Rye custard bread is real (almost forgotten taste). Baking methods and additives

Thank you all, everything worked out, I bought rye malt and things got better

Now you can also master rye kvass with malt for a complete gentleman's set!

nope, I want to learn how to make leaven, I don’t know why yet, but it’s not given to me in any way, I need to establish contact with it to calm my soul

nope, I want to learn how to make leaven, I don’t know why yet, but it’s not given to me in any way, I need to establish contact with it to calm my soul

It is very easy.

A few days of fermentation and your happiness.
So many sourdough options on the forum.

there is no happiness - it does not rise ... the leaven

there is no happiness - the leaven does not rise

If you continue not to read this, then it is true.
Read and it will work.
Yeast is like honey!
Here he is and he is no longer there !!!
So it is with yeast, if there is one, then there are no miracles!
And then, everything is correct!

can you tell me a good sourdough for rye bread? While chatting, my 2 breads from the Panas 257 recipe book were baked, the main thing is to hold out until the morning and not cut, like the previous one))))

[ma-ri-na]

nope, I want to learn how to make leaven, I don’t know why yet, but it’s not given to me in any way, I need to establish contact with it to calm my soul

ma-ri-na, that's about the question you are interested in

Vikkina sourdough - French

but in general about the leaven mulberry

I accurately measured all the ingredients according to your recipe, loaded everything according to the instructions. Bread maker Kenwood450, programmed as you wrote. The batch has begun - nothing to do with the video course. The mixer hardly turns somewhere in the depth, the dough in torn dry lumps - by itself. The dough is very dry and completely unsatisfactory. After 15 minutes, I pulled it out of the bread machine, added a tablespoon of water and put it back for another 10 minutes. Still not so. Very tough dough. Let's see how it will rise

The dough has not risen. It turned out something not edible at all.

Hello! Can you please tell me if it is possible to bake Borodino without agram, but there is a mixture of Borodino that is sold in "Peki itself"

[solomka]

solomka, agram is a leaven, right? If you have not yet decided to start your own sourdough and there is no purchased one, but there is Borodino - rub an apple into the dough, preferably sweet and sour, for 500 grams of flour - 100-120 grams of apples. mashed potatoes. Checked! I'm a fan of Borodinsky ...

Irish, agram is not a sourdough in fact, but something like a flavoring agent and baking powder ... It has a sweet and sour taste with an admixture of malt, so the apple will be just as welcome as apple cider vinegar, and ascorbic acid, etc. etc. A mixture of Borodino is usually added 70-100 grams per 500 grams of flour. On the site we have many options for Borodino bread, including with the use of a mixture of Borodino

Galyun, as a starter culture, is positioned by manufacturers, but in fact - of course not - since yeast is still required
True, if you read it carefully, then after the heading ZAKVASKI and the name AGRAM light / dark there is the following text:
"Dry leavens (acidifiers) for the production of bread ...."
That is, a trick - like a sourdough, but with a clarification - an acidifier ...
And I have been baking for a long time on my own (that is, mk from Admin), and now I try it in rye vendemiyskaya on grape must, it seems not bad, but it has less acid than in mk-rye ... unusual - two years mk ...

Nagira, thanks for the advice, here's another poke my nose where there is a recipe for sourdough and, if possible, a recipe for Borodinsky with an apple, drooling is already flowing)))))

[Tyts]

Our leavens live here Tyts

Thank you so much!!!!

The dough has not risen. It turned out something not edible at all.

Perhaps you need to look for a mistake.

[All the conversations]

All the conversations it is more convenient to talk about leavens (acidifiers) in the relevant topic.

I note that apples, lactic acid, vinegar (acetic acid), ascorbic acid (ascorbic acid), like citric acid in light / dark agram, act as a substitute for a group of acids formed in the process of long-term fermentation of natural starter cultures, which, as a rule, takes place within several days.
Understanding this simple thing helps you quickly make substitution or selection of ingredients if necessary.


This thread provides an example of how you can fast and stable receive rye custard bread in three hours in a bread maker.

But my stove does not want to bake rye bread in any way ((((

But my stove does not want to bake rye bread in any way ((((

If you need help, then just write.
To do this, you need to indicate the model of your bread machine in your profile and completely write what, how much and how you added, which modes you used for baking. Upload here a photo of the cut of the resulting bread.
Otherwise, rye bread may not work for a long time.
I do not know of a single example when someone wanted to learn and did not learn how to bake rye bread.

