"Eternal" leaven

kneaded
turned out oh-oh-oh-oh-very dense mass

Nothing, what I got when making a French sourdough:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=33627.0, and in the morning of the next day - the picture is just a beauty!

Viki !!!
She is so-ah-ah-ah !!!!!! Has grown in times 2.5-3 all bubbly. I put it near the battery. A lovely sight! Feed in the evening at the same time as you knead? or how will it fall?

Feed in the evening at the same time as you knead? or how will it fall?

In 24 hours!

Probably they wrote, but if possible again.
How much eternal leaven is needed for example for 500g. flour.
Or equivalent to dry yeast.
For example, 2 teaspoons of saf-moment are equal.

How much eternal leaven is needed for example for 500g. flour.
Or equivalent to dry yeast.
For example, 2 teaspoons of saf-moment are equal.

The fact is that sourdough bread is not a recipe, but a technology.
You will receive bread regardless of the initial amount of leaven.
Look here:
270 gr. starter cultures: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13102.0
500 gr. starter cultures: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=6466.0
50 gr. starter cultures: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13276.0
70 gr. starter cultures: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=65501.0
Try to start baking according to the recipes we already have and tested, and then it will go by itself.

Yesterday I baked the first sourdough bread in HP. Not a gram of yeast! Along the way, the roof blew open, but it didn't upset me much.
Recipe
10 tbsp. spoons of "eternal" leaven
250 ml serum
2h l. salt
1 st. l. Sahara
2 tbsp. l. rast. oils
1 st. l liquid malt
100 gr rye flour
400 gr of 1st grade flour
First, everything was calibrated on the Pizza Dough-1.30 mode, then turned off the HP and gave it to rise for 2 hours, then the Baking-mode -1.15.

In 24 hours!

Viki, yesterday fed after 24 hours, that is, at 18.00 local. and at 23.30 she was covered in bubbles and grew more than 3 times

But this morning she was already completely disgraced and I, afraid that she would oxyderate while I returned, fed her, without waiting for the evening (and I will return late, that is, at 18.00 I obviously cannot feed, at best at 21.00)
Ruined, huh?

Ruined, huh?

And she didn't ruin anything!
There is no leaven there now, but "building material" for the leaven. There must be active fermentation so that the wild yeast bacteria flock into the jar and settle in it. Now she will calm down a little. Further, it is better not to allow falling off.

Further, it is better not to allow falling off.

Viki,
thanks for the answer!
I'll be back late today and look at this beauty. let's say she grows up a little. what should I do next? hide it in the refrigerator (I bought a thermometer for the refrigerator the day before, showed it on the top shelf of 13 degrees C)? I can't look after her at night, I'm afraid to miss the moment, and she may collapse again ...

There must be active fermentation so that the wild yeast bacteria flock into the jar and settle in it. Now she will calm down a little.

You know, Viki, there seems to be no active fermentation ...
pets say that it has not grown at all (7.5 hours have passed since my alarmist morning feeding), only three deep funnels appeared ~ 3 mm in diameter, but not to the very bottom.

three deep craters appeared ~ 3 mm in diameter, but not to the very bottom.

Well, there was still not enough to go to the very bottom ...
Now she is already beginning to behave adequately. It is better, of course, to finish the cultivation process at normal room temperature and exactly by the clock, as in the first post from Luca. And then move to the cold.

Viki, something doesn't grow at all ...
Bubbles have been added, liquefied and the smell of fermentation is strong ...
I will look at her in the morning, suddenly grow up.
It's not clear what to do if she never grows up?
Already 60 hours have passed since the batch. The recipe had to feed 2 times, and I've done it twice already.
Put in the refrigerator after 3 days? Or do you need to feed additionally tomorrow? Or rest in the refrigerator? My head is spinning from my own questions

This is what she looks like (top view) 13.5 hours after this morning feed.
Yesterday I went so beautiful, and today - as if she were ill

Yesterday I went so beautiful, and today - as if she were ill

She was attracting bacteria yesterday. They arrived, now they will settle down more comfortably and begin to live and reproduce.
Keep it for 3 days, and then for storage. Feed tomorrow, of course.
And after 7 - 8 feedings she will be beautiful again. Usually the leaven is gaining strength by this time.

Keep it for 3 days, and then for storage. Feed tomorrow, of course.
And after 7 - 8 feedings she will be beautiful again. Usually the leaven is gaining strength by this time.

