Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

I bake every day, feed the leaven every day.

Is the dough made from wheat flour?

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 2:29 pm

fed her to wheat

That is, can we already assume that the leaven is wheat? ) Or rye roots distinguish it from the original wheat?

[rs]

rs, We discuss ferments here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=172.0

Is the dough made from wheat flour?

Yes, from first grade wheat. I’m a southerner, we don’t like rye very much.
The sourdough is now also considered wheat.

......

I deeply understand your doubts. I also wanted hp for Easter cakes, and for exotic sweets, etc.
I'll tell you my epic.
First I settled on the programmable Delongy 125s. A wonderful bread maker, but programming is limited to 30 degrees for proofing, that is, only fermentation is very warm there. And - the most important thing that upset - baking !!!
I was guided by bread from friends from Panasonic - in comparison with it, the crusts were of a completely different quality.

Ps. I didn't want to bother with the oven.

Then I bought a Panasonic 2501 and got a bunch of my favorite recipes with baked goods on the machine and with the crusts I wanted. But ... my automatic))) preferences are almost all yeast))).

Then I got rid of DeLonga, which I changed to the programmable Brand.
In the brand, all stages can be programmed with a choice of time and temperature. In my opinion, there is no alternative to it on the market now. This is all programmable and budgetary (now the price has increased, like everything else). It is in Brand that the entire cycle can be programmed without combining modes.

But baking in Brand, according to my taste, does not reach the Panasonic, the assembly is weaker, I'm afraid to drive this hp in the tail and into the mane. I treat her carefully.
Therefore, two hp are relevant for me. One complements the other.

I love Panasonic. For me, this is a bread maker for every day. But I do not delight in it. Recipes tested on the forum without any combination))) in an automatic almost version. I drive in the tail and in the mane))) But I make yeast recipes from our forum.

Now about the dangers of yeast. Industrial yeast is a pure culture of microorganisms. Your sourdough yeast is the home of various microorganisms. That's the whole difference.
It is quite another matter what goes there as additives in bread.

Now see why sourdough bread tastes better and why it is "supposedly healthier."

As a rule, the starter culture from mixed cultures of microorganisms does not have a lifting force, like a pure cultured yeast culture, and it also contains additional acids and enzymes that have already accumulated during the growth of the starter culture. After all, such a leaven is, roughly speaking, something natural, which has fermented for a long, long time and accumulated additional acids.
Due to its weak lifting force, bread ferments longer - various acids and enzymes accumulate in it even more.
It is these acids and enzymes that give the remarkable effect of "usefulness" and the difference in taste.
In fact ... if you take a microscopic amount of industrial yeast and ferment the dough longer or make only sponge, add healthy products, like sour milk, for example, then you get closer to the same "harmless" effect.
Panasonic is a wonderful oven, long modes, close to home baking. I see no harm from yeast bread cooked in it)))

In the industrial version, accelerated methods are used.This roughly means fast fermentation with artificial additions of acids and enzymes, and not getting them naturally by long fermentation of the dough.
That is, the use of starter cultures or simply reducing the amount of industrial yeast in the direction of increasing the fermentation of the dough is the same way to the usefulness of homemade bread.

Added on Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 8:09 PM

I am now a stranger in this topic. I changed my Panasonic 2501 to an old 253 model because of the presence of Italian bread in it. Well, I like fully automatic pastries with crusts like Panasonic

If it works out, I'll get a bourgeois Panasonic with its bunch of modes. I want this now

[2512]

If it works out, I'll get a bourgeois Panasonic with its bunch of modes. I want this now

In the SD-ZB model2512KXE (for Europe) - 33 programs and there is an innovation - the preparation of a starter culture, but not natural as we derive ourselves here, but a yeast-based starter culture There is a program for the preparation of a yeast culture in 2 hours 10 minutes, there is a program for preparation of a starter in 24 hours. The mode for baking bread with this sourdough is only 5 hours. Along the way, it's all "Low-yeast", as in stoves for the CIS. So I don’t understand, but most likely I don’t know how they call and distinguish the leaven and how exactly it is different / called with us. I have already read several times that they make yeast leaven in factories. What then do we grow without yeast?

