French starters

[Raisins]

Raisins! Thank God, and you can't sleep!

himichka, so touching. Thank you so much. My nose stung. Truth. (For some reason I have become so sentimental - soon I will only be able to watch cartoons. And then - funny.)

Girls, the fact is that just to this, the correct state I described, I do not bring her. I decided that if it is like this, then it will peroxide and be spoiled. That's why I feed her in advance. It turns out that I feed her at the moment when the whole mass of the leaven is taken in small, small bubbles. And she just starts to grow. Oh! Ryo began to cry. I ran ...

[Luke]

Luke

hold your handkerchief, can you reach it? Or I'll wipe your tears, snot myself, so as not to drink :) Everything will be fine.

If you feed long before the leaven reaches the state of "boiling" (this is the name of the process that you described), then you might not have ripened.
Only how do you then know that it does not rise 2 times if you are in a hurry to feed?
Try to follow her at least once. Feed, make a mark on the container, and let it rise to the maximum until it starts to fall off. Here you will see how much it really rises. It grows 3 times for me, if I don’t keep track of it. But I prefer to feed as soon as it doubles, not to take it to extremes.
It is not very convenient to wait for the moment of the peak of growth, therefore we take the averaged "2 times" and feed at this moment.

In short, when the leaven is poured, I focus on 2 main points:

- I feed as it reaches the peak of growth (or 2 times);
- I add fresh flour no less than the weight of the sourdough.

I change the proportion depending on how quickly I need a mature sourdough.

Got it! I'll do it. Label! Well, what a head you are! I need to put tags. And then I, damn it, everything "by eye" .... I just found a pen and was honored to make a mark on a glass jar. Thanks for the detailed answer. Very in the subject.

PS: chase the handkerchief!

Brothers, let's talk to you, eh?

[Luke]

Luke

ahhha, it's all about them, about the labels. They will bring us your leaven to clean water and bring it out.

[Himichka]

Girls, I write, gnawing the second crust of Plain Bread. Already doted.
Himichka, I need to ask you for a nickname. For it fits me very much: my whole window sill is lined with jars, bottles, cones. Everything is signed, marked ... My relatives look at me silently, but askance.

I report: to make it work for sure, I did everything that was advised. And she spread all sorts of different brews. And she stirred water in a liter, and took a piece of the dough, etc. In short, it turned out 4 cans. I marked everything. The next morning, the picture is the same. All starter cultures are in small vials. Growth - 0%. Standing dead. I waited all day - no results. The bubbles became larger, but there was no increase.

Putting re to bed, I decided to ask himichka send a starter. And in general, I got confused by the search for metaphysical reasons why my leaven does not ferment as it should. Like, what kind of radiation that day when I turned her on killed the most important bacterium? And now, no matter how much you feed her ...

In short, I decided to throw them (all) away. Because I was reluctant to contain such an army of gluttonous useless bubbles. I went up to the window late in the evening - and my leaven was climbing out of the cans in different directions! Literally, Mishkina's some kind of porridge! Rheth, you know! I have never had this before. I was delighted - scary. Let's shove her back into the banks, pour something over, feed her, honey.

Today I baked Simple on it. Smell - go crazy! True, not yet ideal. I did not leave for two hours, but about 5 hours. But I think that I will soon bring the leaven to the required condition.

Thank you so much for your participation and help.

himichka - for the correct diagnosis of my leaven. BUT Zest gave out a key phrase that since I am feeding her correctly, that is, "when the leaven begins to fall off"! And I was just trying to prevent her from falling even a little bit! On the contrary, she constantly fed her, not allowing her to mature. Constantly diluted with a new portion of flour. And as a result, she was completely weakened. So that she was resuscitated in only 2 days in a warm place without food. Here.

Maybe someone will find my experience useful.

PS: Hurray for the forum! An amazing thing: you just have to complain about something, and before you have time to send a post, you begin to guess yourself what the problem is. And the participants' answers complete the whole matter. Thank you! I want to swing at sourdough French!

