"Eternal" leaven

And mine had already eaten all the bread, so I took out the leaven that had ripened yesterday from the refrigerator, took 100 g, heated it, fed it 100x100, stands near the battery, grows, pleases the eye I will be a rye oven again
And everything is made possible by people like Viki!
Viki, this is for you
It's good that you don't leave newbies unattended! And you will find advice for everyone, and you will revive any starter culture!

[Arka]

Arka, Thanks for the kind words!
I am glad that you have started to succeed.
Good luck !!!

Viki, good morning and I hope a good day So, about my poor MKZ, I'll go and feed her now (I got it from the refrigerator in the evening), I have an incomplete 0.5 liter jar (it grew up overnight), I add 100/100 water / flour, maybe you need more, but there is no time to wait for an answer - in half an hour I run to work (((, and in the evening I will come for the control center

I add 100/100 water / flour

Everything is correct.

thanks for the reactivity

but what to do with the second jar? too overfeed or leave it as an MKZ, then feed her now too?

As you wish. She'll stay there for a week. Suddenly you will not like this one ...

There is a bunch of them, any one suits your sourdough, so don't look at the names of sourdoughs, this is a convention:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&board=257.0

well, in these wilds I got confused

thanks to everyone who responded
and the leaven grew and grew and froze
put her now in the bathroom, on the battery)

Viki, let's work on))) can I put some bread on the sourdough that I fed this morning?

[sea39]

sea39 , of course! You have a completely working product.
In three to four feedings in the proportion of one part of the starter culture + one part of water + one part of flour, it will be ready for storage without a refrigerator. https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=41.0

And here is the rye custard on "eternal"
stood overnight in the refrigerator, fermented, as it came after the refrigerator, baked at 1:30.


Only the roof cracked for some reason ... What to do with it next time?

And here is the rye custard on "eternal"

Wow! Yes, they turn out one more beautiful than the other!
Cracked, it looks like there was not enough moisture. Just a little.
But in general, here it is somehow customary in Temko about bread, well, where is this recipe, show pictures. So that everyone can see what kind of bread can be baked according to this recipe. - I hint .... and the author is pleased.

[Viki]

Viki, sorry if off topic, and thanks for the "hints"
I just took the recipe in my head somehow by itself, but I can't give it out for my own ... (addition: I read all the rye recipes again, I haven't studied others yet due to lack of time, - there is no similar recipe there, so , we can assume that it dawned on me)
Probably, I read everything on the forum and at first everything got mixed up, and then surfaced in the form of this recipe. (addition: there is really a lot of information in my head, and the recipe uses ideas that I will definitely point out links to or authorship)
I'll tell you how I did it, and you really move it somewhere where it belongs

I took a well-eaten and doubled "eternal" - 380 g (this is how much I got as a result of feeding)
300 g peeled rye flour
110 g of premium quality wheat flour (I decided to add it on a whim, because I thought it would help the bread rise)
250 ml water
+160 ml of boiling water to brew hw. malt 35 g
added 1.5 tsp to the malt thick. salt and 1 tbsp. l. cane sugar
cumin 1.5 tsp
coriander 1.5 tsp + for sprinkling 1 tbsp. l.
1-2 tbsp. l. oil (I prefer olive)

I kneaded it in HP for 15 minutes, helped with a spatula, did not add all of the wheat flour, I added it from the rest during kneading (if my memory serves, it seemed to me a little thin and I added more than the indicated grams, but apparently in vain, since you say that there is no water enough, and therefore the roof cracked)

I put the dough into a porcelain bowl, covered it with plastic wrap, put it in the refrigerator overnight. You can ferment in the cold for 12-24 hours (I read about this at Son right here


And here's another fresh one, only completely on rye flour, according to the same recipe.


Again there are cracks, even on the side, and not just on the roof.
Is there really not enough water? 1: 1 water with flour.
The crumb is good. The taste is wonderful!

Well, I got a computer for use))) Viki, I don’t know what kind of sourdough sourdough (MKZ or eternal?), but it doesn’t matter :) Vladimir Vasilyevich's recipe "1st grade flour bread", but I did not find 1, so as usual premium flour 450g + 50g rye bran, so the bread is not white. Kneading at 23-00 on pizza + French with a timer, I forgot to take a picture of the crumb., I used potato broth, I didn't think that I needed to reduce the salt, it turned out salty
I added 3 tbsp, l of broth on a kolobok, but the roof blew off, so you needed more water?
🔗
🔗

r when the bun was kneading, the dough from under the shaft was not elastic in my opinion, but as if "waves with foam", I cannot explain, the dough is not homogeneous and at the same time clings to the walls with its end, I would also add a decoction, the dough would become softer, but why does it stick to the walls, because this is an indicator of an excess of water or not?

and tell me how to measure the leaven in grams, I just measured it in spoons according to the recipe :) Viki. do not leave me a little more, but I ask you what and how, ok? feed sourdough every day? pour the finished one and put it in the refrigerator, and add more on the rest?

the dough would become softer, but why does it stick to the walls, because this is an indicator of an excess of water or not?

