Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

It is possible without a dispenser. IMHO
It only takes my place ...

Probably, small loaves can be used in KhP

In Panasonic, you can also small ones from 300g in flour, I bake myself according to the recipe in 310g

I sometimes bake 200-250 grams of flour in a purchased small mold.

Why is 400 g of flour indicated in the "French" mode in the recipe (for Panasonic)? And 500 g will not be baked? What sizes do you print on this mode?

It will be baked, I often do this.
Just increase the amount of water proportionally. Standard:
For 500 g of flour, 300 - 320 g of liquid, depending on the moisture content of the flour.
Everything else is as usual - salt, sugar, oil.

Can you please tell me in what mode sourdough bread is baked? Is one mode "put-all-you-need-get-ate" enough or during cooking you need to come to HP from time to time to combine modes?

Added Wednesday, 06 Apr 2016 7:05 PM

Is it possible to bake yeast-free (leavened) bread in Panasonic so that it rises high enough, close to what comes out with yeast? If yes - are there any photos to see? )

We tried to bake yeast-free in a Panasonic multicooker - for some reason it does not rise much. Is this normal for yeast-free?

[rs]

rs,

what mode is sourdough bread baked

There's no such thing.

yeast-free

Lavash, matzo, No HP does not bake, if only a cake on soda.
"Yeast-free" Is not such, yeast is present in any sourdough and a whole bunch of everything else. Look for details on the forum, discussed more than once.

[rs]

rs, There's no such thing. Lavash, matzo, No HP does not bake, if only a cupcake on soda.
"Yeast-free" Is not such, yeast is present in any sourdough and a whole bunch of everything else. Look for details on the forum, discussed more than once.

Yes, it is clear that the leaven contains yeast. For simplicity - under YEAST-FREE was meant with "non-store-yeast")

Okay, I'll ask differently - the model 2511 has a LOW YEAR bread mode. What does this mean? I decided that this was just the sourdough mode. Or do you mean something else?

Well, I will reformulate the second question - can you bake good sourdough bread in 2511? If possible - with an indication of the modes, links.

is it possible to bake good sourdough bread in 2511

In automatic mode it is impossible.

How can you?

It can only Zozhirushi yes Brand 3801

It can only Zozhirushi yes Brand 3801

That is, in Panasonic it is not at all an option to cook such a thing?! ...

[rs]

rs, In Panasonic, a small proofing, only imitating a long proofing manually, interrupting the program, then starting another to continue baking

Added Wednesday, 06 Apr 2016 08:37 PM

Panasonic is not at all an option to cook this

I don't see much sense, there is an oven for starter cultures, Panasonic HP automatic machine!

I don't see much sense, there is an oven for starter cultures, Panasonic HP automatic machine!

Duc the task is to purchase an apparatus for daily bread making (with sourdough to a greater extent) with a minimum of body movements ... an oven, with a look behind it in this chain is clearly superfluous)

You can bake with sourdough with a minimum of yeast. Then the program should be enough, I think. It will be delicious too! I very rarely bake on pure sourdough, I usually add a little yeast, for the stability of the process
Or yes, as they say, interrupt the program, set a reminder, then the baking mode.

You can bake with sourdough with the addition of a minimum of yeast.Then the program should be enough, I think. It will be delicious too! I very rarely bake on pure sourdough, I usually add a little yeast, for the stability of the process
Or yes, as they say, interrupt the program, set a reminder, then the baking mode.

I am now considering whether to purchase HP. Therefore, I do not know its modes. The task is to acquire a state-of-the-art in order to bake bread every day, spending as little time as possible on the process. Therefore, in order to better understand what a real process might look like, could you describe what sequential modes and actions you perform in the case of baking with sourdough?

I do not have HP yet, or rather, I have an old one that does not interfere, only bakes. I make the dough separately, and then I bake it in the HP.
But on the forum there is a whole section of leavened baking, there are a lot of recipes, including yeast and leaven, which are baked in KhP too. As an example:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=117106.0
Read this recipe, it just refers to Panasonic.
Or here's another, completely without yeast, so that you can navigate:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9070.0

[rs]

rs, I'll add a recipe for sourdough bread in HP, I baked it - I like it very much. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13348.0

[rs]

rs, I'll add a recipe for sourdough bread in HP, I baked it - I like it very much.

Thank you.
But here is leaven + yeast? Therefore, as I understand it, the French regime is sufficient. With leaven without yeast, all dances with a tambourine, as I understand it, begin ...

