Cooking utensils (pots, pans, lids)

I think Mr. Catlery will not throw a slipper at me if I reassure you about the harmfulness of coatings. They won't harm you. The temperatures in the machines you named are not so high that some nasty thread starts to stand out. The question is different - in the noodles, which are trying to hang on the ears of consumers by individual manufacturers of dishes, trend about their own and toooo their supercoatings. Well, they would only lie to take their dishes, but their purpose is, in the main, to justify the price that has been raised in excess of the measure. This is the whole point. You can take nice and inexpensive normal dishes and not GreenPinch, ugh! in the sense of not steaming.

But in HP, after all, the temperatures are much higher than in MV, so I don't know which manufacturer is credible in terms of coverage. Ceramic in HP Viscount does not seem to understand what, though it is grayish. And the rest of the HP - everywhere they write simply "non-stick", without names. Yunold only with the name of the cover. But I have already turned off the topic - sorry! If anyone can advise on HP coatings - write in a personal, please.

But in HP, after all, the temperatures are much higher than in MV, so I don't know which manufacturer is credible in terms of coverage. Ceramic in HP Viscount does not seem to understand what, though it is grayish. And the rest of the HP - everywhere they write simply "non-stick", without names. Yunold only with the name of the cover. But I have already turned off the topic - sorry! If anyone can advise on HP coatings - write in a personal, please.

Do not worry you so. Wait we will solve this problem. I will not write in a personal message - I think many beginners will do it. So! At what temperature is bread baked? The question is rhetorical and you know the answer. This means that the coating will not suffer, since this requires a much higher temperature. Always take "ceramic" coating as it is written - in quotation marks. What it is - you have already read and forget about it. If you hear the words "ceramic coating" from the seller, then tell him "Gy-gyyy!" and get away from him. Or like this -
Seriously now. The coating at the Panasonic HP bucket is diamond-fluoride. Read what it is here. Very easy to understand. Here's a link: 🔗... After reading, you sigh with relief and smile. The issue with the choice is resolved! And do not be afraid - we are with you! Good luck!

[Kalyusya]

Kalyusya Yes, for 1700 I'm waiting for 29 cm.I looked in a cauldron there, it is a thousand more expensive ..... I'll wait until

Do not worry you so. Wait we will solve this problem. I will not write in a personal message - I think many beginners will do it. So! At what temperature is bread baked? The question is rhetorical and you know the answer. This means that the coating will not suffer, since this requires a much higher temperature. Always take "ceramic" coating as it is written - in quotation marks. What it is - you have already read and forget about it. If you hear the words "ceramic coating" from the seller, then tell him "Gy-gyyy!" and get away from him. Or like this -
Seriously now. The coating at the Panasonic HP bucket is diamond-fluoride. Read what it is here. Very easy to understand. Here's a link: 🔗... After reading, you sigh with relief and smile. The issue is resolved by choice! And do not be afraid - we are with you!

Hmmm, I read this text and, to be honest, I didn't understand anything. It seems like the one who wrote this text implied that this coating is some completely new "diamond-fluoride" which has a different basis than the well-known Teflon. But Teflon is a PTFE-based coating, which is a fluorinated plastic. And it will behave when heated like any other similar. The "diamonds" in this coating are similar to those in Swiss Daimond, see below. 🔗 there, too, every frank blah-blah-blah has been written, but the most important thing is not written that the "patented nanocomposite" is actually PTFE, the same one that is the basis of the Teflon coating. So do not think that there is something completely new in the Panasonic bowl. Just a reinforced PTFE-based non-stick coating, that's it.

Hmmm, I read this text and, to be honest, I didn't understand anything. It seems like the one who wrote this text implied that this coating is some completely new "diamond-fluoride" which has a different basis than the well-known Teflon. But Teflon is a PTFE-based coating, which is a fluorinated plastic. And it will behave when heated like any other similar. The "diamonds" in this coating are similar to those found in Swiss Daimond. 🔗 there, too, every frank blah-blah-blah has been written, but the most important thing is not written that the "patented nanocomposite" is actually PTFE, the same one that is the basis of the Teflon coating. So do not think that there is something completely new in the Panasonic bowl. Just a reinforced PTFE-based non-stick coating, that's it.

So I never said anywhere that this is a super-duper. I just wanted to calm the needlessly agitated person. And I hope I succeeded. And really it was necessary to write in a personal, as requested. Wait, you probably scared the man to death. PTFE in the HP bucket will not do any harm. I'm wrong? Here in your HP, it seems LG you have, what kind of coverage? Olya did not mention him.

I am very grateful to all participants for solving my problem. I have not been able to choose HP for about a year, so I probably won't be able to get scared - I was so annoyed by this selection process. Unfortunately, I am not capable of baking bread in a glass form in the oven, so I have to decide something - that is, choose, as Mr. Catleri said, a normal coating of a well-known manufacturer, and the fact that it is always polytetrafluoroethylene I have learned well. I read somewhere that the two main manufacturers of coatings have made commitments not to use acid in production (I won't write the exact name, but you know what I'm talking about). So maybe it's true? Where can I find their coverage in HP?

