Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

Studying the article "Whole grains" from the topic "Flour, cereals, bran ..." answer # 17 led me to the idea of ​​fermentation of bran in sourdough, which leads to the binding of phytic acid in the bran and makes them healthier.

[Kalmykova]

Kalmykova , I found this advice on bran from Lyudmila mariana-aga - add sourdough and water to the bran and keep it warm for 5-7 hours, ferment the bran, in a word. Haven't tried it myself, but I think it should work.

I add bran to the sourdough together with flour when feeding (rye to rye sourdough, wheat to white sourdough), I keep it for at least a day, most often two. Then I bake bread with such a sourdough, without adding yeast at all. It rises longer (3-4 hours), but it tastes better than a cake! People, having tried once, can no longer eat store-bought bread. A huge gratitude to all colleagues-bakers for this incomparable site, especially ROME!

Good afternoon Admin!

I am asking you for advice !! Here I was puzzled by the male part of our family !!! They ordered me for tomorrow (this is on February 23rd) custard sourdough bread. I am familiar with the technology of choux pastry ... well, this is when flour is poured into hot water with butter ... but how to bake rye bread, but with sourdough !! ??? somehow I do not understand where to start. We sell such bread in our store. Well, at least the label says that bread is leavened and custard. By the way very tasty ... current dear ocheeeen !! If it does not bother you .. can you advise what thread ??

Mouli, unfortunately I didn't post a photo of my custard bread on the forum

The principle of such bread: first, it is brewed, brought to cool and then added to the dough, which is kneaded in the usual way, but with sourdough.

You can see the bread recipes from MISHA in detail:

Custard bread with sourdough malt.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=7834.0


Success

And I remember how my grandmother made sourdough bread from kombucha, she always had it at hand. I fed this mushroom with tea and honey, and added malt to the sourdough, the bread was crumbly and very fragrant.
Unfortunately, I cannot try this recipe, kombucha is grown only from kombucha, for a year now (when the idea arose) I can't get it from anyone
Now I make bread with eternal leaven, by trial and error everything turns out with varying success, I bake it in a gas oven.
The most offensive thing is that the dough fits smartly, but at the baking stage ... it was even cooked once
But that such bread is useful, I can confirm 100%. Since before, after bread, I suffered from pain in the stomach, but now everything is OK and the energy has appeared, this is in the spring, when vitamin deficiency
So leaven is something

I add bran to the sourdough together with flour when feeding (rye to rye sourdough, wheat to white sourdough), I keep it for at least a day, most often two. Then I bake bread with such a sourdough, without adding yeast at all. It rises longer (3-4 hours), but it tastes better than a cake! People, having tried once, can no longer eat store-bought bread. Many thanks to all colleagues-bakers for this incomparable site, especially ROME!

Could you tell us what recipe you use to prepare your rye bread? Otherwise, I have already lost hope of cooking what is expected of me. The rye bread with kefir sourdough came out heavy, dull, besides, I cooked with buckwheat flour, but I don't quite like breads with a buckwheat flavor. Thanks in advance!

Admin thanks for the sourdough recipe.
I now bake white without sugar and yeast. For diabetics, that's it.
for 240 g flour 240 g sourdough.
The bread rises remarkably.
After kneading, let stand for 5 hours and you can bake.
I completely forgot about yeast now. only leavened.

Lactic sourdough rye bread: 3 tablespoons of malt + 3 tablespoons of rye flour + 1 or 2 tablespoons of a mixture of spices (coriander, caraway seeds, fennel, anise), pour hot water and mix well. In the mixer bowl I put from 2.5 to 3.5 measuring cups of thick MC of leaven (rye, of course), weigh 300 g of rye flour on the scales, but I do not pour all the flour into the bowl at once. I add salt (2 hours) and sugar (2 tablespoons) with a measuring spoon and with an ordinary tablespoon walnut or mustard oil - 2 tablespoons, sometimes half a spoonful of flaxseed oil. I add about 200 ml of good dark beer to the almost cooled steamed malt, mix and pour into the mixer bowl. In the absence of malt, you can take dry kvass (also 3 tablespoons). I turn on the batch. If necessary, add the remaining flour to make a thick, sticky dough, not at all like wheat. I add 2-3 handfuls of dried cranberries, 3 handfuls of pine nuts and pistachios to the dough. I spread it in greased forms with a spoon, level the surface with a wet hand and put it in a warm place for proofing for 3 - 3.5 hours. Bake in a preheated oven for the first 10 minutes with a bowl of boiling water, then remove it and bake it until it is ready, which can be determined either with a temperature probe (95 degrees) or with a dry stick - the dough should not remain on it. Remove from the mold and allow to cool on a wire rack under a towel. The taste of Borodinsky. Good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello. I have been keeping my Admin lactic acid starter in the refrigerator for 5 months now. I feed with whey and rye-wheat mixture. Many people write that it is impossible to store the leaven in the cold, since it kills lactic acid bacteria. Learning that my starter is now not healthy at all and only contains wild yeast? But what should I do if it's already 25 heat outside our window, and then it will only get hotter? Well, now to give up sourdough bread until November>

