Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

Well, wow, what a beauty the first time! And how delicious, probably!

And what holes!

Well, wow, what a beauty the first time! And how delicious, probably!

Well, you, too, did not work poorly the first time

And what holes!
Well, you, too, did not work poorly the first time

No, well, I had 4 g of yeast, and Anya even without yeast on one sourdough did not have bread, but straight Roquefort cheese. What a vigorous leaven, however, came out!
And I baked on mine today as a gift to matchmakers. A wonderful bread came out. I really thought that the leaven died in the refrigerator or so, I didn't look there for three weeks, there was no time for baking. And then I look, it even looks normal, and the smell of spoiling is not audible. There a couple of times left. Tomorrow I'll put it again, Or rather today. For the night. It is more comfortable. I got up in the morning and can bake. True, water and flour are added once, but I liked today's bread. Externally. Didn't taste it, gave it uncut. Tomorrow I'll bake mine, then I'll write the result.

I baked bread with sourdough in a bread maker .... the poor fellow flew into the trash bin .... I knew it ... they probably overpriced, they also wanted to put it on for proofing, and bake from the guests upon arrival. Today there will be attempt number 3 ... however, before work, there was no time to wait for the starter to warm up, I had to put the leaven like this.

Tanya, congratulations on a very important dinner party

I baked bread in a bread maker with sourdough ... he flew to the trash bin .... I knew it ... they probably overpriced it, and I wanted to put it on for proofing, and bake from the guests upon arrival. Today there will be attempt number 3 ... however, before work, there was no time to wait for the starter to warm up, I had to put the leaven like this.

Tanya, congratulations on a very important dinner party

Thank you, Anh. Dinner went well, everyone enjoyed it.
Do you hear, I do not quite understand - did you put the cold starter from the refrigerator into the dough right away? They don't put it in the dough, it's not sourdough yet. It is necessary to take 40 g from the starter, add flour, water, mix and leave to stand in the room for 7 to 12 hours. And as it rises and begins to fall, then put it in the dough and bake. Therefore, it probably did not work out.

[All according to the recipe + 1.5 grams of dry yeast.]

And I baked on mine today as a gift to matchmakers. A wonderful bread came out. I really thought that the leaven died in the refrigerator or so, I didn't look there for three weeks, there was no time for baking. And then I look, it even looks normal, and the smell of spoiling is not audible. There are still a couple of times left. Tomorrow I'll put it again, Or rather today. For the night. It is more comfortable. I got up in the morning and can bake. True, water and flour are added once, but I liked today's bread. Externally. Didn't taste it, gave it uncut. Tomorrow I'll bake mine, then I'll write the result.

Tanyush !!!
Sourdough tests are going well.!

Thank you, Anh. Dinner went well, everyone enjoyed it.

With matchmakers, too, everything is going fine (ugh ugh ugh!) So that everything will continue to be fine too, and let the bread help you!

I baked bread with sourdough in a bread maker .... the poor fellow flew into the trash bin .... I knew it ... they probably overpriced, they also wanted to put it on for proofing, and bake from the guests upon arrival. Today there will be attempt number 3 ... however, before work, there was no time to wait for the starter to warm up, I had to put the leaven like this.

Anya, hello!
Yesterday I decided to specially try to make this Omeline bread on beer, to see what and how. In general, I love Mistletoe recipes, I bake some of them all the time. But I haven't tried this one - she has a lot of them.
She took out a spoonful of sourdough from the refrigerator - this very one - 50 g. Fed: 100 warm water + 100 rye flour = 250 g. Covered with foil, left. We are now hot 30 *. After 4.5 hours, this is what happened:


See the holes? And it has already begun to fall slightly from above - which means you can bake bread. Pay attention: I diluted it with warm water, and I have 30 * in the kitchen. I kneaded the dough - the "Dough" program in the KhP, in the KhP it defended for 40 minutes. All according to the recipe + 1.5 grams of dry yeast.
I formed a blank, put it in a mold:


After 1 hour:



And here are the bubbles:



And here is the bread:


Your leaven is good and works, she already showed it. But we must, of course, revive it, feed it after the refrigerator. And you can, if you want, of course, add quite a bit of yeast, and then the proving time is greatly reduced. Tanya has 4 grams of fresh, and I have 1.5 dry, which is the same. And 1 hour instead of 6 hours (Mistletoe has 3.5 hours on a very active leaven)

Ira, can you imagine, baked, as she was going to, bread and baked ... without leaven. She took her out, darling, fed her, gave her a drink at night. In the morning I look - it's time to bake bread. And the head can’t cook. Took loaded, like an idiot, all the components, and less water, taking into account the one in the leaven. And only then it dawned on me that I had drunk all the rye flour according to the recipe, and did not take into account 120 g, which are in sourdough. In short, I added more yeast and sinter. And she put the leavened culture in the refrigerator. Now, on the second call, I put another bread, the same, but with sourdough. The husband will take one to work, and one to us.

And sho happened ??? !!!

And sho happened ??? !!!

No, it turned out delicious. This bread is delicious with both yeast and sourdough. Our constant bread recipe.

I delivered a semi-finished product today. I really hope that at least I can grow this one. The eternal one still had to be thrown away, my kefir is kind of deadly, the bread practically does not rise. The inside is very heavy. Therefore, please advise the recipe, so that it would EXACTLY turn out bread on this leaven WITHOUT adding yeast, on a young one.

Thank you, Anh. Dinner went well, everyone enjoyed it.
Do you hear, I do not quite understand - did you put the cold starter from the refrigerator into the dough right away? They don't put it in the dough, it's not sourdough yet. It is necessary to take 40 g from the starter, add flour, water, mix and leave to stand in the room for 7 to 12 hours. And as it rises and begins to fall, then put it in the dough and bake. Therefore, it probably did not work out.

The starter is cold, I added 100g of water and flour right from the refrigerator and went to work, now I will knead ... and the one that I did in the bread maker was also made from sourdough after 12 hours of fermentation ... why it didn’t work, I don’t know, probably there was not enough time on the rise ...

The starter is cold, I added 100g of water and flour right from the refrigerator and went to work, now I will knead ... and the one that I did in the bread maker was also made from sourdough after 12 hours of fermentation ... why it didn’t work, I don’t know, probably there was not enough time on the rise ...

And she didn't put in the yeast again, maybe add a little more, or maybe she forgot to put it in? I somehow forgot to put the salt, so it came out so bad, just awful.

Anya, hello!

Ira, hello! Yesterday I returned home very late and did not have time to thank you for the wonderful master class in making bread, he certainly is handsome in capable hands. And thanks for the bubbles, I have never seen such bubbles on my bread, but I hope that everything is ahead of me.

Since yesterday I returned around 23.00 and really wanted to sleep, I had to get out as follows: I took my sourdough, which had been on the table since 7.00 in the morning, added 200 g of warm water there, stirred it, and added 200 g of rye flour "Zhmenka" and put it all in the oven for 1 hour with the light on. (Original recipe here

Criticism is accepted, cut straight hot, you had to run to work. Thank you all very much.

And she didn't put in the yeast again, maybe add a little more, or maybe she forgot to put it in? I somehow forgot to put the salt, so it came out so bad, just awful.

I didn’t put down the yeast, the whole point in mastering ferments is lost for me, with yeast breads and without ferment, a handsome man turns out.

[VIKI]

I delivered a semi-finished product today. I really hope that at least I can grow this one. The eternal one still had to be thrown away, my kefir is kind of deadly, the bread practically does not rise. The inside is very heavy. Therefore, please advise the recipe, so that it would EXACTLY turn out bread on this leaven WITHOUT adding yeast, on a young one.

Here I am now on a young yeast-free sourdough and trying to bake bread ... sourdough recipe on page 1, Thank you VIKI

I mastered pure rye bread with sourdough without yeast. I can share my experience.

I mastered pure rye bread with sourdough without yeast. I can share my experience.

with pleasure!

