Kenwood BM450 vs Panasonic 255

my 256th is weaker, but a bunch of my friends and acquaintances followed in my footsteps: their 350s and 450s perfectly knead any dough

[fugaska]

fugaska

The construction of 256 and 450 is the same (shaft, shape and stirrer). The nominal power is really higher, but the fact that the output power is higher when mixing is far from a fact.

Yesterday my oven kneaded the dough for dumplings until it burned out, although I kneaded as many as two runs in a row, it turned out pretty dough

To clarify, the power declared by the bread machine is the sum of two capacities.
1. The power of the tena is ~ 80% of the total
2. Motor power, it is ~ 20% of the total
The second power will tell us if the oven can knead tough dough. Delonghi 125s motor power 85 W, tena 550 W.
The oven handles tough dough with ease. If the engine power is less, it may burn out.
But it also depends on the belt drive!

In Kenwood, I knead the dough, in small portions of about 300 g of flour, if necessary, then several times ... and in the VM450, as far as I know, there is a separate program for kneading dough on dumplings, so it simply has to cope with the dough)) and if you do everything according to the instructions and the motor burns out, you must safely carry it to the store for a replacement, because no brand is immune from marriage

Judging by the recipes for the dough, Ken-450 should mix at the rate of 450 g of flour (bakery).

Panasonic easily kneads the dough for 600g of flour (bakery).

I generally knead the dough in an old Kenwood bread maker in which there is no separate "dough" program, at my own peril and risk, so to speak) And I have been doing this for the 5th year already, the bread machine is working, the motor has not burned out yet))) So, in terms of reliability, I have no her pretensions. I hope that now the Kenwoods are no worse in quality than they are doing, because I also put my eyes on the VM450

You are wrong to think so, I have noticed for a long time that the technique is getting worse every year. And if my Kenwood 450 had not burned out after a month and a half of careful operation, I would not have worried about the dumplings dough ...

[IrinaVOt]

... if my kenwood 450 hadn't burned out in a month and a half
...

IrinaVOt, just a little bit out of luck, I sympathize. But everything worked out well for you and you did not orphan us in the end, staying in the Kenwood club.
These two stoves compared here are quite reliable, have built-in overload protection, see how many people read, and there are very few serious complaints.
And the progress is obvious from model to model.

Progress yes, but I doubt the reliability. Take, for example, washing machines (nothing if I digress from the topic), my mother bought Ariston 14 years ago and she still works without breakdowns, and the current models, although they are better in functionality and external data, break down very quickly. So here too, it is simply not profitable for manufacturers to produce equipment that will work for a long time. In my case, I simply had nothing to change the stove for, Panas is also not native assembly, we have all Chinese or Malaysian hp on the market now, there are no relatives, if Hitachi were still selling, I would change it for it, and so, awl for soap ...

With programming, just choose
user program 1 to 5
and write in it step by step:
1 Temperature equalization - selectable from 0 - 60 min
2 Mix 1 = select from 0 - 10 min
3 Mix 2 = select from 0 - 30 min
4 Ascent 1 = selectable from 20 - 60 min
5 Mix 3 (deboning) = 15 sec does not change and is switched on if lifting time 2 is selected greater than 0
6 Rise 2 = select from 0 - 2 h
7 Kneading 4 (deboning) = 15 sec does not change and is switched on if lifting time 3 is selected greater than 0
8 Rise 3 = choose from 0 - 2 h
9 Baking = choose from 0 - 1h 30 min
10 Heating = selectable from 0 - 60 min
And we save it in memory.

Owners of Kenwood, tell me, is it possible to get rid of deboning only by removing the mixer? Is it impossible to program it? Or I'm wrong?

Owners of Kenwood, tell me, is it possible to get rid of deboning only by removing the mixer? Is it impossible to program it? Or I'm wrong?

You are not mistaken.

Well, or if you set the second and third rise to 0. It is not convenient, in fact, it turns out a maximum rise of 1 hour, for baking rye, it is normal, but for baking sourdough bread it will not work.

Somehow the answer does not take root here, I am writing not for the first time that two 15-second deboning, in Kenwood-450, practically have no effect on the 5-hour rise of the dough, and the plus in leveling the crumb porosity, especially at the bottom of the mold, is obvious.
Deboning of the dough during its rise is performed by other HPs, Panasonic in particular, is no exception.
There is no mention of boning in Panasonic's instructions and there are no questions about her and she lives there happily.

[Vanya28]

Somehow the answer does not take root here, I am writing not for the first time that two 15-second boning, in Kenwood-450, practically have no effect on the 5-hour rise of the dough, and the plus in leveling the crumb porosity, especially at the bottom of the mold, is obvious.
Deboning of the dough during its rise is performed by other HPs, Panasonic in particular, is no exception. There is no mention of this in the Panasonic instructions and there are no questions.