No, this is an indicator of the presence of a potato broth. So it sticks. But soft and elastic.

how to measure the leaven in grams

The scales would be for you, eh? Not necessarily expensive, not in a pharmacy, but electronic ... I can't measure with spoons in three years, I beg your pardon.

feed sourdough every day? pour the finished one and put it in the refrigerator, and add more on the rest?

For "outdoor" storage (without a refrigerator), once a day is the minimum. In the fridge - once a week is a must. This, of course, is to have a working and healthy leaven.
I wrote there for you, I hope you saw:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=41.0

:) Viki. do not leave me a little more, but I ask you what and how, ok?

Where am I going to go. I disappear with enviable consistency after three days on the fourth, but I always appear. I have a job in three days.

Viki, I keep pestering too. Finally, breaking the roof begins to strain me. I already want beauty. What to do so that it doesn't get ripped off? more water?

more water?

Either a little more water, or a little more proofing.

exactly! most likely it's the proofing. Considering that Mulka has some short modes, there is simply not enough proofing time.

So you turn off the stove, let the bread grow, then put it on the baking. I even sometimes left it in the cold after kneading overnight, until morning I just grew up, and baked.

So you turn off the stove, let the bread grow, then put it on the baking. I even sometimes left it in the cold after kneading overnight, until morning I just grew up, and baked.

himichka, that's what I need. I wanted to talk to the moulinexopeek. Honestly, I didn't quite understand what it means "in the cold"?

Moulinex has long been retired - baking in the oven.

For some reason - well, it's too late to bake, but you can knead just right - after kneading, cover the bucket with a bag and in the refrigerator (I have a hallway, in winter there are 10 degrees). By morning, the dough just grows to the top of the bucket. Send it for baking.

yeah, but if you do not send it to the cold, but leave it in a bucket at room temperature, then in 2-3 hours it will just grow to the desired size

[Viki]

Viki,
have a question
I fed my "eternal". I took 165 g +165 g flour + 165 g water = 495 g total.
As it doubled, it turned out 565 (gained 70 g in weight).
What kind of trick is this? Or am I cheated or she not only eats, but also produces something?

What kind of trick is this?

Maybe the weight of the jar is 70 g.

Maybe the weight of the jar is 70 g.

no, I zeroed the jar, then I dropped the leaven into it
and you definitely won't blame the jar, because I use glass ones, and they will be heavier than 70 g

An interesting sourdough you have, it should lose weight due to the fact that carbon dioxide evaporates ...

just about, and something is always smeared on the walls
even had to recount flour and water urgently
maybe the scales lied ... at the initial stage, before feeding

and only today I discovered that for 3 days I have been feeding my "eternal" type of rye sourdough with 2 grade wheat flour. And what is it called now? Such a beauty. Blond Wheat now, or what?

Lady!
Doubts arose: isn't my "eternal" too sour?
Mine looks like sorrel, I guess. It does not pull on vinegar, but sour milk is still superior in acidity. Stands in the refrigerator for 5 days after feeding.
Can anyone provide an accurate comparison of sourdough taste by acid? She's as sour as ... what?

[Arka]

Arka, I would also become sour in 5 days in the refrigerator.
What is in your refrigerator, as we have already said, is not suitable for baking, it needs to be warmed, fed and allowed to double. Then the acid will not be so saturated. And there will be a working leaven again. And to feed a couple of times, it will be even more active.
Update it, that is, take a part and feed it in a larger proportion. For example: 40 gr. + 100 water and flour each.
Five days - it's time to feed !!!

Viki,
Thank you!
And can I feed her with wheat (there is only a / c), so that then bake pancakes?

The part that is for pancakes is wheat, and the part for storage further is rye in order to preserve the breed.

The part that is for pancakes is wheat

Viki, thanks!
Do I need to feed several days for pancakes, and will it behave differently when feeding than rye?

good evening Viki, baked 2 sourdough bread, sour aftertaste, is it just me? how to get rid of it? can I transfer the second leaven to wheat for white bread?

[Arka]

Arka, I would not overfeed the sourdough especially for the pancakes for three days, you can feed it once.

sea39, acetic acid accumulates in the leaven. The longer it stands, the more sour. You can feed 20 gr. starter cultures 100 gr. water and 100 gr. flour, for example, by reducing the amount of acid and not overdoing it. Doubled - to determine by purpose.
If it is not important for you to give up industrial yeast, then the easiest way is to add 1 g. dry (or 2 grams. fresh) yeast, this will give a "kick" for the rise during proofing. The dough will rise in an hour - one and a half maximum and the leaven will not have time to accumulate acid.
To overfeed rye sourdough for wheat flour, it is fed three times in a 1: 1: 1 ratio (sourdough: water: wheat flour) and allowed to double in the heat (23 - 28 * C approximately). Doubled, so it's time to feed. Here time depends on the temperature. On average 6 - 8 hours. Try it.