Our LG's bowl rotation unit fell apart, at first I wanted to look for a new bowl, but then I just bought a Panasonic 2501. In LG there was some kind of usual noname PTFE coating, which remained intact and I'm actually still alive. So there really is nothing to be afraid of. HP has the most favorable working conditions for a non-stick coating, so even the most simple PTFE coating there will work normally and retain its original non-stick properties for a long time. But "ceramic" can run out within a year of operation and then you will have to buy a new bowl, but it is not cheap. Therefore, for HP bowls, at the moment, PTFE coating is the best option.

I am very grateful to all participants for solving my problem. I have not been able to choose HP for about a year, so I probably won't be able to get scared - I was so annoyed by this selection process. Unfortunately, I am not capable of baking bread in a glass form in the oven, so I have to decide something - that is, choose, as Mr. Catleri said, a normal coating of a well-known manufacturer, and the fact that it is always polytetrafluoroethylene I have learned well. I read somewhere that the two main manufacturers of coatings have made commitments not to use acid in production (I won't write the exact name, but you know what I'm talking about). So maybe it's true? Where can I find their coverage in HP?

The problem is that all HP are mainly from China and very often manufacturers do not indicate which manufacturer the bowl is coated with with nonstick. In addition to European ones, they still have a bunch of their own local APs such as Xylon, etc. By the way, there are several materials dedicated to non-stick and anti-stick manufacturers and trade marks of non-stick coatings.

We have a strange logic and understanding at times!
We are looking for a bucket coating every year and we believe that we will save ourselves from diseases, although for many decades people have been using this coating and manufacturers of good models also go ahead and make a normal coating.

And at the same time, we do not pay attention to foodstuffs at all, we buy calmly and confidently milk and milk in the store, considering that it is of high quality, and we do not think about the fact that milk is drained into one vat from different cows, including those with leukemia and mastitis! It's okay for us! Everything is good, homemade kefir is delicious! Only from what delicious?
It's the same with sausage, meat, flour, and so on .... they stuff antibiotics into the food, and all the chick-bunches!
There are not as many cows in Russia as there is milk and milk on the shelves!
Now there will be a big grain harvest failure in Russia, crop failure due to hot weather - so what kind of flour will we buy and from whom?

Then learn how to bake bread in a glass or metal form, it's not at all difficult. Why choose for so long?

I read somewhere that the two main manufacturers of coatings have made commitments not to use acid in production (I won't write the exact name, but you know what I'm talking about). So maybe it's true? Where can I find their coverage in HP?

According to the manufacturer, Stadler Form has a Daikin coated bucket without this acid. Topic about these stoves HERE

According to the manufacturer, Stadler Form has a Daikin coated bucket without this acid. Topic about these stoves HERE

And if with acid, then what will change? And the twig is cool Here is one of the dialogues
- Put a quick bread on pr 11, 70 minutes 680gr, here is kneading , let's see what happens, in burning fast it did not work at all. But I'm certainly not a supporter of quick breads, 3 tsp of yeast is a lot!
-Irina, I didn't understand: who kneads? HP or what?
-Kaneshna !!! For this she is needed !!!
-Natal, did you not know that in HP she does the whole process from start to finish? There only everything is strictly according to the recipe to lay nada and truncated.
-Killed that I don't know yet? went to the library

Mr. Catlery, I think you shouldn't scare people with China in this particular case.

And the twig is cool Here is one of the dialogues
<...> Mr. Catlery, I think you shouldn't scare people with China in this particular case.

Forgive me, but ... Not everyone is so advanced in technology, and they may not know much. And to scoff at this ... is ugly to say the least.

And if a person is looking for cover without the acid that frightens him, then let him find what he is looking for. Why constantly impose your opinion?
Have you noticed how the activity in this topic has decreased? Not sure why?

Forgive me, but ... Not everyone is so advanced in technology, and they may not know much. And to scoff at this ... is ugly to say the least.
And if a person is looking for cover without the acid that frightens him, then let him find what he is looking for. Why constantly impose your opinion?
Have you noticed how the activity in this topic has decreased? Not sure why?

And I am not mocking at all! It's just funny. At first I also thought that HP was like a fancy oven. And when I found out that it was also kneading, I immediately decided to buy it. Here they helped me choose Panasika. And you say I'm mocking. This is not the case with me.
And I only read the thread until the third page. I'll go through the whole thing, then I'll answer.
As for the imposition of opinions, did you yourself understand what you said? A person asks for an opinion and is answered, not imposed. By the way, on the same branch, do not remember who mentioned that the notorious Daikine peeled off before the kneading blades?

We have a strange logic and understanding at times!
We are looking for a bucket coating every year and we believe that we will save ourselves from diseases, although for many decades people have been using this coating and manufacturers of good models also go ahead and make a normal coating.