Vanya28, you say this so convincingly that there is nothing left but to check it in practice! Unfortunately, I cannot do this yet, but the owners of the Kenwoods can very much even confirm or deny this.
Vanya28, what kind of stove do you have?

Well, or if you set the second and third rise to 0. It is not convenient, in fact, it turns out a maximum rise of 1 hour, for baking rye, it is normal, but for baking sourdough bread it will not work.

I also think sourdough bread needs a long, continuous rise, at least that's what many say.

I am writing, for those who want this, convincingly or not, it is not for me to decide.
Believe it or not is a personal matter.
And yet, as they say - blessed is he who believes.

I would like to thank all the participants in this topic, thank you for helping me to join the society of grain growers and make my subjective choice with my opinions. I bought my wife a 450th Kenwood, which we don't regret a bit. After the first breads, the relatives definitely wanted to buy HP too
I can't say which is better - Kenwood or Panasonic, but I'm happy with my choice. I bought in Kiev through an online store immediately with scales. There were no recipes inside the Russian / Ukrainian book, but I was ready for this. I downloaded the recipe book from the Ukrainian Kenwood site. In terms of information content, it turned out to be much better than those embedded in other languages. If someone needs more detailed info about what and how - write in private, because I don't want my post to seem like an advertisement.

Here are the first results

Brioche bun


Egg bread:


PS: if I wrote a review in the wrong topic, then correct, pl, this is still my first post

Hello, forum users, this is my first post!
In the summer, a capillary of Panasonic 255, but when I saw a Kenwood BM450 in the store, I realized that I was in a hurry ... and bought a second stove, hoping to sell one of them later. Decided long and painfully, but, nevertheless, Panasonic sold it today. For those who are interested in this topic, I offer my opinion of the "user" (comparison):

1. Appearance.
Kenwood BM450 is beyond competition here, that's why I bought it. Another plus: the top cover is flat, that is, you can put something on it when the oven is not in operation (I have a beautiful electronic scale on top)

2. The quality of cooking.
I did not notice much difference, except that the Kenwood BM450 produces lower baked goods, but the taste does not suffer at all - I tried both simple rye, and custard, and white of different types. By the way, there is no difference in the order of the ingredients, either - I tried both of them this way and that - the result is exactly the same.

3. Noise level.
When the Panasonic 255 is working, you have to turn off the TV sound in order to understand whether it works or not. And when Kenwood BM450 works, on the contrary, you have to make the sound louder - otherwise you won't hear speech.

4. Dispenser.
The Panasonic 255 is more convenient - no need to remove it for bookmarking - it is already built-in. In addition, when it is triggered, the "buzzer" turns on three times for a few seconds, which is not welcome at night.

5. Backlight.
Panasonic 255 does not have it, you have to open it often, which is not very good for maintaining the temperature.

6. Management.
The Panasonic 255 is somehow easier, as for an old grandmother, but with Kenwood I constantly forget where to press. Although the Kenwood touch controls are pins.

7. Kneading.
Panasonic 255 kneads more cunningly: not as long as Kenwood, but at a higher speed, which ensures that the bun, flying from corner to corner, removes all the remains from the walls, down to the last "speck of dust".

8. Baking.
At the same time, Kenwood almost does not heat up, and it is impossible to let children close to Panasonic 255. One more thing: the whole baking process in Panasonic 255 takes half an hour longer, which means that the body loses another half a liter of saliva.

The bottom line.
If the Panasonic 255 had a better design, I would undoubtedly have left it ... But, given that the results of baking all sorts of bread in Kenwood BM450 I am quite, quite satisfied (there is something to compare, or rather, until today it was with than), then when choosing between these two models, I advise you to take a closer look at which stove is looking at you. In short, the choice is still yours.

PS. I hope that my opinion will help someone. (And it's a pity for Panasonic anyway ...

Sincerely. Paul.

[sonoio]

sonoio 4. Dispenser.
The Panasonic 255 is more convenient - no need to remove it for bookmarking - it is already built-in. In addition, when it is triggered, the "buzzer" turns on three times for a few seconds, which is not welcome at night.
You got it wrong, when the dispenser is triggered, it does NOT beep !!!! No need for her to squeak Only you can hear the trigger clicks
About the design. Very controversial. For example, I don't like the square-angular Kenwood, and this applies ONLY to the design !!! At Kenwood, the design has been unchanged for several models, 250-350-450. Panasonic has radically redesigned the SD253 or SD254 / 255 design, this is a completely different concept.
PS This is the concept of Panasonic, from year to year to change the design not only external but also internal. In good times for the company, this happened every year.

