Lactic acid starter culture by Admin

But if it happened to you, and you need a stove - what do you want to do?

Now I support the sourdough in small portions - like the French - feeding once a day - in the proportion of 50 grams of rye flour and 60 grams of micron-liquid (but not quite acidic, it is better to dilute), in between, precipitate once. It rises and grows very well. I even do her at times an execution - I remove part of the old one and make a new top dressing.

There will be time, I will do another master class, you can - wait, but for now we will be on the questions.

[quote author]

Try to see here, Viki showed clearly how to raise a French woman
In the same topic, there is a lot of information about feeding and storage.

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4994.360
[/ quote]

Zest, I sort of figured out with the correct cultivation))) now I do not dilute the starter in three-liter cans

I got myself a little beauty on rye flour, the rye ended, I started feeding it with wheat) I'll see what happens) I also bought myself malt, I will try to be friends with a Frenchwoman))
BUT, I still can't keep up with my head, how to properly store the leaven
so much information .... I'm confused ... honestly, can you help me?
I bake on average 1-2 times a week, as I understand, you can store the sourdough in the refrigerator, but this is undesirable ... I have less than 10 degrees there ((
I learned for myself the following:
1.feed the leaven, in proportions, at least 1: 1: 1, otherwise I will again have a hungry monster)
2.You can also mix flour and water with the starter culture in proportions of 1: 5: 5 (for example, 20 grams of starter culture and 80 grams of flour and water each), and as I understand it, you can hide it in the refrigerator after it rises)
3. I also read that the so-called starter is stored in the refrigerator for 1-2 weeks and is not fed !!! and when necessary they take it out and put it into action ...
..... how to be, how is it right ... to do so as not to ruin the starter culture and not to dilute it with a three-liter jar ... is it really possible that one way out is to take a little for storage, and throw out the rest ???

Yesterday I came from Russia and buried my mk leaven The husband turned out to be leaving the fridge ... she is good and not picky ..

[VerbaO]

VerbaO

now I'm confused ... so what is your leaven - lactic acid or not? Do you feed her with sour milk?

[VerbaO]

VerbaO

now I'm confused ... so what is your leaven - lactic acid or not? Do you feed her with sour milk?

apparently it was necessary to write in another topic)) but since I spread my snot here)) so here I continued
I have sourdough on water and flour)))) I feed with water and flour)

Admin! I'm preparing a liquid lactic acid starter culture. I took the leaven out of the refrigerator this morning. / By this time, she had not been feeding her for 4 days. However, in bubbles, like yours in five days, she did not go. But the smell is very strong vinegar /. Fed up - 100 flour and 100 whey. The vinegar smell remained the same expressive. The taste is very sour. What worries the most is the smell - is it what it should be?

PS - For the "liquid" sourdough I used only the "thick" part. Throw away the remains of "thick"?

[VerbaO]

VerbaO

Feeding a wheat sourdough like the French can be reduced to one primitive scheme:
- feed so that the amount of flour in the top dressing is by no means less than the amount of flour in the sourdough;
- feed as soon as the leaven has doubled in volume.

These are two fundamental principles. And then select a scheme that would fit into your personal rhythm of life.The smaller the amount of sourdough you feed, the greater the proportion of the old sourdough to the new top dressing, the longer the sourdough will not grow twice. The lower the temperature (but not less than + 10 * C) at which maturation occurs, the longer this process. Within this framework, you can play as you see fit.
Good luck))

Zest! Thank you very much)) I will try!

Admin! I have a second day of growing liquid MKZ. Only I am not going anywhere. I don't put the leaven in the refrigerator for a day, I watch. She got up and walked with those very "mounds-bubbles". I mixed it, precipitated it, saturated it with oxygen. I think she's hungry again. Can it be put into action today if it rises or not? If it is impossible and it is "not ready", then it is necessary to immediately clean it in the refrigerator?

And this is Lionel Poliana's whole grain bread with overripe sourdough


The wellness is not what we would like. Probably, first it was necessary to simplify the task and use, if not dry, then at least compressed yeast. And only then switch to pure leavened bread.
I'm not sure though. The subject of sourdough would still have to be mastered from scratch

[bagirra225]

bagirra225 : flowers: beautiful bread!
And my question is about the refrigerator, if the sourdough does not grow so violently, then you can not put these first days of its cultivation in the refrigerator at all? Or will it turn sour?

