Admin
INTRODUCTION to the topic.

Initially, I started to study yogurt leaven, which you can lament about in this thread:

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

2. A day has passed, the leaven must be FEEDED A SECOND TIME.
It is advisable to feed the sourdough at the same time, I did it in the evening, at about 18-00.
For top dressing we again use aged kefir (yogurt, etc.), in a proportion of about 100-120 ml. kefir and a couple of scoops of rye flour, or enough flour to again get the dough "like pancakes."
I didn’t have yogurt or yogurt (it just so happened, I forgot to buy it), but I used CURD WHEY, which remained after making the cottage cheese. I usually freeze this whey in the freezer for baking bread. So I used the serum from the freezer, right cold (just thawed). What came of this, you will see further.
Next, we take care of the leaven as described in the first paragraph.
I repeat the paragraph “Now the leaven must be left on the table for ripening. The leaven can be at rest, without any visible movement, but gradually it will be noticeable that the leaven is increasing in volume. If the starter culture increases in volume, it must be mixed; this can be done 2-3 times a day. At the same time, you will see how gradually the dough becomes elastic and, when stirred, resists and bubbles inside like yeast dough. At night I put the dough in the refrigerator, during the day I put it on the table again. "

3. Another day has passed (and in total it has already been the 2nd day). Again, you need to FEED the starter THREE TIME.
We take out the leaven either from the refrigerator (or from the table). I have in the photo the leaven from the refrigerator - the time is 18-00 (remember this time).

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Now we will precipitate, mix the leaven. Notice how it bounces under the fork.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

We feed in the same way as for the first time - I repeat the text from point 2, - “For feeding we again use aged kefir (yogurt, etc.), in a proportion of about 100-120 ml. kefir and a couple of scoops of rye flour, or enough flour to again get the dough "like pancakes."
Now I have deliberately used curd whey instead of kefir. Compare the photo where we just kneaded the leaven (see point 1) and the photo of the precipitated leaven now, how much the leaven has increased in volume.
We look at the photo of the starter culture at 20-00, i.e. 2 hours after the 2nd feeding - is the growth of the starter impressive?

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

We look at the photo of the sourdough at 21-00, i.e. 3 hours after feeding. Good yeast smell appeared.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Stirred, precipitated the leaven, put the pan in a large plastic. package (out of harm's way, knowing the reactivity of the leaven), and put it in the refrigerator for storage and in order to reduce the too rapid rise of the leaven. After feeding, the sourdough must be kept for a day so that it ripens and ferments, since the sourdough is a fermented dough.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

4. On the third day at 12-00 I take the leaven out of the refrigerator, that is, 18 hours after the last feeding, see how much it has risen. even in the refrigerator.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Has precipitated the leaven, and now you can compare how much the leaven has increased in volume compared to the original leaven in step 1. Pay attention to this and how elastically the leaven reacts to your attempts to stir it. Springy dough, loose inside, with a pancake-like structure. It is easy for such a dough to rise by itself and to raise the dough that is kneaded on bread.

Now you can use the sourdough to make dough for baking bread, it makes no sense to stand it longer, it can simply peroxide (ferment) and not rise in the bread.
We put a little sourdough in a clean jar for further use and the next feeding, close the lid and put it in the refrigerator for storage. It is advisable to keep the kefir starter in the refrigerator for 5-10 days (no more), and then feed it from the very beginning 3 times, repeating all operations from 1 to 4 described above.
I would like to remind you that all this action took place in a saucepan with a volume of two liters.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

The kefir starter culture gains strength and good activity after 5-7 feeding cycles (5-7 times for three days with a rest break for 5-10 days).

I ended up with 3 measuring cups of the finished starter culture for later use.

What will happen next with the leaven ...

Photo in a day.

Here is a photo of the leaven left for future feeding, it rose twice in a day, although it stood in the refrigerator on the coldest shelf.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Photo after 5 days.

Now the leaven looks like this.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

It's time to feed, with its appearance the leaven shows that it has already fermented and wants to eat more. I set the serum to thaw, I will feed it tomorrow.
In the future, this text may be amended and supplemented.

Mueslik
AdminNuuuu sooo clearly! I saved the page for myself, thanks!
3ay4ik
thank you very much. otherwise I read and read and everything somehow passed me by. I did it once and this action did not impress me, but now it is a completely different matter ....; D impressed
Alexandra
Admin,

Wonderful master class!

Especially valuable for me is that it is possible to make a leaven on whey, and almost stronger than on kefir. So far, kefir is good for me, but after a while I will move on to the intensive stage of sybarism - it will be necessary to separate proteins from carbohydrates, and whey is just carbohydrates.
Admin

It also seemed to me that the sourdough rises better on whey, it immediately became noticeable. It seems the need made it apply, but here's how it happened.
I rushed into the refrigerator - there was no kefir, but there was nothing to feed. I remembered that in the freezer the whey after the curd is frozen. I just defrosted it so that I could pour a little and poured it into a saucepan even very cold. The rest of the whey remained thawed further.

And what is the effect? ​​It can be seen from the photographs, I specially allocated time

I keep the serum in the freezer all the time, a good thing.
taty
Very good Admin tutorial.
You're just lovely - thanks for the new old way ...
And what is rye flour. not for nothing was Russian bread so famous
I tried the leaven from Lyudmila rzh flour + water also went well.
there is no such pronounced acidity as on kefir.
on whey - how softer will the taste be?
Admin
Quote: taty


on whey - how softer will the taste be?

Yes, I don't feel sourness in bread at all, maybe I'm used to it already. And besides, I always add a mixture of bread spices to the dough, maybe it interrupts.
And without spices, the taste of bread is not like rye bread.
Admin

For those interested in leaven, please take a look at the behavior of the leaven after 5 days. Go up to the first post.
Caprice
I tried to make it with kefir, kept a glass of kefir warm for two days. But he did not "grow old" or bubble up. I decided to do it as it is. Something rises weakly ...
Admin
Quote: Caprice

I tried to make it with kefir, kept a glass of kefir warm for two days. But he did not "grow old" or bubble up. I decided to do it as it is. Something rises weakly ...

Try to buy any kefir "House in the village", I usually take 2.5 or 3.2 and hold it on the table for up to 5 days. Must ferment. I keep it until the liquid peels off at the bottom and the moment when it starts to mold. If this happens, remove the top layer, this is just the top, and use the rest.