Read topics about sourdough, sourdough bread - this issue has been covered many times.

For example this one: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=99999999&topic=4994.0

Erhan, I also use sourdough from Admin, I'm very happy, I bake rye bread only with sourdough. I store it in the freezer - don't be surprised. I divided the leaven into 50-gram portions. Two days before baking the bread - I take out the leaven, put it on the table, as soon as it thawed, add 50 g of rye flour and 50 g of aged kefir. And until the next day. The next day I add 100 g of flour and 100 g of water. Lactic bacteria also multiply - the leaven smells like a green apple. The next day, the leaven is so strong that you can already bake bread. I also took the basic recipe from Admin as the basis for rye bread and made it up for myself.

Erhan. I was wrong - not 100 grams of water, but 100 grams of aged kefir.

[Basja]

Basja, thanks for such a message and Bravo sourdough

We have never had anything like this, so that leaven is in the freezer - and then we still bake bread from it

I agree with you, with proper care, MK-sourdough behaves very effectively

Thank you Pleased

[Basja]

Basja, many thanks for the answer. It turns out that the leaven can be left in the freezer for the duration of the holiday, and upon returning, you can immediately bake bread, and not grow new leaven. It would be a shame to part with the old one, we are already used to it, and it is to us too - the bread is simply amazing.

I decided for myself that this is the most convenient way to store the leaven (for me). There are only 2 of us in the family, so I do not bake bread every day and not every other day, but once a week. I tried to keep it in the refrigerator, and since it needs to be fed periodically, it turned out that I had almost a liter jar with sourdough, and, accordingly, I had to throw out most of it. Now I have no problem. Try it. If you're afraid, try an experiment. Take a part (50 g) of the leaven and freeze, and after a day or two defrost and do as I wrote above. On the second day, the sourdough smells extraordinary to me - the smell of a green apple. Taste of bread - to say that it is tasty is to say nothing. Taste- GREAT !!!!!!!!! Go for it.

there is no time to insert a photo, but I promise to fix it
I started the sourdough as potato, on wheat flour. then I fed it with fermented kefir (and I continue).I have already made two breads on it (according to the recipe from the potato sourdough - white and gray), and now I decided to turn it into rye milk-kefir bread.
on wheat flour, she behaved decently, did not run away. and after the rye! ... the hooligan in the refrigerator strives to lift the lid, and now they called, they said that they had run away today we need to bake bread

Hello dear forum users! Take me to your baker's company. I have such a question, maybe a stupid one, but forgive me then, I joined (or rather, I'm trying to join) your ranks, only 4 days ago, I can’t do anything, but the information received makes my head spin, so I put the leaven today, and when can it be used for its intended purpose?

in your ranks, only 4 days ago, I can’t do anything, but the information received makes my head spin, so I put the leaven today, and when you can use it
newbie tip from a former newbie:
bake plain white with wheat flour - from your bread machine's recipe book.
This is the basic bread - when you start to get it good - move on to the more complex options.
it is advisable to start a notebook - you will experiment with the composition - write down what and why - it will come in handy later.

Sourdough is the second step in mastery.
Baking in the oven is the third step in mastery.
A master of the highest level - kneads the dough with his hands and bakes bread in the oven or in a Russian oven - that is, then the bread maker is no longer needed.