[bagirra225]

bagirra225 : flowers: beautiful bread!
And my question is about the refrigerator, if the sourdough does not grow so violently, then you can not put these first days of its cultivation in the refrigerator at all? Or will it turn sour?

Judi, thanks!
May I speak? Of course, I'm not a big specialist in sourdough. But I would not dare to leave it out of the refrigerator at night, since the behavior of the sourdough is not yet predictable for me. I once left her in the kitchen overnight, and she reached its maximum somewhere after 02.00 and by the time I woke up had already fallen out. It was very disappointing. I raised it for a long time ... And today I look, rushing my leaven (just the third day at the end), and I have to go to the market by a cut. I made a note on the bowl. In 40 minutes we return with the children, and she is already a centimeter of opal!

Thank you, you were right - I had to put it in the refrigerator! She just froze and did not rise much (in the apartment, degrees 18). So I put it in the cartoon - it flooded so !!
Today I will bake bread on it. Truth in a bread maker

Admin, and yesterday at 16 o'clock I put VRP on peroxidized kefir - at first it bubbled up in large bubbles, but did not increase in volume, I mixed it -and ACT-this morning in its original form, only the smell of fermentation (quite pleasant) What would you advise with to do it further, is it possible to feed not increased in volume, or is there no sense of it? Thank you in advance for the consultation, if you, of course, have such an opportunity

Sorry, I do not know this "VRP" kefir

But I can give you a parting word - the leaven will turn out on old natural kefir, yogurt.
If these store products contain additives like antibiotics that prevent milk spoilage, the starter culture may not work.

I can’t repeat myself here (the text is too large), but as a basis for preparing the leaven, see the information at the beginning of the topic - everything is written in detail and even the behavior of the leaven is shown with pictures.

In addition, quite recently (back on the topic) we raised this issue many times

Good luck!

-this is a puntosvitcher (program for switching registers) mocked me in fact with the most natural products, everything is ok with us- and "vrp" is just MKZ -I quickly typed the text and did not see how it looks, but I read the whole topic (and did not only her one), even in the fall I tried to grow an eternal sourdough, but I didn’t work with it either.The saddest thing is that if now nothing works out, then I’ve all lost rye flour with a kilogram and nowhere else to take, I wanted to do it first on rye , and then transfer to wheat and oatmeal. Now I will leave everything alone and I will wait. Thank you all the same for such a quick response

Butter dough on MK sourdough

Great crumb and nice color the starter works well, congratulations on your success

Grew up the sourdough again (another thanks to Admin)
This time there was no yeast :)
And baked a delicious piece of bread on it! Truth in a bread maker, my oven has long been a skiff :)

Oh oh oh !!!!!! ROMA, dear, SAVE !!!!!! I don't know where to go from the leaven, it feels like it is now spreading throughout the house !!!! And it was like this: I fermented the milk, almost to the point of indecency, mixed it with rye flour, then after thinking, added wheat (I don't know why) !!!! She left it on the table, she was seething for herself on the sly, I did not touch her. A day later, that is, today, in the morning I added more wheat-rye mixture and kefirchik, after thorough mixing, left it on the table under supervision ... I give it to different cans and in the refrigerator, and at least she’s rushing and rushing. Well, don't throw it away !!! And what to do next with her - I do not know, can she be put on a diet and not fed at all for a couple of days? I already put the bread into the oven from one of the deferred parts, so the loaf is already resting with its head on the roof, and it is still an hour and forty before baking according to the program. ROMA, tell me, please, how to continue with the leaven !?

REPORTING about my bread on this leaven !!! The most delicious bread I have ever baked !!!!!! I kept trying to fight the fact that he was dry and crumbled, although everything suited the taste. I experimented with leaven to correct this dryness. And now it DONE !!!!!!! AWESOME, wet, light, all perforated. When proofing, it approached so much that I had to "trample" slightly before baking !! ROMA, thank you VERY MUCH for this easy super starter culture !!! Only my question still remains for you: what to do with it if it suddenly starts to become very active, even in the refrigerator? I just looked into the refrigerator, and there one of the two cans (700 gram) is already to the eyeballs, and yet the whole night is ahead! And actually she is a day and a half old. Is she supposed to? Or have I screwed up?