If you need help, then just write.
To do this, you need to indicate the model of your bread machine in your profile and completely write what, how much and how you added, which modes you used for baking. Upload here a photo of the cut of the resulting bread.
Otherwise, rye bread may not work for a long time.
I do not know of a single example when someone wanted to learn and did not learn how to bake rye bread.

Sorry, it was already a cry from the heart! I have a Panasonic 257, he has never baked normal rye bread, I have already tried everything. Yesterday I ran out of all the malt, as soon as I buy a new one, I'll start the fight again. Sorry again for off-topic

Sorry, it was already a cry from the heart! I have a Panasonic 257, he has never baked normal rye bread, I have already tried everything. Yesterday I ran out of all the malt, as soon as I buy a new one, I'll start the fight again. Sorry again for off-topic

Well, they will apologize here unnecessarily, but you came (returned) exactly where you will be taught!
I have already answered you several times, but something apparently did not work out with understanding in March.
If you are still determined to learn and choose the taste of baked rye bread for yourself, then everything depends only on you, whether you learn or not.
According to your past experience, you almost got bread.
Write when you're ready and let's get started!

I have no idea where to buy malt and "Agram" (and what is it in general?)

[Nfy.irf777]

I have no idea where to buy malt and "Agram" (and what is it in general?)

Nfy.irf777, here is the malt: 🔗

And here is Agram, light: 🔗

... and dark: 🔗

And here you can read what it is and where / how to use it: 🔗

Can you please tell me why, after pulling out the bread, the end of the eating, does the roof go down?

Can you please tell me why, after pulling out the bread, the end of the eating, does the roof go down?

The solution is simple:
1. The height of rise of rye dough is no more than twice, a little less is better.
It is regulated by the rise time of the dough or the amount of yeast at a fixed rise time.
2. The amount of water in the dough, most likely, needs to be reduced by 20 - 40 ml.

More details with a full description of the processes, what and how they did, how much and what they took
and shown a large photo of the cut of the resulting bread.

And in general terms, the approach to solving this issue looks like this
and consists of three components:
1. Rise time.
2. The amount of water.
3. The amount of yeast.
The less gluten in the flour and the more water,
the lower the lifting height at which the dough will hold its shape (height) when baking.
Your task is to find this ratio in each case.
Consider also the fact that when baking,
carbon dioxide in the dough will begin to heat up and expand,
which will further increase the rise of the dough.
If the limit of keeping the height is exceeded by the dough, then the failure of the "roof" of the bread is not avoided.
During the process of lifting and baking, do not open the lid of the bread machine wide and for a long time.
To achieve a stable result,
all food and water to be poured should be at room temperature.

Vanya28, I have the same story as Nad59. I put all the ingredients strictly according to the recipe. I did it 3 times and three times I had to add 50 grams of water to make the dough go thin. And even with so much water, the dough was trying to curl up all the time. Maybe it's the flour? I have peeled rye flour manufacturer trading house Fair in Petrozavodsk.

Vanya28, I have the same story as Nad59. I put all the ingredients strictly according to the recipe. I did it 3 times and three times I had to add 50 grams of water to make the dough go thin. And even with so much water, the dough was trying to curl up all the time. Maybe it's the flour? I have peeled rye flour manufacturer trading house Fair in Petrozavodsk.

Watch the movie about kneading, where you can see approximately the required consistency of the dough.
Then everything is not difficult. If the dough is too thick after 15 minutes of kneading with your flour, then add 20-30 ml of water and repeat the kneading.
With proper yeast, the first time you observe the rise of the dough, it should rise no higher than twice.
If it rises earlier than an hour, then forcibly switch the oven to baking.
If you do not have time to rise in an hour, then turn off the oven and wait for the rise to reach the desired height and turn on the baking.
Adjust your recipe for local yeast and local flour based on your results.
Good luck and write if something goes wrong. Show results.

My dough is already in the first minutes well ochchcheeeen cool. The scapula is barely turning. Reduced the amount of flour by 50g, water still had to be added. The bread was not high and the crumb was dense from below, but perforated closer to the "roof". Next time I will definitely take a picture and show it.