Good afternoon, members of the forum! I was very interested in the topic of sourdoughs .... and I tried it ... I got myself a lactic acid sourdough, the first bread without dry yeast just shook it !!! The recipe was using a sourdough-based dough, which I actually found on your website, and the recipe itself is at this address:

🔗
BUT ... once I tried to make wheat bread based on sourdough, without dough, and immediately knead and let stand ... but the trouble is, I don't understand why ... it doesn't rise and that's it ... in the end I baked what it is, and it turned out very sour ... it's impossible to eat, but I did not despair and let's try to bake further, being afraid of sour bread, I tried not to overexpose the dough .... but it doesn't rise and that's it, only with dough and a good bread comes out !! I’m already upset and don’t understand ... what I’m doing wrong ... and I’m using recipes, but it doesn’t rise, and that’s all ... can anyone come across a similar problem, help me understand what the errors are ... please aaaaaaaaa

[VerbaO]

VerbaO

Your leaven is out of order. Check how you feed it, store it. After using it in a dough, it manages to more or less "oklematsya" and picks up bread, but itself is weak and does not work well. The acidity of your leaven is increased (most often due to improper feeding), during a long proofing it grows even more, so you get sour bread.
Two options: either start to feed the starter correctly and bring it to mind,
or, if things have come to a point of no return, grow a new one.
Good luck to you!

about! thank you very much ... probably it's really a matter of sourdough ... I keep the sourdough in the refrigerator ... I don’t leave it for more than 5 days without feeding, if I’m planning to bake bread, I take it out and carry out the feeding procedure from the very beginning, add in equal amounts of flour and kefir (or water) for a day in a row, every other day without hiding it in the refrigerator ...
I read that sourdough can smoothly pass from one type to another, you can add different flour and liquids to it ... maybe this is not entirely correct ...?

In many recipes, I see that yeast is added along with the sourdough, I thought that in the transition from yeast to sourdough, the goal is not only taste but also benefit - live bacteria are better than chemical ones ... maybe I'm wrong?
How can these recipes "on leaven and yeast" be adapted purely for sourdough, do not tell me?
oh ... well, and one more question ... the leaven in the fridge never bubbled in my fridge after a few days, as in the photo of Admin, but only when it's warm it starts to ferment ... maybe the temperature in the fridge is very high. ... cold
I keep it in a three-liter jar ...

[I keep it in a three-liter jar ...]

Let's start at the end, it seems that this is where the root cause of your failures lies:

I keep it in a three-liter jar ...

after all, after three days of feeding (if done in the correct proportion), you can take starter baths

Pay attention to the fact that the sourdough must be fed not only with equal volumes of kefir flour, but also the amount of fresh dough (i.e. feeding) must be at least 2 times more than the sourdough that you feed. This is the only way to ensure "a healthy mind in a healthy body"

Otherwise, the leaven will lose all its strength, which happened to you, and will become acidic. Such a healthy body needs something to eat, otherwise exhaustion is inevitable.

Take from the available quantity no more than 50 g and start working with them.

I read that sourdough can smoothly pass from one type to another, you can add different flour and liquids to it ... maybe this is not entirely correct ...?

Yes it is possible. But I prefer to keep the grown breed and the community of microorganisms clean, that is, the leaven lives and feeds according to all the rules, and, if necessary, I put a dough from the flour on which I want to bake bread.
In many recipes, I see that yeast is added along with the sourdough, I thought that in the transition from yeast to sourdough, the goal is not only taste but also benefit - live bacteria are better than chemical ones ... maybe I'm wrong?

The goals are different for everyone Someone wants to completely abandon yeast, someone wants to improve the crumb structure and taste of bread. By and large, the sourdough contains the same yeast, only wild. Some sourdough bread recipes use minuscule amounts of compressed yeast to speed up the proofing process and make it more predictable in duration. Yes, and so does not have time to peroxide the dough. Although my Frenchwoman calmly raises bread without yeast, I don't see anything wrong with adding 3-4 g of pressed.

In general, we have to find a common language with our leaven, to love it, although it sounds a little crazy MK was my first leaven ... somehow it didn't work out for us ... through my own fault. Now with hindsight I understand all my mistakes and mistakes. And I love the "Frenchwoman" with quivering love, and she reciprocates me

Good luck to you!

Zest! Thank you very much for such a detailed answer))! But I read again about cooking and feeding the lactic acid sourdough ... Admin fed it 100g of flour 100g liquid, and continued ... that is, the proportions of the sourdough and the new dough are 2 times more I did not see, oh, something I'm confused...
I went to watch the French sourdough ... registered I even read it in LJ, but does not show me a page about this leaven and its storage and that's it ... but on this site, by chance, there is no detailed publication of how to grow a French one?