Weakly and hard the leaven rises the first day, it really seems that it is necessary to throw it away. After the second feeding, it rises much more actively. And pay attention to the photo - the leaven does not bubble up actively, does not boil - it quietly and calmly rises with an even cap without visible movements.But when you stir it, you can see bubbles inside, and what an elastic sponge dough is obtained, everything is elastic, and the smell of yeast appears gradually, especially after the last proofing.
taty
Admin. Tell the sourdough dough comes out of the bucket
and before baking 5 minutes, sit around the edges or what to do
Admin
Quote: taty

Admin. Tell the sourdough dough comes out of the bucket
and before baking 5 minutes, sit around the edges or what to do

There may be several options.

Nothing to do. In five minutes, it may not run away at all, unless it rests on the roof.

If possible, switch to baking mode ahead of time.

Remove the bread from the bucket, form a loaf and bake in the oven.

If you besiege, then it takes time for additional. proofing, and it will no longer be because there are 5 minutes left before baking. If upsetting, then the oven is in the oven.
How - look here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...98.0
taty
Thank you . it got so bad that it was necessary to overhaul
He'll have to go up again ...
The leaven got older and stronger. it is seen
This is my first time like this. I usually take a little flour
Admin
Quote: taty

Thank you . it got so bad that it was necessary to overhaul
He'll have to go up again ...
The leaven got older and stronger. it is seen
This is my first time like this. I usually take a little flour

I missed another option - it was possible not to pull it out of the bucket. and wrap it completely with foil and so put it in the oven to bake. Thanks for the idea to Alexandra.
Admin

. Preparation of LIQUID lactic acid starter culture in photos

Starting with this message, I begin another master class on feeding kefir sourdough, starting from the first day until baking bread, for clarity. The reason was your questions and lamentations "it does not work".
kefir sourdough has long ceased to be "kefir", we already put it on kefir, and curd whey, and yogurt, it remains to try it on cottage cheese.
Therefore, apparently the kefir starter culture needs to be renamed to "Lactic acid starter culture" or MKZakvasku , to be short.

I will give information daily.

THE FIRST DAY.

At 12 o'clock I took out the leaven from the refrigerator, there were only 1/2 of a mayonnaise jar.
I poured the starter culture into a 1 liter pot for room.
Added to it 100 milliliters of curd whey and 100 milliliters of rye flour.
That is, I poured flour into a measuring cup to the 100 ml mark, slightly shaken it.

Today i do liquid MKZ leaven on curd whey (also old), for which she kept the serum in the refrigerator for 2 weeks. I also took the cold serum from the refrigerator and did not preheat it.

Here's what I have in four hours.

🔗

It is useful to periodically saturate MKZ leaven with air, for which you can periodically whisk it with a whisk (and not be afraid to do it strongly), and also keep the lid of the pan slightly open.
A saucepan with MKZ leaven is on my stove, it is important that there is no draft, and the temperature is sufficient at room temperature.

Everything, until next time. Let's create a series together.
Admin

DAY ONE 22-00

Here is the state of MKZ leaven at 22-00. Pay attention to the surface of the leaven - such mounds-bumps on the surface. This suggests that the leaven "ate" everything that it was fed with today and wants to eat more. If you don't feed it again now, it will fall off completely and calm down. But I will not feed until tomorrow, let him "work up" his appetite until morning, and then we will look at her condition.

🔗

I mixed the sourdough with the jelly again and put it in the refrigerator overnight.

🔗

Till tomorrow!

Something is quiet, and no questions are heard, I am not interested in telling
Boo Boo
if there are no questions, then everything is interesting and the main thing is clear.
You write, we are watching ........ quietly ........ so as not to frighten the starving leaven.
Admin

SECOND DAY

TIME 6-00

Good morning leaven! The leaven spent the night in the refrigerator at T = 0 *.

🔗

Sourdough is unhappy with such a dietary life, which it shows with its appearance. I really want to eat.From above it is quiet - inside like a yeast dough, all in bubbles and springy when whipped with a jolly.

I made another top dressing, just like the last time I added to it a fresh portion of 100 milliliters of curd whey and 100 milliliters of rye flour.
That is, I poured flour into a measuring cup to the 100 ml mark, slightly shaken it.
Stirred very well with merry (not embarrassed in movements), which added a good portion of oxygen to the leaven.
She left the vessel with the sourdough on the table, covered it with a towel so that the air could penetrate, but the crust did not wind on top. The room temperature is within 20-22 *.
Here is the appearance of the starter after breakfast. You see how hungry she was, immediately seethed, bubbles in the form of small volcanoes began to appear on the surface, they appear and immediately go out, new ones appear in their place.

🔗

TIME 7-30.

It took 1-30 time after breakfast.

🔗

We are doing well, we are quite happy with breakfast, we eat actively, we feel quite normal, the smell is normal, it smells like applesauce, and the smell of yeast appears.
Today I need to leave for a long time, so I put the leaven in the refrigerator, since there is no one to keep an eye on it, and in the refrigerator at T = 0 * it will not bubble so actively, its movement will slow down. In front of the refrigerator, I once again strongly stirred the leaven with a whisk. The leaven will spend the whole day in the refrigerator, all alone.

TIME 18-00 - evening.

Good evening! I endure the leaven from confinement to freedom and warmth. Let me remind you that the leaven spent almost 12 hours in the refrigerator at T = 0 * and looks pretty decent and feels pretty good.

🔗

This is how the sourdough looks like immediately "after imprisonment" and after I whipped it well with a whisk. Notice how the leaven bubbles. The number of volcano bubbles has increased markedly, inside it is also very bubbly and elastic, like yeast dough. In consistency, the leaven is average between pancake dough and pancake dough. Let me remind you what I do today "Liquid leaven".


To be continued...
Admin

SECOND DAY

TIME 24-00

This is the state of leaven at night.

🔗

See how the surface of the leaven has gone bumps and bumps. The sourdough ate everything in the morning and now "burns out", asks for more food. But, I will feed the leaven in the morning, let my appetite work up overnight.

🔗

And here I mixed the sourdough with a jolly, and it immediately showed itself from the inside, again the volcano bubbles explode and very abundantly. The leaven has increased much in volume, the dough is springy, the smell of yeast.

For today, everyone, went to retirement in the refrigerator, so as not to burn out all night.

Until tomorrow everyone!
Admin
DAY THREE

TIME 9-00

Good morning sourdough! We take out from the refrigerator. The leaven wants to eat, and shows dissatisfaction with the cold and hunger, and its appearance is still very calm - only from above.

🔗

Made another top dressing, like last time added to it a fresh portion of 100 milliliters of curd whey and 100 milliliters of rye flour.
That is, I poured flour into a measuring cup to the 100 ml mark, slightly shaken it. Stirred very well with merry (not embarrassed in movements), which added a good portion of oxygen to the leaven.
She left the vessel with the sourdough on the table, covered it with a towel so that the air could penetrate, but the crust did not wind on top. The room temperature is within 20-22 *.