[rs]

rs, but why do you need pure leaven? Sourdough is a capricious creature. And it happens very differently. Sometimes dough rushes on it, just have time to catch it. And it happens that without yeast it does not rise at all. I have such a leaven right now - it does not raise the dough in any way, 1 g of fast-acting yeast completely changes the matter. The sourdough gives the taste, and the yeast helps to bring the rise of the dough within acceptable limits. The fact is that even if you bake sourdough in the oven, you still can't let the bread stand for too long. Since the leaven will begin to release too much acid and the bread will turn out to be too sour.

[rs]

rs, but why do you need pure leaven?

Well, factory yeast is harmful - there is a desire to abandon their use altogether))

Well, plant yeast is bad

Oh, this factory yeast I will not try to convince you. But personally, I bake with sourdough, and with yeast, and with ripe dough with the addition of yeast. The main thing is that the bread is tasty. I don't really like bread in HP, especially when it is purely yeast. It turns out very tiny. I suspect it may be temperature dependent. I bake white bread in the oven for the first 15 minutes at 220 degrees, plus I plant the bread in an already preheated oven to 250 degrees. I think it plays a big role.

plant yeast is harmful

Cockroaches that are in their heads are harmful ...
IMHO

Cockroaches that are in their heads are harmful ...
IMHO

well, maybe so ...))

[rs]

rs, I bake sourdough bread (no yeast)). Sorry, photos, now NO. THE ETERNAL LEAVE LIVES WITH ME. I bake bread according to recipes from our forum. Look, there are many of them. There are simple and understandable ones. I do not perform any dances with tambourines ...
I bake either in the French mode (with a delay of 1 or 2) ... or, sometimes in the semi-automatic mode ... I like to bake rye-wheat, wheat-rye with sourdough ... I have a Panasonic 2501.
I prefer white with yeast, and dry baked, and pressed ... bread is always delicious.
The guys and girls here are wonderful! Give good advice!

I bake either in the French mode (with a delay of 1 or 2) ... or, sometimes in the semi-automatic mode ... I like to bake rye-wheat, wheat-rye with sourdough ... I have a Panasonic 2501.

Yes, I looked at the recipes here, but almost everywhere some details are omitted that are obvious to people with experience, but far from those for beginners in the question, that is, for me, for example))

In particular, could you for me)) explain in detail - "... French mode (with a delay of 1 or 2)" - what does it mean? )) - put the ingredients, chose the French mode without baking and after it ends, turn on the baking with a delay of 2 hours? In this case, the dough for 2 hours before baking remains in the residual heat from the French mode without baking? Or a postponement after other stages?

"...or, sometimes in semi-automatic mode ... "- and nothing is clear here))

put the ingredients, chose the French no baking mode and after that we turn on baking with a delay of 2 hours? In this case, the dough for 2 hours before baking is in the residual heat from the French mode? Or a postponement after other stages?

No, not like that ... I weigh sourdough, flour, measure out water or whey, etc.
I put everything in a bucket of HP and put it on the French mode, I have it 8, then right there on the timer, I add 2 hours ... That's all .. HP IN 2 hours will start the process itself. In order ... first equalize the temperatures, then knead, then everything according to plan, right down to baking. The bread is fluffy.
When I bake in a semi-automatic ... then this is so - in the morning I will leave the fed leaven for an hour, warm up another, take a walk, when it rises, I measure out 500 g and in HP, then water, then flour and everything else ... and immediately put the batch, for example, dumplings, or better for gluten-free, a bucket is immediately heated there, I'm 7. BUT watch, otherwise miss the moment, the oven will start Baking ...
Everything, after kneading, I turn it off, and I LEAVE the dough in the OFF HP ... and when it comes up (until it doubles), I just put the baked goods for 1 hour 10 minutes, I call this "semi-automatic"

I put it on the French mode, I have it 8, then right there on the timer, I add 2 hours ... That's all .. HP AFTER 2 hours will start the process itself. In order ... first equalize the temperatures, then knead, then everything according to plan, right down to baking. The bread is fluffy.

Well, as far as I understand, the starter does not have enough proving time. Proofing, again in my opinion, is keeping the dough warm at about 40 degrees. And if you make a banal delay of 2 hours before the French one, then there is no additional proofing, right?

[rs]

rs, probably not, because during proofing, at a certain time, kneading is done, that is, the dough settles and gas is released. Before baking in automatic mode, the sourdough dough may not rise sufficiently. Sourdough dough is unpredictable, but for automatic baking everything should be clear.