ZYZY: If I got such a delicious bread with an unfinished sourdough, imagine what it should be, in theory, with the right substance!

Girls, I write, gnawing the second crust of Plain Bread. Already doted.

A hammer! Hip-hip urrraa! Everything worked out for you!
A little more and by one appearance you will determine whether it is time to feed the leaven or you can wait a little longer

Girls! Yesterday I baked Italian (recipe 190 gr. Sourdough where) well, there was batter, there was a guard)) it was not salted, but in structure it’s not even more than 3 cm in height))) it looks like pita bread)) apparently very liquid dough))

py. sy.: there are so many pages in Temka already .... I do not know how to use the search in the topic ...: red: do not tell me how? I want to find a recipe for the vaunted plain and French breads from Lyudmila ....

[VerbaO]

VerbaO

The dough in Italian really comes out liquid, but in the process of kneading and developing gluten, a ball with a rather strong shell on top and a liquid inside (in, explained) is collected in such a ball, but it is quite possible to work with it. It rises very well both in proofing and in the oven.
Either you kneaded the dough poorly (gluten did not develop) or the flour was weak. Keep in mind that Lyudmila's recipes are designed for strong Canadian flour; for our flour, water must be taken away from her recipes.

huh means ... keep some water ... next time ...
Thank you

py. sy.: there are so many pages in Temka already .... I do not know how to use the search in the topic ...: red: do not tell me how? I want to find a recipe for the vaunted plain and French breads from Lyudmila ....

and we do not have a search specifically on the topic ... you can only use it in general. Now I tried to find these recipes myself with his help - it is very problematic. It's easier for me to repeat them again.

[French]

French

Recipe

For two oval or round hearth breads, 420-450g each (pain boulot with several diagonal, two central overlapping or one straight cut along the length, boule, pain fendu). Contains 1.9% rye flour.



Dough: 38g sourdough (25g flour), 52g wheat flour, 4g rye flour, 32g water. 6-8 hours at 25C, 3.5 times in volume.

Dough: 493g wheat flour, 7g rye flour, 1g yeast, 11g salt, 325g water, whole dough. Flour with water 4 minutes on the 1st, 20 minutes of swelling, 5 minutes of kneading on the 2nd.

Fermentation 1h 20min; select a piece of "sourdough" dough for dough for tomorrow's bread. Preliminary proofing 30 min. Final proofing 2.5 hours upside down in baskets or seam bottom in burlap. Cut except for fendu.

Steam oven or lid oven, 40min at 465F. R. Calvel 1994
Plain

Recipe
for 2 loaves of 400-450g each

340g ripe sourdough (170g flour, 170g water)
400g flour
10g salt

1-2 tbsp. l. oils (optional)

200g water

Knead the dough without salt and fat for 4 minutes.
let it ferment for half an hour or an hour. Stir in the salt and oil, stirring for 4 minutes.
Shape the bread
Give the bread 2 hours warm
Cut, lubricate with water and bake on a steam hearth for 25 minutes at 465F.
This bread does not need to be cut. You can also bake it with a smooth crust

You are lovely
Thank you

[French]

French......

I did this French more than once, awesome, fragrant, light and somehow dry, or something, but does not crumble.
behold

a word from starter starters in French. I read the recipe for creating a leaven from the first page of this section, as a result of which questions arose. it is not written how, where and what to store it, what, when and how much to feed it. And where does the second half go in the initial stage of cooking? I would be glad to receive an answer with clarifications.

[victosh]

a word from starter starters in French. I read the recipe for creating a leaven from the first page of this section, as a result of which questions arose. it is not written how, where and what to store it, what, when and how much to feed it. And where does the second half go in the initial stage of cooking? I would be glad to receive an answer with clarifications.

