Dishwasher selection (2)

Oh no, I see that Italy is written. I was surprised at the double hardness setting, sorry.

You can contact the manufacturers directly. Why do they not recommend sprinkling salt with soft water? In the instructions, everything is very clearly written - to what extent - how much salt to pour. Business then! Teach them. And we'll see.

Consider a dishwasher circuit ( 🔗). It can be seen that water always gets to the rocker arms passing through the ion exchanger 9 (i.e. water softener), without exception. And valve 4, depending on the PMM setting for water hardness, passes water into the salt container, from where the salt enters the ion exchanger to regenerate the resin, i.e., to restore its cleaning and softening properties.

No matter how soft the water is, it still contains substances that determine the hardness of the water. Over time, even this soft water will clog the cleaning resin in the exchanger. And such a resin can "die" without the possibility of restoring its properties, which will require replacing the entire ion-exchanger chamber.

Absolutely all PMM manufacturers have recommendations in their instructions that you are writing about. I have it too. But none of these manufacturers indicates how long this ion-exchange resin will actually live in chamber 9 without periodic cleaning ...

No matter how soft the water is, it still contains substances that determine the hardness of the water. Over time, even this soft water will clog the cleaning resin in the exchanger.

I didn't understand the word. I had a lot of cars. At work. And he has been working at home for 7 years. I'm not going to admire her for the rest of my life. And there is no hardness in water. We have very soft water. I told you that the manufacturer himself does not recommend using salt.

And there is no hardness in water. We have very soft water.

Soft water is not synonymous with water without calcium, magnesium, and other components that determine the overall hardness of water. All this is there, but in smaller quantities than in hard water.

We speak different languages. You tell me about how to live according to the charter and order. I will tell you about the nuances not specified by the manufacturer for dishwasher kettles ... Both options suit both parties. I see no reason for a dispute ...

I didn't argue. Just why spend money on salt if the manufacturer himself does not recommend using it in my situation.

[dog gray]

dog gray, the manufacturer does not "advise", but writes "salt is not required" for superfood soft water. Feel the difference. I also have this written, but I just advise you to set the hardness to one, so that the ion-exchange resin is at least sometimes a little washed out. Whether to follow this advice, or "to score on it" - everyone's personal business ...

How, however, subtly you feel the nuances of the language. And for me - so and so. Everything is one.

[dog gray]

dog gray, let's knock on wood so that our PMMs don't break, no matter how right or wrong we exploit them ...

[Kapet]

KapetYou have not proved to me that I am misusing the machine.

And such a resin can "die" without the possibility of restoring its properties, which will require replacing the entire ion-exchanger chamber.

What nonsense are you writing ... Well, yes, your will, think as you want.

this ion-exchange resin will live in chamber 9 without periodic cleaning ...

Will you tell your opponents the chemistry of the process, of course? Or stupidly "don't dry the cat in the microwave"?))

Will you tell your opponents the chemistry of the process, of course?

This is Openel's great secret. But a sane sighted person can easily find it on the Internet ...

Kapet, you haven't proved to me that I am misusing the machine.

I never said that. I just advised. It is your prerogative to take such advice or not.
And yet, this is what the forum is good for, so that no one owes anything to anyone here ...

But a sane sighted person can easily find it on the Internet ...

I'm not too sane. ((I mostly see on the surface only advertising slogans without explaining the essence. This does not suit me - I need understanding. Help? * Held her breath in hope *

[Bijou]

Bijou, no ma'am. You are disingenuous ... I remember that we have already discussed this issue with you ... Let's do without deja vu ...

I remember that we have already discussed this issue with you ...

And, that is, it happened to you? Sorry, I was sure that you mastered the material the first time.
Today I will look for a photo of utensils, which happens due to an inoperative ion exchanger.

[Bijou]

Bijou,

Your sentence, sir?

[Constantin]

I need understanding.

Len, do you really understand all the processes in all your generating sets?

Argue about the same thing from time to time.
I just ran through Temku before buying PM. Not once, almost word for word, disputes about salt.

There are some rules for using machines, why should I know - why? Check, risking losing a very expensive unit for me?

photo of dishes, which happens due to a non-working ion exchanger.

So Constantin and right = salt is needed

salt is needed

Of course you do. The question is for what exactly. But let's wait head of the transport department, let's not get ahead of the events.

Len, do you really understand all the processes in all your generating sets?

Whenever possible, of course, I try to understand. Otherwise, you can fly robustly, or vice versa, get less from the technology of something that it is capable of.

There are some rules for using machines, why should I know - why?

So I cited my instructions as an example. There it is written in Russian in white that I do not need salt - we have very soft water. We only talk about this. If your water is hard, then you need salt.

If your water is hard, then you need salt.

this is certain

but Konstantin, and it looks like Lena, say that salt is needed anywaywhich I, as a rookie, totally agree with

I'm not a rookie. Then why do we measure the level of hardness, why does the manufacturer write to me - salt is not needed? Are all repairmen talking about the dangers of using it in soft water?