And at the same time, we do not pay attention to foodstuffs at all, we buy calmly and confidently milk and milk in the store, considering that it is of high quality, and we do not think about the fact that milk is drained into one vat from different cows, including those with leukemia and mastitis! It's okay for us! Everything is good, homemade kefir is delicious! Only from what delicious?
It's the same with sausage, meat, flour and so on ...stuffed with antibiotics, and all chiki-bunches!
There are not as many cows in Russia as there is milk and milk on the shelves!
Now there will be a big grain harvest failure in Russia, crop failure due to hot weather - so what kind of flour will we buy and from whom?

Then learn how to bake bread in a glass or metal form, it's not at all difficult. Why choose for so long?

Yes, of course it sounded stupid, rather I got to know each other and dreamed about a year, then for quite a long time I was mistakenly fascinated by "ceramics". And everything dragged on so long because I rarely have the opportunity to escape to St. Petersburg (because of the children) and there are always many more important things to do ... And now I’ll go again, but for the Manchu nuts, which I did not take root in the spring, and I I just fell in love with them. About Yunold - are they also collected in China? And the name of their coating does not imply normal quality and a well-known manufacturer?

Mr. Catlery, I think you shouldn't scare people with China in this particular case.

And I don’t scare, I’m just stating a fact now I think at least 80% of all household appliances are from China, and the one that does not come from China has a Chinese package inside, a typical example is the Belarusian Horizon and Atlant. The same HP Panasonic from there, but this does not mean at all that it is bad. Being afraid of China is about the same as being afraid of the end of the world. So that we can do everything without this China

According to the manufacturer, Stadler Form has a Daikin coated bucket without this acid. Topic about these stoves HERE

Yes, I want this stove too. True, here someone wrote that they have a bucket of 3004 aluminum. But I don't understand how this can be - this is the Russian marking of alloys, it seems that it is different in Europe.

Yes, I want this stove too. True, here someone wrote that they have a bucket of 3004 aluminum. But I don't understand how this can be - this is the Russian marking of alloys, it seems that it is different in Europe.

This is another topic ... If you want to discuss it, it is better to follow the link to that topic. But nothing was said about the alloy from which the bucket was made. A representative of Stadler was present on that topic, you can try to ask her.

Yes, I want this stove too. True, here someone wrote that they have a bucket of 3004 aluminum. But I don't understand how this can be - this is the Russian marking of alloys, it seems that it is different in Europe.

Russian grades of food grade aluminum can be found here 🔗 , and 3004 is not a Russian standard.

This is another topic ... If you want to discuss it, it is better to follow the link to that topic. But nothing was said about the alloy from which the bucket was made. A representative of Stadler was present on that topic, you can try to ask her.

I have now read the whole topic on your link, the representative was not there, but they just discovered that there is still a branch that needs to be moved. And about the alloy probably not at all in their topic, someone wrote that they received such a response from their site.

Russian grades of food grade aluminum can be found here 🔗 , and 3004 is not a Russian standard.

I, too, did not find it in food, I decided that it was nonfood Russian, because it said that it was used to make containers for mineral fertilizers. And it means that they can have food, this alloy?

I, too, did not find it in food, I decided that it was nonfood Russian, because it said that it was used to make containers for mineral fertilizers. And it means that they can also have food, this alloy?

Aluminum has a very wide scope of use, but special requirements for impurities are imposed on food-grade aluminum alloys, and ONLY food-grade aluminum grades should be used for MV and HP bowls, so this is not even worth discussing. If chem. analysis will show that this is not so, then this is a clear violation and such products cannot be sold. As for aluminum grades, like stainless steels there are grades in accordance with GOST, but there are analogues in the EN system and other foreign standards. It will not be easy for a non-specialist to understand this.

The problem is that all HPs are mainly from China and very often manufacturers do not indicate which manufacturer the bowl is covered with with nonstick. In addition to European ones, they still have a bunch of their own local APs such as Xylon, etc. By the way, there are several materials dedicated to non-stick and anti-stick manufacturers and trade marks of non-stick coatings.

That's just the point that they themselves can invent and mold this non-stick - when nothing is written. Although on the other hand - and if written, it is still not a 100% guarantee. There we have - non-stick paints, they offer non-stick cloth.

Aluminum has a very wide scope of use, but special requirements for impurities are imposed on food-grade aluminum alloys, and ONLY food-grade aluminum grades should be used for MV and HP bowls, so this is not even worth discussing. If chem. analysis will show that this is not so, then this is a clear violation and such products cannot be sold. As for aluminum grades, like stainless steels there are grades in accordance with GOST, but there are analogues in the EN system and other foreign standards. It will not be easy for a non-specialist to understand this.

Even under coatings only food alloys should be used?

Yes of course! Because the coating is not eternal and can be broken during operation, while food contact with aluminum can occur, and this is already unsafe if the alloy is not food grade.

Yes of course! Because the coating is not eternal and can be broken during operation, while food contact with aluminum can occur, and this is already unsafe if the alloy is not food grade.