A useful and correct comparison.
It will greatly help the hesitant.
Kenwood450 also has a programming mode, which is sometimes not superfluous.
Otherwise, both stoves are certainly good.

Interested in the question of choosing between these two HPs.
From the post, sonoio realized for herself that: if Panasonic had -1) a backlit window; 2) non-heating body; 3) the ability to program - Panasonic is the best HP.
I can forgive the first two points (I've already admired the kolobok, but in Mula, for example, you still need to open the lid - I can't see anything through the window).
There remains point 3 - is programming necessary there?
Panas users, do you need programming in HP? Answer please.

[sonoio]

So I racked my brains over the choice ...

sonoio, here I read your post and once again confirmed my decision!
It seems that you yourself are looking for an excuse.
Only it is not clear why Kenwood bribed you? Is it just design?
You say bread is the same in quality, but if it is different in height, then it must also be different in some way. Probably, here you are not saying something ...

And I'm sorry for Panasonic anyway ...

You see! It was necessary to leave two stoves, for at least another half-year / year!

Don't regret anything! Learn to love your new assistant now!

PySy. Eh, your buyer is lucky, I suppose they sold it for half the price, almost a new HP! Wish it was me!

There remains point 3 - is programming necessary there?
Panas users, do you need programming in HP? Answer please.

Although, for now, I'm not a Panas user, but I want to answer as a user of another programmable HP.
Such a programming condition as Kenwood offers us, I personally, it is not necessary, because for 1, 5 years of operation, an immediate change was more in demand already working programs, i.e. changing stages along the way, and not writing new / your own programs. As I understand it, Kenwood is not real.

[Rye custard bread]

Why and how programming is needed, how to change an existing program using programming, it is better not to guess or guess, but to read.
For example here:

Rye custard bread,

If that doesn't seem like enough, read the sections on sourdough bread baking.
After reading and scratching "Turnip" it will be easier to make a choice between these two models.

[Vanya28]

Why and how programming is needed, how to change an existing program using programming, it is better not to guess or guess, but to read.

After reading and scratching "Turnip" it will be easier to make a choice between these two models.

Vanya28, if you read all this, then anyone can comb the "turnip" to a hole, but the choice is never made.
I always believed that forums exist to significantly save time from meaningless re-reading of deductive material, where people with experience in the right direction give a clear and intelligible answer.
And your answer is, to put it mildly, evasive. Everyone knows how to read, but not everyone can answer to the "point". I know my Delongue very well and it is not difficult for me to answer twelve times to the same answer, so I ask people who know Kenwood 450, about their capabilities.

And I made my choice a long time ago, which is what I wish for you!

Nobody writes about you, from your Delongey-125c, which you know perfectly well, having not learned how to program it by changing the existing programs (from your own words in the post above).
You can write which stove is the best, but I don’t know that one.
There are pluses, there are minuses to each. I personally write about this. helping to make the right choice,

[Vanya28]

Vanya28, we will not enter into polemics, but I ask you not to distort my words. Why did you decide about my non-programming ability?
I realized that the instructions for Kenwood did not say anything about changing an already working program, but they said about the possibility of writing down an invented one.
Even if you write your program into memory, BUT something goes wrong in your process, you cannot correct it right away, lengthening or shortening the processes (kneading / proofing) without interrupting the program.

What kind of stove do you use yourself?

[sonoio]

sonoio 4. Dispenser.
The Panasonic 255 is more convenient - no need to remove it for bookmarking - it is already built-in. In addition, when it is triggered, the "buzzer" turns on three times for a few seconds, which is not welcome at night.
You got it wrong, when the dispenser is triggered, it does NOT beep !!!! Not why.

Sorry, I confused it, I meant Kenwood BM450 - it squeaks, but they say that it can be reprogrammed. By the way, on this occasion: I think that you can, of course, compose the program yourself, but you can write a good program, IMHO, only after 10 failures (at least) - there are too many programming opportunities. For example, in Kenwood BM450 I baked rye brewed according to the "main" program (No. 1) - the result is no worse than Panasonic.

And I sold Panasonic, because the crisis, however, ... last month there were 3 working days. By the way, I bought for 5999, and sold for 5000 to a good friend ...

PS. In Kenwood BM450 14 programs are already included, why else have their own? No, if the programs I need appear on the forum, then I will use them (someday) ...

Who programmed Borodino bread, exactly programmed it in VM450? Share your impressions !!!

Who programmed Borodino bread, exactly programmed it in VM450? Share your impressions !!!

The question is what?
Do you need a recipe or customization?
The main one is GOST, and so,
there are several recipes with the taste of Borodinsky.

The question is in the settings: is it possible to program Borodino bread in the VM450? and which? gostovsky or any of its variants?

The question is in the settings: is it possible to program Borodino bread in the VM450? and which? gostovsky or any of its variants?

