Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

I baked bread tonight at my place, I will call it the first approximation to Riga, because the expected result at the end of the approximations is the taste as close as possible to Riga.

I slightly altered the standard recipe from the instructions for the low-yeast bread program with rye flour:

Flour in. from. 300gr
Rye flour, peeled 100g
Serum 260g
salt 1 tsp l.
honey a little less than 1 hour. l.
odorless sunflower oil 1 tbsp. l.
rye white malt 1 st. l.
cumin 1 tbsp. l.
instant Packmaya yeast 0.6 h. l.

Baked on the program "low-yeast, minimum size M, light crust.
Then I will correct: I will slightly increase the salt, I will try to shift the amount of rye flour in the direction of its increase, by reducing the wheat flour. More malt and more caraway seeds. Honey is just right, don't increase, don't decrease for my taste. And the oil seems to be enough. Riga should be much denser, well, it is made from one rye flour, but I want to leave some wheat flour for lifting

The bread turned out to be delicious, fragrant, tender-soft, rubbery, a little more than 3/4 of a bucket in size. I really liked how gray will go well for every day if that, but for now I will experiment further

[".. baked at my place at night ..."]

Bake my bread tonight

Lyud, it started like a detective novel ...
".. baked at my place at night ..."

Good bread, Lud, so cozy, homey, it goes through the monitor!
I want this too ...



That's when we will SLEEP at night, and not bake bread !?))))
People, we don't have grandchildren, so that they yell at night ...

[Ritochka]

Ritochka, yes, it's time for our grandchildren, it's time
And you don't need to sleep with our panasiks, they bake themselves, I just took out the bucket in the morning and shook out the bread, it got a little damp from below and on the sides, but stood there, breathed on the stand for an hour and everything returned to normal, the crust was right!

Flour in. from. 300gr
Rye flour, peeled 100g
Serum 260g
salt 1 tsp l.
honey a little less than 1 hour. l.
odorless sunflower oil 1 tbsp. l.
rye white malt 1 st. l.

I have no white malt.
So what? Can I bake without it?

Luda, white malt, what is this?

[Ritochka]

Ritochka, white malt is necessary for Riga, but you can simply add dark malt to tasty gray malt without it or add dark malt for aroma. I myself have been looking for this white malt for a long time, so that I would not travel far, as a result, I bought Pudov white rye malt in ozone.
I also bought liquid dark barley malt, I want to try the same for kvass and bread, but I have not settled down with it yet, I also want barley in bread, but either cook the barley first, or grind it with flour, in general, it did not work out yet .. I have a lot of thoughts about bread, I cannot realize everything at once, let them mature slowly.

Svetochka, white malt is unfermented malt, in tyrnet they write:

Actually, in general, malt is a sprouted and dried grain. Malt is prepared mainly from barley, but also from rye, wheat, oats and even rice. Depending on the cooking technology, there are many types and varieties of malt. White (unfermented), red (fermented), roasted, stewed, caramelized, amber, etc.
As a rule, two types of malt are used in baking: white and red. Red (fermented) malt, mostly rye, is sold in almost any supermarket.
Due to the peculiarities of the cooking technology, this type of malt (fermented) has an extremely weak degree of enzymatic activity and is used more as a flavoring and coloring agent, although it is a natural improver of flour mixed with it, having a positive effect on the moisture and gas holding capacity of the dough, as well as enhancing the fermentation processes, due to the large amount of free sugars contained in it. But, nevertheless, it is more interesting as an additive that gives rye (for example, Borodino) bread so beloved and recognizable taste and aroma.

White malt is made precisely as an additional source of enzymes, vitamins, minerals and simple sugars, and we are interested in as an additive that enhances the fermentation processes in the dough.
In the process of grain germination, the amount of nutrients, trace elements and vitamins in it sharply increases - by an average of 3-4 times compared to dry, "sleeping" grain. In addition, during germination, enzymes break down proteins, fats and carbohydrates into simpler compounds: amino acids, fatty acids and simple sugars, such as maltose, which is food for yeast, which in the process of digestion produce alcohol and carbon dioxide from it, as there is, in fact, a fermentation process.
White malt is a natural flour improver and a powerful catalyst for dough fermentation. The addition of white malt to the dough (0.5-3% by weight of flour) sharply accelerates the fermentation processes of the dough, increases the gas-holding capacity of the dough, positively affecting its extensibility. Bread with white malt added to the dough has a more complex and richer taste and aroma, and is stored much better and longer.