Viki, I do not understand, 3 more days to feed? Also once a day or for some reason?

Just three days for it to become leaven. It's your third day tomorrow, or I've lost count. In my opinion, there is still one feeding left.
Then take half of it from her and put it in the refrigerator.
Before baking, we take it out, let it warm up, feed it, and it has increased in batch.

I kneaded it on 12/11/2010 in the evening
fed 12.12.2010 in the evening
and today, as I saw that she had fallen completely, did not wait for the next evening feeding (she was afraid that while I returned from work, she would be completely weakened) and fed in the morning, that is, all the dressings according to the recipe were made, but the last one was 10 hours ahead of schedule
well, here's the result
she slowed down and looks and behaves as I wrote above

Feed her again in the morning. And in the evening we'll see, maybe we'll take half and send it to the refrigerator.

Feed her again in the morning. And in the evening we'll see, maybe we'll take half of it and send it to the refrigerator.

Viki, thank you so much for your help !!!
It is so necessary for beginners! Every step is subject to a lot of doubts. You are doing such a good deed !!! Low bow!

I opened it, the smell is like sour kefir, probably.
It tastes sour. I'll feed you now.

Maybe her food is not enough? It's already big (300x300).
Now I added 100x100 again. I hope he won't starve until evening

Maybe her food is not enough? It's already big (300x300).
Now I added 100x100 again. I hope he won't starve until evening

Until the evening is enough. And for a day better than 200 and 200, but I tupanula something ..... And the fact that it is big, so we will halve it in the evening.

And the day is better than 200 and 200

So can I ask my family to feed her? Or does she love to be fed by one person?

[Viki]

Came home, looked at the leaven
Behaves passively as before. Bubbles and nothing more. Doesn't grow. Strike?
Viki, I will wait for your instructions, because I do not know a bit what to do next.

I don't know a bit what to do next.

Can you feed in the morning and in the evening, so that 12 hours between feedings? Don't feel sorry for flour?

Can you feed in the morning and in the evening, so that 12 hours between feedings? Don't feel sorry for flour?

No, there is enough flour. About 12 hours, it won't work out very well, but it's only tomorrow, and then it will level out. In what proportion to feed? Do I need to half of today's leaven, or just find more dishes and feed them all?
And another question, I have it not far from the battery, it's warm there. Do I need to rearrange? Now I will measure the temperature there

In what proportion to feed? Do I need to half of today's leaven, or just find more dishes and feed them all?

I suggest: divide so as to take 100 gr. sourdough, give her 100 gr. flour - water and leave for a day as it is. Let her ferment well. In a day, we will smell the mash, which means we will "rejuvenate". And we feed the second in the same way, keep it for an hour or two on the table and put it in the refrigerator. If the first one is not "exhaled", then there will be a reserve.
When I divided like this, I usually brought both to my senses and then I could not choose which one to leave.

that is, in the morning after 12 hours do not feed? or in the morning again 100x100? and then we watch in the evening?

that is, in the morning after 12 hours do not feed? or in the morning again 100x100? and then we watch in the evening?

Let's feed the one that we already feed in the cold and send it to wait for its turn in the refrigerator, 1 - 2 hours after eating.
We will not feed the second part, we will leave it sour until morning. In the morning we take 100 gr. sourdough, give her 100 gr. flour and water and leave at room temperature for a day. The day after tomorrow morning we look at the beauty. It should not increase actively at this stage, only acidify.

We will not feed the second part, we will leave it sour until morning.

What a fool I am!
No wait for an answer ...
I've already fed everyone
And the one in the refrigerator, and the one that had to be left until tomorrow.
I do not understand well. I thought that 100 g of sourdough should be fed right now for further cultivation and left until tomorrow, and the rest should also be fed, kept for a couple of hours in the room and then in the refrigerator.
Now on the temperature questions: near the battery 29^aboutC, and in room 24-26^aboutC. Where is the smallest feeding portion better?
In the refrigerator on the top shelf 13^aboutS. I understand that this is what our big woman needs, right?

Of course, if there is 29 * C, it is very, very good.
We leave for a day. Sometimes we mix. Regardless of whether she stood motionless or rose and fell, after 24 hours we give her 100 grams. peeled rye flour and fresh water. And the day after tomorrow morning, if there is an opportunity to photograph her, please take a photo of our model. Whether there are bubbles inside or not, small or large. I'll be home from work by 8.00 and immediately to you.
Not such were nursed.

