Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

[Irina]

Irina, well, why. Take out, of course, how to stop it.
Over the past three years, I have started it in the machine only at the dacha. When I have other things to do.
And all the rest are under manual control and 90% of them are dough. And so, when you put the second batch of flour on the ready-made dough, it becomes noticeably dusty for the first couple of minutes, because the height of the filling is large. And then from it all sorts of deposits on the walls, on the heating element.
At first I covered it with a sheet of paper, but you need to follow it. It fell into the flour three times and was kneaded into the dough completely indistinguishable. I had to start from the "center of the field".
But from a milk bag, the lid behaves well. And folds right to size. I even have the one that I have for permanent use transferred two of these> <scissors ticks cut near the axis of the handle.

[Waist]

Waist, Countryman, I understand now, thanks! Otherwise, I would have left it. I'll try on occasion, how a suitable package is formed in the house.

Girls and boys. SOS !!! Has anyone leveled the Frenchman's stove in full, 2h5min?

Nope, Ol, I always have exactly 40 minutes.
Is it too hot at your house or is the stove in a warm place?

Yes, it was like that in the summer when the room is too warm.
Even then I was scared that the stove had broken.

SOS !!! Has anyone leveled the Frenchman's stove in full, 2h5min?

I have leveled more than two hours today. I have already started to worry too (at home the temperature is 26 * C).

At home 23 degrees, not hot, but evens out the second hour. The only thing that I already baked in it today but it was 3 hours between baked goods.

[Olya]

Olya, in the instructions for the French regime it is written that alignment 40 min - 2 h 5 min. While everything is within this norm - there is nothing to worry about
I showed a picture explaining the alignment. Found by chance on an English-language site

Link to a good picture

🔗

Added Wednesday 16 March 2016 08:28 PM

If you think about it, in room 23 *, and even you baked 3 hours ago, that is, the HP is warm, then this is already + to the room temperature
Do not worry, the kneading will start no later than 2 hours 5 minutes, the program will work anyway

Added Wednesday 16 March 2016 08:29 PM

Good bread to you!

[Waist]

Waist, The kneading began after 2h5min ... just with such a long alignment, the meaning of the French program is lost

Ol, try to unplug the stove from the network a couple of times, but no more than 30 minutes between strokes.

Added Wednesday 16 March 2016 8:56 PM

I do this sometimes when I want to add time.

Olya, then it is better to bet with dough. Knead yeast, half the flour and water on the "Pizza" program, you can use all the water you have according to the recipe. 10 minutes is enough. Stop mixing and immediately turn on the "French" mode. Pour the remaining flour, salt, sugar and butter on top of the mixed dough.

You can do as Marina advises, but forget about peace. I missed it a couple of times
Why less than 30 minutes? Because the stove saves all settings for 30 minutes and then resets. That is, if you turn off the oven for 25 minutes and then turn it on again, it will simply continue the program and it will turn out that the proofing / maturation of the dough will be 25 minutes longer. But if you turn on the stove after 31 minutes - that's it, you will need to start some program from the beginning

Here, Natashechka "chewed" everything!
I briefly forgot that Olya is a beginner.

Oh, Marin, I miss it as if in the turmoil, my little one needs attention all the time. Now I will take into account that for the second time of baking in a day, the leveling increases and I will stir up the dough.

[Waist]

Waist, The kneading began after 2h5min ... just with such a long alignment, the meaning of the French program is lost

perhaps because of the heat in the room, the stove inside did not cool down enough even after three hours. I would take it out on the balcony for half an hour before the second baking. I would definitely cool it with the lid open.
It is inside the bread maker that should cool down, I don't remember exactly, but it should be no higher than 30 degrees inside.
There was also somewhere on the forum how to cheat a temperature sensor. In my opinion, something frozen was put in a bucket.
But I would completely cool the stove, then it’s as if it will work out the new cycle more clearly.