I delivered a semi-finished product today. I really hope that at least I can grow this one. The eternal one still had to be thrown away, my kefir is kind of deadly, the bread practically does not rise. The inside is very heavy. Therefore, please advise the recipe, so that it would EXACTLY turn out bread on this leaven WITHOUT adding yeast, on a young one.

Well, BYSENKA bakes without adding. But, you know, it is yeast that raises bread in all sourdoughs, and in this one too. And it started up on industrial yeast, which was supposed to die in 18 hours (by the way, someone here asked Viki, where did this infa come from that they would die and it was in 18 hours, but I didn't find an answer, maybe I just didn't see it.). Well, and they will die, as I understand it, in an unequal struggle with wild yeast, which in unmeasured quantities and it is not known what is bred in sourdough. And not only in this one, but in any one. And it is they who then raise the dough. And why don't you understand who is better than industrial ones, I don't know, I'm not a microbiologist. So if we want bread to be without yeast at all, then we are looking for recipes with soda or baking powder. And if we agree to wild yeast and against the addition of industrial yeast, then we bake with sourdough. I think this can be done with young sourdoughs and according to any recipe you like. Just watch the rise on the proofer. On a young sourdough, it will simply mature longer.
And I like this leaven. I also add a bit of industrial yeast. Why do I bake with sourdough if I don't have a strong bias against industrial yeast? Well, who knows. I like the bread on it, and the savings on conventional yeast are significant. Now a pack of 100 g is almost enough for me for a month.

I mastered pure rye bread with sourdough without yeast. I can share my experience.

I'm also interested. Share, pliz.

I mastered pure rye bread with sourdough without yeast. I can share my experience.

.

The sourdough was grown according to the recipe of Vicky and Raisin ( https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=17861.0). I will make a reservation right away: do not store the leaven in the refrigerator!

And should it be stored in a room at approximately what temperature?

[tatianika]

tatianika, thanks, I want to try to make it purely rye.

Ira, can you imagine, baked, as she was going to, bread and baked ... without leaven. She took her out, darling, fed her, gave her a drink at night. In the morning I look - it's time to bake bread. And the head can’t cook. Took loaded, like an idiot, all the components, and less water, taking into account the one in the leaven. And only then it dawned on me that I had drunk all the rye flour according to the recipe, and did not take into account the 120 g, which were in sourdough. In short, I added more yeast and sinter. And put the leavened culture in the refrigerator. Now, on the second run, I put another loaf of the same, but with sourdough. The husband will take one to work, and one to us.

Tanya, have you already left the matchmakers there? I'm reading a message here with a slow ignition ...

I keep it in the kitchen, near the window. I feed every other day in summer, less often in winter. I feed a couple of times before baking. I take 50 grams of flour and 50 ml of water, 1 teaspoon of sourdough. Check it out at Vicki, everything is well described. I gave a link.

I keep it in the kitchen, near the window. I feed every other day in summer, less often in winter. I feed a couple of times before baking. I take 50 g of flour and 50 ml of water, 1 teaspoon of sourdough. Check it out at Vicki, everything is well described there. I gave a link.

Thank you, tatianika, I will definitely read it. I still bake rye on a semi-finished product. Not so long ago I started. As I play enough, I'll try this one. And I bake wheat on ripe dough. Also recently. And it always pulls on something new. Maybe I'll try something new there too.

Tanya, have you already left the matchmakers there? I'm reading a message here with a slow ignition ...

Anh, truncated is fine. Like in the song:
Us song bread helps to build and live.
She as a friend, he calls and leads.
And the one with song walks through life with bread,
He will never disappear anywhere!

Anh, truncated is fine. Like in the song:
Us song bread helps to build and live.
She as a friend, he calls and leads.
And the one with song walks through life with bread,
He will never disappear anywhere!

