Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

my leaven turned out to be very thick and when it stood on it a crust formed on top, should it be so?

Please tell me If the recipe requires 200 gr. sourdough how to count 1-2 tbsp. l. (starter) + 100 gr. flour and 100 gr. water or 1 tbsp. l. (20-40 gr.) And the rest (180-160 gr.) Divided into water and flour?

Please tell me If the recipe requires 200 gr. sourdough how to count 1-2 tbsp. l. (starter) + 100 gr. flour and 100 gr. water or 1 tbsp. l. (20-40 gr.) And the rest (180-160 gr.) Divided into water and flour?

I do not advise counting these 20 - 40 grams. at all. Try it and see for yourself, there will be no more than 200 g of sourdough. After fermentation, she will lose a little weight due to volatilized gas

VIKI thanks for your answer, I did just that (I didn’t count the starter) but in some recipe I read that it was necessary to count it separately and I was confused and decided to ask the great gurus

Dear Viki! Please tell me why thermophilic yeast die after 18 hours? They're pretty stable. Or they should frighten us with horror stories about them. And another question - is it possible to make rye sourdough with 50% moisture and store it like that? And then soften it before baking with white flour + tsz and bake bread with this. The question arose due to the lack of white organic flour, but I want a thick French sourdough (well, almost French). For bread - soak it up, and for storage separately with rye flour.

Good day! I join your friendly company. I also got myself a "semi-finished product". She put bread on it according to Darnitsky's recipe from Fugaska and mentally prepared to wait three hours for it to partake. I didn't wait - it almost doubled in less than two hours. Nerves could not stand it - I had to turn on the oven. I'm sitting waiting for the result ...

Nerves could not stand it - I had to turn on the oven. I'm sitting waiting for the result ...

So we are also waiting for the result
How are you there? Please write to us. We have nerves too ...

Good day. I got myself this starter culture and everything was fine and the bread turned out to be excellent (I baked "Orlovsky" with sourdough, Swabian according to Omela recipes and also with seeds from Axioma), but my semi-finished product began to run out and naturally I fed it and left it for 12 hours at room temperature ... When the time came, the leaven was ripe, I put it in a glass jar with a lid and put it in the refrigerator. And take it harmful and begin to savor with wine brew. I don't know what to do with it, try to bake bread or start a new one. Please tell me where I made a mistake during storage. In the first case, she kept the starter culture in a glass glass covered with gauze on the bottom shelf of the refrigerator and she felt good there (she only got covered with a crust, which prompted her to move to the jar). After subcortex - 100g of sourdough in a 280g jar under a closed lid (with daily airing) also on the bottom shelf of the refrigerator

Vika! save! at 11.30 I put the leaven, and it is almost coming out of the jar, so bubbly, what should I do with it? what

So here are some holes, where is the leaven

Natalia - at what stage is the leaven?

so I say the same, kneaded at 11.30, and after 3 hours she became like that, but really I put it on the locker, and there was a steam room, I took off the jar and the growth stopped, so in the morning I fed it for the first time, so she ALREADY! has grown in two, what to do next, continue to feed as prescribed?

OUCH, RUNAAAAAAAA from the bank !!!!!! had to shift to a large one .... what to do? growing like crazy ...

Maybe there was a lot of yeast: o Do everything according to the recipe

so according to the prescription and did what to throw out this one and make a new one? and the question about these thiols torments me ...

Do not throw it away, put it in a cooler place, but not in the chill-out, it will ferment and calm down and continue according to the scheme further

I'll put it on the floor ... otherwise I'll get tired of catching ...

The most optimal temperature for the first 2 days is 20-25 *

Well, yesterday it was under 40. less today, but still an hour has passed, she is already reaching the middle of the can, put it on the floor, oh, I'll put it in the corridor, there is exactly +20.

[VIKI]

VIKI, thanks for the sourdough recipe!
The sourdough turned out, Darnitsky on the sourdough also of your recipe, it turned out! Even a husband who doesn't like rye bread eats.

[Bogy]

The leaven turned out, Darnitsky turned out!
Even a husband who doesn't like rye bread eats.