But today I baked a sourdough (another))) harmful-useful ... depends on the points of view ... of users .. ... in my 2501 ... I also adore my 2501 ... beautiful and clever ...
For the first time today I tried to bake not in French, but in Rye with a delay :-) at 2.5 hours ... I did not take out the scapula. I fed the sourdough in the morning, gave it 1.5 hours to rise in a warm place ... and set off. I put everything in a prescription bucket. I made a batch on Pelmeni, turned it off and put it on "Rye" with a delay of 2.5 hours, an ordinary spatula, not a comb ... and went to work ...
I came, and around the house ... THE FRAGRANCE OF FRESH-BAKED bread ... Mom is darAgai !!!! Patience was only enough for an hour ...
Already grunted a crust ...

... What then do we grow without yeast?

bread from prehistoric times must be loosened. Soda, ammonium, yeast are used as leavening agents.
All. Nothing exists anymore. I do not take loosening by physical methods: such as carbon dioxide under pressure)))

If not soda and ammonium, then only Yeast.
But they are different. Yeast is a microorganism. Thousands of species. Some on grapes, others in kefir, etc.
Each species has its own lift and name. Through experiments, mankind chose the strongest species for production, learned to grow them in the best conditions, preserve and ... sell. This is an industrial yeast. Cultured culture of microorganisms with the best lifting force, which gives a stable result under certain conditions of fermentation. Therefore, their behavior can be predicted in production.
It has been studied and stable.

And thousands more. Type of kefir yeast. You can also make bread on them.
Now if you take a bunch of yeast microbes, then this is Yeast.
And if you take and knead flour + water + kefir yeast and ferment in a certain way = we get SQUARE.

The difference will be that there will be more yeast: 1. they will multiply.
2. If it is wrong to ferment, then left yeast will also appear, which was in the minority, but managed to survive
3. Acids and enzymes will accumulate as a result of chemical reactions during dough fermentation.

Sourdough = yeast (often of different cultures, depending on the composition of the yeast community that is introduced at the beginning) in the most varied quantities !!! + acids and enzymes !!!! - that is, a flavoring dressing.

If there is no yeast in the Sourdough, it will not raise the bread, it will only add flavor.

If the starter is made using industrial yeast, then it should be understood as follows:
a minimum of industrial yeast is taken, which after reproduction will give its stable version of the lifting force, they are placed in a nutrient medium with the presence - possibly - of other yeast microorganisms, and acids and enzymes will be added as a result of fermentation.

That is, if you bought not a Yeast in a box, but a yeast suspension from industrial yeast + some other kind of yeast + various acids = your starter culture. Only because of the first component can its lifting force be predicted and adjusted to the bread maker's mode in the instructions.

Added Thursday 07 Apr 2016 09:21 PM

But today I baked a sourdough (next))) harmful-useful ... depends on the points of ..

you make a Sourdough with good buoyancy. She rolls for bread maker mode without dancing with tambourines.
Therefore, to speak in general about the possibility of using the starter variant as a whole is incorrect.

In your case, it is relevant to completely give the recipe for the preparation of your version of a win-win Starter))) Otherwise, when using a different starter with a different composition and lifting force, the result may become completely different.

Sourdough bread can be harmful, like yeast bread, only if it is under-mixed, under-fermented and under-baked
Or, in parallel with the leaven, stuff chemical flavor improvers

Added Thursday 07 Apr 2016 09:43 PM

Yes .. and this play on words "yeast-free", "low-yeast" is misleading.
You understand, to raise the dough from 50 grams of flour with 3 grams of butter, you need to hard, for example, 50,000 organisms of industrial yeast or 5,000,000,000,000 kefir yeast (figures from the bulldozer. Just kefir microbes will need much more - they loosen up less)
Therefore, if you introduce instead of 50,000 microbes, only 500 at the beginning, you will have to multiply them to 50,000.
Otherwise, the bread will not rise. That is, ferment to a minimum of 50,000 microbes.
The less was added at first, the longer it takes to ferment or raise the temperature during fermentation.
But at the end of the test there should be 50,000 at least))) otherwise it will be a pancake.

That is, with a small introduction of yeast at the beginning - we increase the fermentation time, that is, we allow acids and enzymes to accumulate longer - we change the taste. BUT .... the number of yeast at the end of the process will be almost the same ... otherwise there will be no one to loosen it all.

Therefore, only soda bread can be "yeast-free".