Well, nice ... my daughter gets older (we are almost 18) so the mondrage starts to break through me more

I changed the avatar, otherwise I will not go into the topic, and there are only mice, but no one has such a cat, this is our home

[to reduce the proving time]

Ira, hello! Yesterday I returned home very late and did not have time to thank you for the wonderful master class in making bread, he certainly is handsome in capable hands. And thanks for the bubbles, I have never seen such bubbles on my bread, but I hope that everything is ahead of me.

Since yesterday I returned around 23.00 and really wanted to sleep, I had to get out as follows: I took my sourdough, which had been on the table since 7.00 in the morning, added 200 g of warm water there, stirred it, and added 200 g of rye flour "Zhmenka" and put it all in the oven for 1 hour with the light on. (Original recipe here

Criticism is accepted, cut straight hot, you had to run to work. Thank you all very much.

No criticism! Well done! The bread turns out, the leaven works. A little experience - and you yourself will be a master class! The most important thing is that you can do what YOU want. You want without yeast - and it works! ... The fact that you did not succeed last time happens, especially at the beginning. I forgot to put something. I also had, like Tanya, that I forgot the salt - it's horror! Or something else ...
Personally, I agree with Tanya: sourdough is the same yeast, only of uncontrolled composition, and the ones that we have in the kitchen are in the air and on our hands. This is good or bad - but not at all. We coexist with these microorganisms perfectly. But even with ordinary yeast, we live perfectly all our lives. the more so because very little of them must be added to the leaven. So Zest adds them, to reduce the proving time, although he writes that you can not add them.
That is, it is our own choice - to put or not to put the yeast. For example, I choose a proofing shorter by 3-4 hours + 1 g of yeast. But this does not mean that this should be done. I respect people who know what they want!
As for the bubbles on the top crust: in my opinion, this is important for pure rye bread or where there is more than 75-80% rye flour. There is little gluten in rye flour, so there gas bubbles rise to the top and break through the top crust. As a few came out - you need to bake. And where there is more wheat flour, more gluten, the upper film on the workpiece is elastic, and bubbles should not break through it. My bread just stood a little. So about the bubbles, I suggest not to bother.
Good bread for you!

Irish, thank you for your support, the bread really turned out good, and the slow cooker made me happy.

Mona 1, I just want sourdough bread, no commercial yeast added. Interested in bread made with rye and whole grain flour.That is, you can take any recipe where yeast is added in addition to sourdough, and cook it with young sourdough? I do not understand how much to increase the amount of rye sourdough without industrial yeast.
So far, I'm just trying to grow sourdough, the eternal didn’t work. Kefir is very incomprehensible, there is life in it, But it is too weak, it rises very, very weakly and, accordingly, cannot raise the dough either.
I really hope for this leaven.

[how much to increase the amount of rye sourdough, that would be without industrial yeast.]

Mona 1, I just want sourdough bread, no commercial yeast added. Interested in bread made with rye and whole grain flour. That is, you can take any recipe where yeast is added in addition to sourdough, and cook it with young sourdough? I do not understand how much to increase the amount of rye sourdough, that would be without industrial yeast.
So far, I'm just trying to grow sourdough, the eternal didn’t work. Kefir is very incomprehensible, there is life in it, But it is too weak, it rises very, very weakly and, accordingly, cannot raise the dough either.
I really hope for this leaven.

I certainly don't Mona1, but for now I will answer that I know ... a little higher I wrote about bread with one leaven without yeast, and a couple of pages earlier without yeast, and everything just went up perfectly. As far as I understand, there is no need to increase the amount of sourdough, you will just have an increase in the time it will take to increase the dough. My first sourdough bread stood for almost 7 hours in the oven with the light on before I baked it. If I added at least a drop of yeast, then this time would be significantly reduced.

girls, I have a problem! Yesterday I looked at my sourdough, which was in the refrigerator, and it probably started to disappear. In it, there was not a single bubble, and the top began to turn gray. I quickly updated it with 1 tablespoon, so it began to bubble very lazily. During the night, increased by 2 times. I put it back in the refrigerator. And what should I do with her? Bake every other day? we don't eat so much bread. I made pancakes from the remains of the starter.