[repetition of the taste of Borodinsky]

...
The bread rose beautifully, there was no "collapsed roof".
The taste of "custard".
BUT! The crumb is damp, there is no porosity, even when it stood for 10 hours, it remained a little like plasticine on the knife.
Did you miss the flour?
And yet - the crust is crispy, but very thick and rough. Why is it mb?
Of course, as soon as I get hold of Agram, Panifarin and so on. I will bake some more. This is a fascinating business!

For repetition of the taste of Borodinsky, in this recipe not enough ground cumin.
If there is no Agram, then prepare the leaven for 4 days and vinegar just in case the acidity of the leaven is not enough.
The finished recipe, for your stove, see this section, topic Borodino bread - everything is very simple - from rye custard bread.
If you want to add wheat flour, then instead of rye, add up to 100 - 120 grams of wheat flour, this practically does not change the taste of rye, only the crumb. Well, or as in your choice 225 gr. It remains only to pick up the amount of water.
In this thread there are posts on how to bake this bread with sourdough. Read it.

Fight crunchy and bite-free crust passes easily if put the cooled loaf in a large saucepan with the lid ajar, after a few hours, the crust will become soft.
Choose which crust is closer to you.

[Vanya28]

Vanya28

Thank you.
I read a lot, my head was already dizzy from the abundance of recipes, the nuances were all messed up in my head

I will experiment with sourdough and water-flour.

In fact, I already had a “breath in the goiter” from the fact that the white bread turned out right away. I expected a fiasco.
It's good that I read this forum and, on the contrary, made a bookmark and bought SAF yeast. In general, I am infinitely happy.

For me it’s like a new world (I learned how to bake only a year ago, in the oven according to Chadeykin’s recipes).

Hello! Please tell me what size of form (L or XL) should be set for Panasonic 2500 when combining programs "Basic Fast" + "Baking" for rye custard bread, if done strictly according to your recipe with the output of 1 kg of baked bread.

To repeat the taste of Borodinsky, this recipe lacks ground cumin.

In no case, for the taste of Borodino bread, you need ground coriander, not caraway.
Caraway gives taste to Baltic breads, Lithuanian, Riga, etc.

Moderator's note.
The author is mistaken in his remark, we read about it in the next post.

[In no case]

In no case, for the taste of Borodino bread, you need ground coriander, not cumin.
Caraway gives taste to Baltic breads, Lithuanian, Riga, etc.

Pakat, you are wrong and perhaps not carefully read the two recipes commented here.
Here is an extract, below in the text, from the 1950 specifications for the preparation of Borodino bread.
Read and correct your post.
The main difference Riga bread from Borodino bread, in addition to the absence of coriander, is to use White rye malt instead of Red rye malt.

BORODINSKY BREAD
GOST 5309-50
Technical conditions
Borodino bread made in a brewed way from a mixture of rye flour
wallpaper in the amount of 80%, wheat grade II in the amount of 15%, red
rye malt in the amount of 5% with the addition of salt, sugar, molasses and
sourdough coriander, cumin or anise with or without addition
yeast.

Ground coriander and ground cumin are added to the dough,
and coriander seeds are additionally used for sprinkling on bread.
Also, which is not reflected in the TU, caramel color was used to give a very dark color to the bread.
Ready-made Borodino bread in the 50-70s of the last century still had a special paper ring-etiquette of a dark red-purple color around the loaf.

In the theme recipe - Borodino bread - everything is very simple - from rye custard bread, used peeled rye flour, instead of rye wallpaper, What allow refuse from wheat flour grade II, and the use of dark honey allows, accordingly, to abandon molasses, while maintaining, very precisely, the taste of the original Borodino bread.
(Note from the author of the recipe).

[Basic fast]

Hello! Please tell me what size of form (L or XL) should be set for Panasonic 2500 when combining programs "Basic Fast" + "Baking" for rye custard bread, if done strictly according to your recipe with the output of 1 kg of baked bread.

Displayable size, L or XL in mode Basic fast doesn't matter since you switch to the program Bakery products without waiting for the end of the program Basic fast, and there this option no longer works.
Success!