In your case, it is relevant to fully give the recipe for the preparation of exactly your version of a win-win Starter)))

I join))

It is not a fact that when you repeat the recipe, the leaven will turn out to be just as strong. It's kind of a lottery.

In your case, it is relevant to fully give the recipe for the preparation of exactly your version of a win-win Starter)))

THIS option has long been given without me ... I have Eternal leaven ...
I posted a photo of the bread in order to show that Panasonic 2501 is able to BAKE sourdough bread without a DROP of industrial yeast :-) :-) :-)
and everything ... For no one is a reproach, and NOT for the sake of disputes ... ..
By the way, I have NOTHING against yeast, and I often bake on them too.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, I don’t understand why you have started the yeast-yeast-free polemic here?
The man asked - Can I have a starter at Panasonic?
He was told - You can.
And they offered options on how to do it. And that's it ...

It is not a fact that when you repeat the recipe, the leaven will turn out to be just as strong. It's kind of a lottery.

This recipe is not mine, but from our website :-), many have already baked on it ... And it turned out well not for the first time, and I hope NOT FOR THE LAST!
BUT THE MOOD TO SHARE WAS LOST.
Thanks for attention....
I do not quite understand, why is there such a CAREFULLY-UNFRIENDLY ATTITUDE to my bread ??? Excuse me, friends, but isn't this why we gathered here to exchange baking experience at Panasonic?

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 10:06 PM

fffuntic, I don’t understand why you started the yeast-yeast-free polemic here?
The man asked - Can I have a starter at Panasonic?
He was told - You can.
And they offered options on how to do it. And that's it ...

I fully support ...

Girls, Peace, friendship, chewing gum (c)

[Margarita]

Margarita, I meant the sourdough recipe. That is, with a new attempt to bring out the leaven, even the same person gets a leaven with new properties every time. I often leave for a long time. I dried my rye last year before leaving. On my return, some of the leaven was refreshed and it was normal, very strong and good. She went to NG again, eliminated the fresh sourdough (she didn't just leave it, but put it all into the dough). On my return from the same batch of dried sourdough, some of it was refreshed and now I can only bake with it in the company of yeast. She doesn't want to raise the dough. However, soon I will leave again and again I will then refresh from the dried one a year ago.

[mamusi]

Girls, where did you get the idea that I mean something unfriendly.
Chel says: "I don't have a bread machine, but I want to make sourdough bread in a bread machine, but I'm afraid to be disappointed because of dancing with tambourines around it. And I am convinced that sourdough is better than yeast. Therefore, I don’t know if I need a bread machine at all."
So I tried to explain in detail what can be expected from Panasonic. That you can enjoy yourself if you choose the right recipes and leavens, or you can get disappointed if you plan to bake everything without dancing with tambourines.
So that later he would not be offended that they promised everything, but it does not work out. Moreover, Panasonic is not at all cheap now if you buy a new model.
So that a person understands what to expect from a bread machine, and also understands that sourdough bread may or may not work out, and also does not look down on the wonderful yeast bread in Panasonic.

If I accidentally offended, then I apologize.

mamusi, just imagine. That will make any person! left his leaven and he will not get bread, but he will be offended: after all, mamusi promised ... that everything would be fine, but he did not succeed.
That is why I am writing - since mamusi succeeded, then we must do all one to one like mamusi, otherwise there may be a puncture.

And personally, in my eyes, you, mamusi, are a great clever girl who successfully and without unnecessary hassle learned how to make sourdough bread in Panasonic. But to repeat your experience you need to make an effort, especially for a beginner.

That will make any person! left his leaven and he will not get bread, but he will be offended: after all, mamusi promised ... that everything would be fine, but he did not succeed.

It didn't work, so what. How many of them did not work There was never a release.
With experience, everything comes, you have to take it and do it. What I did a year ago, when I just started (and was madly happy with the result), and that
which now turns out the difference is palpable.
The road will be mastered by the walking one.

There are those on Avito who have never made friends with bread makers. And they even give away Panasonic.
There are few of them, but they are the same. And since a person has personally addressed us, then, in theory, it is necessary to describe the situation to him in more detail so that disappointment and resentment do not arise. All the pros and all the cons.
If a person intends to focus on different types of sourdough bread, then he must understand how difficult this can be in an automatic bread maker.
Maybe he doesn't want to go this long road at all if it is long))))

Well, I think that NOW, we have outlined the situation for him "from all sides" ... with your PRACTICAL and my RAINBOW ...
Then let him decide for himself ... and he goes to the Starter Temka, and reads more attentively ...
And HP will decide to buy anyway, I think ... this is INTRIGA, curiosity and new experience ...
So GOOD LUCK to him with a choice, and we all have good loaves!