Congratulations on the leaven

Do not make too large a portion of the bookmark - 50 grams of flour and 50-60 ml of milk are enough. You can dilute the milk with a little water.
Feed it once a day, in the interval, upset her.

It means that what is in my refrigerator and threatens to fill the entire surrounding space with itself, you can just stir it?!?! In truth, all ingenious is simple: !!!! Thanks again, ROMA !!!!

[And what if she reaches such a state in half a day - she urgently needs to be put into action? Why exactly 3 days of feeding?]

Admin, I'm in my fifth starter culture cycle. Yesterday at 12.00, after a 4-day break, I fed a sourdough, quiet, quiet one. And by 20.00 it had doubled in size. At the same time, it looked the way it should look by the end of the third day, according to your description: "a wave-bumpy surface made of dirty foam". I remember and observed that the further into the forest, the more reactive the leaven. The more cycles it has gone through, the faster it gains strength. And what if she reaches such a state in half a day - she urgently needs to be put into action? Why exactly 3 days of feeding? I would like to understand. Is this equally true for newly introduced leavens and for not very young ones? Or do you still not get hung up on the number of days and look at the state of the leaven?

Your leaven was resting, it had no active processes.
Now the leaven needs to be revived, to make it work, but not just to work, but to work actively and efficiently.

Therefore, when you feed her for the first time after a rest, she begins to "eat" everything like a hungry person in order to just get enough and satisfy her hunger. But this is not yet the activity that is needed for its high-quality use.

Therefore, it is better to make several dressings - 2 or 3, preferably 3, so that the leaven acquires active properties in taste, smell, lifting power and other qualities.

I prefer to feed the starter culture for 3 days, once a day, stirring (precipitating) it 1-2 times a day between feedings, especially when the starter culture is especially active.
Still, a short top dressing does not give a good effect, this can be seen from its condition, taste and smell.

Before using the starter culture, you need to feed it and bring it to the state of a round neat cap, wait until it begins to settle a little, this will take 6-9 hours at different times.
The taste of the starter will be malic-sour, the smell is apple.

This applies to starters of all ages, especially young ones.

Hope I answered your questions

Everybody girls

They brought me to the state of readiness to do another master class on MK-leaven

I went to put the Rye MK-sourdough from the very beginning, I will report every day

So I decided to brag, I baked rye bread with sourdough and beer yesterday. She is no longer young, I noticed that the older she is, the tastier the bread. Even my husband, who does not like rye, walked around sniffing and licking his lips - he waited for it to cool down. True, he was a little disappointed, because the bread with raisins, and I really liked it, is so yummy.
I want to ask: my bread has fallen just a little bit, maybe it has stuck with me? How much does he need to fit? Yeast put 3-4 grams just in case.
Thanks again to Admin for her work. I'm looking forward to a new master class

IF YOU HAVE A MINUTE PLEASE HELP! AFTER THE FIRST CYCLE, I HAVE LEAVE STOPPED IN THE REFRIGERATOR FOR 4 DAYS. ONLY THE FIRST 3 DAYS WALKED IT IS NOT ACTIVE AND NOT VERY RISE. I DID IT THIS: AN OLD KEFIR DILUTED BEFORE CONSISTENCE OF THICK SOUR CREAM WITH RYE FLOUR - 1 DAY (RISE BADLY) DAY 2 - ADDED 150 ML TO THERE. SERUM AND ADDED RYE FLOUR - THE WHOLE MASS TO THE CONDITION OF A Dense Sour cream. DAY 3 ALSO THE SAME. Bottom line - YEAST SMELL THERE, BUT RISES BADLY. HAS LEFT 4 DAYS IN THE REFRIGERATOR ITS ABOUT 300 ML. I WANT TO PUT TO WERE TODAY. THERE IS YESTERDAY'S SERUM AND YOUR KEFIR FRESH. GUIDE HOW BETTER TO DO AND HOW MUCH WHAT TO ADD?