Here! And that means the consumer has the right to such information - but it is nowhere to be found! And if you ask - not everyone answers just like Stadler Form, some know what they say - THIS IS OUR SECRET (!!!) We certainly won't buy from such people, but here they give rise to distrust of everyone else.

Yeah - this means you shouldn't scare me with China, I got your topic with a panic about coatings and alloys, right?

* JOKINGLY * No no! A purely personal question about the aforementioned mr.Catlery LLC "Atlant". There is nothing to do with Panasonic and HP. Therefore, I did not endure it for everyone to see.

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, but still, which of the abundance of crockery available at the moment would you advise to use, which pans and which pots? Well, or what you use at home.

Here! And that means the consumer has the right to such information - but it is nowhere to be found! And if you ask - not everyone answers just like Stadler Form, some know what they say - THIS IS OUR SECRET (!!!) We certainly won't buy from such people, but here they give rise to distrust of everyone else.

The fact is that in the jurisdictional household business, in general, everything is not transparent. In Russia, there was an attempt to introduce a standard for providing information to consumers, but in 2004 the Ministry of Justice canceled it without giving any reason. And with the formation of the CU, mandatory hygienic examinations and certification were canceled. It remains only to declare, that is, what the importer or manufacturer declares and believe. Someday there will probably be technical regulations, but at the moment the market is in complete anarchy, if we also take into account PR, advertising, information "blows" that fall from TV screens on our inspired electorate, the picture is surreal. ... Therefore, under the Consumer Protection Law, the consumer, of course, has the right to reliable information about the product and service, but in practice he will not be able to implement it because there are no effective control mechanisms and a clearly established legal obligation of the seller (importer, manufacturer). When sellers say - THIS IS OUR SECRET, it is most likely that they themselves do not know and do not understand what they are selling. A normal manufacturer is always open to information and strives to listen to criticism and opinions of buyers, tries to improve its products, makes sure that the buyer is informed correctly and in full, in this case, there are many times fewer complaints about the product. Well, those who are only interested in profit do not need all this - unnecessary costs and hassle. Therefore, before choosing a product, look not only at the product itself. but also analyze information about him, reviews, business reputation of the brand.With the Internet, it became difficult to hide the pig in a poke

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, but still, which of the abundance of crockery available at the moment would you advise to use, which pans and which pots? Well, or what you use at home.

To choose a meaningful cookware, I advise you to read the materials there are many materials dedicated to different brands, there are also my articles on stainless steel cookware. There is also a section "Consumer's Corner" where you can ask a question about any utensil and read what other customers have answered. 🔗 there is even a section called "which dishes to choose". This resource is quite authoritative and the most balanced in terms of the objectivity of information. Since I am directly related to two dishware brands, I think it is not ethical to tell you which dish is better or worse. Together with I conduct examinations and the results of these examinations are published on this resource. Well, it's up to you to judge for yourself what it is worth paying for and what not. Since the buyer has the right to choose, I have no right to influence in any way on him, my task is to give the most complete and objective information based on ND, and you yourself must choose. It is not difficult to guess what kind of dishes I use at home - this is all that we produce, otherwise, in my opinion, it cannot be. Dishes must be made of high quality, conscientiously, as for myself, then the consumer will be satisfied. I am convinced that in order to make normal dishes, you need to have constant feedback from the consumer. Here on this forum, see a typical example of such a dialogue. 🔗 In general, in addition to stainless steel, I also have a cast-iron frying pan and a cast aluminum pan with AP. Something is more convenient and more customary to do on them, something has long been done on stainless steel. frying pan. Here are only stainless steel pans. in this nomination they have no equal in reliability and durability at the moment.

The fact is that in the jurisdictional household business, in general, everything is not transparent. In Russia, there was an attempt to introduce a standard for providing information to consumers, but in 2004 the Ministry of Justice canceled it without giving any reason. And with the formation of the CU, mandatory hygienic examinations and certification were canceled. It remains only to declare, that is, what the importer or manufacturer declares and believe. Someday there will probably be technical regulations, but at the moment the market is in complete anarchy, if we also take into account PR, advertising, information "blows" that fall from TV screens on our inspired electorate, the picture is surreal. ... Therefore, under the Consumer Protection Law, the consumer, of course, has the right to reliable information about the product and service, but in practice he will not be able to implement it because there are no effective control mechanisms and a clearly established legal obligation of the seller (importer, manufacturer). When sellers say - THIS IS OUR SECRET, it is most likely that they themselves do not know and do not understand what they are selling. A normal manufacturer is always open to information and strives to listen to criticism and opinions of buyers, tries to improve its products, makes sure that the buyer is informed correctly and in full, in this case, there are many times fewer complaints about the product. Well, those who are only interested in profit do not need all this - unnecessary costs and hassle. Therefore, before choosing a product, look not only at the product itself. but also analyze information about him, reviews, business reputation of the brand. With the Internet, it became difficult to hide the pig in a poke

My God, what a horror, but I thought that in the legal sense everything is available, but just all tests and certificates in many cases are lindens for money. As for the SECRET, this is the answer from the manufacturer's website, this is how this story was described.