There are those on Avito who never made friends with bread makers

I have a friend like that. I tried it twice, here he is Klyokly and that's it.
How many times did she offer to come and bake together. Did not happen.
I understand that I just don't want to. And how she dissuaded me from buying, and how she did not believe that I bake every day.
So I'm visiting her with bread now, yeah ... they sweep away earlier than other dishes.
And her husband always looks sideways at her so expressively. Therefore, the stove is not sold.

For me, when they ask: is it possible to bake complex breads in KhP absolutely lazily - like a red rag for a bull.
Still, serious baking is not for the lazy. The bread maker is an assistant, but not a housekeeper

Therefore, when here, you girls, show beautiful sourdough bread, I perfectly understand how much skill, practice and effort is behind this. This is not easy.
If a person is lazy, then he needs to pass by.

In different recipes, when making bread with sourdough with yeast, modes are selected where Basic, where French.

What is the difference between these modes for Panasonic HP, in particular when baking such bread?

What are the general considerations for choosing each of these modes?

[rs]

is it possible to bake complex breads absolutely lazily in HP - like a red rag for a bull

That's it, now they've raised a red rag for me too.
rs, Take the instructions and read. Not too lazy to do this either. Everything is written there very clearly, schoolchildren cope with me.
Do we really have to retell?

[rs]

That's it, now they've raised a red rag for me too.
rs, Take the instructions and read. Not too lazy to do this either. Everything is written there very clearly, schoolchildren cope with me.
Do we really have to retell?

The question arises precisely after reading the instructions - look:

phase of the Main
Temperature equalization: 30 min - 60 min
KIND: 15-30 min
RISE: 1 hour 50 min - 2 hours 20 min
BAKING: 50–55 mins
Total: 4 hours - 4 hours 5 minutes
phase of French
Temperature equalization: 40 min - 2 hours 5 min
Kneading: 10–20 min
RISE: 2 hours 45 minutes - 4 hours 10 minutes
BAKING: 55 min
Total: 6 hours

The instruction does not contain any indications of temperature conditions in each of the phases.
It's not clear what happens to the temperature in Temperature Equalization - are there heating, no?
How many strokes and proofs are in the Rise for each of the modes? Is there a temperature difference in Basic and French?

After reading the Internet, we can assume that the difference is both quantitative and temperature.

I would like to understand the logic of each of these two modes - what is the general meaningful difference between the Main and French? The instruction, unfortunately, does not contain an answer to this question.

For example, in one recipe the mode is French, but during the discussion someone said that after replacing it with Basic, the bread became noticeably better. I would like to understand what features of each of the modes can cause this?

When does it make sense to choose Basic and when French?

ps
Not, well, of course, you can try the modes by typing, but firstly, reading the instructions here has nothing to do with it), and, secondly, I would still like to make it more meaningful.)

The instruction does not contain any indications of temperature conditions in each of the phases.
It's not clear what happens to the temperature in Temperature Equalization - are there heating, no?
How many strokes and proofs are in the Rise for each of the modes? Is there a temperature difference in Basic and French?

What for? This HP is a machine gun! The company does not provide for any other use, everything else is at your own peril and risk! Some information is available only for service centers!

What for? This HP is a machine gun! The company does not provide for any other use, everything else is at your own peril and risk! Some information is available only for service centers!

Well, if you use the recipes from the instructions, there are no questions. The truth is almost ALL)) this site is devoted to the discussion of recipes other than the standard ones for bread makers. Are their authors guided by something when choosing one or another mode - Basic or French, for example? Not from the bulldozer, right? ))

They are guided by experience.They bake, try, like, dislike.
Theory is one thing; it cannot replace practice.

I believe that the EXPERIENCE acquired in working with existing devices. IMHO

They are guided by experience. They bake, try, like, dislike.
Theory is one thing; it cannot replace practice.

Who would argue))

But practice without theory (that is, understanding) is also not to everyone's liking))

But practice without theory (that is, understanding) is also not to everyone's liking))

In your case, just the theory of surplus, you drowned in it ...