The first page contains the temperature conditions (ideally 30 - 40 * C). It is written: any NON-metal basin. There are photos of such "basins" with caps with small holes. It is prescribed by the hour when to feed and by grams how much to feed. We throw away the other half mercilessly (this is just a working material for creating sourdough).
I tried so hard, I wrote, but you write: not written
victosh, let us join us, together we will grow leaven and bake delicious bread. Everything will definitely work out! Ready? Then let's get started and good luck!
Yes, a few more words: I feed it with wheat flour, I store it without a refrigerator. Since it is already quite hot now, I feed 1:50, that is, I take 5 grams. starter cultures + 125 gr. water and 125 gr. flour. Should be enough for 12 hours, but not always enough. I store everything in the same plastic container with a slightly open hole. It was easier in winter.

I read the topic with great interest, but I just can't follow the very first link 🔗 in the first post (it is suggested to register - and where to look then?) because I am a very novice user, but what can I do, tell me?

[Alim]

I read the topic with great interest, but I just can't follow the very first link in the first post (it is suggested to register - and where to look afterwards?) Because I am a very novice user, but what can I do, tell me?

Alim, alas, the French woman's recipe is no longer there, as far as I know, they removed ... So read with us, we will help.

alas, the French woman's recipe is no longer there.

Yes, the recipe is in place, only the magazine is closed to outsiders, unfortunately. Therefore, we will study ourselves and teach each other. We can do this!

Viki, you wrote everything cool, this, apparently, I do not quite enter. And in general, I apparently give up, give up and stay with my (Romina) sourdough, I'm sorry to throw it away !. ... And my "emka" works well, I've been baking rye bread on it for a long time and they don't look for good. Well, I will not have such bread as Raisin, so that it would be the biggest grief in my life. Thank you all for your participation and kind words.

[victosh]

victosh, give up nizzzz! You just can't and that's it!
Try it, what if this is YOURS? Not? Well, you will know - NOT IT and there will be nothing to regret. And as for grief in life, it’s better to let it not be at all! In general, if you dare, let me know. And about good from good, you are right

Viki, you are absolutely right, hands down, no, no, but I still put it down, at least for the summer, when I bake bread even less often than usual (Usually it's on Friday once a week). Therefore, it is not an end in itself to simply make sourdough and maintain its life, and it is irrational even for the greatest bread romancer. But I will think about it, thanks for the help

A master of sourdough, I want to grow a French sourdough, but I don't have malt and I'm unlikely to be able to find it. Can you do without it? Previously, I was also stopped by the need to maintain a fairly high temperature, but now there is a yogurt maker. And here is malt ... We only managed to find a concentrate of bread kvass, but it probably cannot be used for sourdough?
Another question about the taste of sourdough bread. How sour is it? I stopped using my first “eternal” leaven, because the bread turned out to be very sour for my taste.Yeast bread after those breads seemed just fabulous. I may have a perverse taste, but I don't like the sourness in wheat and butter bread at all. But I really miss the aroma of sourdough bread.

[Midnight lady,]

Midnight lady, Although I do not consider myself a master of leavening, I will try to answer you, using the information that I have.
Malt helps convert the starch in flour into sugar. It is this sugar that lactic acid bacteria and wild yeast feed on. In an article about leavens from Lyudmila I read how she advised replacing malt with two teaspoons of honey. By the way, honey will also play the role of a disinfectant against mold, E. coli, etc.
Although it seems to me that bread kvass concentrate can also be used.
As for the sourness in the taste of bread. If you use a "softened" slightly acidic sourdough, then there will be no sourness at all.

[Viki]