In addition, white unfermented malt is indispensable for the preparation of natural light kvass. Do you want kvass-pluck out your eyes? You need white malt. Barley, rye - it doesn't matter.

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, and in what bread (in the last one - of course) did you add it? What does it change in taste and, in general, in baking bread (your observations)?

[Svetochka]

Svetochka, so I use it for the first time, as I understand it, the aroma of fermented gives, but does not give a dark color, something like this

[mamusi]

mamusi, Mandraik Ludmila, Lera-7,
girls, I removed conversations about dating from the topic ...
If you want, open a separate topic so that interested people gather there, and this does not annoy anyone.

I have a misunderstanding and ask for help in debriefing. I always bake on prog 01 size M
Flour (rye - 50, millet. BC - 350) - 400 gr.
Yeast (Safmoment - 1 tsp. Or 8 gr. Pressed)
Sugar, prescription salt, semi-finished oil 1 table. l (measuring spoons)
Water - 250 ... 260 ml.
Everything is on the machine for the night. No questions. And so in the morning I receive bread that has risen only 3/4 of the required size, or even half less. But tasty !!! Pyok na Safe. Yesterday I decided to change the yeast to the freshest pressed. I didn't like the yeast. They did not break, but tore. However, into tiny pieces no problem. I decided to take a chance. The tests were carried out exactly as when baking the previous one. I turned on the stove at 23-00 and decided to read a smart book. I did not find one and began to cut in Zuma, since Saturday was coming. As a result, I missed almost the entire batch. And what I saw was horrifying! Kolobok was not in sight! The bucket contained a crumpled sticky pear and sticky pieces of dough at the bottom and at the corners of the sides of the bucket. However, I will not say that it is wet. Smooth, matte, but not kolobok. I got into a stupor. I don’t know what to do. I decided to wait for the second batch. Exactly according to the program, the second 5-minute batch began, which changed nothing. I tuned in for new baked goods in the morning. And in the morning the same amazing aroma of bread, but exactly like the previous one - low. But it tastes good! Here he is

🔗

Please point out the jambs

Vital, I think the yeast ... They were already in a semi-working state and overnight they simply stopped waiting, that is, by the right moment they were already tired of waiting and even died.
Such non-crumbling yeast needs 4-6 hours maximum.

And yes, the bread is still tasty, but yes, it is lower than usual.

She, I have such yeast in the refrigerator for a week, or even two. He broke off a quarter and returned to the refrigerator. And I crumble a quarter into a bucket. Although these were the ones I didn't like - the game was unsuccessful. However, I will change the flour in the next. time.

[Vitaly]

However, I will change the flour the next time.

Vitaly, I would change the same flour, yeast still influences the rise at the kneading stage - flour ... Does the flour last long? Maybe it got damp, I had this, now the humidity is very high, I have a bag of flour right outside, on paper, standing behind me, in the depth of the pencil case, began to become moldy ... I gave it to neighbors for cattle, they keep chickens and rabbits. Then I washed the entire pencil case with detergent and vinegar, and sowed all the flour just in case ...And those that I keep for a long time, rarely used, such as corn, oatmeal, buckwheat and something else, I don’t remember, I poured them into plastic milk bottles after sifting and wrote. And damp flour loses its lifting force very much

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, I think so too.

Today I made such a handsome man, using leaven, without industrial yeast, in French "Milk with sourdough" I bake 2 times and both are very beautiful.

[Sedne]

Sedne, pretty, very interesting structure on the sides

[Wit]

Wit, Vitaliy, I have long since switched from Saf-moment to Pakmaya. At the moment I like them.

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After watching Luda's baguettes, she baked a French one with whey. Until then, always on the water. It turned out with bitterness Interestingly whey could give bitterness?

Interestingly whey could give bitterness?

NO if the whey itself was free of bitterness.




Something was initially bitter: either whey, or rancid flour, or butter.