Therefore, dry yeast is used for automatic baking, recipes with certain proportions and a limited time. This is not a dough on the table, where + - half an hour will not play a special role. In HP, everything is clear, or "dance" (you can with a tambourine), if you want something beyond

[rs]

rs, probably not, because during proofing, at a certain time, kneading is done, that is, the dough settles and gas is released. Before baking in automatic mode, the sourdough dough may not rise sufficiently. Sourdough dough is unpredictable, but for automatic baking everything should be clear.

Therefore, dry yeast is used for automatic baking, recipes with certain proportions and a limited time. This is not a dough on the table, where + - half an hour will not play a special role. In HP, everything is clear, or "dance" (you can with a tambourine), if you want something beyond

Something I am completely confused))

It turns out that in French with a pre-delay of 2 hours, I may not get bread with pure sourdough?

Added Thursday 07 Apr 2016 00:05

No, not like that ... I weigh sourdough, flour, measure out water or whey, etc.
I put everything in a bucket of HP and put it on the French mode, I have it 8, then right there on the timer, I add 2 hours ... That's all .. HP IN 2 hours will start the process itself. In order ... first equalize the temperatures, then knead, then everything according to plan, right down to baking. The bread is fluffy.
When I bake in a semi-automatic ... then this is so - in the morning I will leave the fed leaven for an hour, warm up another, take a walk, when it rises, I measure out 500 g and in HP, then water, then flour and everything else ... and immediately put the batch, for example, dumplings, or better for gluten-free, a bucket is immediately heated there, I am 7. BUT watch, otherwise miss the moment, the oven will start Baking ...
Everything, after kneading, I turn it off, and I LEAVE the dough in the OFF HP ...and when it comes up (until it doubles), I just put the pastries on for 1 hour 10 minutes, that's what I call "semi-automatic"

And if you combine the first and second?)

In the topic on this forum "Milk bread with sourdough" (I am not allowed to insert links) it is written for pure sourdough: Put all the ingredients in a bucket and turn on the "Pelmeni" program, as everything mixes (after about 3-5 minutes), turn off the program and turn on the French Bread program.
I bake bread in Panasonic, who does not have the "Pelmeni" or "Pizza" program, you can use any short-mix program. If the kneading in the bread maker begins immediately, without equalizing the temperature, then after the initial kneading (short), you need to let the dough stand for 2 hours, and then set the "French" program or use a timer with a delay of 2 hours.

[rs]

rs, I'm sorry. Have you ever tried the sourdough oven? Or grow her? Just do not be offended, but if not, then you are now running a little ahead of all these questions, I think. Sourdough is such a thing ... You need to keep it, feed it, groom and cherish it))). It does not in itself imply "hassle-free" bread baking.
Read the topic about leavens for more information.

[rs]

rs, I'm sorry. Have you ever tried the sourdough oven? Or grow her? Just do not be offended, but if not, then you are now running a little ahead of all these questions, I think. Sourdough is such a thing ... You need to keep it, feed it, groom and cherish it))). It does not in itself imply "hassle-free" bread baking.
Read the topic about leavens for more information.

I tried it once. With proofing and baking at MV Panasonic. The result is not inspiring, to put it mildly.)

Therefore, one of the reasons to move towards the acquisition of HP is just the desire to get good sourdough bread without gimmicks.)

Sourdough is a gimp and is, but tasty and healthy

That is, HP will not save you from gimp with leaven.

Accordingly, I ask questions BEFORE buying, in order to understand whether I will get what I want with the purchase)

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 00:19

Sourdough is a gimp and is, but tasty and healthy

That is, HP will not save you from gimp with leaven.

Well, if by gimp is meant once a day to feed the sourdough for its initial cultivation and then maintain it after each baking, then that will suit me perfectly. But I would not like to have a gimp even with HP - in fact, it is acquired to make life easier, for that matter. With an existing CF, at least.))

I'll try to explain something.
We have a roll recipe. To cook it by hand we need
1. Heat food to the general temperature specified in the recipe.
2. Make a high-quality kneading of the dough for N-minutes with M - kneading speed. In a complicated version, this kneading should be done in stages: first, simple ingredients, then, for example, baking, even later - raisins)))
Dancing from the recipe, the process temperature is also important here. Kneading is done with or without heating.
3. Next comes the proofing, that is, the time of rest and raising the dough.
Depending on the recipe, their quantity, time and each of them depend !!! can occur at their own temperature. The number of strokes, their strength and duration also depend on the recipe.
Let the Basic mode according to the plate in the instructions, for example, look like this:
- temperature equalization 30 minutes to 30 degrees
(this is the first stage - heating the ingredients to the same temperature, tempering the yeast and other preparation)
-kix 30 minutes with heating up to 28 degrees
- proofing for the first 20 minutes at 30 degrees
- warm-up 30 seconds
- second proofing 60 minutes at 30 degrees
- warm-up 30 seconds
- final proofing 40 minutes at 35 degrees
- baking at 160 degrees for 50 minutes.