But how did Temka liven up
I don't understand, honestly, people are kidding or serious

Julia, no words! It seems, on the one hand, not stupid judgments, but on the other, how he mocks ...

[marinastom]

marinastom, Marin, I think ... we must leave him alone with his thoughts - let him decide on something himself ... We all went through this!
We will not be able to make a choice for someone else ...
We believe that HP Panasonic in the house is NECESSARY !!!

[marinastom]

marinastom, Marina, yes they are trolls so naughty

How great it is that there is much more than trolls! Hurray for us!

Is it a common thing that after baking (French mode) in the finished bread at the bottom-side there is a sufficiently large spot of flour, about 6 centimeters in size and a couple of millimeters deep? Or did something go wrong?

What is the best way to get the spatula out of the finished bread (only its black circle is visible in the bottom of the bread)? The simplest thing to ask is to cut the bread in half across, so that the cut goes through the shoulder blade. But the spatula is covered with Teflon (as there - "diamond-fluoride") - each time the knife will touch this wonderful coating, gradually scratching it more and more - it's a pity for the spatula. Who pulls out the scapula and how?

Does the spatula always remain completely in the bread? Somewhere there was a mention that in starter recipes the scapula always remains. Does it really depend on the recipe to stay in the bread or not?

[rs]

rs,

Is it a common thing that when baking (French mode) a sufficiently large spot of flour remains in the bottom-side of the finished bread, about 6 centimeters in size and a couple of millimeters deep?

When kneading in the French mode, I always make sure that all the flour interferes with the dough (it is in this mode that I often have flour on the walls). I use a soft silicone spatula for this.

Does the spatula always remain completely in the bread?

During the year of using the stove, this happened only a couple of times in dense bread (rye). When I was choosing the oven, I read in the reviews that just in Panasonic the scapula does not remain in the dough.

During the year of using the stove, this happened only a couple of times in dense bread (rye). When I was choosing the oven, I read in the reviews that just in Panasonic the scapula does not remain in the dough.

Clear. But, generally speaking, it is not clear - how can it not remain in bread at all? If the finished bread lies at the bottom, how does the spatula, being on the axis, not end up in the bread?

[Sergei]

Sergei, congratulations on your purchase!

About the shoulder blade: The dough gets into the gap between the shoulder blade and the pin on which it is put on, and it is baked there during baking. Since the pin is not covered with Teflon, the dough is baked to it tightly. The stirrer is positioned low enough to leave a thin crust of finished bread underneath. Ready bread must be shaken out of the bucket as soon as it is baked!
As a result, a well-adhered spatula easily breaks through a fresh thin crust and remains in the bucket.
If the bread remains in the bucket for some time after being cooked, then under the influence of evaporating moisture, the baked layer holding the spatula softens and when shaken out, it can already be shaken out along with the bread.

As long as the HP is new, the scapula often remains in the bread, but over time it increasingly remains in the bucket. As I understand it

CHECK each time, there is a high risk of cutting the bread with a spatula inside. Of course, the scapula is so easy to knock, but even if it is kotsan, it will not peel off and will work normally. This is so that there are no fatal disorders or panic.

[Helpful hints and help in baking bread]

Clear. But, generally speaking, it is not clear - how can it not remain in bread at all? If the finished bread lies at the bottom, how does the spatula, being on the axis, not end up in the bread?

How and when to remove the scoop from dough or bread?
Helpful hints and help in baking bread
CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING"

Clear. But, generally speaking, it is not clear - how can it not remain in bread at all? If the finished bread lies at the bottom, how does the spatula, being on the axis, not end up in the bread?

1. At first, as a beginner, follow the rule of the kolobok, trying to move towards the maximum humidity, avoiding excessive density.
Perhaps you had a dry, dense dough and therefore what Natalia indicated above did not happen.
Dense dough - two drawbacks: flour does not interfere well and perhaps therefore bald spots of flour on the finished bread. The shoulder blade is baked in bread.
And yet ... HP should ideally mix the gluten, if the dough is dense, this will not happen.
Liquid dough is the same picture, hp will not cope with kneading and the dome will fail during baking.
Panasonic is a good oven and you will get a delicious result with many dough errors. But the tasty result is not perfect yet.
Ideal kolobok - perfect kneading and kneading at xn Soft, plastic, very beautiful (like living) by the end of kneading.
This means no more and no less liquid. Watch the video, photo - experiment, finally.