I gave the answers to these questions here - look carefully.
About feeding sourdough, I just answered here:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


ZAKVASKI - in questions and answers
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


It will not be clear, let's talk more

[macaroni]

macaroni , and please do not write texts in large letters - the text is difficult to read

With normal text writing, you will also be heard and helped

Thank you very much! I will study now

Admin tell the herculean starter culture, I must also wait for the peak of raising it, and how much longer it suits than kefir.
And how do you feed her now in what doses (oatmeal + milk products)
Thank you.

All the same, the basis of the starter culture is lactic acid products (kefir, cottage cheese, whey), and on what to put it on is another.

Checked - everything works. The principle is the same for all starters and the feeding methods are the same.

Today I do not have a herculean sourdough - this is a specific sourdough in terms of properties, albeit a good one. But I prefer bread based on rye sourdough.

Try it - bread made with hercules sourdough is good and delicious.

I baked pastry with black currant, kumquatins and almond flakes in MK-sourdough. Delicious !

It's nice to see that the sourdough was good for baking too.It looks beautiful and appetizing

Congratulations on your success

Thank you! This is all thanks to your work. And fit is not the right word. For baking, pancakes, etc. I use only sourdoughs.

Admin, please tell me what to do. There is an MK-leaven prepared several months ago. Everything was fine with her, the bread was delicious. However, as circumstances developed, the leaven was not used for 2 months. The jar was in the refrigerator. Today the starter culture looks quite acceptable, it smells good.
Question.Should I use this starter? or raise another?

Two options: throw it away and start over.
Or try to revive it, if you are sure that it is still alive, smells good and tastes sour (apple).

I can't repeat myself much, I answered here about feeding the sourdough:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


Try to approach this method, as I wrote above on the links.
If you have any questions - write

Admin, please help !!! I still want to START baking bread on MK sourdough, but I just can't find an explanation of the very beginning: here the sourdough was grown for 3 days - I put it in the refrigerator - I take it out of the refrigerator every other day (2 hours) I feed it (how much sourdough: then in glasses, then spoons, then cups measured) is this also 6-9 hours, and then knead and another 12-18 hours to suit the test? Completely confused with the very beginning !!! I only find how to grow, how to store, how to bake, but how to START: to warm or what to do? Help!!!

[Angelinka]

Angelinka, for starters, look at these topics about feeding sourdoughs answered here:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=3704.0


so that we start to speak the same language further

Then there will be questions - write here

ROMA, please tell me what should be the minimum and maximum rest period of the leaven, thank you

Admin, thank you very much for the quick response !!!
I read your messages: it was this information that I needed! But it's' too late...
I then realized that after growing, you need to put it in the refrigerator, and the next day bake ... and I did it now: 9 tbsp. l. took it out, she warmed up, fed the serum 120ml + 100gr. flour ... I'm waiting ... I wanted to bake bread today ... what to do now?

If I understood correctly from the answers: do you also need to track the kolobok as in your master classes? Should it be the same (respectively, wheat as wheat, rzh-psh as rzh-psh)?
And another question (maybe I missed it again ...) if you leave the sourdough overnight before baking, and bake bread in the morning, then you can skip the peak (she needs 5-8 hours), what to do in order to establish this process, calculate about?

If you have a micro-leaven (and any), and after the refrigerator and hibernation, I would first feed it several times so that it regains its activity.
If the sourdough ferments well and highly, it is still not eating, that it is active and ready for exploits and raising the dough well, and the most important thing is that such bread has a "raw" leaven and the taste of bread is different.

If you still want to avoid all this necessary "hassle", bring the leaven to the peaks and make the dough on it.

Admin, thanks, I see. While I will bake the yeast and strengthen the leaven, and "this" I will better throw it away.
While you were editing the previous message, you answered me, so I transfer the questions to this: "If I understood correctly from the answers: the bun should also be tracked as in your master classes? It should be the same (accordingly, wheat is like wheat, rzh-psh is like hw -psh)?
And another question (maybe I missed it again ...) if you leave the sourdough overnight before baking, and bake bread in the morning, then you can skip the peak (it needs 5-8 hours), what to do in order to establish this process, calculate about?"

[Angelinka]

Angelinka

That's why I tried to stand with a fotik by the stove so that you could see what kind of bun should be - but correction (harder / softer) is possible depending on your preferences
But always remember - the crumb and the dome of the finished bread depend on the bun.