Bogy, this is an achievement!
And mine, too, loves only white and fluffy, and Darnitsky eats. So ... we will feed our husbands - that's for sure

and I threw away the leaven .... The first two feedings everything was fine, it grew, the structure was like that of bread, it smelled like bread, and the next and reanimation, nothing happened, just a little blurred and everything, sticky, somehow incomprehensible to the touch ... threw it out ... . races built ...

Hello! I've been reading about leaven for a long time and finally decided to put it on.
I put it as in the recipe, almost 24 hours passed, and the leaven was almost unchanged: bubbled and almost did not increase in volume::. Is this normal, or do you urgently need to do something?

And today I put this leaven. I also walked in circles in topics about leaven, did not know where to start. But, I realized one thing. That many members of the forum, having spent some time with sourdough, came to the conclusion that the most optimal options are semi-finished rye and self-leavened bread on ripe dough. So I decided to start with them right away. I checked the lunar calendar. New Moon started yesterday. It's time to begin the sacrament of growing leaven. And today I set the rye semi-finished product to be made. I really hope that everything will be fine.
I have a small question. Is it done in the light, in the shade, or is it better to put it in a cupboard?

[Mona]

Hi, Mona!
Can I answer for now?
Not that I was too busy with sourdough, not at all. I lived with Sarychevskaya sourdough from the same Luda - Mariana_aga for a whole year and behaved very well. And then we left for a whole month, and I decided to use it all, and then start a new one. And after my arrival, I started this semi-finished sourdough, and it has been working perfectly since June. And there is less trouble with her, that's for sure! I don't think I need any other leaven yet. So, just today I took it out, there is 50g left there. I fed her, and this is how she grew beautifully in 5 hours:

She will stand for another couple of hours, and I will take part of her for dough for bread, and the rest - in the refrigerator, to sleep.
True, I noticed that a month is too much for this starter culture to stand in the refrigerator without feeding, after 3 weeks it clearly begins to lose its strength, rises more slowly. so I feed her not 100 flour + 100 water, but 85 + 85. Then it is enough for about 3 weeks, and then all over again, as written.
When I take it out of the h-ka, I keep it in the corner of the kitchen, just on the table, not in the sun, but not in the closet either. I tighten it with a film, make a couple of holes in it - and that's it! And in the refrigerator, it is stored in a jar with a lid.
Good luck to you, and everything will be fine!
Hi, yusha111! Just now I saw your "cry for help". Well, did you succeed?

[kisuri]

True, I noticed that a month is too much for this starter culture to stand in the refrigerator without feeding, after 3 weeks it clearly begins to lose its strength, rises more slowly. so I feed her not 100 flour + 100 water, but 85 + 85. Then it is enough for about 3 weeks, and then all over again, as written.

Hello, kisuri... Thank you very much for telling me. Any support is very important to me now. And then this is still my first leaven and I still feel not very confident, like in a minefield, I don’t know what awaits me, although I read this whole thread and a few more branches about leaven. But I'm not afraid either, just jittery.
This is what I wanted to ask.You write for 3 weeks it is enough. And this is at what frequency of use per week - once, twice or more? Or if you often bake, then leave more of it in the refrigerator.
And what is your wheat bread? Do you feed this wheat and bake or do you have something else like French, raisin or eternal wheat?
I bake Borodino three times a week, sometimes 2 bread a day. Is it possible then to add enough flour and water to a spoonful of starting from the refrigerator so that these 2 breads are enough? And one oven is in the HP, and the second is in the oven? Usually it happens to me on Sunday. I bake one home, and one husband takes to work. But white is also simple and with raisins I bake three or four times. I want to try white on ripe dough.

[kisuri]

Hello, kisuri... Thank you very much for telling me. Any support is very important to me now. And then this is still my first leaven and I still feel not very confident, like in a minefield, I don’t know what awaits me, although I read this whole thread and a few more branches about leaven. But I'm not afraid either, just jittery.
This is what I wanted to ask. You write for 3 weeks it is enough. And this is at what frequency of use per week - once, twice or more? Or if you often bake, then leave more of it in the refrigerator.
And what is your wheat bread? Do you feed this wheat and bake or do you have something else like French, raisin or eternal wheat?
I bake Borodino three times a week, sometimes 2 bread a day. Is it possible then to add enough flour and water to a spoonful of starting from the refrigerator so that these 2 breads are enough? And one oven is in the HP, and the second is in the oven? Usually it happens to me on Sunday. I bake one home, and one husband takes to work. But white is also simple and with raisins I bake three or four times. I want to try white on ripe dough.