Well, take the "infected" into your "department" I matured and .... I matured .... I read up to 15 pages, not a single link, damn it, does not open, so questions .. questions ...
I stopped at French sourdough, because I do not always have kefir available, and indeed dairy products .... This is how we live some kind of "dairy-free" ... I don't want to constantly think "What to feed?" I can keep track of the leaven, because I work 5 meters from the house and every hour I always visit my kitchen. I have as much flour as you want and whatever you want. That's why the Frenchwoman is the first. which you want to "touch"
I was certainly tempted by the photographs. These are just masterpieces. If they smelled, I probably would. I was seduced faster, but decided on purely visual impressions only today.
I ask you to answer the following questions:
1. In the first posts Viki gives a scheme for mixing and feeding liquid FZ. After kneading and 3 consecutive proofs (with the addition of flour and water), we get 330g of sourdough. Then, in the logical chain, there was some kind of failure and then Viki talks about some 5g of sourdough and some water and flour for renewal and "in a day everything is ready" let's somehow highlight this failure. but? Here, after 3 proofings, I have 330g. So what? Knead on them? Share? Somehow somewhere to store? How to commit further? In a word. if possible. write down the same step by step and further manipulations with it.
2. In my family they eat a lot of bread. If suddenly they do not finish eating, then 2 dogs always help. Therefore, I bake bread every single day. Moreover, a large loaf (for 650g of flour). If I switch to a sourdough baking method, what kind of sourdough growing scheme and in what quantities can you suggest to me so that I have a fresh (a loaf is not suitable for SUCH bread!) Loaf every day? loaf? No, SUCH BREAD?
3. Is the preparation of sourdough for white bread different from sourdough for rye or rye-wheat?
4. Is it possible to regulate the acidity in bread? We all have an increased acidity of the stomach and from sour breads we all have heartburn at once. For this reason, before they ate only sliced ​​loaves, and now only their own bakery. Darnitsky bakery is impossible to eat - on the second day as poured with vinegar! With the arrival at the house of Darnitsky fromFugasca, this bread has become loved again! Because it's gray. but not sour!
5. Advise. please, the most successful recipes for beginners. Moreover, both in the oven and in the bread maker. I decided for myself that if I still stay on my feet in the evening, I will do it in the oven. and if I get completely tired in HP. My workload is "wavy"
Well, that's all for now. Teach for God's sake

Cake! Since winter I have switched to sourdough. Well, bread tastes better on it and that's it. Of 330 grams of sourdough, half or more, depending on its acidity, I put in bread, and the rest I feed to the original volume with water and flour. Maybe this is not correct, but I have the same sourdough for both wheat and wheat-rye. At first she was MK and now she seems like a Frenchwoman, but occasionally I feed her with yogurt or sour cream.

That is, you half every day and feed one part, and knead the other? Where does she live? Warm all the time? And don't you bake every day?
Another question has matured: is it possible with the help of temperature (refrigerator-room-heater) to regulate the rate and strength of the growth of the leaven? If yes. what patterns can be traced?

I don't bake every day. When not baking, she lives in the refrigerator on the door. Once every three days I take out the food, let it come up, take half of it into the bread, the rest into the refrigerator. Before the next baking, I took it out, fed it, let it come up, etc. In the warmth it comes up faster, if it lives in the refrigerator for several days, it is heated more slowly. In the summer I feed it in the evening, and in the morning I already have ready-made sourdough.

Is it possible with the help of temperature (refrigerator-room-heater) to regulate the growth rate and strength of the starter culture? If yes. what patterns can be traced?

Of course yes! In my refrigerator - 11 * The rest of the leaven (this is 20-50 g that I leave when I bake bread) I leave in the refrigerator (overnight). If I want to bake the next day, then in the morning I take it out of the refrigerator, shake it with water until it is foamy, then add flour and leave it on the table. When I come home from work in the evening, it is already ripening. Again I set aside 20-50 g from it, and for the rest I bake, etc. The amount of water and flour added depends on how much starter you need to get, but always according to the rule: starter culture = or <than water and flour and the amount of water added = the amount of flour. I hope that I have explained it more or less clearly.

[Cake]

Cake

Your email is hidden. Throw it to me in a personal, I'll send you a couple of files.

[Cake]

Cake

The basic principles of feeding and storing the starter culture are very simple:

- do not store at temperatures below + 10- + 12 * С;
- the higher the temperature, the faster the sourdough ripens;
- the sourdough must be fed with such an amount of flour, which in no case is less than the weight of the flour in the sourdough;
- the greater the ratio of the old sourdough to the new top dressing, the longer the sourdough will ripen;
- the leaven ripened when it reached its peak of growth, leveled the cap and prepared to "bend" it down to lower it.

Based on this, you can select a mode convenient for yourself.