You need to plan your time and adjust it for all stages of kneading and baking.
You lead the test - it itself can only ferment or escape.
As a rule, people deliberately "incubate" the peak state near the dough so as not to miss something.
I already wrote about counting the time in those links. what gave you - look so that I do not repeat myself with large text

Admin, I have another question. You wrote that: "It is advisable to keep the kefir starter in the refrigerator for 5-10 days (no more),"
It turns out that bread can be baked in at least (3 + 5) 8 days. And I need every day, well, you can every other day. How to be in this case? On that topic "questions and answers" I was like, found only asked almost the same question.Do you need to grow several variants of the same one at once (will be in different cycles of readiness) or start another one?
I also have questions for you about your oven and about the programs in the bread maker. Where is it better to ask?

It is advisable to keep it no more than 8 days - if the starter is in storage and you rarely bake.

If you bake every day, you can have 2-3 leavens and let them rest periodically for several days.

I don't bake bread in a bread maker, I just knead the dough in it. I only bake in the oven.

and let them rest periodically for several days.

Roma how much do you think it is on average

That's what I mean
Does the oven allow you to keep the temperature 30 *? I can put min 50.
And the question is not about baking, but about the dough: there is such a program "homemade dough" I now can't understand what can be done there ???
1st batch 50min!
1st proofing 70 min,
2nd batch 10 sec
2nd proofing 85 min,
3rd batch 10 sec
3rd proofing 110min

And lastly: in your master-classes on koloboks, there are 2 mixes after a while, and in my stove they are together at once, in total, it turns out that 30-40 minutes interferes! This is normal? (and then 2 warm-ups for 10-20 seconds)

AdminThank you very much for your patience! As for the leaven, everything "fell into place", while there are no questions. I will grow this one, oven, observe. Only the more I read, it seems that all the leavens are very similar to each other ...

[Angelinka]

Angelinka,

If there is no such 30 * C mode in the oven, you need to adapt and look for other ways to proof the dough

In the summer you can just melt on the table, in the winter by the radiator, microwave, under a warm blanket.
If you have made it your goal to constantly bake homemade bread, additional is possible. option of accessories:
- electric blanket with heating.
- refrigerator bag (small and large), which consists of thick foam with a tight lid.
If you put bottles with ice in it, you can store the starter culture at a temp. not lower than 10 * С.
If you put bottles with boiling water in it, there you will be heating the dough.
I used such a refrigerator to transport food over long distances.

It is not advisable to knead the dough for a long time - it liquefies too much, this is also bad.
According to the Dough program, I have 11 minutes of pre-kneading - rest 5 minutes - the main kneading 14-16 minutes - this is enough for wheat bread and wheat-rye bun. and sometimes enough for a rye bun.
Then I take out the dough and switch to manual proofing.

My bread maker has such modes (Basic mode, basic mode)
1.preliminary kneading - 11 minutes
2.pause - 40 minutes
3. kneading - 14 minutes
4.first ascent - 26 minutes
5.gas outlet - 20 seconds
6.second ascent - 70 minutes
7.baking - 55 minutes
8. End of baking - 13 minutes.
This is also enough for baking wheat, and wheat-rye kolobok, if the bread is completely baked in a bread machine.

Sourdoughs are both similar - and not alike. We only think so.
It is advisable not to create hybrids or spoil them, this does not lead to good, the result will not slow down to affect baking.
Each of us has his own idea of ​​the activity and maturity of starter cultures, I'm not going to convince anyone of this and insist on my own.
I can only express my opinion on this issue when asked about it.
If you like the bread you bake - so be it!

I don’t presume to judge about the program Homemade dough, I don’t know what cases of homemade baking exist, where 3 proofings of dough are required. If only Easter cake? But there are problems.
Many proofs of yeast and pastry dough are also not good.

Try it - tell the whole world what you did.

And then, I bake bread and knead the dough on my Hitachi bread maker, which has no problems with programs, from which the quality of baking does not suffer. And I tell you and show you the photo, too, from this x \ n - you need to look for a suitable mode on your x \ n, or master your programs according to my principle of baking and kneading.

I won't buy all the x \ n models to make a master class on all of them

Success

Admin you for some reason did not answer my question, or maybe you overlooked
But I still have a question for you (maybe not tactful, I apologize in advance), what is your leaven among the leaders (which do you prefer) and why?