Hi, Mona! I am Ira, and you can call me
I will try to answer as many questions as I know myself, of course.
First and foremost: jitters are normal, like before going on stage. I started working with sourdoughs a few years ago, at first my hands were shaking, I jumped up at night, I checked it grows - it doesn't grow ... it worked - it didn't work ... and I threw it away too, it happened. I lived with two sourdoughs, which were given to me in bakeries (by the way, a real baker would never refuse to give sourdough, moreover, to give it, not to sell it!), And made several myself. Then I realized that there was no need to spray. You need to choose one thing and bring it to mind. Then I just chose one recipe for rye sourdough (Sarycheva), made the sourdough from the very beginning and worked with it for a year, until the bread began to turn out stably, and I would have lived with it if we hadn't left. And then I decided to try this one. And I didn’t regret it.
I bake sourdough, mostly rye bread, 1-2 times a week. This Sometimes I make gray bread in HP, it is also good to add a spoon or two to add rye sourdough for taste and smell. And on weekends, I always make all sorts of buns, flatbreads or other wheat bread, but it is mainly on yeast, on various doughs. I have not made wheat starters. Here, in this thread, they already wrote that you can make wheat leaven from this leaven, but I have not tried it. Wheat bread is excellent even with yeast or ripe dough, and rye bread never. It definitely needs a leaven.
For my rye, 70-100 g of ripe sourdough is needed. I take about 20-30 g of this semi-finished starter culture from the refrigerator, 35 g of warm water, mix well, beat it. There 35 g of rye flour, mix and leave for 6-10 hours, that is, for a day when I leave for work or overnight. Here is the ripe leaven. I make a dough out of it, leave it for several. hours, and then I bake bread.
For example, I will bake bread tomorrow. In the morning today I took out my sourdough from the farm, there are only 50 g of it left. It means that we have to feed it all. I add 85 water (warm) to it, beat it, and 85 hw. flour. Mixed well. Left to wander all day. I took from there 70 g of ripe sourdough for bread dough.
So we had 50 + 85 + 85 = 220g.
220-70 = 150g. I send the leavens to the refrigerator.I’ll take a spoon from her, and the rest will sleep.
I need 20-60 g of this sourdough per week, depending on how much I will bake bread (for my daughter, for my son), so it turns out that on average this amount is enough for me for 3 weeks. And when 40-50 g remains, I will again feed everything that remains, take it for bread, and the rest - in the refrigerator.
Still clear? If it's not entirely clear now, it will become clear when it comes down to it.
How do you do it, by the way?
Good luck!

I took from there 70 g of ripe sourdough for dough for bread.
So we had 50 + 85 + 85 = 220g.
220-70 = 150g. I send the leavens to the refrigerator. I’ll take a spoon from her, and the rest will sleep.
I need 20-60 g of this sourdough per week, depending on how much I will bake bread (for my daughter, for my son), so it turns out that on average this amount is enough for me for 3 weeks. And when 40-50 g remains, I will again feed everything that remains, take it for bread, and the rest - in the refrigerator.
Still clear? If it's not entirely clear now, it will become clear when it comes down to it.
How do you do it, by the way?
Good luck!

Yes, of course to YOU! And as I understand it, these 70 g of ripe sourdough for bread dough are like technology + flour and water, how much is needed for bread and ferments for how many hours or until it doubles?
And my leaven is still thick, it seems like it has grown by about 0.5-1 cm in a liter jar. I just put it 7 hours ago.

Good morning, Tanya!
I bake my own rye according to the Russian recipe with sourdough (Gost) from Chuchelka (thanks to her!) With my slight changes, well, everyone is already adapting to their conditions. The basic recipe is here:
Right now I'm going to bake bread. If you have any prescription questions - ask.
And with the leaven - let's see what happens next. I remember that it rushed up pretty quickly, but it's hot here. Patience, only patience. Maybe someone from the members of the forum will share their experience.