You must choose the proportions of the ingredients so that you get a decent option when performing the regime.That is, if you take a bread recipe for this mode here on the forum, you will get delicious bread on the machine.
Well, I'm a little cunning. Something else depends on the quality of the flour purchased. Sometimes you have to stick your nose in and slightly adjust the amount in the recipe.
(See "kolobok rule"). But in most cases, baking can be done fully automatically.

You see in the plate of the Main Mode hard !!! scheduled cooking process, tough !! scheduled time and temperature at each stage, and this is the principle of operation of any automatic bread maker.

Attention!!! Realize to yourself that at home you manually stuck your nose into a pot of dough - and it has not risen yet, you still kept it warm. But in xn, this will not automatically work. Exactly through the prescribed !!! number of minutes she will bake you bread.
To extend the rest time, you need to stop the program and then somehow contrive to start another mode. Or just let it stand and then bake by hand. There are a lot of options depending on the choice of modes in the bread maker.

Let's say you need to bake sourdough bread. That is, on 500 g of flour you want to put 100 g of sourdough and ferment the dough at 20 degrees in the kitchen for about 7 hours.
It is immediately clear that the above mentioned mode will not suit you.
You need to see in the mode plate of any hp if there are modes with fermentation for 7 hours at 20 degrees))))
If there is no such mode, you need to combine a couple of modes.
From here you can estimate what this or that HP is suitable for according to the manufacturer's understanding.
Open its instructions and look carefully at least the time of the programmed modes. If the temperatures are also indicated, generally good.
If you need 7 hours of fermentation according to the recipe, and there is only 3 hours on the plate, and even at high temperatures, then you will have to run this mode 1.5 times and there can be no question of automation, although as a result of manipulation the desired bread can be achieved.

But if you choose recipes, adjusting to the hard-coded time in the HP modes, then the baking is automatic.
HP Panasonic offers delicious automatic !!! baking with yeast, a limited version of sourdough bread using the longest mode (there is the longest fermentation at a low temperature) - French, or a combination of modes for other recipes with sourdough, different types of rye bread and other complex recipes.
That is, if you do not engage in fermentation delights, there will be no gimmicks. Otherwise, yes, you will have to combine modes, gimmicks cannot be avoided.
But ... making sourdough bread is by definition the most tricky dough making. Because the lifting force of a home-grown sourdough depends on a bunch of factors, and the quality of the ingredients in the recipe is different for different purchases, it will not give you the opportunity to bake bread without looking.

The programmable bread makers have advanced features.
There you can expand the rigid framework of the programmed proofing time and temperatures for yourself.
The weaknesses of all CPs are strictly individual.
Build quality, baking quality (that is, bread crusts), programmed modes - everything is different and must be selected to suit your taste.

Summary.
If you arrange proven recipes for Panasonic on the forum, you will be satisfied with a minimum of effort. HP will last a long time without causing headaches with the service.
If you want your delights with a fermentation time exceeding 6 hours at temperatures of about 20 degrees and below, with non-standard flour, an increased amount of baking, then dances with tambourines will already be needed, automation will not work.

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 06:08

Also ... bread is baked in different ways. Just in the oven, on a stone, with or without steam. All this gives an individual taste to baked goods.
Baking in HP is a special type of baking. As a rule, it gives bread very tender and fluffy, with a peculiar taste. Someone really likes it, someone not really, they return to the oven.
That is, no one except you will determine whether baking in HP is suitable for you or not. Try bread from friends, there is no other way.

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 06:45

Here's a detailed description of the combination.
Let's say you need to ferment the dough for 10 hours at 20 degrees in the kitchen.