Yes, alas, there is less order than under Soviet rule Money and a lot of money run the show. We have a dishware business like in the days of the Wild West, but it hasn't come to the shooting yet, and everything else is present in one form or another.

But the Bulgarian is already in battle!

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, Ilya Nikolaevich (if I am not mistaken?), In many respects I share and support your point of view.
But what surprises me for three years now is that for such a good manufacturer, your site is unforgivably primitive! ... And it also works ugly! For example, I just could not view your catalog ... All that I saw is an empty white window with an inactive inscription at the top "Home> KUKHAR Catalog> Top Category" - Unfortunately, this is not the first time this happens - periodically since 2010 I go to your site to get acquainted with the products, and for some reason every time I am "lucky" with some non-working subdirectory.
Is such a site a marketing policy of the enterprise? I hope not to get a positive answer to this question ...
As a consumer, it seems to me that such a poorly designed site does not contribute to your reputation as a serious manufacturer.
Please do not take my words negatively .. I just could not hide my disappointment from the next not entirely successful visit to your "I-no representation".

Yes, there are such temporary difficulties, the catalog is undergoing reconstruction. And indeed, not everything is probably as perfect as on the websites of other dishware firms. And about the "marketing policy", I confess, I only read in books. The website is of course a website, but it seems to me that the reputation of the dishes, first of all, depends on its quality and technical perfection , and not from the beauty and technical perfection of the site about her. The criticism is well deserved and probably after a while we will correct the situation.

On the site 🔗 I read that dishes for household and professional use are distinguished by their steel grade. Can you tell me why they do this? because of the amount of technology different? or for other reasons?

Household crockery sets are made of high-tech stainless steel 18/10 (304 grade)

Professional cookware Kuhar with a capacity of 6 to 20 liters is made of stainless steel 202

On the site 🔗 I read that dishes for household and professional use are distinguished by their steel grade. Can you tell me why they do this? because of the amount of technology different? or for other reasons?

The brand has become the professional series and the series of household utensils differ specifically in the trademark KUKHAR. In general, the choice of material for dishes is a whole separate large topic, I even wrote a special article about this.Here, both purely economic aspects (product price) and the required level of polishing quality (the best result is obtained on 304 steel) and design features (use for a covering capsule bottom of magnetic 430 steel). In addition, much depends on the thickness of the container, its diameter and height (extraction depth). What can be pulled out of 304 steel will not work, for example, from 201 and 202. For a long time now, the handles of the cookware have all steel from 201-1 purely for economic reasons and this does not affect either the quality or the functionality of the product. The technological process of making utensils from 201, 202 and 304 steel is fundamentally no different. But the quality of the final product is different. The 201st steel is characterized by a high level of latent polishing defects (delamination, points, etc.). 202 (NTK D11) is closer in its properties to 304 steel, so it is used for the manufacture of professional cookware, which does not have special requirements and is produced with a matte polish. For example, MAXWELL cookware (Golder Electronics) is produced from NTK D11, and RONDELL cookware from the same vendor, from 304 steel. BOHMANN (Profit) is made from 201 steel, APPETITE (MC Pilot) from JTH21CT. In general, who in what is much The same can be said about the technical characteristics and design features.Therefore, the prices and quality of dishes of these brands differ markedly, although they are all from the same Chinese province of Guangdong.

Yes, there are such temporary difficulties, the catalog is undergoing reconstruction. And really, not everything is probably as perfect as on the websites of other dishware companies

The site is, of course, a site, but it seems to me that the reputation of the dishes, first of all, depends on its quality and technical perfection, and not on the beauty and technical perfection of the site about it. The criticism is well deserved and probably after a while we will correct the situation.

Well, it's up to you - make the site worthy of the quality and technical perfection of the cookware! So that the form, so to speak, matches the content. After all, the site is the "face and clothes" of the company, but "by the clothes .." as you know ... It's a shame, do you understand that the Belarusian and no-no representation is so "none", you look at it and, not being a user of dishes, you think: "If a company cannot organize the ergonomics and work of at least a website, how can it organize production and how high-quality and convenient products will it get?" Why some not the most decent manufacturer can be proud of their site, while our Belarusian one seems to underestimate himself (which is clearly not so - you are proud of your products) and does not pay attention to his site? After all, it is felt that your company is your "child" and "woman", that you really root for her! So give her a nice and comfortable “clothes” so that it becomes immediately clear what she is “worth”! : spruce_up: Now, not after a while. As far as I remember, your site is very unpresentable and inconvenient for a long time, no offense to you be told.

And I confess that I have read about "marketing policy" only in books

Oh, don't flirt. As the head of a company, you somehow have a decisive influence on its entire policy, including marketing.
And the fact that you read smart books is for you!