Good morning, Tanya!
I bake my own rye according to the Russian recipe with sourdough (Gost) from Chuchelka (thanks to her!) With my slight changes, well, everyone is already adapting to their conditions. The basic recipe is here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=65501.0... I love him very much, I bake both molds and hearths, I wrote in Chuchelka's topic, and put up pictures.

Hi Ira! Well, my leaven wanders slowly in the coolest room. There is 24-25 degrees. She grew up a little bit, but all went up in bubbles.
This is what I think. I read the entire Temka from beginning to end. There, on the first page in the description, 200 grams of a semi-finished product is made and it is stored for up to a month in the refrigerator at 3 degrees. And as needed, we just take a spoon to make the dough, and the rest is on. That is, the rest does not feed and nothing is done with it. But on the last pages in the posts of Viki I read that she does not hold much now, but only 1-2 spoons. Then he takes a spoon + water, flour in the amount as needed for the dough and + 40 grams to be stored in the refrigerator. That is, it turns out that the sourdough in the refrigerator is not a month without movement, but is fed every time the bread is made. That is, in fact, this is an eternal one. And I liked it so much. So I will do it. But then, I think that you can then store in the refrigerator not at 3 degrees (which is necessary so that acetic acid does not accumulate, or maybe at 11-12, so that the ICD is preserved, as is done with the eternal? I, by the way, now made homemade feta cheese, so a bottle of warm serum is open in the room. These ICBs will fall from it into the sourdough as if through the air. In general, I hope that I will grow something worthwhile, a hybrid of an eternal with a semi-finished product. for example) Maybe I'll add a few grains in a day with water. ”At the moment, 21 hours have passed since the beginning.
And about your recipe, it won't work for me, there is too much rye flour. And I put it in half with wheat. We like it this way more, and it's easier for the bread maker to interfere. I will not undertake this manually. Here is a speckle, look here there is my post with a photo.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...=com_smf&topic=173600.540
There, for the last couple of weeks, everyone has been baking and baking it. This is Rina "50 * 50" bread with live yeast.
Here are its coordinates
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=109387.0
I want to try it partially on sourdough, and then I can bake it completely. This is my family's favorite bread.

Hi Ira! Well, my leaven wanders slowly in the coolest room. There is 24-25 degrees. It has grown a little bit, but it all started to bubble up.
This is what I think. I read the entire Temka from beginning to end. There, on the first page in the description, 200 grams of a semi-finished product is made and it is stored for up to a month in the refrigerator at 3 degrees. And as needed, we just take a spoon to make the dough, and the rest is on. That is, the rest does not feed and nothing is done with it. But on the last pages in the posts of Viki I read that she now does not hold much, but only 1-2 spoons. Then he takes a spoon + water, flour in an amount as needed for the dough and + 40 grams to be stored in the refrigerator. That is, it turns out that the sourdough in the refrigerator is not a month without movement, but is fed every time the bread is made. That is, in fact, this is an eternal one.

Hi, Tanyusha!
I did not find in this thread where Vicki writes this. On the contrary, on the penultimate page, she writes about the same 200 g of semi-finished leaven. I would be glad. if you show me where she writes it.
I am quite satisfied with the fact that she wrote about this starter from the very beginning, it works well for me, and is perfectly stored in the refrigerator - I have it up to 3 weeks. I have a constant temperature of 4-6 * C in my refrigerator. I don't know how to create a constant temperature of 11-12 degrees at home, especially in summer.
This rye bread really cannot be made in KhP, at least from our rye flour, we only have wallpaper. HP does not knead such dough. I couldn't make real rye until I bought a powerful mixer with a hook. So you're right, of course. Although, I see, people made it in HP, but it may be from peeled rye. It is practically not sold with us.
Your bread is very beautiful. I would be glad to help you in what I could. But everyone has their own troubles and their own experience.
Good luck with the leaven! Write down how the case is progressing. Maybe someone else will respond, ayy!
Ira