Are all repairmen talking about the dangers of using it in soft water?

The master installed the PM for me, he said - salt is necessary, not only to soften the water - primarily for the operation of the machine.

I wonder why - well, what's the difference to those who do not use salt, how the others will pour salt? Well, such battles are about nothing ...
Do not pour cyanide into the cup - no harm

I wonder why - well, what's the difference to those who do not use salt, how the others will pour salt?

Talk about what the instructions say to me. salt is not shown with very soft water. I trust them more than installers. And ours say, St. Petersburg, that it is impossible. That there will be problems with the car. I also have machines at work. And not alone.
Moreover, the husband himself installed. Business then! Not. Well, YOU, of course, as you wish. The conversation just started ...

[Galya]

Galya, Of course, you are confident that you are right - from your experience. mmm

But I am still afraid of self-righteousness. Grunt - and then prove that the salt was not accidentally poured in the car is not cheap.

I wonder why - well, what's the difference to those who do not use salt, how the others will pour salt? Well, such battles are about nothing ...
Do not pour cyanide into the cup - no harm

Well, maybe because not everyone likes such a washing result for some reason?

[Lena]

Lena, so are you for salt or against - to pour with soft water?

[Irsha]

Irsha, Shpakoina! Is there an instruction? There is information there. Explore slowly. Business then! Then tell us. Was the test for stiffness?

Lena, as usual, for turning on the brains.
And she still wants to hear Konstantin's authoritative verdict on a typewriter from his previous photos.

Galya, Of course, you are sure that you are right - from your experience. mmm

Not from experience! And from the instructions

[Galya]

Galya, Dishwasher selection (2) # 3749 the video is very informative, the instruction says the same

our water is soft, the machine is relatively cheap to others - no frills, and various things

poured salt, set the rinse aid to 2, washes normally, without streaks and plaque, mmm, we are friends with her for a week

Did you do the test?

Not from experience! And from the instructions

Well, you followed the instructions, did, so - and from experience, not unfounded advise

Lena, as usual, for turning on the brains.

so for the salt you or not?

[If it says that in my case it is not necessary, I should still, to spite it !?]

Not from experience! And from the instructions
well, you followed the instructions,

The instruction says - use salt depending on the water hardness. The test was done, compared with the table. If it says that in my case it is not necessary, I should still, to spite it !?




I will say this - I always study the instructions first - carefully and thoughtfully.

[Galya]

Galyayes they shouldn't
you are not alone in your experience 🔗

Your experience will still be useful to someone. Who has the same machine and the same instructions.

So are you for salt or not?

The instruction says - use salt depending on the water hardness.

))
And if you wash with tablets (and not powder), then even at medium hardness, you can do without regeneration. Just in case, in order to avoid innuendo, I hint - this is also advice from the instructions. This time - to my car named Bosch.

[Lena]

The instructions are written in the image and likeness for a foreign user, it is possible that they use tablets more than powder + rinse aid + salt.

It's like with the first HP - our ladies used not only instant yeast, but more often not instant yeast at all, but foreign HP were designed for instant yeast, and the programs were appropriate and the norms according to the instructions, too.

So 100% following the instructions, probably just translated, is not always necessary for a Russian user.



Lena, and yet you never answered - Do you pour salt? Always or only if you don't wash with pills?

Here's a good article to argue about? all the same, many DO NOT WANT to sprinkle salt. 🔗

Here's a good article to argue about?

Gee. Maybe try this?

an ion exchanger in which chlorine ions retain metal ions from the water as it passes through the system and prevent them from settling.

Maybe try this?

what for? argue why?
have read, accepted for themselves what we consider necessary. all.


but you never said about your salt

what for? argue why?

Then we came to where I started - such "glossy articles" are very superficial. And certainly not indisputable.

but you never said about your salt

According to the instructions.))

According to the instructions.

why drain sloff, so as not to say about myself personally

Galina the Gray Dog, though zealously defended what she was doing.

I will try to briefly, without bells and whistles, summarize what was said in defense of the use of salt on occasion and without occasion ...

1. Regardless of the settings of the PMM to the level of water hardness, all the water entering the PMM passes through the chamber for its purification and softening.
2. In such a chamber, water is purified and softened using ion-exchange resin.
3. In order to maintain its cleansing and softening properties, this resin requires periodic regeneration.
4. Salt in PMM is required exclusively for the regeneration of the properties of such a resin.For direct water softening purposes, salt itself is not required.
5. Any water, even the softest, contains a certain amount of salts, which inevitably degrade with time the cleaning and softening properties of the resin.
6. The use of salt in PMM under soft water conditions does not in any way affect the "softness" of this water, but only leads to the prevention and maintenance of the properties of the resin in the ion-exchange chamber.
7. No one has the right to prohibit the user of the PMM to be guided exclusively by the manufacturer's recommendation that there is no need to use salt for extremely soft water. And no one has the right to prohibit the PMM user from taking advice on the obligatory use of salt in the PMM, even for super soft water. Worse than the dishwasher itself, and the quality of washing, from this it will not be in any case ...

