Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

kisuri, thank you very much for the recommendations.
I am reporting on the leaven: at 6:30 I fed it, 4 hours have passed. increased by 2 times, maybe even a little more. I really want to bake one of the AXIOMA breads, or wheat-rye https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=91879.0, or fragrant https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=82861.0... Now the main question is, will the leaven last until 18:30? Probably after lunch I'll put the dough on. Oh, today it seems to me that the kefir shop has revived a little, I didn't even hope, though its rise bothers me, after the last feeding, it did not rise by half a centimeter before, maybe it’s possible to try some kind of bread from it, will it raise? probably, when baking kefir yeast, add yeast .. how exciting it is .. when the leaven LIVE !!! The main thing is that the bread would turn out.

[Bosco]

Hi, Bosco!
Your leaven is doing well. According to the recipe, it must stand for 12 hours, until 18.30. She will not stop, it should be done according to technology. BUT! At this stage, it is already possible not to wait 12 hours to bake bread. In general, any leaven is most active when it rises to its maximum and stops or begins to fall off. So, judging by your description, it will be ready after lunch. Take away how much you need for bread, and you can bake. I would still hold the rest until 18 hours, as the recipe says, and then - in the refrigerator for storage.
You see, there is nothing to be afraid of!
The bread recipe is a personal choice.
And I can't say anything about kefir sourdough, I don't know.
Good luck and don't be afraid of mistakes !!!

[Bosco]

Hi, Bosco!
Your leaven is doing well. According to the recipe, it must stand for 12 hours, until 18.30. She will not stop, it should be done according to technology. BUT! At this stage, it is already possible not to wait 12 hours to bake bread. In general, any leaven is most active when it rises to its maximum and stops or begins to fall off. So, judging by your description, it will be ready after lunch. Take away how much you need for bread, and you can bake. I would still hold the rest until 18 hours, as the recipe says, and then - in the refrigerator for storage.
You see, there is nothing to be afraid of!
The bread recipe is a personal choice.
And I can't say anything about kefir sourdough, I don't know.
Good luck and don't be afraid of mistakes !!!

I begin to knead the dough. But it turned out that almost all the leaven left me! In the recipe 320 gr, 2 tablespoons left! And how to be now? just send these 2 spoons to the refrigerator for storage? And please tell me how to determine what is the time to send to the oven, read that the dough is checked with a finger, please explain, should a trace remain, or vice versa, should the dough immediately return to its original position? and then into the oven? And when it is better to make cuts, before detuning or in front of the oven, it happened to me before that during the cuts the dough settled

I begin to knead the dough. But it turned out that almost all the leaven left me! In the recipe 320 gr, 2 tablespoons left! And how to be now? just send these 2 spoons to the refrigerator for storage? And please tell me how to determine what is the time to send to the oven, read that the dough is checked with a finger, please explain, should a trace remain, or vice versa, should the dough immediately return to its original position? and then into the oven? And when it is better to make cuts, before detuning or in front of the oven, it happened to me before that during the cuts the dough settled

Take your two tablespoons of starter culture, 100 ml of water and 100 g of flour. Dilute your two spoons with this water (lukewarm), lightly beat this slurry with a fork, there these 100 g.flour, stir, cover with foil or a lid with holes and leave to ferment for 12 hours on the table. After 12 (or less, 7-10) hours, put it in the refrigerator for storage. Take out a spoon each time you bake bread. When there are 1 or 2 spoons left, repeat all over again: take out, feed, let stand for 10-12 hours, take away as much for bread, the rest - in the refrigerator. If you need more leaven, add more flour and water, butterscotch - so that there is an equal amount. You can (and even better) feed in two doses, Vicki has it here, described on the topic.
Regarding proofing and baking bread, you better go to the topics where they write about it. It is important that the bread does not ferment. The incisions are always made after the final proofing before baking. When the bread is fermented, pressing with your finger leaves a mark that does NOT disappear. But these are all very general things, this comes with experience, and read the relevant topics and master classes on the forum, there are a lot of them and they are excellent.

[Bosco]

Bosco!
Well how are you? How is your leaven?

[Bosco]

Bosco!
Well how are you? How is your leaven?

Hello! Forgive me for disappearing without reporting, at work I got lost. The leaven is ripe. Baked the most wonderful bread
Fragrant rye sourdough bread (oven) from AXIOMA, here is the recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=82861.0
True, it was a little blurred on the proofer, but it still turned out to be VERY tasty. I didn't add yeast!
Thank you very much ALL for your support and advice.