Hi, Tanyusha!
I did not find in this thread where Vicki writes this. On the contrary, on the penultimate page, she writes about the same 200 g of semi-finished leaven. I would be glad. if you show me where she writes it.
I am quite satisfied with the fact that she wrote about this starter from the very beginning, it works well for me, and is perfectly stored in the refrigerator - I have it up to 3 weeks. I have a constant temperature of 4-6 * C in my refrigerator. I don't know how to create a constant temperature of 11-12 degrees at home, especially in summer.
This rye bread really cannot be made in KhP, at least from our rye flour, we only have wallpaper. HP does not knead such dough. I couldn't make real rye until I bought a powerful mixer with a hook. So you're right, of course. Although, I see, people made it in HP, but it may be from peeled rye. It is practically not sold with us.
Your bread is very beautiful. I would be glad to help you in what I could. But everyone has their own troubles and their own experience.
Good luck with the leaven! Write down how the case is progressing. Maybe someone else will respond, ayy!
Ira

Yes, we have peeled rye everywhere, and we bake on it. And about how Vicki is baking now, here she writes, look
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...n=com_smf&topic=42973.360 Post number 376

Yes, we have peeled rye everywhere, and we bake on it. And about how Vicki is baking now, here she writes, look
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...n=com_smf&topic=42973.360 Post number 376

Ah, how interesting! I haven't seen that, thanks! Well, that means she was on the right track, reducing the amount of leaven in the refrigerator! My 150g. - these are 3-4 tablespoons, so almost ... By the way, I do not like to store so little sourdough in the kh-ke, because after a week it is inside a beautiful beige color, and on top there is such a gray film, I mix it, and she looks fresh. And one spoon, then the whole will be one continuous film. And pay attention that Vicki refreshes her TWO times after the refrigerator, it's no coincidence. And after one, she rises very well - see the photo.I'll leave it as it is, especially since the difference is small.
The main thing now is to grow her. And you yourself can adapt to it.
It's a shame. that you are far away, would share with you.

And pay attention that Vicki refreshes her TWO times after the refrigerator, it's no coincidence. And after one, it rises very well for me - see the photo. I'll leave it as it is, especially since the difference is small.
The main thing now is to grow her. And you yourself can adapt to it.
It's a shame. that you are far away, would share with you.

Look at what Vicki writes about this fractional feeding, it seems like a more active starter culture becomes
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...n=com_smf&topic=42973.260
Post 271

Thanks, I'll try it. I've always done this with regular leaven.

Here, look, my leaven in a liter jar. It's 25 hours to her.

And covered with such a lid

Well risen! Look at the holes !! Everything is as it should

Well risen! Look at the holes !! Everything is as it should

That yes, in a day, feed 1 spoon. Better in a liter can, as you think, or just a bigger container, otherwise it will explode.

That yes, in a day, feed 1 spoon. Better in a liter can, as you think, or just a bigger container, otherwise it will explode.

I don't think we need to take more containers. 100 +100 will not explode harder. And then another 100+ 100 ... I don't know. I think, feed 1 spoonful in the same jar, but the next feeding can be done in a larger container ... just in case.

Well, yesterday after 50 o'clock (I added 2 hours so that I didn't get up to feed at 6 am) I fed. I must say that it is practically the same type and consistency as in the photo of the beginning of the second day. Now at 9:30 I fed her as usual 100 * 100 and left until 21:30. Stirred like tough dough. So I was afraid that I would catch, but it seems that I like the leaven and it is not going to run anywhere. Stands in the bedroom in the twilight at 24 degrees.
The only thing that suggests that everything is in order is the smell. The first day it smelled like a mash, such an alcoholic smell, but already on the second day it disappeared altogether, it smelled at first of delicious fruit perfume, and on the second, and now - a green apple, very nice. But he doesn't want to liquefy. Let's see what will happen in 12 hours, but if the picture practically does not change, what to do next? According to the rules, it is necessary - in bread half, and half in the cold. But will she lift the bread? And can leave until morning. In general, in the late afternoon, I'll write about the situation.
The question is. This half, which we will separate to make the dough. How to put it right into the dough, knead it, distance it to double it and bake it, or first add flour-water 100 * 100 again and wait until it doubles, and then add everything else, again distance it until it doubles and bake?