🔗

TIME 19-30

The state of the leaven at this time. The sourdough rose very well and high.
This is a top view.

🔗

And watch the sourdough bubbles inside - side view.

🔗

Pay attention to the appearance of the starter culture from above, what a wave-bumpy surface of the foam of a dirty look.
The leaven will no longer rise, but on the contrary will begin to fade, and after that it will retire. For the next 12-14 hours, it is advisable to use this starter while it has a lifting force. There is no need to re-feed the sourdough, you need rest.

Beat the starter well again with a broom, once again saturate with oxygen.The texture of the sourdough dough is springy like a yeast dough and has a distinctly yeast odor (yeast dough smell).

Now, again, pour part of the starter into a mayonnaise jar (about 0.5 jars), close the lid, and send it to rest in the refrigerator until the next feeding in a week.

The resulting sourdough can be used for baking bread and other products.
I ended up with 2 measuring cups (250 ml each) of lactic acid starter culture.

That's all.
We spent 3 days with you, observing how the leaven develops under different temperature conditions.
I specially made so many photographs of the leaven, so much I took care of it myself, as I did not care before.
I wish everyone to learn how to grow their own sourdough and bake delicious bread on it.
You can view the baking of wheat-rye bread based on lactic acid sourdough, which I grew and fed in this topic, at
Wheat-rye shaped bread with kefir sourdough

Hope
Thanks to Admin, everything is very clear and detailed. I once tried to make a sourdough, but nothing came of it. And after such a photo lesson, those who are not too lazy to engage in sourdough will succeed.
Admin

APPLICATION OF SQUARE IN THE PRODUCTION OF GRAIN BREAD

L. Kozubaeva, S. Koneva
"Bread products"

There are several known methods for the production of grain bread. Some of them provide for preliminary hulling of grain before soaking and grinding. However, it is in the shells and the embryo removed during peeling that the largest amount of vitamins and mineral elements is contained. We must not forget about dietary fiber (fiber), which are contained in the shell and are vital for humans.

We have studied the possibility of making bread from whole unhulled wheat grain. The preparation of such bread involves preliminary moistening of the grain in order to swell and soften the shells. When moistening, including sequential soaking of the grain and keeping it in air, the grain germinates.

Sprouted grain, in comparison with unsprouted grain, contains significantly more vitamins (especially groups B and E), macro- and microelements in an easily digestible form. Due to the presence of active proteolytic enzymes in the germinated grain, the digestibility of proteins is improved. The starch in the sprouted grains is partially converted to malted sugar, which makes it easier to digest.

However, grain germination leads to an increase in its autolytic activity, while the activity of amylolytic and proteolytic enzymes increases. The action of proteolytic enzymes during the preparation of the dough leads to its liquefaction and relaxation, and under the action of amylolytic enzymes, especially (x-amylase, starch is broken down with the formation of dextrins, resulting in bread with a sticky) crumbling crumb.

The most effective way to improve the quality of bread when using flour from sprouted wheat grain is to increase the acidity of the dough. This can be achieved by using ferments, the addition of which reduces the activity of proteinase in the dough, and also lowers the temperature of inactivation (x-amylase when baking bread.

We have studied the production of grain bread using thick starter cultures. Starter cultures were prepared on moistened dispersed wheat grain. In the first phase of the exploration cycle, a nutrient mixture was prepared, consisting of dispersed wheat grains and water, into which pressed yeast was introduced. After that, the resulting nutrient medium was left for 4 h for fermentation at a temperature of 29-30 ° C. At the end of fermentation, the leaven had an acidity of 3.5 degrees, a moisture content of 52% and a lifting force of 5 minutes.

In the second phase of the exploration cycle, the nutrient mixture provided by the recipe was added to the available amount of starter culture. After 4 hours of fermentation at a temperature of 29-30 C, the leaven had a moisture content of 52-53%, an acidity of 5-6 degrees and a lifting force of 10 minutes.This acidity of the sourdough is quite sufficient to reduce the activity of proteinase and alpha-amylase and obtain good quality cereal bread.

The resulting starter culture was used to prepare the dough. Grain bread dough was made from 85% dispersed wheat grain, 15% flour and other traditional raw materials. The leaven was added to the dough in an amount of 10, 20, 30, 40% by weight of dispersed grain. The dough fermented at a temperature of 30-32 ° C. After fermentation, the finished dough was divided into pieces weighing 300 g, which were given an oblong-oval shape with a smooth surface. Proofing of dough pieces was carried out in a proofing cabinet with a temperature of 35 ° C and a relative humidity of 75-80%. The end of the proofing was determined organoleptically by the state of the dough piece. Bread was baked in an electric oven at a temperature of 200 ° C for 40 minutes.

The amount of sourdough added when kneading the dough had a great influence on the performance of the technological process and the quality of the bread. The dough, which did not contain sourdough, was strongly thinned during fermentation, and at the end of fermentation it had the lowest final acidity, equal to 2.5 degrees. As the amount of leaven increased, the dough accumulated acidity faster. The dough with the addition of 40% sourdough had the highest final acidity and was 3.7 degrees. During fermentation, the leavened dough thinned less than the non-leavened dough.

The duration of fermentation of the dough decreased with an increase in the amount of leaven introduced into the dough and ranged from 90 to 30 minutes, the duration of proofing was reduced from 60 to 30 minutes.

The quality of the bread was studied 12-14 hours after baking. Bread prepared without adding sourdough had the lowest specific volume - 96.2 cm3 / 100 g, porosity was 47%. On the surface of the bread, particles of shells were visible, the color of the crust of the bread was grayish-brown, the porosity was insufficiently developed, the crumb was not elastic. The bread tasted bland.

With an increase in the amount of sourdough added to the dough, the quality of the bread improved: the specific volume of the bread increased, the porosity became more uniform and developed, the acidity of the bread increased. The best was whole grain bread with 30% sourdough. The specific volume index of this bread was of the greatest importance and amounted to 224.8 cm3 / 100 g, porosity - 57%, and acidity - 3.5 °. The bread had a well developed, uniform, medium porosity, baked, elastic crumb, sweet and sour taste with a pronounced aroma.

Thus, the addition of even a small amount of thick sourdough leads to an improvement in the quality of grain bread made from whole unhulled wheat grains: the crumb becomes non-creasing, more elastic, the porosity is more developed and uniform, the bread acquires a peculiar pronounced taste and aroma. In addition, the use of starter cultures significantly reduces the preparation time for dough and bread.

Admin

CHEMICAL PART OF DOUGH FORMATION

(BAKERY MANUAL. 1913)

All bread products are divided into three types: 1) simple bread 2) rich and 3) confectionery, according to which bread production is also being modified. The purpose of this guide is to focus on the production of plain bread.