Not such were nursed.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You, Viki, know how to support!

if I'm going to bake bread, for example, tomorrow night, do I need to get out of the refrigerator and feed the sourdough already tonight? or tomorrow morning?

if I'm going to bake bread, for example, tomorrow night, do I need to get out of the refrigerator and feed the sourdough already tonight? or tomorrow morning?

From everything I read here, I understood that if the leaven is already strong (not young), then you can get it on the eve of baking, and if it is young, then Admin recommended somewhere (unfortunately I did not find it now) 2-3 days before baking and start feeding

"Eternal" on peeled rye
14/12/2010 22:30
I took 100 g of the sourdough that was inhibited in the development. She fed 100x100.
Sealed the top with a film, pierced many holes with a toothpick. I put it in warm t 29-30.

15/12/2010 09:00
Rose a little, no bubbles. After 3 hours - no change. Stirred.

15/12/2010 22:30
Rose a little (as before stirring), without bubbles, slightly liquefied and darkened, the smell is vinegar. She fed 100x100. I marked the level with an elastic band.
I put it in warm t 29-30.

16/12/2010 09:00
There are small bubbles. It rose a little, you can see it on the label on the bank. The smell is still very sour, but less harsh.

View from above


16/12/2010 22:30

Rose a little more than 2p., Bubbled. The smell is sour, still harsh. Begins to stretch with porous threads. She fed 200x200.

17/12/2010 12:00
Has risen twice. The smell is good sour. Stirred, put it in the refrigerator on the top shelf (+13^aboutFROM).

End of story

There are small bubbles. It rose a little, you can see it on the label on the bank. The smell is still very sour, but less harsh.

Fine!
The rise is as it should be on peeled flour. The smell should not be sharp at all. She ripens actively. Keep it up!

Viki, if I bake bread every 3 days, can I keep the starter outside the refrigerator? feed her daily and keep her on the windowsill. something like this.

Viki, if I bake bread every 3 days, can I keep the starter outside the refrigerator? feed her daily and keep her on the windowsill. something like this.

If it is possible to keep the leaven not in the refrigerator, that is, to feed it daily, it is just happiness, especially for the leaven.
After all, you can hold 50 grams. and before baking, feed so that there is a lot of it.

OK thanks! You put me at ease

She ripens actively. Keep it up!

Got it. In the evening I feed on schedule.I will post a photo (before feeding) and a description in the evening in an old message with a photo session. I never tire of thanking !!!

Everything, I give up !!!! I apologize a lot, citizens, I understand everything, for the entire existence of this topic, such a question was asked, probably more than once, But there is no way for me, I’ve been studying the topics for the second week ... but instead of insight, there’s a mess in my head ... So , I grew sourdough, baked bread, added a little yeast for the first try, I really liked it, like a real Darnitsky (I added 0.5 tsp a little malt for color). The second part of the sourdough rests in the refrigerator for 5 days and here is a stopper! What to do with her next ?! The first topic describes the process of making a leaven, but how to revive it? same? Three days to feed again? Then where is the point of storing it? you can cook again every time .... I understand that and I understand that I don't understand anything! It is possible, without references to other topics and referrals, to paint for stupid ones, like, we take it from the refrigerator, pour flour and water in grams, wait N hours, and so on. Sorry again, well, I can't get to the answer on my own. Don't kick ...

As a young baker to a young baker
I understand that before you put it into action (dough), you need to get it out of the refrigerator, heat it to room temperature, feed it and wait until it doubles, and then it's time to start mixing it.
The proportions of feeding are probably not less than the weight of the starter culture itself, that is, if the weight of the starter culture is 100 g, then it is better to feed not less than 100 g of flour + 100 g of water.
And the amount of ready-made starter culture (and after feeding and doubling it is just ready), as a rule, is indicated in the recipes.
As for the time the starter is ready, it rather depends on its age and depends on external factors of type t in the room or on how long it has been in the refrigerator. It may take from 3 to 8 hours.
I helped as much as I could ...

Arka, thanks! Looks like I confused myself from the overabundance of information! Climbed in the wrong place.

Looks like I confused myself from the overabundance of information!