Added Thursday, 17 Mar 2016 04:44

found how the stove was deceived in a warm room:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...c=167.0
and then adding
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...c=167.0

Help raise the roof or what's wrong with the recipe?
Wheat flour 240 gr
Whole grain 190 gr
Buckwheat 50 gr
Powdered milk 2 tbsp. l
Water 320 ml
Salt 1.5 tsp
Sugar 1 tbsp. l
Oil 1 st. l
Live yeast 4 gr (for a Frenchman)
We really liked this bread, but here's the roof ...... On dry yeast on program 01 it turned out to be bumpy, yesterday in French it turned out to be one-sided, on one side it rose slightly on the other and fell through.

[Olyushk @]

Olyushk @, Bread with buckwheat flour is very capricious, try other recipes, for example https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=161852.0 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=14593.0 https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=47.0
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=295892.0
I don't know where the recipe comes from, but there is clearly a lot of water and little yeast.

[Alexander]

Alexander, buckwheat bread is not an end in itself. I want to bring whole grain to mind, it is just that the buckwheat roof does not fall through to the floor. Little yeast put just for the French program. With whole grain flour, I tried all the recipes from the site, plus those that were prompted in the topic and always a roof failure! The rest of the breads turn out very decently, and some are just fine, but whole grain is my murder ... I already dream about the whole grain bun at nights.
Here is a very valuable remark about water, how much does it recommend to subtract?

Ol, I'll stick out of the bushes for a moment.
I would start to subtract from a tablespoon and observe the result.

If you show the result, loaf and cut, it will be easier to understand and advise.

The bread is crooked, so the dough was tight - add water. Or maybe the HP itself is in a draft. Then, penetrating and rising through the holes in the walls of the flask and lid, it constantly blows in cooler air and in that place (under the frame in the lid) the dough rises more slowly.

The roof collapses, a lot of water - turn it down.

In the process of experiments, the roof can turn out to be flat, you can also reduce the water. And so on to the desired

With the correct consistency, yeast dough fills everything and itself takes a more horizontal level, without distortions, and then you get a beautiful bread, more uniform from all sides.

it is from the buckwheat roof that the roof does not fall through to the floor.

An interesting point. Buckwheat flour is gluten-free, but it can be substituted for wheat flour, because when mixed with water, buckwheat forms a gel / mucus, which acts as gluten.
Green buckwheat flour has a more neutral taste than fried flour

I tried all the recipes from the site with whole grain flour

This one also failed? https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=2972.0

Write what you added. If you follow the recipe, everything turns out with half a kick.
Another recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@Itemid=126&option=com_smf&topic=22.0

Added Thursday, 17 March 2016 12:59 PM

Buckwheat flour is gluten-free, but it can be substituted for wheat flour, because when mixed with water, buckwheat forms a gel / mucus, which acts as gluten.
Green buckwheat flour has a more neutral taste than fried flour

There is no gluten in buckwheat, alas. Buckwheat is a close relative of sorrel 🔗Buckwheat 🔗Buckwheat_ sowing green buckwheat on sale, we practically do not, especially flour. If only in Indian stores

[Waist]

Waist, Here you probably still need to take into account the maturity of the flour (that is, its own moisture)

[Alexander]

Alexander, according to the second recipe I did not bake, the wording "wholemeal flour" was embarrassed, but the first recipe served as a prototype for my "arts", the only thing that I had to increase the water because the ingredients stubbornly did not want to collect in a bun, hence the increase in water in the current recipe to 320, and since the author of the recipe boldly changed the proportions of flour, I also decided to experiment and add a little buckwheat.
Natalia, I just have green buckwheat flour, it gives such a light buckwheat shade to a loaf ...
So I don't really understand with a bun ... it seems like the first time I added 15 ml of water a little bit, and already too much water ...

[Olyushk @]

Olyushk @, Olga, Try to bake it strictly according to the recipe, without changing anything, try not to pay attention to the bun. Whole grain flour, in this case, is whole grain.

[Alexander]

Alexander, I'll try! I'll put it in and close it.

we have practically no green buckwheat on sale, especially flour

I bought buckwheat flour and green buckwheat itself in a joint purchase from the company "lifestyle".