Before considering all the operations of grain production, such as making dough, forming loaves, baking bread, etc. (the practical part of it), it is necessary to get acquainted with its theory, i.e., with chemical, physical and biological processes, occurring in the bread during these operations.

As already mentioned in the first part of this book, the dough, before being placed in the oven, is subjected to loosening after kneading, which can be done either by means of yeast or by chemical means, by means of baking powders, or finally by physical means by saturating the dough under pressure with carbon dioxide.With the chemical method (chemical) reaction occurs between the constituent parts of baking powders, flour does not participate in this process. Its loosening is accomplished exclusively by the physical action of the carbonic acid formed in statu nascendi.

The physical method consists exclusively of the physical action of carbon dioxide released under pressure from the dough, which is what it loosens. A completely different thing happens in the first method (the most common), which loosens by fermentation of yeast fungi. Very complex physicochemical and biological processes take place here, caused by the action of little yet studied microorganisms of semi-plant origin, the so-called yeast fungi, which are described in detail in the first part.

But in view of the importance of this process for baking, we will briefly review it again according to the latest investigations published only a few months ago (NOTE: this is in 1912)

During fermentation, carbonic acid is released, which is required by the baker to loosen the dough. The fermentation process is caused by yeasts, which are described in detail in the first part. Yeast fungus is a lower organism consisting of only one cell, about 0.01 millimeters in size. Pasteur considered the yeast fungus as an animal organism that has the ability to breathe, feed and multiply infinitely with such a rapidity that one yeast cell, under favorable conditions, can produce a million cells after 24 hours.

So from the action of the enzymes contained in the flour itself (diastase and cerealin), the starch, being sugared, turns into dextrin, which, together with gum, sugar and albumin, dissolves in the water contained in the dough. At the same time, the dissolved proteins turn into peptones, which impregnate the gluten, which, swelling, binds everything into a common mass.

Then the action of other enzymes contained in the yeast fungus (diastasis, cimaz, etc.) is removed, the decomposition of sugary substances into carbonic acid and alcohol begins (alcoholic fermentation). But since, in addition to (alcohol) yeast fungus, other fungi (from the air or sourdough) get into the dough, the chemical process is not limited to this, but oxidative reactions begin, in which alcohol, being oxidized, turns into acetic acid, sugar into lactic acid, starch in oil and the like.

The resulting acids, together with alcohol, act as a dissolving agent on gluten and pigment, which causes the dough to darken (in rye bread it reaches black).

Each yeast cell formed a colony of asco-spores. Thus, instead of individual cells, obtaining whole colonies of yeast fungi, he was able, by means of calculations, to determine the approximate amount of yeast fungi contained in the originally taken substance. Thus, he calculated that one gram of pressed yeast consumed by Parisian bakers contains from 5 to 6,000,000,000 live yeast cells. Further research showed that the dough after the end of fermentation contains only 5 to 600,000 of them. This amount of yeast grows rapidly in the old dough, which is why it is used in the form of a leaven that replaces the pressed yeast.

So, for example, studies have shown that in one gram of old dough after 4, 6 and 8 days, the number of cells reaches 200,000, 2,000,000 and 17 million. moreover, the yeast fungi increase due to starch. Indeed, after 24 hours in the old dough already from 0.7% to 1.9%, starch turns into sugar. But it must be borne in mind that for the benefit of the yeast fungi should not be allowed to ferment too vigorously, since in this case the yeast fungi quickly get tired and begin to multiply slowly. In addition, other bacteria that are harmful to them can easily develop.

The purpose of fermentation, as you know, is to produce carbon dioxide, which loosens the dough and makes it rise. - The amount of gas emitted, as studies have shown, depends not so much on the amount of yeast fungi, but on the amount of the Zymase enzyme formed, which they secrete, since the formation of sugar is the result of the action of this very diastasis. Etc. Linde found that one gram of yeast can produce 275 to 360 cc. sant. carbon dioxide depending on the amount of water (33% -45%) in the leaven. The more water the leaven contains, the more fermentation is.

Temperature also has a very large effect on their action: at + 20 ° C, the amount of carbon dioxide is released noticeably more than at 30 ° C. The same effect has the refreshing of the leaven, which promotes the release of this gas. Etc. Linde noted an interesting fact (based on his experiments) that the formation of the enzyme "Zymase" occurs inversely with the multiplication of cells, for example, the ability to produce diastasis is reduced in too rapidly multiplying yeasts.

Then he noticed that with the Viennese method of bread production, where yeast is put directly into the dough without preliminary preparation of the dough (raschin). yeast cells multiply the faster, the less they are in the leaven. In proportion to the content in the dough 1,2,4 or 8 thousand. yeast, each cell gives 8,6,3 or 2 generations in 18 hours. This curious phenomenon is probably explained by the harmful influence of the overcrowding of cells on their ability to reproduce. In practical terms, this has the meaning that the uneven distribution of yeast in the leaven is equalized to some extent by the greater or lesser ability of their cells to multiply.

The sourdough contains the same alcoholic fungus as in the pressed yeast, but somewhat smaller, and therefore it is called "saccharomyces minor", which releases carbonic acid without hydrogen. Other fungi also get into flour, for example, from sourdough, if it lies for a long time in a warm place, which do not form carbon dioxide at all, but cause exclusively acidic fermentation with their enzymes, converting starch into sugar, and sugar into lactic acid. The latter is eliminated by other bacteria that cause oil fermentation.

Therefore, it is very important for baking purposes that for loosening the dough, predominantly pressed yeast containing a pure culture of yeast fungus or, in extreme cases, fresh sourdough, but by no means sour, which can spoil the whole dough, is used.

It is not enough, after kneading the dough and adding loosening agents, to bake it, since this method will result in a very tasteless bread, consisting of a dense crumb with large voids inside. This is due to the fact that with this method, fermentation is often incomplete and not uniform, as a result of which those chemical processes that were described above do not end, and therefore some particles of flour remain unchanged.

As a result, practice has developed another method, where yeast or sourdough is not added immediately to the entire mass of the dough, but first only in a certain part of it, called raschin or dough, which is left alone for some time to give the dough time to come to the maximum state of fermentation. Then just add a fresh portion of flour and water to it. This fractional addition of flour and water to yeast or sourdough has the goal of, as it were, refreshing the yeast fungus, that is, at first giving it less work, and then, when it develops and grows stronger in a small amount of fresh dough, they give it new work, etc. until all the dough has been added. For the uniformity of the bread, after adding each new portion of flour, thoroughly mix the entire dough so that all its particles come into contact with the leaven, which contributes to a uniform and faster fermentation.