Write the date on it - the order is stored in the wardrobe for about 1 month, take 1-2 tbsp a day before baking. l. sourdough and start feeding it to the quantity you need, but the fact that the top is grayish is not scary, I have it too

Write the date on it - the order is stored in the wardrobe for about 1 month, a day before baking, take 1-2 tbsp. l. sourdough and start feeding it to the quantity you need, but the fact that the top is grayish is not scary, I have it too

I understand, everything is fine, it's just that my sourdough hasn't even had a week. I only baked on it on Saturday for the first time.

girls, I have a problem! Yesterday I looked at my sourdough, which was in the refrigerator, and it probably started to disappear. In it, there was not a single bubble, and the top began to turn gray. I quickly updated it with 1 tablespoon, so it began to bubble very lazily. During the night, increased by 2 times. I put it back in the refrigerator. And what should I do with her? Bake every other day? we don't eat so much bread. I made pancakes from the remains of the starter.

Hello, Anya!
In my opinion, there is no reason to worry. In the refrigerator, this leaven behaves this way: it sleeps, and there are no bubbles. And for me this leaven also behaved this way at first: it did not rise after the first feeding, and I also thought that I had lost it. But still she decided to continue with the recipe, and she gradually gained strength. Take your time, don't panic. "Calm, only calm" (Carlson)
I agree with Nut, you need to write the date, only you haven't even had a week. And a gray bloom is normal, I also always have it, do not pay attention to it.

Hello, Anya!
In my opinion, there is no reason to worry. In the refrigerator, this leaven behaves this way: it sleeps, and there are no bubbles. And for me this leaven also behaved this way at first: it did not rise after the first feeding, and I also thought that I had lost it. Still, she decided to continue with the recipe, and she gradually gained strength. Take your time, don't panic. "Calm, only calm" (Carlson)
I agree with Nut, you need to write the date, only you haven't even had a week. And a gray bloom is normal, I also always have it, do not pay attention to it.

Irish, Hello!

And I was already scared, well, my sourdough was lucky yesterday - it was fed once again

And I was already scared, well, my sourdough was lucky yesterday - it was fed once again

Yes, yes, it's good that you fed her one more time, at first it is not superfluous for her, and then over time, when there is only one spoon left, we feed her "from the belly", and then again and again ... so she through for a couple of months you will start to rise much better after feeding.
And so in the beginning it would be nice to add some yeast to the bread, well, tell me already that you are tired of it!

Mona 1, I just want sourdough bread, no commercial yeast added. Interested in bread made with rye and whole grain flour. That is, you can take any recipe where yeast is added in addition to sourdough, and cook it with young sourdough? I do not understand how much to increase the amount of rye sourdough without industrial yeast.
So far, I'm just trying to grow sourdough, the eternal didn’t work. Kefir is very incomprehensible, there is life in it, But it is too weak, it rises very, very weakly and, accordingly, cannot raise the dough either.
I really hope for this leaven.

I don’t bake pure rye or whole grain. Therefore, BYSENKA only baked, she answered you well. It seems to me that you take any recipe and try, only the proving time will be longer than without adding yeast. BYSENKA has such a handsome man! And so in a couple of weeks the leaven will begin to enter into force, it will be better and easier to raise the dough.

girls, I have a problem! Yesterday I looked at my sourdough, which was in the refrigerator, and it probably started to disappear. In it, there was not a single bubble, and the top began to turn gray. I quickly updated it with 1 tablespoon, so it began to bubble very lazily. During the night, increased by 2 times. I put it back in the refrigerator. And what should I do with her? Bake every other day? we don't eat so much bread. I made pancakes from the remains of the starter.

Anh, it's the same for me, there is no motive power and a gray coating. The leaven is sleeping, the yeast is in suspended animation. Because my temperature is 3 degrees. I haven't baked for three weeks, I thought I would throw it out. mixed it with a spoon so that this grayness would not irritate. As I understand it, it's just that the top has dried out a bit and the crust has become a little light. And what a wonderful bread she baked, just surprisingly good!