A couple of times I overheated and mixed, and then the roof also fell through. It also came out terribly tasteless and the roof flew when I overexposed it in the proofing.
I would proceed from the fact that whole grain flour is usually light, that is, you need less water, the dough is colder during the main kneading, knead less.
I would knead a little on dumplings, then set a dietary regimen, and send the bucket to the refrigerator before the main kneading to knead the cold dough. I would play with the modes: perhaps French would be more suitable (it kneads and heats less there).
Would you control the dough on the proofers - suddenly it stops? Can be weakly crushed into the last fit and need help with handles.
Perhaps the flour is so special that it will not work on the machine in principle. Whole grain is different every time you buy it. Perhaps this batch is very capricious to bread makers and in order to get it on the machine it must be mixed with ordinary flour or control everything with handles

[Kymbat]

We have practically no green buckwheat on sale, especially flour.

Granets is already producing

🔗

More and more people with specific allergies, many new products appear.

Thalia, Here you probably still need to take into account the maturity of the flour (that is, its own moisture)

Kymbat, I thought about it Is it possible that the flour packed in small bags is not ripe? What is in the bag is immature. I know for sure, I did it in Kazakhstan. In Ireland, flour will not be released for sale if it does not meet all the standards of the species, including maturity. As with this in Russia and other countries, I just don't know

I would assume that whole grains are usually light flour

VOOOOOt, and I have a strong one, probably that's why everything worked out right away.

would set a dietary regimen

By the way, yes, the mode "Dietary" in my oven exactly "Wholegrain" ... So it is special for such bread.

I would proceed from the fact that whole grain flour is usually light, ..., the dough is colder with the main kneading, knead is weaker

I wonder what effect this should give, cooling the dough and weak kneading?

Bliiin ... if I knew that this flour would not buy it in my life, but now drag it around the refrigerators, it’s time to knead the guard ... I’ll take it to church.

Today, a dense one, I learned about the existence of green buckwheat ... All my friends, whom I asked about this product, reacted as if they had drunk too much, and therefore pinned ... But this is not about that. A special thrill, in the last couple of days, is the discussion of the baking process. Physico-chemical technology textbook! Not every department can handle it. And what kind of fool was I playing in physics and chemistry !? And now I'm making up ..
The essence of the post: thank you very much, girls and boys, for explaining such subtleties and secrets of baking. I read it with great pleasure!

Granets is already producing

Know ours!
Valentine, it's never too late to learn anywhere!
I am also learning. Only temporarily remote from your bread machine. Only with you.

I wonder what effect this should give, cooling the dough and weak kneading?

so I also thought that if the flour were strong, then we would not discuss anything. Then do not mix the strong flour and do not overdo it. Maximum, well, the bread would be tough and tasteless. The water has already decreased, and the result is zero, and with strong flour, you can add a lot of water and give it a ride.
According to the description, it looks more like a weak flour. Theoretically, it would be possible to check better: put gluten improvers into it, such as panifirin with ascorbic acid, and look at the result. If the improvers help, then for sure - weak.

And if it is weak, then when heated during mixing it can completely collapse, and when cooled it can withstand any load longer. Well, during fermentation, whole grain dough can be ready earlier than usual. There are more enzymes in it. Maybe that's the whole problem? Is it just changing?

In my French regime, nothing was destroyed, but mostly there were failures. But in French, I used to interrupt the dough (this is exactly what happened with whole-grain flour French Thing). Therefore, I try not to shift the yeast in the French mode.
And I very rarely use the dietary regimen, so I can't say anything about it. Perhaps undeservedly bypassed.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, well, what mode should you choose for this thing?

How about this in Russia

You are not aware of the scandal about flour below all acceptable standards, feed, from which we make bread "for everyone"?
It's okay.
The question my wife asked me when buying flour: are you sure that this flour is not made from coarse grains?
It got me thinking and reconsidering my financial claims to quality.
Again the serpent, in the form of a wife, asks: are you sure that you will pay more and get a higher quality?
And I fell into a stupor, because in my profession, test and everyday specimens differ from each other like the planet Mars from the bar of the same name ...