A beautiful wrapper (site), as a rule, does not imply tasty content (high-quality dishes) and I can give a lot of such examples. About marketing - no coquetry, in the field of tableware production from it there is more negative and direct deception of customers than benefit. When a marketer, and not an engineer, is taken to sculpt dishes, it turns out to be expensive, little functional and technically stupid, I can also give a lot of such examples. And what beautiful commodity mythologies marketers are able to compose, the truth is all according to the standard scenario, as if they write off them from each other. The point is that different brands and manufacturers set different goals for themselves. Few people think about the technical perfection and quality of their products, the priority, as a rule, is his Majesty PROFIT.

A beautiful wrapper (site), as a rule, does not imply tasty content (high-quality dishes) and I can give a lot of such examples.

Let me still disagree with you on this. A beautiful wrapper does not harm the tasty content in any way, but only helps it. Ultimately, this symbiosis brings good dividends to the company and its owner.

About marketing - no coquetry, in the field of tableware production from it there is more negative and direct deception of customers than benefit. When a marketer is taken to sculpt dishes, and not an engineer, it turns out to be expensive, little functional and technically stupid, I can also give a lot of such examples. And what beautiful commodity mythologies marketers are able to compose, the truth is all according to the standard scenario, as if they write off them from each other. The point is that different brands and manufacturers set different goals for themselves. Few people think about the technical perfection and quality of their products, the priority, as a rule, is his Majesty PROFIT.

This position of denial of the positive role of marketing allows unscrupulous companies to seize a huge share of the market, pushing decent manufacturers out of the buying purse. Alas, in the current realities there is a struggle not only between technologies, but also between marketers (and, in my opinion, marketers even to a greater extent). And to deny this is to deliberately push yourself to the margins of the market. Even companies with a long history of existence are forced to take into account the role of the marketing component in competitive struggle, not relying only on "time-proven quality".
A marketer, of course, does not have to sculpt dishes (and any other products), but it is his responsibility to understand what kind of pan and how to present it to the customer. An engineer simply does not know and cannot do this, right? And the engineer will not agree to work for free either.

However, I think there is no need to continue such a discussion, this is already somewhat offtopic.

I was very interested in your wonderful frying pan. When can you see her?

You are in vain for us, unreasonable, denying marketing, you are worried. I will say more, we do not use advertising at all, neither in print nor in television. And, by and large, we have no competitors in our local market. Can you imagine? And at the same time, we have problems not with sales, but with technological and production capabilities of production, personnel and Belarusian currency legislation. Moreover, the state is still urging us on and is trying to set plans - in what way! So what about competition, advanced marketing and other things, this is all true, but for typical importing firms, which are a dime a dozen. They need all this in order to overtake a competitor who is purchased at the same Chinese factory. And here, thanks to the still Soviet high-quality education, an engineer is also a marketer, PR, brand, etc. manager, specialist. in terms of quality, equipment, designer, etc. 10 in 1. It just depends on the depth of penetration into the profession. In addition to the competition between brands and firms, there is also competition between specialists and their levels of professionalism. I don’t want to convince you of anything, but one and the same can be achieved in many ways and using completely different amounts of resources, both material and human. Therefore, combing all the stereotypes of building this or that business is not worth combing.
As for the frying pan, at this stage I am studying the morphology of the surfaces in order to reach the optimal size of the microrelief, and the problem of easy to clean is not completely solved. That is, it takes time to bring everything to mind, to test the technology of mass production. But I am confident that this technology has a good future, an "uncoated" future.

[no]

Well, then I'll come here too ...
Features of perverted marketing "A la capitalism" you described quite accurately. And I meant just normal marketing. Out of respect for you, I will refrain from defining what it is. I somehow forgot that you businessman and thanks to the Soviet, as you say, "high-quality" education, a successful businessman. I sincerely wish you great success in this field! It's true! But businessmen have one "comb". Was, is and will be. This is profit, profit and more profit. Consumers are thought of as sources of income and nothing more. All talk about customer care is limited to the sales opportunity. There is a sale of the Nth quantity of products - everything is bunch! No - we include advertising in the region. The rest, in the vastness of the former Soviet Union, will grind like a thread. Let's expand, then ... But for now, you will manage with a greenpin and a zepter ...
You know, I do not reproach you in the least, and certainly I do not blame you. As a host, you have the right to do what you want. We are unreasonable just lucky that we ended up on this forum, got to know you and learned a lot in dish making. And again, thank you sincerely for the very useful information about the cookware. By the way, it is very intelligible, convincing and interesting. But ... for some reason power other people are offended ...
And it is true that one of the basic laws of business says: "In the business of friends no!"

