Rye sourdough (semi-finished product)

VIKI, hello, I need your help. Yesterday evening I put in the leaven, almost a day has passed, and it does not rise at all. The inside and bottom is all in a hole, is this normal? Or can we start over?

like this



and this is the bottom view

Hi Natasha!
I waited here for a day, and decided to intervene. It seems to me that everything is going well with you, the holes are beautiful. And it does not grow up because the bank is big. I don't think you need to start over, go on.
What smell? How is it today?

kisuri, thanks for the help, today I got a little better, I have already started the second stage. And it smells, but I don't know what, but not missing. Tomorrow it will be clear, in theory it should rise.

It’s good that you weren’t scared that it doesn’t rise, and didn’t start at first. What wanders with us in the beginning is different bacteria fighting among themselves until enough acid accumulates (that is, it simply turns sour), which kills them, and creates an environment in which wild yeast lives and multiplies. And it can go faster (when it's hot, for example) or for some reason slow down. And only THEY know why.
Are you hot now?

The inside and bottom is all in a hole, is this normal?

It is perfectly!
There, on the first - second day, a little more alcohol is formed (for disinfection) and it is not very convenient for her to climb. And at the second stage, you can already rise.
Let's wait. Everything should work out.

kisuri, Viki, girls, thanks for the help.
It's cold here, outside + 15-18 and rains, well, it's cool in the apartment.
During the night it rose, bubbled, became like leaven, I once lived "eternal".
Tonight he will go to live in the refrigerator, but my temperature there is somewhere around + 5-7, I will probably have to lower it.

I don't think you need to touch the refrigerator. 5-7 * is the normal temperature for storing the starter culture.

How interesting!
I baked buns in the airfryer, but I didn't even try bread.
This convection confuses me. I didn't have it in the old oven with which I started, nor in the new one ... So, please share ...

Hello Viki, Forum users! Sorry for the "silence", there was no interesting news on the topic, and the summer load, in a sense, contributed to this. As promised, I spent several baked breads on rye sourdough and yeast in an airfryer (recipe, modes and photos - see above, reports dated 03/12/2012 and 03/14/2012), I want to share my impressions of this baking method.
1. The airfryer can be used quite successfully for baking both rye and wheat bread, but the best results of baking in the airfryer are obtained when baking bread with a flour weight of up to 500 grams. With large volumes of flour, the crumb is baked worse, and with an increase in the temperature or duration of baking, the crust burns ... This is all understandable and understandable, because the mass of the heat carrier (hot air) in relation to the mass of baked bread plays a decisive role here ... Yes, as an option for improving baking - distribution baked dough in two small rectangular forms, but then the holistic perception of the forms of the ready-made bread we are used to is lost.
2. The taste of bread is different at the initial stage of mastering baking, but, as a rule, it is not for long. As soon as you try and master baking bread in the oven with steam ... - the airfryer and the bread maker fade into the background, because only this method (this is my opinion ...) gives you the feeling of the most complete satisfaction from the results of baking, during which you get amazingly beautiful and perfect forms of bread with a unique taste of real homemade bread, returning us to our distant childhood ...
Here are mine (see.links) two different baked goods in the oven with steam according to the recipe (with some modifications) from Viki called Wheat bread on ripe dough (self-leavening), but it was baked in a mold. Viki, thanks for the recipe for ripe dough and this bread, I liked it. Yes, I didn’t save my sourdoughs in the heat, so now I work with ripe dough and pastries in the oven, but my ripe dough does not give that aroma of freshly baked bread that is heard outside the apartment, so I didn’t refuse the sourdough, now I’ll try to master the sourdough by the method of Raymond Calvel, something in it attracts me ... I wish you all successful and tasty pastries!

VIKI and members of the forum, good afternoon! I really need help, I have been reading the forum for a very long time and I use many recipes, but somehow writing everything does not work out in time. now I have such a problem, I am at war with leaven. Today at 19.00 it will be exactly 48 hours as I put the leaven for the second time (the first was about 3 months ago), but for some reason it doesn't grow very much, at first it doubled, and then the growth stopped and a crust formed on top. Stands in a plastic measuring cup covered with gauze in 4 layers. Yesterday I shifted the crust a little, everything is bubbling under the crust. So I don’t know what to do with all this? toss out? The old sourdough makes the bread sticky, so I decided to grow a new one.