Only the porridge in my head has settled down
probably not worth trying to cover all the information in a couple of evenings

So
I thought that only I had porridge
good people, tomorrow is the 3rd day of sourdough, and I just didn't understand which recipe to bake pure rye, everyone seems to be good, but it would be easier for me to start, so that the enthusiasm does not disappear))
advise, pliz, if not difficult, a recipe for pure rye (preferably) for a starter novice - it is possible for HP, it is possible for the oven
Thank you

[How to store the leaven.]

How to store the leaven.

There are many opinions on this topic, keep in the refrigerator or at room temperature, and everyone must decide for themselves.

Let me tell you my opinion: you can keep it this way and that way. Bread baked with sourdough stored in the refrigerator will, in any case, be better than bread bought at the store.

I will only tell you what to do with the leaven in order to maintain it in working order under any storage conditions, relying only on experience, and not only mine.

If you keep starter culture in the refrigerator, you don't need to store much of it. After all, before baking, you will need to get it out, let it warm up and feed it, and then let it rise, that is, work to tone it up and get hungry again. Only now can you knead the bread dough. If you have 50 - 100 grams in the refrigerator. sourdough, that's enough. Try to feed so that the weight of the flour when feeding is not less than the weight of the starter itself. This means that you cannot feed 50 grams. starter culture in less than 50 gr. flour and 50 gr. water. Of course, you can find information somewhere on the Internet that you can, but I express my opinion and focus only on experience. So, more is possible, less is impossible. Keep in mind that you need to get three numbers as a result: the amount of sourdough for bread, a little for further storage, and a certain amount will surely be smeared on the dishes and will not be available.

If you store your starter culture at room temperature, then you need to focus on temperature and time. It is not difficult to change the feeding proportions.
The higher the room temperature, the greater the proportion.
For example, with the usual 20 - 22 * ​​C, it is enough to take 5 grams. sourdough and add 20 gr. water and 20 gr. flour. Enough for a day.
If yours is cool, say 15 * C, then you need to take 10 grams. sourdough and feed 20 gr. water and 20 gr. flour, and you can and 25 - 30 gr. you will pick it up yourself after several feedings.
At 25 * C, the proportions must be increased. There is already for every 10 grams. starter culture will need 50 gr. water and 50 gr. flour.
And if you are a lover of heat, then 10 grams. starter cultures will need to be taken in 100 grams. water and flour.
This is how you can store the leaven, feed it every day.
When you are going to bake bread, it is enough for you to take part of the sourdough and feed it for baking. For example: there is 45 gr. sourdough - I take 40 gr. I give them flour and water as much as I need for bread, and I feed the rest for storage.

poor Marina, at me, yes, yes, now I read a new topic again, and even 40 pages ((((well, let's try to cook the eternal leaven

poor Marina

Do not!!!! Aaaaaa, just don't throw anything out now !!!!!!!!
We will overfeed your sourdough !!!!!
Did you have time?

Everything, I give up !!!! I apologize a lot, citizens, I understand everything, for the entire existence of this topic, such a question was asked, probably more than once, But there is no way for me, I’ve been studying the topics for the second week ... but instead of insight, there’s a mess in my head ... So , I grew sourdough, baked bread, added a little yeast for the first try, I really liked it, like a real Darnitsky (I added 0.5 tsp a little malt for color). The second part of the sourdough rests in the refrigerator for 5 days and here is a stopper! What to do with her next ?! The first topic describes the process of making a leaven, but how to revive it? same? Three days to feed again? Then where is the point of storing it? you can cook again every time .... I understand that and I understand that I don't understand anything! It is possible, without references to other topics and referrals, to paint for stupid ones, like, we take it from the refrigerator, pour flour and water in grams, wait N hours, and so on. Sorry again, well, I can't get to the answer on my own. Don't kick ...

Take it out of the refrigerator and feed it for 2-3 days - this is for a young sourdough. I understand that you just have her young, a few days old? It turns out your case. And later, when the leaven gets stronger, it will be enough just to take out the refrigerator, feed it once - and go to work. It seems so .... If not right, correct me, experienced leavers

advise, pliz, if not difficult, a recipe for pure rye (preferably) for a starter novice - it is possible for HP, it is possible for the oven
Thank you

There is a bunch of them, any one suits your sourdough, so don't look at the names of sourdoughs, this is a convention:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&board=257.0
and also rye-wheat: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&board=247.0