I would also advise at least using a sieve-mug to fluff the flour into a bucket so that it is not overly compacted. Two reasons: oxygenation and better wetting when kneading the dough.

2. Take care of the spatula and bucket. Do not pull the scapula out with the glands.
If there is no prejudice to margarine - then buy plastic !!! light margarine in olive oil and a thin layer, try to lubricate the spatula, since this problem has arisen.
Sunflower oil will give a slightly worse sliding effect.

3. Shake the bread out of the bucket. Ideally, immediately after baking, the bucket is removed and placed on the net to cool. I shake out after 10-15 minutes (to cool down a little), but first try shaking out right away.
The bucket is turned over and the bread is shaken out.
Well, cut at least after cooling.

[rs]

rs, well, thank God, Sergei, decided! Congratulations!
In vain I could not resist, I immediately began with the Frenchman. It was necessary to bake the simplest bread on the Main.
The spatula is very easy to remove with a sushi stick.

Added Sunday 10 Apr 2016 07:47 AM

What kind of stove did you take?

[from the dough.]

I always pull out more from the dough.
Immediately after the last stirring. It makes no difference - in the machine or with manual control. I pulled the bucket out of the HP, laid it on its side, the dough slid. On the reverse side of the bucket, he took the drive drive and turned it until the dough blades were exposed. And he took it out with his hand, without fancy.
Then he put the bucket back. If necessary, spoon trimmed without fanaticism.

[Countryman]

Countryman, but what about the routines provided by the programs?

Panasonic has invented and patented two solutions against jamming. Wedge-shaped narrowing, or, as it were, sharpening the blade at the bottom. The lock that forms the pin-blade at the extreme point, thanks to the special shape of the shaft and the hole of the blade.

[Zest]

(it is in this mode that I often have flour on the walls)

On the sides of a bucket or bread? Just soiled with flour or thick enough flour cakes on the surface of the bread, as in my case?

this happened only a couple of times in dense bread (rye).

Yes, my bread turned out to be dense - apparently this is the case.

Sergey, congratulations on your purchase!

Thank you!:)

Dense dough - two drawbacks: flour does not interfere well and perhaps therefore bald spots of flour on the finished bread. The shoulder blade is baked in bread.

Yes, probably my case.

I would also advise you to fluff flour into a bucket with a sieve mug,

It was done :)

rs, well, thank God, Sergei, decided! Congratulations!

So thanks to the answers here, the identification process went incredibly easy!
Stove - 2511.

In vain I could not resist, I immediately began with the Frenchman. It was necessary to bake the simplest bread on the Main.

mmm ... What can I say. Precisely, that he could not resist. But French instead of Basic isn't all deviations from the right beginner's path.
The bread was sourdough on a recipe from Zest with the addition of yeast (after all). Moreover, it so happened that by the time of baking, the sourdough had already passed the peak of activity after feeding and since, naturally, it was completely impossible to wait for the next day - a delayed mode was set for the night (naturally, without any control of the bun)

But in the morning, when he saw the bread, he held his jaw with his hand - I have not seen this anywhere on the photos!)) (The photos did not work - the story became impoverished at once).
The bread was ... how can I describe it ... half an ice cream in a whole waffle cup: so neatly along the walls a test cup a couple of millimeters thick with a height of 12-15 centimeters and inside it in the depth ... - bread, with the height of the sides 5 cm and the peak of the cracked top 8 cm.

After cooling down, the bread turned out: 1) baked, 2) dense, but not sticky, 3) sour, 4) not high. The result is that almost everything is eaten.

My debriefing:
1) The bread is donkey (although, not a single photo of settled breads found on the Internet is similar to my miracle) - due to the stagnant leaven. It turns out that the sourdough has already stood and before being placed in the bucket, plus the delayed start aggravated the situation. Maybe, by the way, the external signs of my handsome man (half-frozen in a whole glass) speak of something else?
2) A lump of flour - perhaps the flour needs to be concentrated with a slide towards the center? Well, plus, of course, a less dense dough should come out.
3) If there are good automatic machines in Panasonic (on which the majority agree) - it makes sense to check the kolobok, probably for a new type of flour. By the way, Panasonic's instructions do not even imply any rules for koloboks - put as much as is written and take out good bread :)

What can you say about my analysis?