[BYSENKA]

Hi, BYSENKA!
I do not VIKI , but if there are no other answers before 19-00, then it will be a pity if you, Anya, throw out a good blank. And, apparently, everything is working out fine for you: doubled, bubbles. That's Viki writes on the same page:

There, on the first - second day, a little more alcohol is formed (for disinfection) and it is not very convenient for her to climb. And at the second stage, you can already rise.
Let's wait. Everything should work out.

I don't think you need to throw it away. At 19-00 remove the crust, take out a tablespoon of what is "bubbling" and - forward, according to the recipe.
What smell does it have?

[kisuri]

kisuri ,: flowers: thanks for the answer, I decided for myself, I will go to the end ... it smells like braga, but not very much

[kisuri]

kisuri ,: flowers: thanks for the answer, I decided for myself, I will go to the end ... it smells like braga, but not very much

Well, that means that everything is really going as it should. Good luck! If anything - ask.
I am Ira

my leaven ferments very well, but after 7 hours it seems to me that it has already begun to settle. I guess I'll go and put on the bread.

my leaven ferments very well, but after 7 hours it seems to me that it has already begun to settle. I guess I'll go and put on the bread.

This is only your second feeding, right? And fermentation should be 12 hours, and you only have 7 passed. So what, what began to settle. That's right. Let it settle for itself, so by technology. And as 12 hours have passed, it must be fed again, and only after 12 hours can you bake. There is also a life and death struggle between microorganisms and we need to help wild yeast win it. And the first two rises are not yet the yeast is acting, but various other microbes, and there is an accumulation of acid in which wild yeast lives. Something like this, about ...
I would do like Vicki's recipe, and would not look at settling.

This is only your second feeding, right? And fermentation should be 12 hours, and you only have 7 passed. So what, what began to settle. That's right. Let it settle for itself, so by technology. And as 12 hours have passed, it must be fed again, and only after 12 hours can you bake. There is also a life and death struggle between microorganisms and we need to help wild yeast win it. And the first two rises are not yet the yeast is acting, but various other microbes, and there is an accumulation of acid in which wild yeast lives. Something like this, about ...
I would do like Vicki's recipe, and would not look at settling.

Ira, thank you for your responsiveness! Yes, not the second, but the third, the second was last night ... I understand that if it settles, it means that in order to bake bread, you need to make sourdough again for baking ??? I already have 400 grams of sourdough in my jar, it has increased by about 2.5 times

Ah, then I understand.Then, of course, you can bake, and the rest in the refrigerator for storage. And you are right that the stove is best when it rises to its maximum and starts to fall off.
I wish you success . I love this sourdough, there is not much trouble with it, but it turns out great bread.

[kisuri, Ira]

kisuri, Ira, Hi. I also have sourdough, when the last time I fed it, it rose 2 times and began to subside, and it was 7 hours after the last addition of flour and water. so I didn't wait 12 hours either. And I went to make the dough. True, I didn't immediately add it in time, but first I make the dough with part of the wheat flour from the recipe, knead it on the Pizza mode for 10-18 minutes, and then set the rye mode, but my stove has a temperature equalization before kneading for 45 minutes, and only then kneading, immediately before which I load the leaven into a bucket. So she did not immediately add how she began to fall off, but about 1.5 hours later.

Hi, Tanyush! Good to see you ! I remember, of course, recently and you had the same questions. And right now, you already ... So we all learn from each other!

Ira and Tanechka! thank you for participating in my long-suffering sourdough baked goods. I put the dough, but it doesn't seem to be in a hurry to rise. Can't it work again ??? but it's too late, the job is done, bread is on the rise, I will report on the results.

Anh, the main thing is not to panic! Well, why doesn't it work? You just put it on, right? The leaven is young, it has not yet gained strength. At first, I always put a little more yeast, along with the leaven, I don't count on it alone yet. The sourdough itself rose well, why didn't it raise the dough ?! Maybe it's not her, but the recipe? You and her should get used to each other.
Calm, only calm (don't remember, is it Winnie the Pooh?)

Ira and Tanechka! thank you for participating in my long-suffering sourdough baked goods. I put the dough, but it doesn't seem to be in a hurry to rise. Can't it work again ??? but it's too late, the job is done, bread is on the rise, I will report on the results.

Have you put in a bit of yeast? I put half the norm.

Have you put in a bit of yeast? I put half the norm.

Yes, not put ....: crazy: wanted without yeast

Anh, the main thing is not to panic! Well, why doesn't it work? You just put it on, right? The leaven is young, it has not yet gained strength. At first, I always put a little more yeast, along with the leaven, I don't count on it alone yet. The sourdough itself rose well, why didn't it raise the dough ?! Maybe it's not her, but the recipe? You and her should get used to each other.
Calm, only calm (don't remember, is it Winnie the Pooh?)