Yes, Vit, however, there are no friends in business, there are business partners and competitors. I understand you perfectly well, and I felt hurt for the state when the other day I was sawing the "domestic" pot of the trade mark Katun. During the time of Ivan the Terrible there was such a "manufacturer" as a warning to other swindlers, they would have been impaled; in the time of Peter I, they would have been flogged publicly, under Stalin, they would have been shot as a pest. and nothing to all of them for this, apparently, will not. Such is our dishware business - wild, greedy, without a twinge of conscience. Therefore, when I spoke at a conference in Kiev in my report about the ethics of doing dishware business, few of the marketers and brand makers who were present there understood what I was talking about ... But I can say that not everything is so hopeless. Last weekend I was in Pskov and talked to a guy, he is the director of a construction company who builds inexpensive high-quality individual housing (houses) (25 t. R.m. sq.). So over there he said: "I build each house as for myself, because I will also live in the village I built and I want to build them so that later I would not be ashamed to look into the eyes of those people who will buy them from me." ... After this conversation, I realized that not everything is so hopeless in our country, the main thing is that in each industry there are at least a dozen of such guys for whom a good name and conscience are more valuable than a momentary profit.

[mr.Catlery]

I have read your report, Mr. Catlery. Very informative and relevant. I learned about the reaction of your colleagues just now. And it's annoying. I am already silent about false advertising. Instantly I switch the channel with the words: "You care about your pocket, creature! ...", if a smug mug pops like: "We care about you .."
Good luck and strength to you, mr.Catlery and such guys from Pskov!

[Pancake pan ViTESSE, "CHERRY" series]

Pancake pan ViTESSE, "CHERRY" series




Body material - Aluminum
Wall thickness, mm - 4.0
Internal coating - Internal ceramic coating ECO-CERA
Outer Coating - An elegant, high temperature treated color finish
Anti-deformation disk - yes
Bottom - New thickened bottom
Bakelite handles


Guys, well, please explain to me how to use a pancake maker with a ceramic coating, if the dishes with such a coating can't it is not recommended to put on gas / heat without anything ...

Before baking pancakes, I always warm up the frying pan (I never grease it with anything by the way) ...
And here how to be?

And by the way, yes, but no one has such a frying pan in use?

The photo does not seem to be a pancake at all. And this: "23 cm Frying pan, series" CHERRY ""

Pancake here


Special properties of the product Frying pan for pancakes 28 cm, series "CHERRY"

Article - VS-2281
Wall thickness, mm - 2.5
Brown color
Brand - ViTESSE
Heat:
On gas burners
On cast iron burners
On glass ceramic hobs
On halogen cooking zones

The question about heating and baking pancakes also interested me.

And I always first grease with butter while it is still cold, then I heat it, and then I fry the pancakes / pancakes.

Here, absolutely correct actions. The same is true for stainless steel.

You are in vain for us, unreasonable, denying marketing, you are worried. I will say more, we do not use advertising at all, neither in print nor in television. And, by and large, we have no competitors in our local market. Can you imagine? At the same time, our problems are not with sales, but with technological and production capabilities of production, personnel and Belarusian currency legislation. Moreover, the state is still urging us on and is trying to set plans - how! So what about competition, advanced marketing and other things, this is all true, but for typical importing firms, which are a dime a dozen. They need all this in order to overtake a competitor who is purchased at the same Chinese factory. And here, thanks to the still Soviet high-quality education, an engineer is also a marketer, PR, brand, etc. manager, specialist. in terms of quality, equipment, designer, etc. 10 in 1. It just depends on the depth of penetration into the profession. In addition to the competition between brands and firms, there is also competition between specialists and their levels of professionalism. I do not want to convince you of anything, but one and the same can be achieved in many ways and using completely different amounts of resources, both material and human. Therefore, combing all the stereotypes of building this or that business is not worth combing.
As for the frying pan, at this stage I am studying the morphology of the surfaces in order to reach the optimal size of the microrelief, and the problem of easy to clean is not completely solved. That is, it takes time to bring everything to mind, to test the technology of mass production. But I am confident that this technology has a good future, an "uncoated" future.

Oh, yes, I'm not for you, "unreasonable", I'm worried, I, such an egoist, care about us, consumers In particular, about our convenience, if we talk about the site.
And you, whether you like it or not, even without being a typical importer, do not do without marketing in your activities, you just do not use the techniques of "slippery marketing". For what and.
You are, of course, right about the variety of ways to achieve your goal. There are, in fact, a lot of them, and it is best when they do not repeat competitors.
On the competition of specialists: indeed, if the company does not aim at extensive development, it makes no sense to enter into competition between Brands to popularize their own TM, in this case, confirmation of their own professionalism and decency will be enough.

AND NOW ABOUT THE MAIN (for me):
As far as I understand, there is no need to expect a stainless non-stick frying pan to appear in the next few months. And my pan with AP needs to be replaced. Now I think what to buy. Maybe you can advise which manufacturer in Belarus to pay attention to? What can you say about Victoria? How good are these pans and how good are they with their non-stick coating? Yesterday I also saw Victoria's frying pans with a "ceramic" coating. Can you share your opinion about them?
I would be very grateful, because I appreciate your opinion as a professional in my field.