Viki low bow for the leaven! This is my first bread exclusively on sourdough, which turned out and turned out to be VERY tasty. All the others I either did not survive, or were too weak to raise bread. We were treating the teacher of the 1st grade, she was just coming on a visit. She loved the bread. I ate it just like that! refusing to put anything on it. Because delicious bread is good in itself!
Now I will learn how to upload and add photos, if I learn and report back with photos.

[Bosco]

Bosco! Fine! Well done!
Good luck and delicious bread!
Over time, if done correctly, your culture will grow stronger.
And we will wait for photos

Here he is Fragrant litter for the quality of the photo, I had to shoot on the phone.

And a slice:

Merci again !!!

I managed to forget to open it 2 times a day for airing. I forgot for 2 days. And I watch the bubbles are gone
I only have 2 tablespoons left. I will soon be reading, calculating how to increase the volume of the leaven and refresh it

I managed to forget to open it 2 times a day for airing. I forgot for 2 days. And I watch the bubbles are gone
I only have 2 tablespoons left. I will soon be reading, calculating how to increase the volume of the leaven and refresh it

Hello again!
I want to answer you: firstly, it is absolutely unnecessary to open and check it. It can easily stand for a week without opening, and will work fine. I keep it in a porcelain dish with a lid, and there is a tiny little hole in the lid. And I don't open it for days, and it works great. And the bubbles in the refrigerator always disappear, even if you open it, or not.
And why calculate how to increase the amount of leaven? Just, as soon as 1 spoon remains, feed it with 100 flour + 100 water, leave it for 7 - 12 hours and now you have 220-230 grams of live sourdough. Take as much as you need for bread, and the rest in the refrigerator. How much do you need for one bread?

Simply, if you need a lot of sourdough for one bread, you can feed it not 100 and 100, but 150 and 150, for example.

My starter culture, prepared almost a month ago, has run out. One spoon remains. Today, in the same half-liter jar where this spoon was, I added 100 g of water and the same amount of flour, stirred. It has been standing for 8 hours already. It has doubled and there is only a centimeter and a half to the lid. If it grows to the lid, is it possible to stir it so that it settles a little. And is it necessary to wait 12 hours? I have 26 degrees in the room. Maybe the leaven is ready already for 10, for example. And before you put it in the refrigerator, do you need to stir it so that excess carbon dioxide comes out or put it as it is, with bubbles.
I remember mixing it a month ago. Otherwise, it did not work, since half was taken into the dough, and the rest - into the refrigerator. Now I will not take anything away. So should you mix?

I don't mix, I put it in the hall and that's it

I don't mix, I put it in the hall and that's it

So I will, especially since tomorrow morning I will still select 40 g so that I can start the leaven for baking. Then it will mix. True, it almost reached the lid. Will not run away overnight, I hope I have 3 degrees in the fridge.

Hi, Tanyusha!
Of course, you can stir, why would the leaven come out of the can ?! While stirring, we simply release excess gases that have already been released and only inhibit further fermentation. I always stir before refrigerating. But if you DO NOT mix, nothing special will happen either.
It is not necessary to wait 12 hours. If the leaven has grown 2-2.5 times (in 6-7 hours), then it has fermented enough, and you can put it in a cold-curing oven.
I’m already doing what is convenient for me and try not to let it oxyderate, especially if the kitchen is warm. And it works really well.

Hi, Tanyusha!
Of course, you can stir, why would the leaven come out of the can ?! While stirring, we simply release excess gases that have already been released and only inhibit further fermentation. I always stir before refrigerating. But if you DO NOT mix, nothing special will happen either.
It is not necessary to wait 12 hours. If the leaven has grown 2-2.5 times (in 6-7 hours), then it has fermented enough, and you can put it in a cold-curing oven.
I’m already doing what is convenient for me and try not to let it oxyderate, especially if the kitchen is warm. And it works really well.

Thank you, Irisha, I have already put it in the refrigerator. 11 hours passed. just the last 2 hours it stopped and practically stopped growing. Increased from the beginning by 2.5 times. Probably, once she stopped, that's enough for her. Let it stand in the cold until morning, and tomorrow I'll take a little for bread.

Yes, yes, it is best to put it at the peak of activity, when it rose to the maximum and stopped, or began to fall off. But, if you put all of it in the h-k, then tomorrow, when you take it away for bread, you need to feed it again and wait a few hours before putting the dough or dough, you know, right?

Yes, yes, it is best to put it at the peak of activity, when it rose to the maximum and stopped, or began to fall off. But, if you put all of it in the h-k, then tomorrow, when you take it away for bread, you need to feed it again and wait a few hours before putting the dough or dough, you know, right?