Good day to all lovers of bread baking. ) I got an assistant bread maker, delivered it yesterday and tested it yesterday on a white bread in the French mode. The mule 6000 coped with the task superbly. As in my opinion, the crust is very baked on medium mode, but my husband is delighted with this crumbness))
Today I am going to test it on bread made from this temka. But I don't know if it is possible to turn it on after baking a maximum of 1.10 for another 20-30 minutes. Maybe he will ask for a rest? and I can't turn it on for another 20-30 minutes ...
And another question, in comparison with model 6002, instead of Borodinsky, the mode is gluten-free, but as I understood from the topic of baking, it will not be enough in 1 hour and it is better to go by the way - dough-baking? right?
and another question - to lay the products strictly according to the description or still according to the instructions for my stove? I have liquids first, then dry

...
Today I am going to test it on bread made from this temka. But I don't know if it is possible to turn it on after baking a maximum of 1.10 for another 20-30 minutes. Maybe he will ask for a rest? and can't turn it on for another 20-30 minutes ...
And another question, in comparison with model 6002, instead of Borodinsky, the mode is gluten-free, but as I understood from the topic of baking, it will not be enough in 1 hour and it is better to go by the way - dough-baking? right?
and another question - to lay the products strictly according to the description or still according to the instructions for my stove? I have liquids first, then dry

I don’t know how the 6000 stove will behave when adding the baking time after the end of the program. I can only assume by analogy with the 6002/6004 models, everything turns out and works there. The step-by-step baking process for these models is described in the recipe. How do you succeed, write.
You need to bake this recipe in your bread maker using a combination of two programs.
There is no difference how to put the ingredients, with one exception - water from above, the agitator oil seal will serve for a long time. And after the end of baking, immediately turn the mixer without applying much force, and if the mixer is jammed, do not touch it and soak it first. pouring hot water into a bucket.

I did not notice the effect of salt on the activity of yeast, but the addition of acidifiers has a very strong effect.

p.s.
Moulinex 6000, in this case, works the same as the 6002/6004 model.

Good day. Thanks for the recipe.

In my opinion, the bread was a success, my husband really liked it. The crumb is moderately porous, not wet. The only drawback in my opinion is not very convex, almost even * roof * of bread)) But this is for my taste, I love that it would rise as much as a semicircle)) And still a little minus - again for me - it seemed in the medium crust mode, which is a little thick and firm. But the husband considered it the other way around as a virtue. I'll try to follow. times on the light crust mode Unfortunately - * for technical reasons * I can not post a photo, but in the next. once I promise to fix it.
Indeed, at my own peril and risk, I did amateur performances ... Putting the dishes on the scales under the malt, poured the required amount, poured boiling water over it, left it to brew. Then she added a spoon, which I was accustomed to according to the recipe for baking in the oven (I baked more than once and successfully) * Liquid malt TM Irex Winner * and added the missing volume with water and diluted a spoonful of molasses in this, well, I really wanted to)
As an acidifier I use * Sourdough acidifier Bavaria TM Irex * - it was added according to the recipe
Speaking of the kolobok, my dough rolled, but I didn't dilute it into such a soft, not dense kolobok, because in consistency it reminded me of my usual appearance when kneading for the oven)

I don’t know how the 6000 stove will behave when adding the baking time after the end of the program. I can only assume by analogy with the 6002/6004 models, everything turns out and works there. The step-by-step baking process for these models is described in the recipe. How do you succeed, write.

Indeed, the time in my model was added elementary. With this, everything is the same as in the 6002 model)

There is no difference how to put the ingredients, with one exception - water from above, the agitator oil seal will serve for a long time. And after the end of baking, immediately turn the mixer without applying much force, and if the mixer is jammed, do not touch it and soak it first. pouring hot water into a bucket.

But the water, that is, the liquid with malt, without waiting for an answer, was poured first, as according to the instructions for the stove ... The question is, is it only in this recipe to preserve the performance of the oil seals is it worth changing the order - is the water last, or in general?

Having read the forums on which they write in different ways, I would like to understand all the same - how best to place my dough mixers - parallel, turning towards each other ...?)))))

Thank you for your help and support)

Hello!
I have HP quite recently. For the first time I made rye custard bread according to the recipe from page 1 (post 1). Thanks to the author.
The only thing that I did not have peeled rye flour and I used regular rye and added a little Coriander seasoning. It turned out great, delicious !!! Now I am making this bread for the second time.