Well, in general, it's understandable ... It's always clear. when you sit in front of the computer, but then it will be clear in the kitchen ... I prepared a glass saucepan (to observe in mass) flour-malt-water ... Another children's thermometer for swimming - it always helps me out. The heater in the bathroom turned on, something a bit chilly with us. the rain has gone and no more than 20. And now my "baby" is only warm
I went to badyazhit.

God help!

[Cake]

Cake

do you have an oven? You can grow sourdough in it with the light on.
Good luck

I do not have any questions. Knead the leaven, put it on the heater. Overheated by accident. But not much and not for long. She pulled off the hot one, just wrapped it up well so that it would cool for a long time. Already 2 times fed. now I will be for the third time. The husband suggested a place for her: under the very ceiling for a 100-liter electric water heater. there is always hot water, but due to the thermal insulation of the tank, the surface is only slightly warm, but STABLE. Plus, it is always warmer under the ceiling than on the floor and there are no drafts. Plus, the bathroom is always warm ... In short, it took root, I liked it. Bubbles, smells good. He eats and again to the ceiling. So tomorrow it will be possible to portray something. Throw something win-win and instill confidence in your abilities!

Cake! Any of your favorite breads replace only part of the liquid with sourdough

[Cake]

Cake
it means that everything is in your place, without emergency and deviations from the schedule

If you want to bake in x / n, then try Fr. leavened https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0, I have it a lifesaver when there is no time to keep an eye on the bread. There were practically no punctures. In the recipe, a small amount of yeast is present, if anything, it will hedge your starter culture.

Cake! Any of your favorite breads replace only part of the liquid with sourdough

With the leaven, not only liquid is introduced, but also flour. This must also be taken into account. In this case, we go the way of dough - we replace up to half of the flour and liquid with sourdough.

[Cake]

Cake - HOORAY!!! As promised, there is an addition to the “leavening” shelf.
But about "what to bake?" so there is nothing simpler than your favorite Raisin bread. And all why? Because with pictures.
How do you like this option?
When I started to bake it, I baked only it for two weeks.

Well that's it. Wait with photos Well, just to death I want to learn how to make such beauty !!!! And I will not eat. Like a week? I will admire

I had one piece of bread in the winter (French village by Tom Leonard) for 20 days. There were just a lot of people at that time. So it didn't even dry out.

The girls came home from work, fed the sourdough one more time and reached the "Done" point.
I put the bread maker on the "Dough" mode
360g sourdough
320g water
500g flour.
The dough was kneaded so that it was watery, the bun was practically not formed. After kneading for 1 hour and 20 minutes, it was heated. rested. Sechas, according to the recipe, added salt and butter, added 3 tablespoons of flour and half a teaspoon of yeast "for stability of the result" According to your plan, after kneading for 2 hours, proofing in a glass form in a microwave with a mug of boiling water and baking in the oven. But here's what confused me. I just nipped off a piece of dough (I have a habit of tasting the raw dough) and sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ... It is clear that the unfinished work is not shown to fools ... But is this normal? Or did I screw something up?

How much leaven did you feed and in what proportion?
The dough should not be sour. I pinch it off in its raw form for a sample.

Fed 3 times. the first time after 24 hours, then 2 times after 12.110 g of starter culture. 110g water and 110g flour. Electronic scales.

Libra is not the most important thing here. You had low proportions of food, the sourdough was apparently over-acidic.
You need to feed not by the hour, but when the leaven has reached its peak and began to fall.
To leave the leaven without feeding for 12, and even more so for 24 hours, you need to knead 1 to 50, no less.

At what temperature does the leaven live after feeding?

And what kind of recipe did you knead? There, the ratio of flour-water to almost super-moist Italian bread approached. For such a test, a very thorough kneading is needed, and not just a dough program in cotton.

Have you looked here? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9229.0

I can’t tell you more))
You can replace the dough with a ripe sourdough, and do the rest as described.

I continue to talk to myself, to think of thoughts.

It looks like you didn’t feed, but only increased the sourdough to the Done point, right? And immediately put her into action?