Open the topic

List of starter cultures grown and used on the forum
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8152.0


And find the starter you need

Zest! Thank you very much for such a detailed answer))! But I read again about cooking and feeding the lactic acid sourdough ... Admin fed it 100g of flour 100g liquid, and continued ... that is, the proportions of the sourdough and the new dough are 2 times more I did not see, oh, something I'm confused...
I went to watch the French sourdough ... registered I even read it in LJ, but does not show me a page about this leaven and its storage and that's it ... but on this site, by chance, there is no detailed publication of how to grow a French one?

Yeah, Admin probably didn't grow it in a 3-liter jar Imagine, for such a volume of a living and ever-growing organism, 100 g of total toss It's the same ... like teasing an elephant with a carrot

Try to see here, Viki showed clearly how to raise a French woman
In the same topic, there is a lot of information about feeding and storage.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4994.360

Can you please tell me, I put the MK starter culture 3 days ago, fed it as expected, but it refuses to grow in volume, although it bubbles. What to do: pour it out or can it still be reanimated?

[Girls, please read the topic and see the pictures from the very beginning, everything is clearly visible!]

Girls, please read the topic and see the pictures from the very beginning, everything is clearly visible!

After three days, the leaven can be used, it is full and will no longer grow. The fact that the leaven has fallen out and speaks about this (see photo) - then it will already peroxide.

So it didn’t increase in volume even once, it only bubbled after the 3rd feeding.

I just gave an answer in another thread, copy it here

Open the Lactic sour culture theme by Admin
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3394.0


Pay enough attention to the topic (and not run), carefully look at the text and pictures - I so meticulously collected information and took a photo, described every movement of the leaven!

I don't even know what else can and should be added to the text Smiling

Make a daily plan for yourself - what and how to do and watch.

And go ahead!

I always grow sourdoughs like that - I make a feeding scheme, write down what and when to do, and then make a comment for myself along the way. And you can see everything at once

Believe me, but I have nothing more to add, I gave so much information

Dear Admin, I have another question, I put the leaven for the second time, I had to pour out the first one, it bubbles well, but the growth does not want to feed it 3 times strictly by the hour, tell me. What am I doing wrong? And can it be stored outside the refrigerator? And then she generally froze there and slept, it was cool in the house, I put her on the window and she slowly fermented there. Thanks for the answer.

Made a sourdough according to your recipe. At first I thought that I would have to pour it out, since she was bubbling, but she did not want to get up. After some deliberation, I decided to give her a chance and was not mistaken, though I had to put her for a short while next to the heater, but she came to life. She is already a little over a month old, I tried to add it and a few spoons to white bread, baked Darnitsky from fugaska, added to pizza the result is always excellent. The truth has not yet decided to completely abandon yeast, but I think over time I will try this too. I tried to bake pancakes with sourdough, honestly they were not very impressed, but overall ok.
And now off-topic, Admin thank you so much for your recipes and your titanic work, you are a real pro Thanks to your theme about Easter, I managed to get my sister on your site. After reading it, she baked Easter cake for the first time, and was absolutely delighted.

Bake good bread for health, and thanks for the kind words

Admin, good morning! The first time I do lactic acid sourdough. I put the dough yesterday at 13.00. I put it in the refrigerator at night (for 10 hours). At 9.30 I took it out of the refrigerator. The sourdough did not change in appearance. As there were single barely noticeable bubbles, they remained. Should it be so?
I am also concerned about the following question. I read in another topic that lactic acid bacteria die in the refrigerator at temperatures below + 10 *, only wild yeast remains. I am worried that my refrigerator is very cold. Can't leave the leaven in it overnight? Or, if the temperature is still lower, is it too late to worry?

PS - I read you carefully, even printed everything out. I wanted to add that I was not sure if I had brought the yogurt to a state that mold was about to appear, as I was afraid that it would actually appear. The smell was sour specific, the water was strongly exfoliated. Some small circles, hardly distinguishable by color, have gone. The taste of curdled milk is very sour. I fermented it with baby kefir "Agusha". Maybe somewhere she was mistaken and did not notice?

One day in the life of a leaven is not an indicator

Continue to feed as usual and watch her.

A lot has already been written on the forum about storage in the refrigerator and wild yeast, I will not repeat myself.
I have my own opinion on this subject and on the forum there are works of venerable people of scientists (section Bread - everything is head) whom I trust more.
Try to grow the sourdough according to the French principle and give it along with rye flour and cottage cheese whey (it is fresh), and a little kefir diluted with water, and curd diluted with water, and sometimes just water in proportions of 50 grams of flour + 60 grams of liquid.
I do top dressing once a day - in the interval, I just plant it.
If I don't need the leaven, I put it in the refrigerator on the warmest shelf.
If necessary, I take it out, make a couple of dressings and the leaven is ready for baking.