As mentioned in the first part of this book, pressed yeast or sourdough can be used to loosen the dough using yeast fungi. The former, containing an almost pure culture of the alcoholic fungus, develop mainly alcoholic fermentation (at least at the beginning of their action), and therefore give a non-acidic dough, which we usually use for white bread.

For black bread, which is usually baked sour or sweet-sour, sourdough is used, that is, an old fermented dough containing, in addition to alcoholic yeast, others that cause sour fermentation, as indicated above. But the leaven quickly deteriorates, and therefore it should be stored, especially in the summer, in a cool place (in the cellar), and its consistency should be in the form of a thick dough (it cannot be stored in a batter).

In the cold season, the leaven can also be stored in the baking room (for several days), but at the same time it is necessary to sprinkle it on top with dry flour and refresh it daily, that is, add to it while stirring fresh flour in the amount of 10% by weight of the leaven. It is common practice to leave about 10 lb. tsta on a sack of flour.

A good leaven is characterized by the following qualities: it has an alcoholic smell and a sour taste, it should not sink in water; when pressing its surface (with a finger), the formed depression should soon disappear. If baking is carried out continuously and part of the sourdough is constantly taken into work, then, as practice teaches, you should take no more than half of it each time, and immediately add the same amount of fresh dough (mixed in warm water), which, after mixing well, put in a warm place (at + 25 to 30 R.); here they let her stand quietly for two hours to allow the whole mass to ferment. If, on the contrary, the leaven is rarely used and it has to lie for several days (sometimes for weeks without using it, then, as indicated above, it must be refreshed by adding flour.

Some advise sprinkling it with table salt on top, which, on the one hand, delays fermentation, and on the other hand protects it from decay. To what extent the addition of salt (NaCl) delays fermentation, can be seen from the following (Intend. Journal of 1908, No. 5, Art. 85). According to T. Golden's research, an admixture of 16% table salt to the dough delays fermentation for 7 days, and 4% salt - for 14 hours.

If the leaven has deteriorated due to an oversight or due to the duration of storage, then it can be gradually corrected by constantly adding flour with sugar to it or by drying it, which is done as follows: small lumps are made from the spoiled leaven, which are placed in a dry place (Kudryavtsev's method). If there is no leaven left, and sour fermentation is required for black bread, then proceed as follows: Take 30 lbs. rye flour and pour in one bucket of warm water (at 31 R.). in which ¼ pound of compressed yeast is pre-diluted. Having mixed this dough well, let it stand quietly in a warm place (covering the bowl) for a day, and at first alcoholic fermentation is formed, which then turns into sour (like a leaven).

Having prepared the leaven in this way and passing the flour through a sieve to clean it from litter, they begin to prepare the raspin. For this, the required amount of yeast or sourdough is weighed out and stirred in warm (25 ° R.) water (cold water extremely inhibits fermentation), stirring well, especially when fermenting, in order to break all the lumps of dough into an even liquid gruel.

Then to the resulting liquid mass, first part of the flour (for rye bread, usually half of the flour) and water are added, and the dough is thoroughly mixed. After that, the mixed dough is sprinkled with flour on top and, covered with a lid, is placed in a warm place (at + 17 R.), where it is left alone for 6-8 hours so that the whole mass comes into fermentation.The end of the fermentation process is recognized by the bubbles and gas released on the surface of the dough, and the dough, which had almost doubled in volume by that time, begins to fall. Then add the rest of the flour with water to the rasschin in two or three steps, stirring well each time and letting the dough ferment for some time. The dough is considered sufficiently mixed when it does not stick to the fingers. After that, he is allowed to wander for another two hours, so that it rises again.

Many people recommend cooking raschin not with wheat or rye flour, but with potato flour, which presents the next big advantage. Potato flour contains some kind of, still insufficiently examined, nitrogenous substance (apparently an enzyme), which acts as a pathogen on yeast, as a result of which fermentation occurs much more vigorously and rather with a relatively smaller amount of yeast consumed. For this purpose, the potatoes are boiled (by putting steam in a vat with potatoes) and mixed with water to form a liquid gruel, to which, after cooling to + 25 or 30 C, yeast is added. When using potato rasch, the rest is done as usual (above).

It is necessary to pay attention so that fermentation does not last too long, otherwise, on the one hand, the dough will begin to taste too sour, and on the other, there is a risk that cracks will appear in the loaves through which carbon dioxide will escape, as a result of which the dough settles and the bread becomes dense. Therefore, at the moment when the dough finally rises, the loaf should be immediately put into the oven. But if this is not possible, then further fermentation must be stopped, for which it is enough to cool the loaves. For this purpose, they are transferred to a cool room or exposed to cool air.

The loaf, ready for baking, is a raw spongy mass consisting of elastic gluten mixed with starch particles and soaked in a solution of sugary substances and peptonized proteins. The pores of this loose mass are filled with bubbles of carbon dioxide, which keeps the dough from falling. An aqueous solution of this mass contains a small amount of alcohol, acetic and lactic acid, i.e., fermentation products. In this form, the loaves are loaded into the oven, where they undergo further chemical changes.

Admin

For those who are not indifferent to sourdough, I made an addition at the beginning of the first message - look, there is new and interesting information for you.

Also, in order to understand the goals and objectives of the starter cultures, I recommend reading two materials in this topic, well, very interesting and informative.

APPLICATION OF SQUARE IN THE PRODUCTION OF GRAIN BREAD

L. Kozubaeva, S. Koneva
"Bread products"

CHEMICAL PART OF DOUGH FORMATION

(MANUAL OF BAKERY. 1913)

Posts 22 and 23

Alexandra
Admin,

The materials that you bring should be studied and thought over.

Your comment on the use of different lactic acid products is very interesting.
Soon it will be possible to grow starter cultures for any tastes ...

This is what I want to ask. Everywhere you mention old or aged lactic acid products.
And if you feed the ready-made sourdough fresh? Mine eats fresh whey and works great. And will it be possible to start a new one with fresh whey?

I am interested in whey as a pro-practically protein-free product, I am now on an intensive diet with predominantly separate meals, and the only right bread for me is water or whey.

Thank you very much for your efforts and experiments!

Admin
Quote: Alexandra

Admin,

The materials that you bring should be studied and thought over.

Your comment on the use of different lactic acid products is very interesting.
Soon it will be possible to grow starter cultures for any tastes ...

This is what I want to ask. Everywhere you mention old or aged lactic acid products.
And if you feed the ready-made sourdough fresh? Mine eats fresh whey and works great.And will it be possible to start a new one with fresh whey?

I am interested in whey as a pro-practically protein-free product, I am now on an intensive diet with predominantly separate meals, and the only right bread for me is water or whey.

Thank you very much for your efforts and experiments!