[Svetochka]

Svetochka, I have absolutely no bitterness, some initial product is bitter, Natasha is right, most likely it is the serum. If you still have it, just try without swallowing, take and hold it in your mouth to feel the taste.

[Waist]

Waist, Natasha, the cottage cheese was very tender and tasty. So the serum should be normal too? I keep the oil in the refrigerator. I bake not only bread from flour, I don't feel bitterness in other products. Strange



Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, no more. But two loaves, cat. I baked on it, they were with mustard. So it's her. I have sinned on c. h. flour in another bread.

[$ vetLana]

$ vetLanaand the whey is fresh? theoretically it can turn rancid .. Oil is unlikely, I used to sometimes stuff the weathered oil into hot processing, it does not give bitterness, it can give an unpleasant odor. Now I keep all the oil in the freezer, there it does not go rancid.

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, Luda, fresh and the curd was delicious. The milk, however, somehow slowly turned sour. But I thought it wasn’t hot, so it didn’t want to sour.



Now I will try the serum before laying.

[Sveta]

Sveta, well, I don’t know, I now bake everything on whey, nothing tastes bitter. And how much milk powder do you have and where is it stored? Of course, it is not enough in the recipe, but the same can turn rancid.

[bitter]

The milk, however, somehow slowly turned sour. But I thought it wasn’t hot, so it didn’t want to sour.

Sveta, milk can sour badly because of additives, and they can give bitterness I don't know what is added there, but our milk can stand on the table for a long time and not sour, and then once - and stinkbitter

[Natasha]

Natasha, and we have the same thing, like that Belarusian milk "did not turn sour"

[Waist]

Waist, Mandraik Ludmilamaybe there was such a party? It was as if not everything was in order with him. This is my first time. Lesson for the future.

Girls, is there a timer for the dough in any model? So that the dough is ready at a certain time?

[Oksana]

Oksana, only pizza dough can be put on the timer in models 2500-2512.



Alternatively, for the dough, you can set the complete bread program on the timer, but taking into account the time when you are guaranteed to be able to get the dough and use it. If you wake up, HP will bake you bread

Thank you! And pizza dough is 15 minutes kneading, right?

[Oksana]

Oksana, 40

Model 2511 has pizza - 45 minutes

At 2501 45 minutes With kneading, fermentation, kneading and approach. You get it ready, bake it right away.

[Oksana]

Oksana, only pizza dough can be placed on the timer in all models.

At 253 it is impossible to do this, which is a pity

[Alexandra]

Alexandra, if VERY needed, try on a bread program: what kind of dough you want, a similar program and start by setting the timer so that it is guaranteed to pull out the dough before or immediately after the last workout - this will be the readiness of the test as in the TEST mode.

On modes "Basic" and "Diet / Whole Grain" in 2500-2512 bread makers, the last crush 1:40 on the oven display.

I.e:
Put food on the dough.
You count how much time from the moment of laying, to readiness, when you need to pull out the dough.
Subtract 1 hour 40 minutes.
Received - this will be the time that you need to set on the timer.

If you forget, the last proofing and baking will go according to the program - there will be bread

For several other modes, you can see

in this table.

Last night, baked the second approach to Riga

whey (salty) 280g
wheat flour 1s 200g
seeded rye flour 200g
white rye malt 50g
salt 1 tsp
honey 1 tsp
yeast 0.75 tsp.
cumin (passed through a grinder, but not to flour) 1 tbsp.

Low yeast bread program, size M, light crust

This bread has already turned out to be completely different, the bread is quite "heavy", moist, crumbly, sticky, in general, typical rye bread, so far it has little resemblance to Riga ... But here I found in the recipe that Riga is made with "tea leaves", I will try. This bread is to our taste, rye bread is usual for us, only more porous, due to wheat flour. Half a bucket in height, I cut the roof cross in advance. Sprinkled on top with whole caraway seeds.