Your sentence, sir?

Well, honestly, I'm not the ultimate truth. Well, not a bit ... The kettle, like everyone else here ...

I can only suggest options, individually or collectively:
1. Incorrect setting of PMM for water hardness.
2. An excess of low-quality detergent.
3. Lack or poor quality of the rinse aid.
4. Unsuitable arrangement of dishes, plus a shortened washing cycle.
5. Using a homemade detergent or washing machine detergent.
6. The holes in the rocker arms are clogged.
7.xs.

[Kapet]

Kapet, Constantin,

the splashes of disputes about salt may already stop

the splashes of disputes about salt may already stop

It is just necessary here to come to a consensus that there are different opinions about the use of salt for super soft water, and everyone is free to do as he sees fit. And this, IMHO, could really end this dispute.

We have already rubbed this topic repeatedly, salt is needed in St. Petersburg, period. Only twice distillate does not have hardness salts, in St. Petersburg there is not such water in the tap? Disputes on this end!

Disputes on this end!

Where have you been before? We wipe salty snot in couch battles, and you came here, slashed, and everyone calmed down.

[sodium ion]

4. Salt in PMM is required exclusively for the regeneration of the properties of such a resin. For direct water softening purposes, salt itself is not required.

That is, how is it ??
Damn, well, that's how people can broadcast something with a clever look, without even knowing what exactly they are talking about.

Well, it was already told (even with formulas) what exactly sodium ion from the salt, caught on the resin during the regeneration process, goes into the water, being replaced by a calcium ion. Sodium is now dissolved in the washing water. From salt. Or have you personally invented a way to absorb hardness ions without replacing them with sodium? There are also such resins, but not in the dishwasher.

7.xs.

You need to put this in your signature.))
No need to pretend that you don't understand what the conversation is about. You stated that without salt, even with soft water, the ion exchanger dies. I am showing you a photo of the crockery, which has been wrought to death, and somehow I do not see the screams that "here you are, as I said - he is already dead !!"

Because he ain't dead, of course. Though all full of calcium. He in this form can exist as long as you want, the resin does not care whether there is sodium or calcium.
_______________



I just took a picture. We recognize the dishes, right? And where is the calcium on it, if a tightly clogged ion exchanger should die for a long time, and the water is really hard? That's right, he is not there. Because I just bought / poured salt, and the calcium quietly leaked into the sewer, making room for sodium.

No, I understand that the material for assimilation is difficult, but you never know, let it be, maybe someone else will come in handy for logical conclusions.

That is, how is it ??

But like this:
1. Salt is only needed to regenerate the properties of the resin in the ion-exchange container / compartment, when some ions accumulated in the resin in the resin are replaced by others.
2. In PMM, the processes of resin regeneration and water purification / softening are spaced in time.First, the resin is regenerated with salt and its properties are restored. Then everything - they forgot about the salt, it is already gone - she did her dirty deed. Further, softening and purification of the incoming washing water, when the regenerated resin can again capture substances that determine the hardness and purity of the water.

And don't be so nervous here. This is all nonsense, compared to the world revolution and global warming ...

No, I understand that the material for assimilation is difficult, but you never know, let it be, maybe someone else will come in handy for logical conclusions.

Lena, who is it difficult for? Who most of all in the subject asks - why do we need salt?

if you have experience - write in simple language about your experience, without formulas and wording, all literate, who are interested - will find * smart * information on the Web

Here, through complex inventions, I realized what are you pouring salt, the washing result is good, but bad without salt

the topic, of course, would have died long ago if Lenok had not argued with the husbands
Lenus, you are restless,

By the way, water softening and filtering systems for houses / cottages are fundamentally almost no different from such a system in a dishwasher. I have something like this in my basement at home:

In the photo there is a black tank - for regenerating salt, where 2-3 pieces of 25-kg bags of pure evaporated tableted salt fit in at a time. The column contains softening resin.
The difference between the systems is that the frequency of the system regeneration cycles for a large volume of running water depends on the average consumption of cubic meters of water per day, or, more simply, on the number of people served by the system. Such a system is programmed for regular flushing / regeneration, in my case, for example, once every two weeks. The process itself takes about two hours, and takes place at night so that no one interferes with anyone.
In the dishwasher, however, the volumes of water are not at all the same, and regeneration occurs at the beginning of each wash cycle. Setting the PMM to the correct tap water hardness determines how much brine will be injected to regenerate the resin. For hard water, more is required. For soft water - just a little, which saves this salt. If you do not put salt at all, then the regenerating resin will inevitably become clogged with calcium and other things, which is not good for such a resin ...

[Kapet]

Kapetthe water tastes good after such cleaning?
We have a similar one in the country. The water is tasteless. Some kind of bitter, for delicious tea we bring from Moscow, from the tap (there is a separate tap on the sink, the Favorite filter)
But there is no plaque on the shower doors.

And mush the salt in bags pours into this system, once a week it regenerates.