Alexandra, very often "Mr. case" works, which I write about in my topic.

Regarding old lactic acid products - I have already said why this is so more than once.
I remember the old truth, pancakes should be put on old kefir.
I don’t know how to explain it, but the taste and smell of sour milk disappears from pancakes on old kefir, which not everyone likes.
Try to bake pancakes yourself on fresh and old kefir, you yourself will understand. And then dough products made from old kefir are taller and more lush. As an example, also a dough for herculean pancakes, during the night such a war passed in it, such a seething. It turns out that kefir worked overnight and turned into sourdough - fermented dough, dough - whatever you want to call it.

I fed the sourdough both fresh and old - it's about the taste of the baked bread, it will be with a good sourness (piquant) inherent in rye bread, or just a sour taste, which many do not like. It's just a matter of personal taste for everyone who likes it.

Soon I will exhibit one more bread, super in my understanding. You just need to adjust the water in the dough.
Admin
SQUARE ON HERCULES FLAKES

And I have a dream (like Elena Bo), if oat flakes interact so actively with kefir (yogurt) with oatmeal pancakes, then why not make sourdough on them.
And so I (like Elena Bo) think for a long time, think, and nevertheless (like Elena Bo) I go at 24.00 to put the leaven on oat flakes (like Elena Bo her rye in a slow cooker), and then nursed the leaven for three days and watched for her well-being.
This is how it was.

Hercules flakes (long cooking) 40-50 grams were poured with old sour cream diluted whey to the state of "liquid pancakes", left for a day.
After a day, the state of the sourdough did not improve much, I had to apply a stimulant to it in the form of 2 tbsp. l. rye sourdough and 40 grams of rye flour.
At the next second and third feeding, I added again 50 grams of rolled oats and whey to the state of "pancakes". The leaven began to play in full force and boil. Periodically beat the sourdough with a broom to saturate it with oxygen, let it breathe.
This is what happened after three days of fermentation.

🔗

And this is after mixing.

🔗

The leaven is ready for further use.
It should be noted that rolled oats (oats) give a drier sourdough than wheat flour or rye flour. This can be seen on the sides of the dishes, where the leaven quickly dries to the dishes.

The bread based on hercules sourdough turned out to be very large and loose on the inside, proofing took less time than rye bread. Flakes are felt in the sourdough, but in bread they dissolve completely. The dough is airy and very pliable to work with.

You can watch the baking of white bread with hercules sourdough here:

Shaped wheat bread with hercules sourdough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3736.new#new
Elena Bo
Quote: Admin

You can watch the baking of white bread with hercules sourdough here:
Where?
Admin, I really liked the idea of ​​oatmeal. I decided to transfer my leaven to oat feeding. Subconsciously, it seems to me that it will be better.
Admin
Quote: Elena Bo

Where?
Admin, I really liked the idea of ​​oatmeal. I decided to transfer my leaven to oat feeding. Subconsciously, it seems to me that it will be better.

Now I'm exhibiting a recipe. I just made two notes at once.
Admin
Quote: Elena Bo

Where?
Admin, I really liked the idea of ​​oatmeal. I decided to transfer my sourdough to oat top dressing. Subconsciously, it seems to me that it will be better.

It all depends for what purposes to grow it.
You can bake rye bread by adding whole wheat flour (rye sourdough).
You can bake wheat bread by adding wheat flour (light herculean leaven)
I now have two jars in the fridge waiting for the order.
Elena Bo
Admin, I have some rye flakes. When I add them to rye bread, they are not visible, but the bread turns out better, more airy. So, I think, you can feed the sourdough with rye flakes. I'll go and try.
And the bread is very good with oat sourdough.
Admin

Lena, rye flakes are not so sorry, "snotty" like rolled oats. And the color and effect can be obtained from rye flour.

And oatmeal has a different effect of "snotty", the dough seems to be glued together, but at the same time very soft. And yet light in color.
Interestingly - the dough was completely white with interspersed with rolled oats, I thought it would never light up in the oven, but the finished bread turned out to be grayish.
You just need to try it yourself, words cannot convey it.
Elena Bo
Admin, rye has already been shoved. I'll see how it will be, oatmeal is never too late to use. What has my leaven not tasted already. I keep it for rye bread, with wheat, something does not come out yet (the taste is not the same), and rye is super.
Admin
I went and tried it again, it turns out good wheat bread, it feels like it is leavened, not yeast.

What I like about the leaven is that you don't have to calculate the flour and water to a milligram, there is a leaven that already contains water and flour, just add wheat flour to the bun and hello.
Elena Bo
Admin, yes, I have no doubt that your bread is good. I still have no wheat.
Admin
Quote: Elena Bo

Admin, yes, I have no doubt that your bread is good. I still have no wheat.

But the cakes are gorgeous
Alexandra
Quote: Admin

SQUARE ON HERCULES FLAKES

This is how it was.

Hercules flakes (long cooking) 40-50 grams were poured with old sour cream diluted whey to the state of "liquid pancakes", left for a day.
After a day, the state of the sourdough did not improve much, I had to apply a stimulant to it in the form of 2 tbsp. l. rye sourdough and 40 grams of rye flour.

Admin,

The idea is just great, and even more important - it is brought to mind and presented in the form of an understandable guide

Do you think that in order to save time and effort, you can immediately start growing herculean ferment from rye lactic acid? This is how I made whole grain from my strong rye and baked excellent bread. By analogy I think
Admin
Quote: Alexandra

Admin,

The idea is just great, and even more important - it is brought to mind and presented in the form of an understandable guide

Do you think that in order to save time and effort, you can immediately start growing herculean ferment from rye lactic acid? This is how I made whole grain from my strong rye and baked excellent bread. By analogy I think

AlexandraI think it makes sense. Look, at first I didn't want to ferment, I had to call rye for help, though quite a bit just to throw in the "yeast", so the process began right away, but what a.
And now I already have a little ready-made sourdough, I'll see how it behaves further when re-feeding.

At first, apparently you will get a darkish bread from rye sourdough, and then it brightens.
Although with this leaven, my bread does not turn out white, but grayish.

Try it, it will work!

Here in the internet I met a description of buckwheat sourdough Try something to a heap
Alexandra
Buckwheat bread and sourdough excite my interest less
Buckwheat flour, in contrast to whole buckwheat, rye and whole grain flours, has an inappropriate glycemic index for me.

And in order to continue experiments with sourdoughs - the very thing
Admin
Quote: Alexandra

Buckwheat bread and sourdough arouse my interest less
Buckwheat flour, in contrast to whole buckwheat, rye and whole grain flours, has an inappropriate glycemic index for me.