[jam]

Good day. Thanks for the recipe.

Having read the forums on which they write in different ways, I would like to understand all the same - how best to place my dough mixers - parallel, turning towards each other ...?)))))

Thank you for your help and support)

With water and stirrers, everything is very, very simple to understand.
The less likely water will flow into the gap between the stuffing box and the agitator shaft, the better.
And this probability is greatly reduced when the water is on top of you.
We think the answer is clear.
And turn the stirrers right after baking with your hands and effortlessly.
If a jam agitators, do not touch them, so as not to damage the oil seal, but pour water and soak it, and only then turn it several times.
The oil seal will then serve for a long time.

Thanks for the recipe. I baked 5 times 1.5 kg each - according to your maximum recipe. Delicious. I give proofing for an hour 10 minutes - it turned out to be optimal for my flour. Oven Panasonic 257.

Following your advice, I ask a question here, more precisely, I answer the agram I have a light one, there can be no mistake because I ordered the light one, and the box says "light", and it looks light (I saw the dark one in the picture - it's not it!) wooooot ...........
And when I measured it, I noticed that black agram was needed less than light, that's why when it was baked, I immediately began to sin ..........
And if it's not difficult to answer one more question, I already wrote about panifarin, maybe it is worth adding it to make the bread more luxurious?

....
And if it's not difficult to answer one more question, I already wrote about panifarin, maybe it is worth adding it to make the bread more luxurious?

Of course you can add.
Any wheat flour can easily cope with this task instead of Panifarin.
Up to a glass of wheat flour, you can make a substitute and the taste will be rye,
if you add more, it will already be noticeable that the bread is not very rye.
The amount of water you really have to pick up when replacing.
And write in full when asked,
what and how much they used.
Show the cut.

The question with the rise of the test is hanging with you.
Specify (write) the conditions,
let's figure it out.
Success, once again !!!

[Vanya28]

Vanya28
Hello, I am mastering Alaska and the theory of baking, I really want to try baking pure rye bread. Can you tell me something about my HP? And a couple more questions. My parents are diabetics, so all recipes are viewed through "this prism." And your recipe, as I understand it, is based on a loading dose of sugar, fructose or honey. All this is possible for diabetics in very moderate quantities, or will yeast process everything to harmless components, because bread does not have a sweet aftertaste? And what, apart from leaven (laziness to mess around), can temporarily replace agram, while it was not possible to buy, can you add vinegar for sourness?

[Vanya28]

Vanya28
Hello, I am mastering the HP Alaska and the theory of baking, very xI will try to bake pure rye bread. Can you tell me something about my HP? And a couple more questions. My parents are diabetics, therefore, all recipes are viewed through "this prism". And your recipe, as I understand it, raising the dough is based on the loading dose of sugar, fructose or honey. All this is possible for diabetics in very moderate quantities, or will yeast process everything to harmless components, because bread does not have a sweet aftertaste? And what other than leaven (laziness) can you temporarily replace agram, while it was not possible to buy, maybe add vinegar for sourness?

A table of all modes of this bread machine is here:
Bread maker Alaska-ВМ2600
and accordingly in Morphy richards and all the clones Morphy richards: - Alaska BM2600, Benten BN-7590, Benten BN-7591, Binatone BM-1068, Clatronic BBA 2605, Clatronic BBA 2864, Clatronic BBA 2866, Daewoo DBM-151, Daewoo DI-3200S, Elenberg BM-3100, ETA 1149 SYMPATIC , First 5150, Kenwood BM210, Liberton LBM02, ORION OBM-101, Orion OBM-204, Rolsen RBM-938, Rotex RBX-38Y, Saturn ST-EC1775 Leda, Saturn 1775, UNIT UAB 813, WEST BM903WS.