I will wait ... Ira, I have a question, but how do experienced bakers determine that it's time for bread to go into the oven ??? somewhere there must be bubbles, how's that? I see bubbles in the jar, but when the bread is kneaded, and it is standing in a ceramic bowl at the proofer, I don’t see it.

Then, of course, she needs more time ...
What's wrong with yeast?

I will wait ... Ira, I have a question, but how do experienced bakers determine that it's time for bread to go into the oven ??? somewhere there must be bubbles, how's that? I see bubbles in the jar, but when the bread is kneaded, and it is standing in a ceramic bowl at the proofer, I don’t see it.

What kind of bread? Rye? Mixed?

[Mistletoe]

What kind of bread? Rye? Mixed?

Rye bread with beer and sourdough https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=103534.0 on prescription Mistletoe.

Ingredients

Rye sourdough (liquid French) 250g.
Light beer 250g.
Rye flour 100g.
Wheat flour 200g.
Salt 1/2 tbsp. l.
Molasses (honey, sugar 1 tbsp. L.

Maybe I did something wrong, I'm just a kettle in sourdough business. Replaced the French leaven with ours, maybe it was impossible?

I am not an experienced baker, but I do not look for a while how much bread is in the proofer, but that it doubles in volume and then goes into the oven. And when I bake wheat. The first proofing is in HP.It rose 2-2.5 times, took it out, kneaded it slightly, formed a loaf of bread or a bar and - in a proofing basket, covered it with a film - and in a warm place 28-29 degrees. When it has doubled again, it's time to bake.
Well, maybe this is not right, but the bread is good. But I bake it on stone, on the hearth, so to speak. And if the proofing is in the form and baking in the oven in it, I won't tell you here, I didn't bake it like that. I only read that if the baking is in HP, then in the KhPshny bucket it should come up to a lower height than in the form, if the baking is in the oven, because in the HP from the beginning of baking it is not hot there, it takes time to warm up and during this time the dough is comes up and rises, and in the oven at once 200 or how many degrees are needed and the dough immediately begins to bake and there is no time for an additional rise.

[Mistletoe]

Rye bread with beer and sourdough https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=103534.0 on prescription Mistletoe.

Ingredients

Rye sourdough (liquid French) 250g.
Light beer 250g.
Rye flour 100g.
Wheat flour 200g.
Salt 1/2 tbsp. l.
Molasses (honey, sugar 1 tbsp. L.

Maybe I did something wrong, I'm just a kettle in sourdough business. Replaced the French sourdough with ours, maybe it was impossible?

Look, of course, these leavens behave differently, and simply replacing them with one another is a risk. But what could be so terrible? It may even turn out to be a very interesting bread, different, of course. Is French wheat? And this one will be rye. French - liquid, and this is 1: 1, quite thick. That means we need to count the water.
The bubbles are visible on the roof of the rye blank. It's a pity that I didn't know before, today I was making rye bread, with "bubbles", I would have photographed it. I don't look at the bubbles, I just know roughly how it should rise. For rye (where more than half of the rye flour, and you have more than half with the sourdough), it should rise one and a half times and you can bake.
Anya, we have to leave soon. We will come and see what you did there. I'll be in touch with you as much as I can, I'll tell you what I know. Do not be scared! You will learn! At first I was also confused, did not know, threw it away, it happened.

I am not an experienced baker, but I do not look for a while how much bread is in the proofer, but that it doubles in volume and then goes into the oven. And when I bake wheat. The first proofing is in HP. It rose 2-2.5 times, took it out, kneaded it slightly, formed a loaf of bread or a bar and - in a proofing basket, covered it with a film - and in a warm place 28-29 degrees. When it has doubled again, it's time to bake.
Well, maybe this is not right, but the bread is good. But I bake it on stone, on the hearth, so to speak. And if the proofing is in the form and baking in the oven in it, I won't tell you here, I didn't bake it like that. I only read that if the baking is in HP, then in the KhPshny bucket it should come up to a lower height than in the form, if the baking is in the oven, because in the HP from the beginning of baking it is not hot there, it takes time to warm up and during this time the dough is still comes up and rises, and in the oven at once 200 or how many degrees are needed and the dough immediately begins to bake and there is no time for an additional rise.