And in order to continue experiments with sourdoughs - the very thing

Nevertheless, they noticed how airy-openwork bread turned out to be buckwheat with sourdough
Alexandra
Delightful-looking tender bread ... I can imagine how it tastes
Admin

This is how it happens in life.
You do a lot purely intuitively, and observe the behavior of certain products when interacting with each other.

So it was with the sourdoughs when I started adding curd whey to them. Everything was done on a whim, according to observations at different times, and "Mr. Great Chance" helped, and often helps.

It is all the more pleasant when you find information that confirms your thoughts, experiments. So it happened with curd whey.

I suggest you get acquainted with this information:

The use of natural milk whey in the production of bread and bakery products from wheat flour

Natural milk whey according to OST 49-92-75 is a secondary product of milk processing into cottage cheese, rennet cheeses and casein. It has the appearance of a greenish liquid with a clean, characteristic milk whey taste and smell.
In baking, curd whey, unsalted cheese whey and whey obtained by precipitating casein can be used.

Salted cheese whey with a sodium chloride content of up to 6% is not recommended for use in baking.

When making bread products from wheat flour, natural milk whey can be used:
- to activate the fermenting microflora of liquid yeast, yeast suspension, liquid dough, etc.;
- to intensify the dough preparation process, increase the nutritional value of bread products with sponge and accelerated methods of dough making and saving flour;
- for the production of varieties of bread, the recipe of which provides for its use.

When using milk whey to activate the fermenting microflora or to intensify the process of dough making, it is used instead of part of the water used to prepare the dough.

The amount of natural whey used depends on the type and baking qualities of the flour used, the type of bread products, the technological schemes used, as well as the acidity of the whey.

Approximate data on the consumption of natural milk whey in the production of bread products from wheat flour are given in Table 3.

Bread made from wheat wallpaper and a mixture of wheat wallpaper with wheat flour of the II grade (Any method adopted in baking) - whey consumption,% to the flour mass, in natural form 15-20%

Bread from wheat flour of II and I grades (sponge, bezoparny) - whey consumption,% to the flour mass, in natural form 10-15%

Bakery and pastry products from flour of II, I and the highest grades ((Sponge, bezoparny) - whey consumption,% to the flour mass, in natural form 7-10%

Bakery products made of wheat flour II, I and the highest grades (accelerated) - whey consumption,% to the flour mass, in natural form 10-15%

Butter products from wheat flour of I and the highest grades (accelerated) - whey consumption,% to the flour mass, in natural form 10-15%

If liquid yeast is used in the production of wheat bread, natural milk whey is added both at the stage of preparing the infusion for them, and during the preparation of the nutritional mixture. When preparing a brew, it can replace either part of the water (about 20%) when brewing with hot water, or all of the water when brewing with live steam.

As a result, natural milk whey can be added with liquid yeast in an amount of 6-10% to the weight of flour in the dough.

Good results are obtained by using natural milk whey to activate compressed yeast. In this case, it is used to dilute the tea leaves or to prepare a nutritional mixture consisting of flour and natural milk whey in a 1: 3 ratio. Whey consumption in this case will be 4 - 6% by weight of flour in the dough.

As a result of the use of whey, the lifting force of liquid and pressed yeast improves, acidity increases faster, and foaming decreases.
The rest of the whey can be added while kneading the dough.Its total amount must comply with the recommendations given in the table, taking into account the type and quality of flour, the quality of whey and the dough preparation technology used at the enterprises.
With sponge methods of dough management, natural milk whey can be added instead of part of the water both to the dough and to the dough.

At the same time, the fermentation time of the dough with milk whey is reduced by 40 - 60 minutes. The fermentation time of dough mixed with dough with milk whey is practically the same as usual. The introduction of whey directly when kneading the dough leads to a reduction in the duration of its fermentation by 20 - 40 minutes.

The use of natural milk whey in the production of bread from rye and a mixture of rye and wheat flour

When producing various types of bread from rye and a mixture of rye and wheat flour, natural milk whey can be used:

• to intensify the production cycle, save flour and increase the nutritional value of bread;
• to improve the lifting force of liquid starter cultures and to somewhat reduce foaming;
• for the production of bread varieties with natural milk whey included in the recipe.

Approximate data on the consumption of natural milk whey in the production of rye and rye-wheat bread varieties are given below:

- On thick sourdough - Whey consumption,% to the mass of flour in the dough, in natural form 10-15%

- On traditional or concentrated liquid sourdough with the addition of pressed or liquid yeast to the dough - 10-15%

- On the tip of ripe dough or dough with the addition of liquid yeast - 15-20%

When using whey in a nutritional formula, pay attention to the consistency of the liquid starter culture refreshed with the nutritional formula with whey. The lifting force of liquid starter culture with whey is improved, fermentation is reduced by 30-60 minutes.

It is also practiced to use whey in the brew instead of all the water when brewing the whey-flour mixture with live steam.

In this case, with brewing, up to 15% of milk whey can be consumed to the total mass of flour in the dough.

When brewing tea leaves with boiling water, the consumption of whey will be reduced to 3-5% to the mass of flour in the dough.

The highest consumption of whey (up to 15% to the mass of flour in the dough) can be when added to the nutrient mixture for refreshing the liquid leavened starter culture.

Liquid leavened starter culture with milk whey foams less and ripens faster on average by 1 hour.

Whey can also be used to activate compressed yeast.

Use of whey concentrates instead of part of sugar, molasses or milk powder in the production of bakery products

When preparing bakery products, the recipe of which includes powdered milk, it is recommended to replace:

• 1 kg of dry cow milk per 1 kg of dry whey with the addition of 0.3 kg of fat;
• 1 kg of skimmed cow's milk or 1 kg of dry buttermilk per 1.5 kg of dry whey.

With such a replacement, the dose of dry cheese whey should not exceed 3%, and the dose of dry curd whey should not exceed 1.5% by weight of flour. It is recommended to apply whey concentrates at the same stage of the technological process at which the introduction of the replaced raw material is provided. At the same time, the duration of fermentation of semi-finished products is reduced by 20-60 minutes, depending on the type of flour, acidity and dose of whey.

When producing bakery products from wheat flour of the first and second grade, as well as improved varieties of bread from a mixture of wheat and rye flour, the recipe of which includes sugar or molasses, it is recommended to replace no more than 1% sugar or 1.5% molasses with an equivalent amount of lactose, contained in whey concentrates. In the production of bakery products from premium flour, it is recommended to replace with whey no more than 0.5 kg of sugar. Such a replacement is economically feasible and does not have a negative effect on the physicochemical and organoleptic characteristics of bread.

With a partial substitution of sugar for whey concentrates, the sugar content in finished products complies with the standards provided for by the current regulatory and technical documents.