I had to feed it a couple of times without a load, see how it rises, how it behaves ... but it's too late ...

[Zest]

Zest, it's not too late! Just right! Look, envy, practically a twin of your loaves !!!


Based on the materials that you gave me and Vikin to the schedule in the first posts, I began to cook. I also took this recipe here (I don’t remember exactly where, but I did it not as a souvenir, but on a piece of paper. I kneaded it, fed it 3 times in 24, 12.12 hours. In the evening I came home from work, fed it again (every time I took 110g, threw out the rest In the last dressing, I mixed 120g with the same amounts of water and flour and put it on kneading (recipe above). I did not discard the rest of the leaven, but again kneaded and put it in the heat (there are 30 degrees not higher!) Look how it increased in 7 hours. Initially, it was less than half of the box. So briskly it never rose from me. Closed it and put it in the refrigerator.
The dough was kneaded liquid. But 23 minutes. then an hour of rest. then again 23 minutes. I added more flour, because it didn't even collect in a liquid bun.She poured a pinch of dry stale to calm it down (it's scary without them yet!) Spread a glass pan with sunflower oil, poured a viscous, attractive dough into it, locked it in a microwave oven with a mug of boiling water. Stood there for 2 hours. It has increased threefold. I put 260 * in the oven without a lid (I forgot). Poured water. The dough came off the walls during baking. from the bottom, with difficulty picking out. The torn crumb showed good porosity, but high moisture content. I screwed up with a bun ...
And the last thing. You definitely can't eat this bread. I ate kiwi. while she was waiting for baking. Then, after baking, I bit off a torn piece and the kiwi seemed sweet to me ... Maybe a tablespoon of soda is better in such a dough and for pancakes? In a word, wildly sour.
Girls, like she described everything in great detail ...
1. Where did you go wrong?
2. Now what to do with this jar of sourdough (how to feed, how to store, how much to put in bread?)

360 g sourdough - 180 g flour + 180 g water
subtract 180 g from the total amount of liquid, or a little less
500 flour + 180 flour in sourdough is 680 g * for 0.60 or 0.65 - that's all the liquid you need to get

Zest. Thanks for the link. I was not there, I missed it. But in vain. There is a lot that I did not know ... It seems that I am confused in terminology: where is the leaven. where is dough, where is "hungry" where is "full" It's hard ...
I found out that she needed to look for a cool place (where, if the refrigerator is cold ?!)
Everyone boasts a great scent. and my bread smelled of NOTHING. Not when baking, not afterwards ...
Another question. Vicki writes that you need to feed with whole grain or 2 varieties of flour. If they are not there, then "Everything is lost, Lelik!"?

Zest, help out! I want bread like all of you! I'm alone, like a fool. with cakes ...

4. Is it possible to regulate the acidity in bread? We all have an increased acidity of the stomach and from sour breads we all have heartburn at once.

Probably you have already been answered how to make the leaven non-acidic (to soften it often, several times a day, in large proportions), but the fact is that in leavened bread every other day
(and even earlier in the heat) the acidity rises somewhat, which may not be perceptible for the majority. Therefore, I (I also have high acidity) really like to use a piece of yesterday's dough (100-150gr) instead of sourdough, I will allow myself a quote from Vallejo's cooking
In order to bake bread, you do not need to have a mature sourdough or a pack of yeast on hand - in a piece of fermented dough the size of a walnut, there is enough strength to lift a large loaf of bread, all it takes is a little time.
And further
- replace the leaven with a fermented, according to Spanish technology, porch (though for this you have to make a small batch of the recipe, leave it to ferment at room temperature, ... that's why I transferred almost all Spanish recipes to the fermented porch system. I really like it!
Self-tested, simple, easy, no need to throw away too much and, most importantly, acidity does not increase
You can use up to 100-150g of dough, like for a bread maker, for the oven - less (just tear it off after kneading in a bread maker), and you can store it for up to 2-3 days in a bag or container in the refrigerator, and then add it as a dough to hb or in the bowl of the combine, humidity is desirable 0.6-0.65
As for a hot summer - the very thing ...