I would hang it on the wall. Handsomely! What? the plates are hung. It will look great! And you are biinchikii ...

Yes, you men, just to laugh at us, poor women !!! ... You cannot understand our desire for beauty in any of its forms, even in frying pans! This is for you, men, it does not matter in which frying pan to burn the eggs for yourself, but for us it is paramount that the frying pan pleases the eyes And you can talk as much as you like about functionality, convenience and practicality, but if the frying pan is ugly, it loses most of its advantages in our eyes

Oh, yes, I'm not for you, "unreasonable", I'm worried, I, such an egoist, care about us, consumers In particular, about our convenience, if we talk about the site.
And you, whether you like it or not, even without being a typical importer, do not do without marketing in your activities, you simply do not use the techniques of "slippery marketing". For what and.
You are, of course, right about the variety of ways to achieve your goal. There are, in fact, a lot of them, and it is best when they do not repeat competitors.
On the competition of specialists: indeed, if the company does not aim at extensive development, it makes no sense to enter into competition between Brands to popularize their own TM, in this case, confirmation of their own professionalism and decency will be enough.

AND NOW ABOUT THE MAIN (for me):
As far as I understand, it is not worth expecting the appearance of a stainless non-stick frying pan in the next few months. And my pan with AP needs to be replaced.Now I think what to buy. Maybe you can advise which manufacturer in Belarus to pay attention to? What can you say about Victoria? How good are these pans and how good are they with their non-stick coating? Yesterday I also saw Victoria's frying pans with a "ceramic" coating. Can you share your opinion about them?
I would be very grateful, because I appreciate your opinion as a professional in my field.

Well, let's assume that we figured out marketing and its impact on our lives
Now about the MAIN thing for you: you understood everything correctly, while you should not hope for a quick appearance on the sale of stainless non-adherent joints. About Victoria I can say that this is a worthy domestic manufacturer, with whom we cooperate and constantly exchange information. I help them to advance to the Russian market, supply them with some equipment, etc. As a specialist, I consider their products in the category of aluminum cookware with a non-stick coating to be one of the best in quality. Victoria is a production of high-quality aluminum casting (see the site victory.by), which initially used the services for coating NMP (Neva metalware). Russian stalaflon based on PTFE was applied there. But for such a class of products as cast aluminum pans, this coating is cheap and unreliable. In turn, NMP sold frying pans cast in Luninets on the Russian market under its own trademark, and in Belarus they were also sold under the trademark "VIC" - Victoria. In addition to NMP, Victoria's workpieces were bought by St. Petersburg Lanscrona (now it is TM VARI), AKZO NOBEL AP coatings were applied to it. About 3 years ago, the NWO managed to screw up so much that they completely ruined the entire batch of frying pans for Victoria. After that, in Victoria they listened to my good advice and began to apply the coatings elsewhere and use the proven European anti-dryers (now it is Whitford). And their products immediately reached a high level of quality. The real hysteria that was provoked by the GreenPan promoters in tandem with the "telemedic" E. Malysheva could not help but affect even the small local Belarusian market on the sales of Victoria, and therefore, after some hesitation, they still released their "ceramic" frying pan with Whitford Fusion in white, practically at the same time it was done at TOP-7, the second Belarusian manufacturer of cast aluminum pans. On my farm, the second generation of Victoria pans with AP based on PTFE is living out its days and all of them have served faithfully for several years. Whitford fusion "ceramic" coating has the same base and the same ideology as Termolon from GreenPan, therefore + is the same. Since the Victoria's pan itself is thicker and has the classic technical characteristics of a solid cast pan, I think that "ceramics", subject to certain rules of use, will last longer on it than on the same GreenPan. Although miracles should not be expected, I think it is 1-1.5 years at best. With a normal PTFE based Whitford, this would be 2.5-3 years of heavy use. That's the whole difference. Neither coating will cause any harm to health, the ecology is the same in one coating, in the other. So you decide for yourself what to choose.

And what can you say about the Ukrainian frying pans Biol (and their coatings)? Is it worth paying attention to them?

And what can you say about the Ukrainian frying pans Biol (and their coatings)? Is it worth paying attention to them?

These pans are of about the same quality level as Victoria, their own good quality casting, proven brand European anti-cookers, imported (Italian) fittings. They apply the coatings themselves in their production (full production cycle). (see site 🔗 ) In general, a manufacturer worthy of consumer attention. BIOL sells the bulk of its products on the Russian market, there are their pans on the Belarusian market.But in Ukraine itself, for some reason, the preferences of buyers are on the side of pseudo-European brands. BIOL uses both Whitford and Weilburger coatings, in particular the ceramic trademark Greblon, i.e. everything regarding the quality and resource of use of the products themselves will be identical to Victoria. The dignity of BIOL's management should include their sober, balanced position in assessing the situation with PTFE and "ceramic" coatings, which was voiced by their representative Albina Stetsenko at a scientific and practical conference held as part of the Tableware exhibition business program in Kiev in early September, in which I also took part.