The introduction of whey concentrates instead of sugar or molasses does not adversely affect the organoleptic and physicochemical indicators of the quality of bread and provides an increase in yield by 0.5-1.5%.

The use of whey concentrates to intensify the dough preparation process using accelerated methods

Whey concentrates can be used as a means of intensifying the processes of maturation and fermentation of the dough with accelerated methods of making bread. The dose of the applied concentrate depends on its acidity, grade and quality of flour and should provide the required acidity of the dough after kneading. For this it is advisable
use condensed curd and cheese whey with a dry matter content of 40% and an acidity of 400 T (TU 49-803-81), concentrated curd and whey fermented whey with a dry matter content of 30% and an acidity of 300 ° T (TU 49-798-81 ) and fermented cheese whey
condensed with a dry matter content of 30% and an acidity of 800 T (TU 49-718-80) as products containing a significant amount of lactic acid.

The amount of whey concentrate (dry weight 30%) required for the preparation of dough for sliced ​​loaves with an initial acidity of 2.5 degrees and determined according to the previously given formula (per 100 kg of flour) is 4.9 kg.

The cost of such an amount of whey concentrate is higher than the cost of a dry matter equivalent amount of flour. In this regard, it is advisable to add as an acidifying agent such an amount of whey concentrate that can be simultaneously used to replace 0.5-1.0% of sugar provided by the recipe.

Thus, whey concentrates are advisable to use to intensify the process of preparing dough for bread products containing sugar according to the recipe.

Use of whey concentrates to prevent potato disease in bread

To prevent the disease of bread with potato (viscous) disease, whey concentrates with high acidity can be used: concentrated curd whey with a dry matter content of 30%, concentrated damp fermented whey with a dry matter content of 30% (TU 49-798-81), condensed curd whey and fermented cheese (TU 49-
803-81), fermented milk whey (TU 49-718-80).

Whey concentrates are introduced by kneading the dough in the amount of 2 - 5 kg (depending on acidity) per 100 kg of flour.




RybkA
Is it possible to immediately use the MK leaven directly from the refrigerator? Taking into account the fact that she has already been fed three times there and is about to try to escape or still warm it up at room temperature?
Admin
Quote: RybkA

Is it possible to immediately use the MK leaven directly from the refrigerator? Considering that she has already been fed three times there and is about to run away, or is it still warmed up at room temperature?

I would still first let her breathe air, beat it well with a whisk, then let it stand for 2 hours in a warm place and then put it into action.
Admin
Buckwheat sourdough.

I poured 50 grams of buckwheat flour into the jar, added enough cottage cheese whey to make the dough thinner (buckwheat takes a lot of liquid), and added 2 tbsp to start. l. (measured) herculean leaven. Since this is the first fermentation of buckwheat sourdough, I added a little bit of the old strong sourdough.
The leaven began to ferment immediately, and this is what happened to it the next day after the second feeding with buckwheat (about 30 grams + whey).
6 hours passed, and I simply forgot about her, for which I was severely punished.

Now I "punished" her and sent her to ripen overnight in the refrigerator
After the third feeding with buckwheat flour (about 30 grams + whey), it withstood it for another 10 hours.

From above, the leaven looks very dignified and quiet, which cannot be said about it, when I start stirring it, it boils and sizzles strongly.

This is what sourdough looks like before baking bread.

 Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

With this sourdough, I set up to bake "Wheat-buckwheat shaped bread on buckwheat sourdough".
See the recipe and photo here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=4235.new#new

Admin
Sourdough from different types of flour. I will call it conditionally MIX-6.

After conducting my experiments with flour and liquid, many different flours and diluted whey remained (see here Interaction of different types of flour with liquid
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=4234.new#new ),

which had to be disposed of somewhere.
I put all the flour porridges from 6 types of flour into a large bowl, added 2 tbsp. l. hungry herculean and rye sourdough from the refrigerator and left overnight right on the table.

In the morning you should have seen this riot that took place in a bowl
I added another 30 grams of rye flour and a dash of fresh whey, just to refresh this mass. In general, this mass is still raging above the roof, I will put the bread to bake by nightfall.

Let me remind you that the flour was: wheat, rye, buckwheat, corn, chestnut, barley.

Bread baked with this sourdough can be seen here:

Sourdough wheat bread with 6 flours by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...mid=26&topic=4248.new#new

Don't be afraid to experiment, try different ways of baking bread

Good luck!
Tanyusha
Admin on Saturday put the leaven on rolled oats, on Sunday morning there was silence the leaven did not react in any way, on your recommendation I added 1 tbsp of rye sourdough. spoon and after a while my starter culture began to work, and in the evening I fed it with whey with oatmeal and in the morning there was a riot for some night it increased 2 times, I did not think that the leaven would rise like that. I still went to work like a fool, but I didn't put it in the refrigerator, it’s good for me to substitute the plate, I have the leaven in a liter jar 5 cm from the neck.
Admin

Here

I realized that such a leaven needs a starter, at least a little, 1 tbsp is enough. l., and then you can't stop ...

The same thing happened with a new leaven made from different types of flour (see above).
In the total mass of flour, 180 grams + a lot of whey turned out, and I added only 4 tbsp of old sourdough. l .. But what a riot was, especially on the second day before kneading the dough.
It can be compared to a state when water boils and gurgles.

So, do not be afraid of starter cultures, try any. Bread is tastier even in a bread maker.
Only the taste of the bread will depend on what kind of flour you use the leaven (rye, buckwheat, etc.)

I realized for myself that the sourdough flour should ferment well, then the bread tastes better.

But this is my opinion and my observations
Tanyusha
Quote: Admin

I realized for myself that the sourdough flour should ferment well, then the bread tastes better.

Admin I also realized this, the taste of bread becomes different when you add sourdough and the structure of the crumb itself is more porous.
taty
I am pleased to subscribe to this opinion.
I also liked it and add the bran to the sourdough (at night before baking in a small amount of sourdough)
And I have this, Admin, well, almost: red: on the topic. if anything, delete it.
There was a strawberry (a little), covered it with sugar and in the refrigerator, on the 4th day I remembered, I see, it is good, the juice at the bottom is thick, not sour.
I decided to fry pancakes on kefir with strawberries, kneaded the dough on kefir + strawberries with juice, then add soda, I thought. In minutes. as it turned out 40. was already going to fry. have to leave. The dough is in the refrigerator, on the top shelf. it's late at night. fry pancakes and see. so lush and unusual dough - like dough. Then I remember - they are without soda ... (forgot) ..
They turned out so tall. like sourdough or yeast, but without holes, smooth. So it happened by chance. I think it's kefir with strawberries
tried ... Delicious, ate quickly yesterday ...

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