What can be done:
1. Knead the dough on the Dumplings. In this mode, there is no heating during kneading and kneading occurs immediately. That is, after the Dumplings we get the dough in a bucket without heating, its temperature will depend on the temperature of the ingredients being mixed and the temperature in the kitchen.
The dough was received in 15-20 minutes. Now we want to ferment it for 10 hours. We have a French mode (1 hour of preheating (that is, fermentation of our finished dough at a temperature of 24 degrees) + 5 hours of fermentation directly at 28 degrees) = 6 hours, that is, another 4 hours are missing. So we set the delay timer for 4 hours.
Then the combination of Pelmeni + Delay for 4 hours + French mode (6 hours total time) will give
dough in 15-20 minutes of kneading without heating !!! temperature depending on the temperature of the ingredients, that is, as we want it + 4 hours of fermentation at the temperature in the kitchen + 1 hour of standing with heating up to 24 degrees on Franz. mode + 5 hours of fermentation in French mode at 28 degrees = 10 hours of fermentation
How much this is identical to the original plan - you judge.
Another difference: additional kneading 5 hours after kneading))), if you do not pull out the spatula in advance by this moment.

Another combination option:
1. At the beginning choose Pizza (45 minutes heated), not Dumplings. At the exit there will be a dough with a temperature not like in the kitchen, but as programmed in a bread maker)))) + 15 minutes of fermentation in this mode, and then you can also continue ... 4 hours stitching timer + French mode,
or after kneading, immediately use the "warm dough" mode only for proofing for as many hours as you want, and then baking by hand.
But there will be no flips.
And with a delay timer, you need to understand that the dough will be in a bucket without heating at the temperature in the kitchen.

I tried it once. With proofing and baking at MV Panasonic. The result is not inspiring, to put it mildly.)

And what exactly did you dislike as a result? How was the dough kneaded: by hand or using a technique?
High-quality mixing plays a huge role in the result obtained. Well, to bake with sourdough - you still need to learn so that the dough does not stop (it can start to sour very strongly), and the distance is normal, and the sourdough is in good shape. That is, to try once with sourdough and decide that it is not very tasty is not right. Sourdough bread is quite difficult in terms of baking, you need skill and some understanding of the state of the dough.

[Anchic]

Anchic, I completely agree!!!

Strange planning ... not yet having sourdough and not having HP ... trying to achieve an understanding ... WHAT the bread will be ... IMHO ...
Yes, I have had sourdough for 2 years already ... I bake it regularly ... and sometimes there are still failures ...
Well ... and what ... not scary ... learn from mistakes! :-)
rs,
And yet ... where does it come from that sourdough bread needs as much as 10 hours of nursing ... we already ate a bun, that we baked yesterday, everyone is happy, everyone is happy, after the fed and raised sourdough and kneading, the bun fit 2.5 an hour plus 1 hour of baking ... my leaven is great, really ...
Well, you first have to have it, educate it, try it, and JUST ask it like that, it's all in vain, I think :-) sorry!

Strange planning ... without yet having sourdough and without HP ... trying to achieve an understanding ... HOW will the bread be ... IMHO ..

Why is it strange? ))

There has already been a not very successful test of sourdough bread in MB.) The fact that you need to learn how to get the right sourdough and be able to work with it is also already clear.

Now, not having HP yet and thinking about the need to acquire it, I am trying to achieve not "an understanding of HOW the bread will be" (it is obvious that it will be possible to get to the nuances only practically), but an understanding of WHAT and HOW MANY ACTIONS with their distribution in time with daily bread baking.It seems to me very reasonable to try to evaluate these moments BEFORE PURCHASING CP - otherwise it may turn out that the bread that you want to bake (with sourdough) and for which, in fact, CP is purchased - will require too much daily attention and for this the reason, in view of the banal lack of time - HP, in the end, will not be used. Then a reasonable question will arise - why was it necessary to buy something? ))

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 12:33 PM

And yet ... where does it come from that sourdough bread needs as much as 10 hours of nursing

Well, I'm not saying this) On the contrary - I ask)

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 12:34 pm

I'll try to explain something.

Thank you, it became generally more clear)

I, too, WANTED to bake sourdough bread, not knowing initially how much time and effort is needed for the whole process, from growing the sourdough itself to finished bread. But when I started doing it, I realized that it did not fit into the rhythm of my life. I settled on live / pressed yeast, as I managed to adapt it for automatic baking in KhP. In my opinion, it turned out to be an average version between the leaven and dry instant yeast.

In this version, I am quite satisfied, I get quite good bread in 4 hours with minimal effort, which is actually what HP is designed for. I often put the bread on at night, I don't have to wait at all.

And what exactly did you dislike as a result? How was the dough kneaded: by hand or using a technique?

As a result - "clay" flatbread)) - 3-4 centimeters high, sticky inside, baked in Panasonic MV on Pastry 65 min + 40 min + 30 min
The dough was kneaded by hand.
At first, the kneaded one lay in the room for several hours. Then it was brewed on the Multipovar for 1 hour at 40 degrees in MV.