Hi, Tanya!
Judging by your description, you are all right. In the photo of the second day, your leaven looked good (as far as I can see), rose, beautiful holes. The smell is good. Your temperature is 24 *, it's even a little cool. It grew rapidly with me, but with us - 30 * day and night. It seems to me that 24 * is better for growing sourdough, as I read. (Already a couple of starter cultures have died due to too vigorous fermentation.)
Now you have a ready-made sourdough-semi-finished product in the evening. She is active, and she can be immediately added to bread. And half - in the refrigerator for storage. Until morning I would not leave her, she will lose strength. Or feed it again, and then leave it overnight and bake it in the morning.
Whether she picks up bread or not - it will only be possible to see in action. But we must believe that it will raise, why not !?
The only thing I would recommend is to add a little yeast to the dough along with the sourdough, just to be sure. Do not use it neat. And, as we already wrote, do not leave it standing for a month. Then she gains strength over time.

Hi Ira, I'm glad you showed up, otherwise I'm wondering what to do next. Look, it took a picture now, my leaven is in a 2-liter jar. Until the end of the last, third day - 5 hours.

I am also glad that I can answer (and this is not always ...)
You make a great sourdough! ... It can be seen that it has grown to almost half of a two-liter can, and has already begun to fall off. The fire is going according to plan. I think that she has already reached the maximum of her activity, and you can not wait 5 hours. When were you going to bake bread?

I am also glad that I can answer (and this is not always ...)
You make a great sourdough! ... It can be seen that it has grown to almost half of a two-liter can, and has already begun to fall off. The fire is going according to plan. I think that she has already reached the maximum of her activity, and you can not wait 5 hours. When were you going to bake bread?

Do you think she was higher than now and is already falling? I was just not at home for a while. And I thought that I just smeared the can a little higher when I mixed water and flour for the last time.
I wanted the oven today. At 20:30 the third day would end and start. Do you think you can try baking now? This is even better for me, otherwise the guard at night.

Do you think she was higher than now and is already falling? I was just not at home for a while. And I thought that I just smeared the can a little higher when I mixed water and flour for the last time.
I wanted the oven today. At 20:30 the third day would end and start. Do you think you can try baking now? This is even better for me, otherwise the guard at night.

So even smeared? When you mixed flour and water, the level was one and a half times lower, then it grew and began to fall, so it seems to me. I think you can not wait all 5 hours. Another hour or two, and you can bake. (Personally, I would have started already. Sourdough is at its peak when it rises to a maximum and begins to fall off. But this is my opinion)
Did you try the stove at night? Well, you are a hero!

So even smeared? When you mixed flour and water, the level was one and a half times lower, then it grew and began to fall, so it seems to me. I think you can not wait all 5 hours. Another hour or two, and you can bake. (Personally, I would have started already. Sourdough is at its peak when it rises to a maximum and begins to fall off. But this is my opinion)
Did you try the stove at night? Well, you are a hero!

Okay, I'll go and put my wheat and rye. Usually I have 8 g of live yeast in it. I'll put in half. I generally do it with dough. I knead part of the water, all wheat and yeast in the HP. It will stand a little, then I add rye flour and everything else (here I am thinking of adding my sourdough), turn on the Rye mode and it is all mixed, fermented and baked. Of course, I will look at the proofer. You may need to start baking earlier if the dough has already doubled. Okay, I'm very glad that you showed up and prompted me to run to the kitchen.

Good luck
Write. if anything .

[Viki]

Hurray, I'm glad to announce that the bread turned out, and it turned out to be even more convex than I just baked with yeast. My roof, too, is usually not sunken, usually convex, but not much, and this handsome man is so beautiful from above, feast for the eyes. I baked in HP as I wrote in the previous post. The taste is very tasty, but, in truth, it was cool before according to this recipe. Only for some reason it turned out more fried from all sides, although the size of the bread was the same.
Yes, I usually put 8 g of pressed yeast. This time I put 4 g. And such a great result. Hopefully I will gradually reduce the addition of yeast to zero. Sorry, no photo. In the evening it's a bit dark in the kitchen for a photo, and in the morning my bark beetles have devoured almost all the beauty.

Thank you so much Viki for such a wonderful thing as Rye semi-finished product.
And a special thank you Ira kisuri for not leaving me alone and helping and supporting me in every possible way!

[Mona1]

Mona1, BRAVO !!!!
kisuri,