[well, tell me already that you are tired of it!]

Yes, yes, it's good that you fed her one more time, at first it is not superfluous for her, and then over time, when there is only one spoon left, we feed her "from the belly", and then again and again ... so she through for a couple of months you will start to rise much better after feeding.
And therefore, in the beginning it would be nice to add a ka-a-apelle of yeast to the bread, well, tell me already that you are tired of it![/ b]

Nope, until you get bored ...

Anh, it's the same for me, there is no motive power and a gray coating. The leaven is sleeping, the yeast is in suspended animation. Because my temperature is 3 degrees. I haven't baked for three weeks, I thought I would throw it out. mixed it with a spoon so that this grayness would not irritate. As I understand it, it's just that the top has dried out a bit and the crust has become a little light. And what a wonderful bread she baked, just surprisingly good!

and I have 6 degrees in the refrigerator, you can make it colder, only the greens freeze anyway, okay, I'll watch her ...

And yesterday I put the dough for Wheat Bread on ripe dough (self-leavening). I really want to try.

and I have 6 degrees in the refrigerator, you can make it colder, only the greens freeze anyway, okay, I'll watch her ...

and yesterday I put the dough for Wheat Bread on ripe dough (self-leavening). I really want to try.

I also use ripe baking. I bake everything except with rye flour on it. Rather, not on it, but with its addition.

I also use ripe baking. I bake everything except with rye flour on it. Rather, not on it, but with its addition.

Just about I want it this way, my home people love this bread more than rye. Rye - they don't want large quantities

Please show the photos of what the sourdough looks like after leaving 1 spoon + 100 g of water + 100 g of flour. And it turned out to be very thick. Is that how it should be? this is from thick leaven, right? then mutate? When I just put it, 1 day, it grew strongly, then fell out. The question is to stir it for these 48 hours or not? It's already late, of course, and I want to believe that not everything is lost. Today, after 48 hours, I discovered that on the surface there is a whitish bloom, or grayish, well, some kind of bloom in general :) the smell as described in the recipe is the smell of mash. In general, I pushed it all aside and nevertheless took a tablespoon from below.
And we still stand at room temperature, do not we need to additionally insulate it?

Please show the photos of what the sourdough looks like after leaving 1 spoon + 100 g of water + 100 g of flour. And it turned out to be very thick. Is that how it should be? this is from thick leaven, right? then mutate? When I just put it, 1 day, it grew strongly, then fell out. The question is to stir it for these 48 hours or not? It's already late, of course, and I want to believe that not everything is lost. Today, after 48 hours, I discovered that on the surface there is a whitish bloom, or grayish, well, some kind of bloom in general :) the smell as described in the recipe is the smell of mash. In general, I pushed it all aside and nevertheless took a tablespoon from below.
And we still stand at room temperature, do not we need to additionally insulate it?

My mash smelled only for the first day, and on the second day it smelled like fruit perfume, and then, by the end of the second, on the third day, green apples.
In addition, I do not insulate, and so not in 12, but in 7 hours it is already ready.

[Bosco]

Please show the photos of what the sourdough looks like after leaving 1 spoon + 100 g of water + 100 g of flour. And it turned out to be very thick. Is that how it should be? this is from thick leaven, right? then mutate? When I just put it, 1 day, it grew strongly, then fell out. The question is to stir it for these 48 hours or not? It's already late, of course, and I want to believe that not everything is lost. Today, after 48 hours, I discovered that on the surface there is a whitish bloom, or grayish, well, some kind of bloom in general :) the smell as described in the recipe is the smell of mash. In general, I pushed it all aside and nevertheless took a tablespoon from below.
And we still stand at room temperature, do not we need to additionally insulate it?