Tanya, I'm joining I just bake a lot in the form, you're right, there it is necessary to rise by one and a half times, no more. Let's talk some more!

Ira, Tanechka, thank you very much! I put the bread in the oven, turned on the light bulb, probably rose 1.5 times in 3.5 hours ... I'll wait while ...

put the bread in the oven and wait

Here, she came ... Well, how are you?

Anya, what happened there, the smells have already reached us.

smells all over our apartment ...: nyam: my daughter ran into the oven and looked in, and was even surprised that he got up (according to previous experience, I doubted) ... only the roof was blown off a little, I smell like beer, and home people say it smells like bread. The bread is still in the oven, I'll get it out soon and take a picture

Thank you

only the roof was blown off a little, it smells of beer to me, and the home people say it smells like bread. The bread is still in the oven, I'll get it out soon and take a picture

Thank you

Either you need to add some water or there is a second reason, connected with proofing. It seems like it's too early to start baking, it was necessary to have a longer distance, or vice versa, I get confused all the time. Ira, how is it right there, don't you know?
And I finally love it when it blows the roof off. We all adore this part of the bread.

OOPS ... I have a complete ambush .... the bread stuck, how can I get it from there ??


I think the roof was blown off, I stood there for a little time

Dont touch him! He will stand a little and he will lag behind.

Hurrah! I took it out, almost did not damage it, while I smeared it with oil, the powder crumbled, it will cool down, I will take a photo of the cut and show it ... Ira, Tanya, THANKS!

The bread looks pretty good at all. Round. But he clearly did not stand. Bread without yeast, on one leaven, it rises for a very long time. And even on such a young starter culture. I would put on this amount of flour ... 1-2 grams of dry yeast or 3-5 grams of fresh. And I would make a dough for an hour and a half. Or in the refrigerator overnight.

Hurrah! I took it out, almost did not damage it, while I smeared it with oil, the powder crumbled, it will cool down, I will take a photo of the cut and show it ... Ira, Tanya, THANKS!

Wait

Breadb looks pretty good at all. Round. But he clearly did not stand. Bread without yeast, on one leaven, it rises for a very long time. And even on such a young starter culture. I would put on this amount of flour ... 1-2 grams of dry yeast or 3-5 grams of fresh. And I would make a dough for an hour and a half. Or in the refrigerator overnight.

stood for a long time, almost 6 hours ... and another hour, probably, he would not hurt ... so I want to cut and try ...

[Viki]

Wait

Yeah, wait, the handsome guy came out with bread, don't worry, An.
And tomorrow I have an important guest - the toastmaster will come and the mother of the bride's son. In general, my future matchmakers have already visited us once, I used them here, and there was white and black bread (half rye and wheat, I wrote about it above). I also baked + 4 g of yeast on this leaven. So they liked him so much. The whole feast was most praised for him, although she prepared a lot of all sorts of goodies. Now I'll take out a semi-finished product for the night and put the sourdough to prepare for the night. And in the morning I'll bake them with me as a gift.
Viki, thanks again for the leaven!

[Viki]

Tanya, good luck in tomorrow, mother of the bride is very serious ...

a Viki, huge thanks for the starter!

Yes, this is true, very important, and there is a lot of excitement. So that everything goes well! And bread will help! This is exactly what at all feasts, if there is homemade bread, only conversations around it. When there is a smell of bread in the house, everything looks different.

Yes, this is true, very important, and there is a lot of excitement. So that everything goes well! And bread will help! This is exactly what at all feasts, if there is homemade bread, only conversations around it. When there is a smell of bread in the house, everything looks different.

Yeah, when I first met them, they came to visit, so I baked as many as 3 loaves of bread out of fear, so worried. This black one, I baked it in HP, and in the oven I baked a stagnant loaf and a loaf of Romina. Palyanitsa then gave them half of the rye that remained from the dinner party. So there were enough bread smells, such an aura soared. And also good Georgian wine and brandy. We sat heartily.

So, good matchmakers (ugh, ugh, ugh!) So that

Well, FSE, Anyuta! I go to sleep without seeing the cut! It's a hard mental test although that's right, you need to let the bread cool well... Goodnight!
I hope to see the cut tomorrow, if, of course, you have time to photograph

Here is the promised bread, I had to beat the hands of my family, while I take a photo ...

Thank you all very much ...

Now I have counted the recipe for my favorite bread and loaded it into the bread maker (we are leaving for a visit, the bread machine is a lifesaver), I will report on the result.

, what a handsome!!!
The leaven is working, well done