thanks, Viki

Guru and sen-sei! Need a consultation! The leaven is eternal, it has already been fed three times (once every five days), that is, it is more than two weeks old. I took 100 grams, added 200 grams of flour and 200 ml of water, set it to double, after 6-7 hours everything bubbled up pretty. I put 300 grams in a bucket, bake in HP mule 5004, the recipe was taken here, I don't remember whose, but I adjusted it a little to my taste. I baked it on a semi-finished product, it turned out super! Only a little crust on the roof burst. So:
300 gr sourdough
150 g rye
250 g of wheat premium (I did not like the taste on the first grade)
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
250 ml water
yeast added just on the bottom of a measuring teaspoon, about 1/8
1 tsp salt
0.5 tsp malt for color and aroma
Program 5 French bun time 3.40 weight 750 g light crust.
The dough rose remarkably, but during baking the roof did not bend like a dome, but remained flat, and after "taking out" it sagged slightly. The crumb is baked, the taste is what you need, Darnitsa store, only tastier! What's wrong? Maybe my sourdough has already matured and yeast is no longer needed? Although I read that when baking in KhP, yeast still needs to be added, I once tried to bake without yeast, it turned out garbage, it was not sticky and sticky, but then the leaven was still very young.The gingerbread man turned out to be a little thinner than that of wheat, too, I read somewhere that for rye the consistency is a little thinner. I am not a magician, I am just learning, I have HP only for a month and a half. All hope is on you! I have achieved the right taste, I want the form to be.
Here is my bread

[Marussia]

Marussiawhat a beautiful crumb!
And if you want a beautiful top, just reduce the amount of liquid. How much? This is perhaps an empirical way. Start with 30 grams. if there are cracks on the roof, return a little. It is difficult to guess here, because a lot also depends on the mood of the leaven. But yours seems to be determined!

Viki, thanks! On your semi-finished product, it turns out the opposite, I add more water, and it tears the roof! But the taste is super! Now I’ll go and put a new one, I promised my relatives to send a hot bread in exchange for bacon, I’ll reduce the water, we’ll see! Everything, as they say, by typing!

[Marussia]

Marussia, good luck !!!
First, take the bacon, and then give the bread, otherwise with such bread you can all the bacon and "dull".

Only from hand to hand! I put the leaven, I will report on the results! And the lard from the village was brought ... I already choked with saliva! And what about the yeast, add it as a safety net or take the risk ?!

And what about the yeast, add it as a safety net or take the risk ?!

Risk, as you know, is a noble cause ... but I would add and regulate it with liquid. Try to remember the consistency of the dough so that you can tweak it next time.

I also think so, after all, the time of raising in HP is not enough, and I don't really like the oven, maybe I'll switch to it over time. In the meantime, I'll play with HP! Viki, thanks for the promptness!

Good evening, Viki, I bother you again, judging by the number of questions in Temko, there are a lot of people like me, I ask you: can I "live" with your starter for a while? so that you write everything to us in such detail, today I will bake bread, fed 100/100, put the rest in the refrigerator, or the like? : flowers: so, you look and we will learn, I honestly try to learn how to work with sourdough, but I don't yet understand what I am doing
it seems like I printed everything separately, how to feed it, how to store it, and put everything together well, no way (((please

I ask you: can I "live" with your starter for a while? So that you would write to us in such detail, today I will bake bread, fed 100/100, put the rest in the refrigerator, or so on? : flowers: so, you look and we will learn

The fact is that I have been there for three days and not for a day ... and so all the time.
I haven't kept the sourdough for a long time, so I can feed it without throwing it away, and even more so in such quantities. They are only justified when grown. Where it is 100 to 100 and 12 hours warm, I know for sure that she grows healthy and beautiful.
I am a supporter of storage and feeding like this:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=41.0 plus the obligatory refreshing 6 - 8 hours before baking in the proportions required for baking, and this is not always one hundred percent moisture. And yet, I do not completely exclude purchased yeast from my life, using 1 - 2 grams each. - just enough to keep the proofing in 1 hour.
For example: Darnitsky: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=100332.new#new
Russian (Orlovsky): https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=65501.0

eh, girls, tell me, pliz
the first attempt to grow sourdough from peeled rye ended in failure, after 2 days it stopped growing, etc., I waited a couple more days, kept it near the battery, but was unsuccessful, mold grew)) - I threw everything away, decided that it was chilly for her.

the second attempt was made the day before yesterday evening, the sourdough again worked great, last night I fed it up, put it in a warm place, after 2 hours my son shouted: Mom, she’s getting out of the can! )) I look - for sure, it worked, and already there is not enough space for her - I put it into a glass jug, preheated it with warm water, put it neatly and put it in the same place ... and she stopped working, today I came home from work - I come up - and it stands still, just a few bubbles, mildew white on top and no foam

was it really my peak on the second day?

[Lenka_minsk]

Lenka_minsk, unfortunately, it happens that the flour is unhealthy, sometimes the time and place just does not suit it. Try to start it with yeast, so at least there will be disinfection. Look in the topic about rye "semi-finished product": https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=42973.0
But you can continue to feed it all and even store it without a refrigerator. It turns out the same "eternal", only grown easier and with a guarantee.

Viki, do you bake sourdough bread? keep it in the refrigerator? I think I saw your gallery of starter cultures in "French"?