As rye, he does not suit me with the fact that it contains wheat flour, but he still does not pull Riga

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, for this amount of flour Ooh-a lot of white malt. From that and such a crumb.
White malt is a cool thing, I love it. It does not have the strong aroma of dark fermented malt. But it gives ordinary white bread such a taste as if a long dough was used. And some sweetness and richness even without the addition of honey and sugar.
But it should be added no more than 2% of the flour mass. That is, 8 grams per serving.
Now, if you make tea with him, then it's another matter. You can take 25 grams per serving. And do not forget that it should be brewed with water not higher than 65 degrees, otherwise all enzymes will die. The tea leaves should be really sweet, like sugar tea. I am surprised every time this effect

[Svetlana]

Svetlana, thank you, I will take into account, I somehow did not know about this temperature, I always brewed dark malt with boiling water
I peep at these two recipes

Bread "Riga" GOST 2077-84 (dogsertan)

Bread "Riga fast" (bread maker) (Gasha)

I'm trying to make my boiling

[Waist]

Waist,
Natasha, of course I am aware of how to do this on another program, and I always do this if I really need to. You wrote that all HP have a timer on Pizza, and I - at 253 there is no such thing, which is a pity, of course

always brewed dark malt with boiling water

Yes, for dark malt this is correct, and then, when I brew dark malt with flour, I do not pour all the flour right away, leave a little and add when everything has already been stirred and the temperature has dropped. Then fermentation takes place at the expense of this portion of flour and the brew turns out to be slightly sweetish. And in the white malt brew, fermentation takes place mainly at the expense of malt and should not be "killed".
The GOST recipe you are looking at (I have been looking at it for several years now and will not make up my mind) just says that you should boil the flour with boiling water and add white malt when the mass cools down to 65 degrees.

You wrote that all HP have a timer on Pizza, but I don't have one at 253

Alexandra, I've corrected my mistake. Wrote without checking early models Thank you for correcting

Interestingly whey could give bitterness?

In general, the whey is sour, I have a lot of whey from goat milk in the process of making cottage cheese.
I also added to BREAD, but the coolest thing is whey pancakes, you throw a pinch of soda in hot ... and awesome thick fluffy pancakes

[asya7195]

asya7195, yesterday it turned out not sour at all. Today, rye was baked on it like Westphalian. I'll try tomorrow. Outwardly beautiful.

Rye with whey is probably great. With all my experiments, rye always comes out like Riga, but I want it like rye from a bakery. It seems to me that you cannot adapt his recipe purely for a bread machine ... I cannot, in any case

I'll try tomorrow. Outwardly beautiful.

Write tomorrow what it looks like)) interesting

It seems to me that you cannot adapt his recipe purely for a bread machine ... I cannot, in any case

Agree. I can not too.

Write tomorrow what it looks like)) interesting

OK

Write tomorrow what it looks like)) interesting

Looks like rye bread (I don't know how else to say).I haven't baked it for a long time. Sometimes you want rye. Then, this kind of bread suits me. Photo under the spoiler.

Recipe

Bread only on rye flour (like Westphalian) (Author Kosh) (Elena Bo)

I did not brew malt on whey, without Extra-R, with apple cider vinegar, without seeds. Baked on the Rye mode.

Explain what this is "pre-mix on dumplings" is often used when it comes to kneading dough. I read that it is advised to do the pre-mixing on dumplings, and then mix on the "main", if there are problems with the kneading ... I somehow got confused.
I want to use xp to knead any dough (and bake in the oven) and have not figured out which program to use for what. my recipes differ from those in the instructions. how to knead on them? if, for example, you need with dough or with leaven?

HP Model 2511

xn I want to use for kneading any dough (and bake in the oven)

Isn't it better to buy a kneader then? My opinion is not advisable to buy Panasonic only for the test.

no, I didn't write that I was buying HP ONLY for mixing (by the way, I bought it 2 days ago, so it's too late to take something else). but I don't see anything wrong with loving bread from the oven.

but I don't see anything wrong with loving bread from the oven.

I don't see it either, I just know that a kneader is preferable for the oven, not a bread maker.

Sadly, well, I shouldn't have bought a bread maker with my last money?

I am reporting on the problem with baking bread. Left the yeast the same. I changed the flour, removed the rye from the recipe. I didn’t look after the bun. The bread turned out, as always. The yeast is fine.

🔗
🔗

Check with the addition of rye.

Well, I shouldn't have bought a bread maker with my last money?

No, not in vain! She will help you out many, many times. Don't even hesitate! And then you yourself will not notice how you switch to baking bread in a bread maker. Good luck to you! You did the right thing!