Added Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 09:48 AM

Panasonic has invented and patented two solutions against jamming. Wedge-shaped narrowing, or, as it were, sharpening the blade at the bottom. The lock that forms the pin-blade at the extreme point, thanks to the special shape of the shaft and the hole of the blade.

Well, apparently, really - the sharpening did not break through the dense dough.

--

Would love to hear recipe tips https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.180 - no one has responded there yet

[proven standard formulations]

It is difficult to say something without a photo of bread and crumb. The French regime is the longest. Therefore, you need to be careful about yeast (as well as leaven). It can easily be over-spreading, which means a fallen roof and a "tired" crumb. Panasonic is an automatic machine, but no one has yet canceled the laws of baking. If you fill up an increased amount of yeast, both pure and leavened, the bread will end up.

A Panasonic with minor sins, like "+" or "-" a little flour will cope, but if you transfer or undermine the yeast coarsely or screw it up a lot with water, you will immediately notice it on bread.

With a normal balanced amount of ingredients, there is no need to concentrate flour with a slide: the bun itself must collect everything during kneading, and the spatula should not get stuck in the bread.

Once you are faced with a problem that you would like to eliminate in order to use your individual recipe on the machine later, then
you need to check and find where the puncture is: make sure that you are doing the right bun - that is, whether or not you need to increase the liquid in your case. If everything is in order with the liquid - see if the dough is overstretched, that is, balance the leaven + yeast. Although sourdough can be unpredictable all the time in terms of raising the dough.
You have two ways:
without looking at random to change something in the recipe and hope that they have miraculously guessed, or find the reason consciously and eliminate it.

You can generally avoid all dances with tambourines and learning the "kolobok rule" if you use proven standard formulations with a minimum of unpredictable ingredients (like starter cultures with unknown lift and custom flours). It is important to use the ingredients that the majority of forum participants have already used. Do as they do and everything will work out without supervision of the bread maker.
If it is a leaven, then its behavior should be akin to ordinary yeast, and the flour should be trick-free with good gluten, that is, standard.

Added Sunday, Apr 10, 2016 10:31 AM

In regards to the recipe ... you have chosen bread that a beginner is unlikely to make on the machine.
In bread, the water / flour ratio does not yet include all the water. Part of the water is meant there with leaven. The sourdough itself there should be such as to fit the HP mode. Two fundamental points: the rise of the dough and the moisture content of the dough there must be selected by yourself. You should read Temko there, there is a lot of discussion.
The recipe is non-standard. Requires experience and supervision.

The recipe is non-standard. Requires experience and supervision.

Probably yes.
But I won over the brevity of the description of the recipe, the lack of nuances in the description and the phrase in it "We put the products in the bucket in the order recommended by the manufacturer, but so that the leaven is between the flour and water, we choose the French Bread Program and go to our own business"

Added Sunday 10 Apr 2016 11:39 am

, which means a fallen roof and a "tired" crumb.

Yes, it is difficult to explain without a photo - but it does not look like bread with a fallen roof, which can be seen on the Internet. Bread in proportions as usual with a convex, but cracked roof - and this, in principle, outwardly proportional and regular bread sits in a rectangular crispy bucket-shaped bread cup - the bread in this "ice cream waffle cup" reaches the middle of the cup height. In general, I have not seen such phot of bread. And the glass was delicious - just like ice cream!

[Olga]

Olga, So just after the last workout and take out. It is enough to detect the time of kneading once or twice (there are only two options).
And then everything will be clear right away from the moment the first mixing begins. Then I put a timer in my mobile for the calculated time, I Sukachev at the right moment about "the month of May" will sing and immediately go to take out the mixer.
True, in the machine I have rarely done the last three years. Only in the country, when other things are up to the throat. Want here butter recipe? Only yesterday I told about it. (I don't expose recipes separately here). You can bake it in HP too. Remove the stirrer, wait 30-40 minutes to rise and 45 minutes for baking ...

Bread in proportions as usual with a convex but cracked roof

There was not enough liquid.

There was not enough liquid.

How can you determine by the type of lack of liquid during kneading? Lack of flour - a thin, sticky dough, but is there any obvious signs of a lack of water during kneading?