill is washed in exactly the same way as a pan with a smooth bottom.

Thanks again to everyone.
Mr. Catlery, I did not talk about the holes in your frying pan, I did not understand the profile there at all, the magnolia is big for me 24 cm.
As I understand it, you have the smallest: Frying pan 1.8L 22 cm. "Lotus Tradition" with metal lid, micro grill surface - I don't understand the bottom profile. The site looks like it is smooth.

[Katrine]

Katrine
It is actually not smooth, but with a micro-relief of a different profile and shallower than the URA.

Thanks mr.Catlery.
And in Moscow you will not be close. time? Do your distributors go to fairs, for example? Or maybe some stores are taking it for sale.

Here earlier in the text there are contacts of our Moscow representatives, some members of the forum have already established contact with them.

And thin soapy pads with impregnation very much help out when something needs to be removed from the surface and where it is impossible and undesirable to scrape, especially Teflon and baking trays.
Yesterday I scrubbed the oven inside with them, no scratches remained, well, if you use them carefully More: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=186131.0

Tatyana, I seem to have read the whole topic to the end, I did not see these pads. Can you show a photo or tell in more detail what kind of pads are?

Where did my messages go?

[Olga]

Olga, apparently stayed on the old site)

[Olga]

Olga, apparently stayed on the old site)

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, tell me please, urgently and urgently!
A neighbor is going to Belarus to visit her relatives the other day, she is lucky, she is taken to fulfill my request!
First of all, I need that "Kitchen" pan with a "magic" bottom (it seems, a micro-grill surface).
Does it exist in one form or do they have different types and models?
It is necessary to tell her specifically which one, so that she can buy what she needs.
Or share a link so that I can write off the name of this "miracle".
... in general, so - in the first place is the requirement for a micro grill surface (less important is a glass lid, it is desirable, but not necessary).

[Inusya]

Inusya, also urgently duplicate the message to him on the Smorgon site. I gave the link somewhere above, not far away.

🔗... / 3456? St = 1140 # entry55470 - look here, then leave your message.
And here finally there are a lot of all sorts of links to it: Sent: 13 March 2014, 13:36

Vit, thank you, you are a real friend! ... I went to joke.

[Inusya]

Inusya,
These are KUKHAR frying pans of the Lotus series, volume. 1.8l. with fittings "Classic" or "Tradition" at the bottom in the clemo there is an inscription microgrill surface. In addition, the appearance of the inner surface of this frying pan differs from all others.

: girl_claping: Good morning everyone !! Muscovites who want to order Kuhar dishes can call Ella, next week they plan to go to Smorgon.

I want to tell you about the portioned pans "Gourmet".I took 20 cm for a test (16 cm is more convenient) with a 3-layer bottom. And since then it has turned out to be one of the most demanded containers. The fact is that in our family, due to different working hours and studies, they often eat at different times. And this frying pan was very useful. On induction, it warms up no worse than in a microwave. Plus, due to the multi-layered bottom, food cools down much more slowly. You can eat straight from the pan. (I spied on Asian TV shows. They often eat straight from the portioned pots in which they initially cook.) The size of an ordinary plate. Convenient lid. Scrambled eggs for 1-2 portions, 1-2 cutlets fry, stew vegetables for 1 person, casserole in the oven, etc. - just right for a portioned frying pan.

[Ipatiya]

Ipatiyareally very nice. Maybe someday I'll buy it too, thanks for the story.
But I also think that 20 cm is too much - I have such a frying pan for browning and frying, this size is not personal even once.
Yes, what Gourmet does great is it heats up by induction, faster than my other pans.

[Lena]

But I also think that 20 cm is too much - I have such a frying pan for browning and frying, this size is not personal even once.

Lena, you're right! Initially, I took it for frying for small portions. And then I liked it so much that I had to adapt. Next time, if there is an action, I will take it by 16 cm. When I saw it for the first time, I did not understand the practical meaning of these babies, so I was reinsured. What I love most about them is that the food stays hot longer.

Are there no such pans in Ukraine yet?

Alas, and not yet. He says that he is trying to establish contacts, but has not yet succeeded.

And cn?