Added Thursday, 17 Mar 2016 11:30 pm

... I'll take her to church.

Masterpiece !!! Thank you!

[Valentine]

Valentine, I am not aware of the scandal. I know how sad things can be. With any choice, there may be a failure beyond our control

I know how sad things can be.

According to Shakespeare. That makes it ... more understandable.
I took 2nd grade flour. Added to the base along with oatmeal, buckwheat, rye additive. The bread was "heavy", crumbling on the 3rd day.
I reduced the additives to a total amount of 100-120 grams, and even mixed it with sourdough, got a dense, but light, crispy bread.
I remembered the song: "... our hands are not for boredom ...", brains, probably, after all ...

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, well, what mode to choose for this thing?

I would put the whole stock of whole grain in the refrigerator (so that I would lie there longer and not spoil) and cook bread mixed with ordinary normal flour. There will be less fuss.

Or if there is a desire to suffer, then, as the girls suggested, I would choose the dietary regimen, since it is intended for whole grains. I would add a small pinch of ascorbic acid to the flour to enhance its properties, I would choose colder water for mixing from a bottle like Lipetsk Pumpkin and observe the whole process.

I would have chosen the water so that the bun would stop smearing after 8-10 minutes of mixing.
Then I would follow the dough, sniff and poke)))) all the time, so that it does not stand still and smells delicious before baking. If you follow the whole process, you can see where the dog is buried, and then remove the problem.

I'm just not sure it's worth the effort. Buy a new batch of specific flour and all over again.
If the flour is problematic, then in my opinion it is easier to mix it with normal flour until a strong whole grain is found, on which bread will be obtained without dancing with a tambourine.
Or stock up on improvers, if the hunt is conjuring with unusual flour.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, and immediately the question:

a small pinch of ascorbic acid

Pharmacy ascorbinka in the form of dragee balls or what else happens?

But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort.

It's worth it, if you eat these 12 kg, you also need to use it up, and if you add a little, then she will have an expiration date ... it's a pity

12 Kg

Oh, sachet weight is voiced

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, and immediately the question: Pharmacy Ascorbinka in the form of dragee balls or what else happens? It's worth it, if you eat these 12 kg, you also need to use it up, and if you add a little, then it will have a shelf life ... it's a pity

I bought powder at the pharmacy. Pure ascorbic acid, but I can think of crushing the solution and tablets. If only there was ascorbic acid. You can also try to shove egg white to strengthen the gluten.
And then don't get hung up on the machine. First, do everything under supervision. Check how it swells, how long it rises to prevent over-spreading. As the dough rose for the last time and it certainly began to smell delicious - you need to bake.
Also pay attention to the crush. Maybe it makes sense to fold the handles once, as with baguettes. Stretch the surface harder so that the roof does not fall.

Maybe you should additionally choose a recipe with milk in the composition. It's easier to get a decent option with any flour.

In general, when it does not work out, it would be nice to take a picture of the bread and show the cut to the professionals on the forum, then the girls could better diagnose the crumb.

[Mix for 100 g of flour and water, as for dumplings, not steep]

But it may be that the flour is not weak, namely immature.

A! By the way, flour! I flew in for Easter with an order. And the order is not frail - 300 large pastes (250-300g) and 300 small ones. First batch - oh, horror !! Gray (and this is only on the yolks!), Sandy, no rise (not yeast!). Fucked up the whole order! Naturally, the customer refused this! And the trial baked from the same flour! Cool! Now, taught by bitter experience, I now check every batch. Mix for 100 g of flour and water, as for dumplings, not steep, knead well with your hands (mash). I lay for at least 10 and try to stretch. Stretches well, fits, does not stretch, breaks, I give another 10 minutes to lie down. The same procedure. The same result - everything is NOT suitable for yeast baking.
More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...n=com_smf&topic=429904.80

Olya, can check as written.

What Bijou described, speaks of the freshness of the flour, that is, it is from this year's grain, not ripe. This is the scourge of all bakers. We must be patient And let her rest. There is an option to add dry gluten when kneading.