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016 1:08 PM

I settled on live / pressed yeast, as I managed to adapt it for automatic baking in HP. In my opinion, it turned out to be an average version between the leaven and dry instant yeast.

Can I have a look at your recipe ("detailed")? )

And what is the leaven? What kind of bread was it made of? During the time the dough was in the room, did it rise well?

Baking 65 min + 40 min + 30 min

Have you baked bread for more than 2 hours?

When I first bought MV, I also tried to bake bread in it. I did not like. The heating element is from below, the roof is not heated in any way. Or oven or bread maker

Sourdough on wheat flour, 100%. Prepared in 4 feeding (4 days). It is difficult to evaluate its quality, there is nothing to compare with.) I cannot say that it bubbled a lot. Well, there was foam on it. The smell of such fermentation, too.

Dough: wheat + less rye flour. The dough probably didn't rise very much. Probably on a multi-cooker it could have been kept longer.

Yes, the bread was baked for more than two hours.

I have 2501, I bake sourdough bread.
Overfed rye sourdough for wheat.
I knead in pizza mode, leave it in HP for 2 hours, take out the dough, knead it.
I take out the spatula from the HP, return the dough to it, select the French bread mode and go to sleep.
At 6 am the bread is ready.
And my 14 son bakes yeast according to the programs from the book for HP and he does it without any problems.
But this is extremely rare.
Since sourdough bread and just yeast bread are completely different things.
Do not confuse.

[rs]

rs, you know, I'm not a great specialist, but I've been baking bread for several years now. Including leaven. I can advise you to first study the leavens well in the subject. Somehow I can't believe that in 4 days (especially for 4 feeding) you can grow a full-fledged starter culture. It takes more time for it to become strong. Even when she is already mature and strong, before baking bread she is sometimes fed a couple of times so that she gets into the bread at the peak of her strength.
Read the Temki, try to grow the leaven, as they say, the people have already eaten the dog there, if you have any questions, they will answer. And bake some bread in the oven for a start. There are basic recipes where everything is described in detail, all the technology.
This is if you basically want only sourdough bread.
And if you just want tasty (definitely tastier than the store) and simply - then buy HP. Bake in it, and then you can slowly start to do sourdoughs, at first just as an addition to bread, put them for smell, taste, crumb.
Everything is gradual and everything will work out.

I take out the dough, knead it.

Doing your hands? How long?

I pull out the scapula from the HP

And what does pulling out the scapula give?

Added Thursday, 07 Apr 2016, 01:40 PM

Somehow I can't believe that in 4 days (especially for 4 feeding) you can grow a full-fledged starter culture.

In the sourdough recipe that I found, it says that it usually takes three days, but for fidelity it is better 4. Made it "for fidelity"))

Doing your hands? How long?

With my hands and purely symbolically, from the edge to the center, I collect the bun. Maybe two minutes.
It is already mixed with a stove.

And what does pulling out the scapula give?

If the spatula is stirring, then when it is removed, the dough is no longer stirred.
There is a calm ascent.

With my hands and purely symbolically, from the edge to the center, I collect the bun. Maybe two minutes.
It is already mixed with a stove.
If the spatula is stirring, then when it is removed, the dough is no longer stirred.
There is a calm ascent.

What will change as a result if))
1. Eliminate hand kneading?
2. Do not remove the scapula?

How will this affect the result?

[rs]

rs, Daria written correctly. After 4 days, the leaven is just young and weak at best. She is unable to raise the dough. After a few hours, the sourdough dough will become peroxidized, but this does not mean that she will be able to raise it. Moreover, since the leaven is a living organism, it can turn out to be weak and remain so.
Here is the starter section on our forum https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&board=172.0 It is worth choosing one for yourself and trying to master it. Ask questions about this leaven in the relevant topic (those who lead the same will answer).

And what does pulling out the scapula give?

Pulling out the scapula means that there will be no mixing and kneading, since there will be nothing to do it with.

I have 2501, I bake sourdough bread.

No factory yeast at all?

Yes. And then the point is to ferment.
I bought HP last year in February.
I spent a month using recipes from the instructions with dry yeast. First, from premium flour, did not like it.
I switched to the first grade, it's already better.
Then she grew rye sourdough and baked it for a month. Did not like. I overfed her with wheat (I feed the wheat sourdough variety Oboynaya Wholegrain) I liked it. I bake every day, feed the leaven every day.