You mean to feed those 40 grams that I will take away? I know it. And the rest is no longer necessary, right? Simply - I took the jar out of the refrigerator, took 40 g, and again this jar was immediately put into the refrigerator.

You mean to feed those 40 grams that I will take away? I know it. And the rest is no longer necessary, right? Simply - I took the jar out of the refrigerator, took 40 g, and again this jar was immediately put into the refrigerator.

Exactly!

Hello again!
I want to answer you: firstly, it is absolutely unnecessary to open and check it. It can easily stand for a week without opening, and will work fine. I keep it in a porcelain dish with a lid, and in the lid there is a tiny little hole. And I don't open it for several days, and it works great. And the bubbles in the refrigerator always disappear, even if you open it, or not.
And why calculate how to increase the amount of leaven? Just, as soon as 1 spoon remains, feed it with 100 flour + 100 water, leave it for 7 - 12 hours and now you have 220-230 grams of live sourdough. Take as much as you need for bread, and the rest in the refrigerator. How much do you need for one bread?

the recipe requires 320 g of sourdough. there are 2 tables left in the bank. spoons of leaven. I need to calculate what would be enough for bread and what would be the starter for a couple of times at least.But this flavored bread is very big. Therefore, it was enough for me for more than a week, so I will probably bake it once a week. What is nice, the bread does not grow moldy. Yeast would not last so much for me.

Hello everyone!
I only read up to page 15 in a row.
Started the leaven on Tuesday 9th evening. Comply with all the points. It so happened that the third "complementary foods" I had almost 14 hours later, today at 10 am. Three hours later, she was almost to the top (1 liter mayonnaise bucket). I mixed it, put it on again. After 2-3 hours, again to the top, I covered it with a cloth under an elastic band, so the cloth slightly stained. I mixed it again, put it on the windowsill, it seems to be cooler there. Half an hour ago - a flat dome on the finger from the edge. I put it in the refrigerator and to you for now. Have I screwed up something? Is it too late to bake bread today? Can someone from the pros answer?

I did read on this page a little higher than my question, sorry for the rush in the previous one. I understood something.
How to calculate the amount of leaven for the required amount of flour? For example, do I need bread made from 400g flour?

I did read on this page a little higher than my question, sorry for the rush in the previous one. I understood something.
How to calculate the amount of leaven for the required amount of flour? For example, do I need bread made from 400g flour?

if, taking into account the leaven, you want 400 g of flour in the recipe in total, then I suggest the following example:
sourdough 200 g (100 water + 100 flour)
flour 300 g
the rest is prescription
do not forget to subtract 100 g / ml of water included in the starter from the liquid according to the recipe

I did read on this page a little higher than my question, sorry for the rush in the previous one. I understood something.
How to calculate the amount of leaven for the required amount of flour? For example, do I need bread made from 400g flour?

It seems to me that this is all selected experimentally by experience. Here I, for example, bake all the time bread from 400 g of flour, of which 200 g - wheat and 200 g rye. Before using the starter, I put 8 g of compressed yeast.
When I made a semi-finished rye product, I began to take 40 g of a starter from the refrigerator + 100 g of water + 100 g of rye flour, and still added 4 g of presses. yeast into the dough. And all the time tore the roof. Very tasty bread, but there are a few gnarled twists on the roof. I really love to nibble on these slobs. By the amount of flour-liquid, nothing changed, I calculated everything, taking into account the amount of flour-water in the sourdough. Rushing up hefty strongly. Now today I put this bread again. I left everything the same, but I took the starter not 40, but 30 g and presses. reduced yeast to 3 g. As a result - an ideal roof. BUT: this is with my sourdough and with my pressed yeast, flour, whey, etc. And you have it all of your own, maybe the flour is drier or the yeast is more active. , then you need to bother several times to get used to it. Again, you can not add yeast at all, but then you probably need more starter and the proofing will take longer. This amount of ingredients was enough for me to bake decent bread in HP on the Rye mode, though I did not bake in a bucket of HP, but in the L7 form. Here, I went to take a picture:

Again, the starter culture may be young or already very active. You also need to consider.
So, there is no unambiguous calculation scheme for all recipes, it is necessary to select or correct if you use a recipe with the already indicated amount of leaven.

[here]

Hurrah! I consider my first experience successful. Report here... Post 24.
Thanks a lot, everyone!
Oh, and I was also given a second BULK. So great! Just like a medal of merit.

Tell me, how harmful are periodic temperature rises in the refrigerator for the leaven? Although I set it to a minimum, it still jumps. And I watch the leaven "come to life". Can you beat her?