Hi, Bosco!
Unfortunately, none of us already have sourdough at this stage (1 spoon after 48 hours + top dressing), everyone who communicates here has already taken it out. If you read this topic carefully, you will see that almost everyone had the same fears and doubts as you. I think that everything is going well for you: the leaven first rose, then the opal, the smell of mash, a grayish bloom - the same was with me and the girls. Now after you take one spoon and feed it, it should rise again, and then fall off, and after another feeding - the same thing. It happens a little differently for everyone: different flours, different temperatures in the kitchen, different composition of bacteria. I think this: continue with the recipe, you do not need to insulate (if you, of course, have a normal room temperature, from 23 to 30 *), you can interfere, but this is not necessary. And let's see what happens. Let's hope it turns out sizable.
Write, we will help

kisuri, thank you very much for your response and support. I measured the temperature in the kitchen 23 degrees. After feeding 1 spoon at 17:00, almost 6 hours have passed, I see small bubbles inside, a thick mass on top, but has already risen by about half a centimeter, maybe a little more :) in anticipation of tomorrow morning, the last feeding and waiting another 12 hours before moment when it will be possible to start up the dough.
Now I really understand that I did not choose the right time, because at 5 pm I will only knead the dough, or, better still, dough first, then the dough ..Is it okay to leave the dough to rise overnight or is it too risky? I'm afraid that if I watch all night, I will oversleep and not take the child to school. When choosing a recipe, the question arose, in some recipes it is indicated to take "ripe rye sourdough" in another "refreshed rye sourdough". If I understand correctly, I need to choose from these two recipes the one where the ripe one? or ripe it is already strong many times refreshed .. in general, tell me, please, so as not to make a mistake in the recipe :)

kisuri, thank you very much for your response and support. I measured the temperature in the kitchen 23 degrees. After feeding 1 spoon at 17:00, almost 6 hours have passed, I see small bubbles inside, a thick mass on top, but has already risen by about half a centimeter, maybe a little more :) in anticipation of tomorrow morning, the last feeding and waiting another 12 hours before moment when it will be possible to start up the dough.
Now I really understand that I did not choose the right time, because at 5 pm I will just knead the dough or is it better to dough first, then the dough .. is it possible to leave the dough to rise all night or is it too risky? I'm afraid that if I watch all night, I will oversleep and not take the child to school. When choosing a recipe, the question arose, in some recipes it is indicated to take "ripe rye sourdough" in another "refreshed rye sourdough". If I understand correctly, I need to choose from these two recipes the one where the ripe one? or ripe it is already strong many times refreshed .. in general, tell me, please, so as not to make a mistake in the recipe :)

I'll try to answer: 1. It is pretty cool in your kitchen, so the leaven rises calmly, does not "tear" up. I think this is good. I didn't get a couple of starter cultures due to the fact that it was hot, they fermented violently at first, and then dead stopped wandering altogether.
2. Tomorrow morning you feed her, not necessarily at exactly 5.00 in the morning, she can perfectly wait an hour or two, nothing will happen to her. After that, forget about her until evening.
3. In the evening the leaven is ready. It's really late to start the oven at 17.00, or rather, at 18-19 (while you figure it out!). Therefore, it is better to choose a recipe for bread with dough, which can be left overnight. There are plenty of recipes. There is another option: separate 1 spoonful from your starter, feed and leave until morning, and put the rest in the refrigerator for storage, as per the recipe. And bake in the morning.
4. You have to sleep at night!
5. "Ripe leaven" and "Refreshing leaven" are one and the same, provided that the leaven is properly refreshed. Then she's ripe. You will have a ripe leaven tomorrow morning. After standing in the refrigerator, it is no longer a sourdough, but a starter. To become a ripe sourdough, it must be refreshed, that is, fed once or twice, and kept at room temperature. And then she again - ripe. So there is no difference.
6. You can make mistakes in recipes, and even need to. He who does not make mistakes does not learn anything.

I bake rye bread on this leaven, this one:https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=65501.0, it is convenient, here you can put a dough for the night. Or bread on beer from Mistletoe, Anya brought the recipe here on this topic, page 24, and we discussed it all later.
I do not recommend baking with this leaven at all without yeast, at least at first, until you get a little hand.
In short, start and everything will work out.