Such combinations will reduce the acidity of the starter, but will not change its properties.

I myself am now feeding my mk-leaven according to this principle - the result is worthy.

Success

And I keep it in the refrigerator! And I'm going to do so further! She feels good there. And she smells like apples. At first, when I read about the smell, I could not imagine - how is it? What apples. And once she smelled and realized - here it is, this smell, I already wanted apples.
Yesterday I fed it for the second time before baking, and added half a teaspoon of honey. She stood on the table for an hour, then in the refrigerator on the top shelf. Now they took it out to me (to keep it warm for a couple of hours) and they say that it is already under the lid, all lively and perky.
I've even photographed the bread, I can't put it all out.
I bake in a bread maker (not according to the program - I don't have time to rise) - dough-proofing-pastries.
And now I always have kefir on the table - it sours

Admin! Thank you very much!
I will definitely study the topic of storage at my leisure.

For comparison.

The very first batch of starter you supplied has the smell of rotten grass, rotten hay and is really unpleasant and disgusting

But gradually as it ripens and activity, the smell approaches that of apple

The same is with the taste of sourdough - do not hesitate and taste the sourdough on your tongue - the sourdough will tell you a lot about its health and condition and readiness for baking.
Start trying and remember in what situations the smell and taste of the leaven changes - it will be useful for you

I learned how to insert photos! This is wheat bread on MK sourdough, baked goods in KhP.

Gray bread (1/3 rye, 2/3 wheat flour) - top two images. When there is less rye flour, the result is fluffier.
Rye bread (1/2 rye flour) - bottom image - baked yesterday. Has risen a little less. But tasty! I read a lot here, decided to experiment - I added 1/4 tablet of ascorbic acid - there are no special changes.

Well, very pretty bread, thanks for the photo

Can you get a recipe for the studio?

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Wheat bread: sourdough on wheat flour with bran or whole grain flour, the consistency is almost like dough - about 2 measuring cups (I do it by eye), 200 ml of milk (delicious on ghee) or whey, 2 tablespoons of butter (walnut, mustard, sesame seeds; if flaxseed, then half a spoonful of it and the rest of the dose is another oil), 2 measured tablespoons of sugar, 2 measured teaspoons of sea salt, good flax seed, sesame seeds, if any, Makfa flour 330 grams, but I do not add all at once, I look at the bun. It happens that flour and 350 g fit. All. The program at Delongey 1 has been extended to 6 hours. It turns out a large bread with a delicate, very porous crumb. You can add almonds or pecans to this recipe, after frying them slightly and cooling them down. Now I am making French herbs with sea salt seasoning, dry basil and some other herbal seasoning, yesterday it turned out superb.

Kalmykova, such a beautiful bread, photo, and a good recipe

Why don't you post it by all the rules as a separate topic - it deserves it

Good luck!

Dear ROMA! I am a kettle in the computer. Please advise how to post the recipe!

Admin! I want to bake Lionel Poliana's Parisian whole grain at MKZ.
And the situation at the moment is as follows. At 13-00 there was the third feeding, after which I left for the whole day. At 21-00 I looked and realized that while I was not there, the sourdough reached a peak and fell out (it is clear from the traces on the bowl). In other posts I read that the leaven should be used at the peak of growth. And what does it mean that the bread will rise less than it would have risen had I not missed the moment?

Agree with other authors.

I met information and myself used this method, when the sourdough can be used within 4 hours after falling off, but you need to be completely sure as a result of baking bread.

Make a choice. If you are not sure, it is better not to risk it!

The really best result is a sourdough with a convex roof and starts to sag slightly

Good luck!

And what should I do now if I don't want to risk it? Put it in the refrigerator and turn it into liquid and then use it?

Stir well, siege. Add a little flour and water, diluted kefir (yogurt), whey 50x50 (60) and leave until rising.

And bake there

I accepted the prompt. That is, in fact, this is another top dressing? But you said that the dropping off of the leaven means that it will no longer rise and will only sour further. And I realized that during the maximum rise, we take the starter culture as needed, and put the leftovers into the refrigerator, and then we carry out a cycle of growing liquid starter culture until the next use, as in the second master class. Explain, please, otherwise I seem to have misunderstood something ...