Tell me, how harmful are periodic temperature rises in the refrigerator for the leaven? Although I set it to a minimum, it still jumps. And I watch the leaven "come to life". Can you beat her?

I don’t know about the climbs, it’s cold all the time, about 3 degrees. But you can bend over, I think.Every time I take part of the starter from the jar, I mix the rest.

I even put a thermometer in the cold room. And yesterday I looked, the leaven was bubbling. It turns out it was +5, then it decreased.

[marinastom]

Hi, marinastom.
Up to 6-7 * C, the leaven lives well in the refrigerator, and you don't have to worry at all. It will not peroxide even up to 10 *, but on the contrary, it is believed that ideal storage conditions for the starter culture are from 6 to 12 degrees C, since it retains its original molecular composition. It's just difficult to create and maintain such a temperature for a long time in ordinary home conditions. Therefore, the sourdough is stored in a regular refrigerator, where the temperature is from 3-4 to 6-7 degrees. In my old refrigerator I had 10 * in the door, and the leaven lived fine. (True, other products spoiled)

And if she gets away with me? She's so nimble! Or will it go with her?

At 5 * - what? Stir it, release excess gas, take a little more dishes just in case, if it seems to you that it will come out. We'll see in a few days. At 5 *, not a single living creature will run. And leaven is a living being. She will gradually calm down and go into hibernation. A little patience ...

I am grateful again
I never baked pies before, as there are always a LOT of yeast in recipes. Found sourdough pies.
I used this sourdough to cook such pies, cheesecakes, buns. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=163076.0
There it was recommended to simply overfeed the rye sourdough into wheat, which I did. And the miracle leaven worked just fine! I didn't even expect. It rose so well and the dough rose just fine! In general, I am indescribably delighted! The pies turned out to be just wonderful.
There is a question. She made her sourdoughs more than is necessary according to the recipe, in the hope that it will be possible to store and use it like a semi-finished rye product. Is it possible? or will it peroxide? While the leftovers were put in the refrigerator. Tell me, does someone have an overfed wheat sourdough from a semi-finished rye product living and awake?

Vika, (or maybe someone else) such a question.
🔗
I made the leaven for the first time about two weeks ago. It so happened that I used it only three times after that. Stands in the refrigerator (like +3) in a mayonnaise bucket, covered with a cloth, and a lid is on top. The cloth under the lid looks like it is damp, and on the surface the leaven is covered with a crust, as it were. It smells good, as soon as you get it, bubbles appear in places. Is it nothing that a crust (not even a crust, but a denser surface, winding)?

[Marina]

Marina - it is better to make a small hole in the lid and close the jar with it, then there will be no crust and the leaven will breathe

Oh, good morning! So glad!
A small hole is enough, will not suffocate? And then it will be a pity. "We are responsible for those we have tamed ..."

Good morning No it won't suffocate I have a hole 3mm in diameter and the leaven there is sooo good

Oh, good morning! So glad!
A small hole is enough, will not suffocate? And then it will be a pity. "We are responsible for those we have tamed ..."

And I tightened it with cling film, put on an elastic band, and pierced several holes in the film with a thin knife. I don't have a crust on the surface, but the surface is a little grayish, or something. And this is clearly not mold, there is only 2-3 degrees, it just dries up a bit. And when I select 30 g for bread, then I mix everything that remains and again cover with this film, and - in the refrigerator. A lid with a hole is also possible, of course.

Please consult me, pliiiz. At 14.00 of this day, the first 12 hours have passed after feeding. The leaven was in the bathroom, but there is only 23 degrees, so I don't see much growth. Yes, there is seething, but to "run away" like others, there is no such thing. The question is, should she be fed now or kept for some time in a warmer place?

Please consult me, pliiiz. At 14.00 of this day, the first 12 hours have passed after feeding. The leaven was in the bathroom, but there is only 23 degrees, so I don't see much growth.Yes, there is seething, but to "run away" like others, there is no such thing. The question is, should she be fed now or kept for some time in a warmer place?

It's okay, don't worry. This is how she should behave. Well this is just the beginning. I had, however, 25 degrees. But I think this is not critical. Bring to a slightly warmer room if worried.
On pages 22 and 23, my photos of sourdough in a jar, though there in a day (and even then it does not run away) and after two days (also not critical). If the heat is 30 degrees, then it can be very active, but not. Bread with her goes great!

Thank you, I'll go feed.

Thank you, I'll go feed.

And the first day I had a smell - like a mash, but as the day passed, it became pleasant to smell of fruity perfume, and a day later - it smells so delicious of green apples. So even by smell, you can navigate whether everything is in order.