Of course, you can program even 5 of any recipes that you like and it is always easy to make changes to the recipes for local conditions, by increasing something in them or, on the contrary, decreasing.

I also decide on the model. Question: and if you just knead the dough (yeast non-dough), which of the above HP will prepare a larger volume?

Good day! After reading the thread, I chose Panasonic.I would like to clarify how the Panasonic SD-255 W differs from the Panasonic SD-255WTS?

Kenwood BM450 up to 1000 grams
Panasonic 255 to 1250 grams

Vanya, and I was already thinking, where are we (Ukraine) prices are ...
Then I realized that it was grams (g).

[Fedorovich]

Good day! After reading the thread, I chose Panasonic. I would like to clarify how the Panasonic SD-255 W differs from the Panasonic SD-255WTS?

Fedorovich, somewhere there was a Temka about these letters, but they did not find out anything, as far as I remember. Most likely nothing. The package is the same.

[which makes the larger test volume?]

Kenwood BM450 up to 1000 grams
Panasonic 255 to 1250 grams

This is the maximum baked amount - stated. But Panas, for example, has recipes focused on the yield of 900 g of bread.
And if you use HP only for kneading dough, then baking in the oven, then which makes the larger test volume? Or maybe Moulinex OW5004 or OW5003 makes more volume? Can these Moulinex models be compared with those already discussed here?

[zalina74]

zalina74 For flour, Panasonic is designed for 600g. Ask about Moulinex here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=61.0
PS: For a large volume, it is better to buy a kneader!

Zy-zy. I don't want a dough mixer, but a bread maker! If Panasonic programmed, I would not hesitate for a second. And so, I am tormented by a choice. Thanks to everyone who wishes to leave a review. Tell me, is the window very required? Do you need to follow the cooking process? I plan to use the timer more often and the oven in automatic mode. And by the way, when using the timer, undissolved lumps do not form?

About the weight of the flour mixture: with an engine of 85 W, ready-made bread-1500 (max), wholemeal flour 860 g! This is Delonghi 125s.
In addition to engine power, it is important which gearbox! You can have a 100 W motor, and not pull 700 grams of flour.

About the weight of the flour mix: the finished bread is 1500 (max), This is Delonghi 125s.

This oven says that the maximum amount of baked bread is 1250 g, not 1500. Are you not mistaken?

As written in the instructions-1.500 is the maximum weight (it is indicated in brackets after 1.250). From practice I know that more weight from the nominal (in this case 1.250) is obtained from flour with reduced gluten. It is denser, and much more.
But still this is the maximum weight and the engine is working at the limit. Yes, and I like the oven with an average weight of 1 kg.

Thanks for the answer. Does the spatula come out of the bread easily after baking? I read that they get stuck in Moulinex 5004.

Kenwood BM450 up to 1000 grams
Panasonic 255 to 1250 grams

It is so, but not so.
In Kenwood, the recipes contain flour up to 680 grams, and in Panasonic, up to 600 grams. on programs with maximum load. And in recipes, for example, Kulich from Elena Bo, the total weight of the ingredients being mixed reaches 1.2-1.3 kg. and the stoves do equally well.

Owners of Panas 255 tell me: how is the heating element held inside - on a fully ceramic holder with a screw (as in the Panas 253 model) or, like in Kenwood 450 - a small square ceramic piece with a metal bracket?

It's just that in my 253 this ceramics cracked in half and the heating bracket is now loose! And I was not lucky with the dispensary - it can be seen from the temperature of the spinach that the dispenser opens cracked. Of course, I did it so that it would close and not be open, but now the dispenser function is missing in my model! But in Kenwood 450, of course, they thought it up correctly - you can simply remove it and not subject it to temperature all the time if you do not use it. I turned to the service, but they said that the entire top-cover should be bought so that one spinning could only be changed !!!! And tse still pennies! It's easier to buy a new one!

Somehow the second time to step on a rake is not ho.
I have a problem between P255 and K450 - I'm just terrified .....

[ZHIRULKA]

Somehow the second time to step on a rake is not ho.
I have a problem between P253 and K450 - I'm just terrified ...

ZHIRULKA
So don't step on, buy a P-254 without a dispenser at all, you will add rye on a signal, you can bake without a special program, buy a comb and that's it.

[lana7386]

lana7386, and 255 more programs and a newer model, and the presence of a dispenser sometimes does not hurt either (especially if it was and I used it, so if I didn't have it initially, then I wouldn't want to have it)!

[lana7386]

lana7386, and 255 more programs and a newer model, and the presence of a dispenser sometimes does not hurt either (especially if it was and I used it, so if I didn't have it initially, then I wouldn't want to have it)!

One to one apart from Rye Bread! We even have one instruction for two models