And if the flour is freshly ground, then the shelf life should be longer, or not ?? I mean, in terms of numbers, the shelf life will expire, but in fact the flour will be normal

But it may be that the flour is not weak ...

Who else would tell how unstable flour behaves)))) How to distinguish it from normal?
It's dangerous to wait with whole grain - it quickly deteriorates and then begins to taste terribly bitter, spoils the bread irrevocably. It is safe to wait only for the highest grade. And in whole grain, bugs start up quickly.

Well, what happens when baking, except for test baking, can not be determined. In theory, it is necessary to conduct a complete analysis))) And in a scientific way, determine the strength of gluten and see its quality))).
But this is only the first stage.
Then you need to investigate the fermentation ability of the flour and the crust when baking.

But you can see it in the bread maker too. If the dough is sticky and sticky, it turns out even when there is little water and baking soon, but it still does not dry out and does not stretch, then it means that there is not enough gluten or it is spoiled. It is necessary to cool all processes, reduce water, add improvers, do the kneading in neat folds.

If the dough after the main kneading for at least 15-20 minutes is already non-sticky, soft, and by the end of fermentation it is pleasantly viscous, then everything is not so bad with gluten)))
It means that you need to monitor the proofing and the correct strokes. Do not let it overgrow or overstay. In HP, the time for proofing is fixed, which is for premium flour, which is for whole grain.And in whole grain, the chemical composition is much richer and the dough can be ready earlier than in a simple premium grade, for example.
The dough has grown twice - kneading, as soon as the dough began to smell nice - the last rise is 1.5 to two times and pastries.
If the flour is weak, then it is better not to give a full rise to the highest point, it may not stand it.

Then the baked goods can be very pale - there is little sugar in the flour.
In general, full dances with tambourines, if the flour is special.

Added on Friday 18 Mar 2016 02:52

Still, perhaps the sponge option will help. The dough seems to give a more stable result, especially with weak flour.
Prepare the dough in a bread maker. But again, if the flour is weak or some kind of special, then you cannot knead the finished dough much, you also need to control the process. Automatic active mixing only normal flour will withstand.
Need to try. Only practice will show what is optimal for this flour.

Also, girls, I'm not a professional. I only share how I cope myself when I fly by with flour. Therefore, take my advice with caution. This is just my personal experience.
If Admin or one of the old-timers can help in this difficult issue, it would be better.

Well, what mode should I choose for this thing?

Whole grain or dietary, no difference.
I'd like to look at the results of baking without "amateur performance" exactly according to recipes
Shl check the expiration date of flour, for whole grain 6 months.

[fffuntic]

fffuntic, put the candle flour in the refrigerator. Now let's go look for ascorbic acid.
Alexander, now I will put all the ingredients in a bucket and go for a walk with the baby, be sure to post a photo of how it will be baked. The expiration date is good for flour, produced on 02/04/2016.

I tried the bread on dough, I really liked it!
Photo is true the next day
Since I love bread with rye flour, I made it according to the recipe for ordinary white bread, size L: 350 gr. wheat flour of the first grade +50 gr. rye flour. For dough 150 gr. wheat flour, 130 ml. water, sugar and pressed yeast 12gr. The rest of the ingredients according to the recipe after 10-three minutes kneading on the dumplings dough. Program 1. The result is a tall loaf with excellent crumb. Thanks everyone for the innovation!

My dear ... beloved !!! I want to kiss you all
: goody: the roof turned out
(poke your nose as you add photos)

Olenka, and show?

What have you done ? Tell me! Interestingly, and just in case we will know

[Olyushk @]

Olyushk @How to insert a photo https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=73109.0

Flour and water from the refrigerator were loaded into buckets according to the recipe Wheat-rye bread with whole-grain flour "Krestyansky", I also infused the ascorbic pea there, switched it on to a dietary regime and left

[fffuntic]

This is how it turns out to be with whole grain flour.

Thank you, fffunticthat did not pass by and taught us !!!

Olenka, we are waiting for impressions about the taste This is the "second side of the coin"

and left

It is most important!