I baked bread, but I didn't have enough sourness. What should be done to make the bread more acidic?

I baked bread, but I didn't have enough sourness. What should be done to make the bread more acidic?

I make such a bread, awesomely delicious, 20 g of natural apple cider vinegar is added there. Here, look, you might like:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=109387.0
I only put about 3 g of pressed yeast + 30 g of starter and feed 100 g of rye flour + 100 g of water. In general, as usual. Yeast - I put in the dough, and the leaven - when kneading on the Rye mode.

Or, if you want your own rye or wheat-rye recipe, add it to yours. Maybe not 20 g, but 10, for example. And then orient yourself, maybe you still need to, as for your taste. Only the vinegar must be natural, not a chemical essence.
You can also add sour milk, kefir, for example, or whey. I replace a third of the liquid (sometimes half) with it. More than half is usually not replaced.

Girls, tell me. So I took a spoonful of sourdough and added flour and water. I put it on the rise. But by the time she arrived, night fell and it was very late to bake bread. I put it in the refrigerator. Today I pulled it out. What are my actions now?

Girls, tell me. So I took a spoonful of sourdough and added flour and water. I put it on the rise. But by the time she arrived, night fell and it was very late to bake bread. I put it in the refrigerator. Today I pulled it out. What are my actions now?

Let the room warm up for an hour - and bake.

Delivered the semi-finished product on September 17. And now I just understand that November is already. I want to clarify, this leaven lasts 2 months and then you need to start a new one? again for 1 gram of yeast? I have never had it in a large quantity, always 2-3 tablespoons remained, I refresh the whole, I use most of it in bread and again 2-3 spoons remain. Very active. Do you still need to start a new one? in this already flora is not the same that is becoming?
The only thing that I noticed in it, with the way the heating was turned on, is stored on the refrigerator door, a little water forms on the surface, it also forms on the jar lid. Is this normal or is it still a sign that a new one is needed? In general, I got confused.
This is the best leaven! Darnitsky on it is just a fairy tale, the fragrant bread with seeds is amazing, baked pies on it with apple jam. She does everything well.

[Bosco]

Hi, Bosco!
No no! You don't need to start a new one! This starter culture can stand up to a month in the refrigerator WITHOUT refreshing. Then they take a tablespoon each time, refresh THIS spoon, return the rest to the refrigerator as it is, and it can be stored there for up to a month. When there is a little left, everything that is left is refreshed - 200 + 200 - taken for bread and the rest - in the refrigerator. And so it can work for years. This is a recipe.
But I am just like you not I keep a lot of sourdough in the refrigerator, I refresh the last spoon with 70 flour + 70 water, from there I take 70g. for bread. I still have about 100-120 g of sourdough, I keep it in the refrigerator. Enough for 2 weeks on average. And so since July.It happened to me that I kept the leaven for a month without refreshing, as per the recipe, and by the end of the month it began to clearly lose a little activity. Therefore, I decided not to store it for more than two or three weeks, but to refresh it earlier.
Is it clearer now?
You are doing everything right, and your starter culture pays you for it with activity and good bread.
And the water on the surface and me is formed a little, and the color on the surface slightly changes to grayish - this is normal. Just stir and you're fine.
By the way, I was still waiting for someone to answer your question about overfed wheat. But, apparently, people do not have such experience. And I have not. I think that if you are good at it, do it! Do not be afraid to try and gain your experience! Then you will still teach us!
By the way, how could I see pictures of your bread! Very interesting .

I, too, today took up the leaven, sealed at 12.10. There is a little condensation on top, slightly grayish, smells like mash, single bubbles. Not used for a long time for various reasons. There are 200 grams of it left. What to do: to refresh everything or leave it for a short while, perhaps I will use up the rest?

[🔗]

... Lyudmila embodied in her creations the manuals of Auerman and other Soviet publications, and he described the many years of experience in baking in Russia. No know-how.
Here is a link to Lyudmila 🔗
but on Auerman https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=2602.

Thank you for the links

I, too, today took up the leaven, sealed at 12.10. There is a little condensation on top, slightly grayish, it smells like mash, single bubbles. Not used for a long time for various reasons. There are only 200 grams of it left. What to do: to refresh everything or leave it for a short while, perhaps I will exhaust the rest?

I wouldn't refresh all of it unless you need a lot of it. From 200 grams of starter, if you refresh it correctly, you get a kilogram of fresh starter. What will you do with it?
I would separate 50 grams, refresh them, and unfortunately throw the rest away. It has been standing for a month, and if you keep it further, it will lose its strength.