In your bread maker and all similar clones Morphy richards the program will consist of a combination of two programs: Program # 8 "Dough"+ Program No. 12"Bakery products".
With the program Dough, kneading as in Panasonic, read the topic. What to pay attention to is the height of the rise of the dough, it must be controlled, the rise is no more than twice. As soon as the dough reaches the desired height, switch the bread maker by holding the button Start, choose programs Bakery products and start baking. After 20 - 25 minutes, hold down the button Start turning off the stove and start the program Bakery products again. This will allow you to get total baking time 1 hour 30 minutes.
Success!
You can substitute a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar or wine vinegar for agram, reducing the amount of water in the recipe by 40 ml. Take a look movie 🔗, in the subject.
You are wrong about sugar, honey and fructose. It's all for the taste. Yeast will raise everything without it.
But the taste will not be so elegant.
If you have consumers diabetics, use fructose, it is easier for them.
You can reduce its amount by half, but do not rush with it.
Check your blood sugar with a glucometer.
You will see that this recipe does not have a dramatic increase in blood sugar.
Verified.
Show the result of baked bread.

Thank you very much, I will definitely try .... but somehow unusual, if honestly. It is worth crying all over the forum that more or less rye bread cannot be lifted, let alone pure rye, why does it really fight with sourdoughs for 60 minutes and without sugars to rise, okay, after kneading, I'll take out a shovel, and then according to the situation. Forgive me, but two more questions and I'll leave it alone, only today I read that unboiled water is better, like more oxygen, but you have the opposite, and with the start button, as if you do not need to release it, according to the instructions, the pressed start is long-stop at this place, then using the menu button to select a baking program and then start again, or is there a different temperature setting for your method, or is it just faster?

Thank you very much, I will definitely try .... but somehow unusual, if honestly. It is worth crying throughout the forum that more or less rye bread cannot be lifted, let alone pure rye, Why do they fight with sourdoughs, really, too, 60 minutes and rise without sugars, okay, after kneading, I'll take out the spatula, and then according to the situation. Forgive me, but two more questions and I'll leave it alone, only today I read that unboiled water is better, like more oxygen, but you have the opposite, and with the start button, as if you do not need to release it, according to the instructions, the pressed start is long-stop at this place, then using the menu button to select a baking program and then start again, or is there a different temperature setting for your method, or is it just faster?

About the Start button, we are talking about the same thing. Think about it.

Your unusual feeling will melt if you read the whole topic.
And you will look at "crying" with a smile !!!

And the correct understanding will come to you how to deal with rye bread in particular, and with bread in general.
In your case, taking out the scapula is unnecessary.

You don't need to boil good spring water.
Boiling has the goal of removing chlorine and hard salts from water.
We are waiting for the result and a long, long smile from you!

Tomorrow or after tomorrow, as a last resort, I will, I undertake to report. I really did not master the whole topic, although I read a third, I will choose the time to reread the whole, but the forum is at least 3 years old, well, there are so many people in the dark. Okay, practice soldier, let's see and smile.

[Admin]

Tomorrow or after tomorrow, as a last resort, I will, I undertake to report. I really did not master the whole topic, although I read a third, I will choose the time to reread the whole, but the forum is at least 3 years old, why are there so many people in the dark. Okay, practice soldier, let's see and smile.

Well, there is a lot of good material on the forum,
take a walk to Admin eg,
she has a lot of material for beginners.
I drew your attention only to "cry",
about difficulties with rye bread,
as a rule, they are afraid of him when there is not enough experience and knowledge.
Have you come to specialized topic of rye of bread

and ask questions here.
Everything is really not difficult, you just have to read and try!
And quickly become a pro!
Like that!

[Vanya28]

Merry Christmas to you, bakers.
Vanya28
I baked a rye Christmas tartlet, I report.


I did everything according to the recipe, I just counted everything for 400 g of flour, electronic scales. Instead of agram, as they said, a spoonful of vinegar. The only bookmarking order is as usual, liquid, flour, yeast with fructose.But the kneading presented a surprise, after five minutes of stirring, I realized that all the flour did not get wet, I added 2 tbsp. spoons of water, the dough remained very thick and tried to stray into a bun, added two more, the bun was gone, but the dough is much thicker than in the video course, I decided to add two more, the dough is still thick, but did not add more.
According to HP, the dough program works by kneading-obmin, after 20 minutes-proofing. For rye dough, just knead is needed? I took out the spatula. And how 60 minutes are counted. with or without mixing?
I think all the same, I poured water, it tastes a bit too much for fructose, but you can eat.
I look forward to your comments.