French modern sourdough (liquid)

... if I want to bake rye bread, I will feed the sourdough with rye flour for the last time

I usually "hold" a French woman with wheat, shore the "breed" When I want to bake rye bread, I take a couple of spoons and feed it with rye flour. As it matures, I knead the dough. And I feed the main sourdough with wheat flour and only wheat.

Thank you very much!!! Thanks to you, I have finally grown the leaven. Failed three times with eternal leaven, and the Frenchwoman took root the first time.

Yesterday I baked my first bread Farm


There were a couple of questions:
1. I got it (110 + 110 water + 110 flour = 330 g of sourdough) at the last stage of ripening. I sent 100 grams to bread, 20 grams fed 40 water + 40 flour - 1-1.5 in warmth, then on the windowsill (+19 degrees) - that was 12 hours ago, is it necessary to feed her now? And what is the best way to feed "division"? That is, from 20 + 40 + 40 = 100 grams, we take 20 grams again and we are already feeding them, or we need all 100 grams. feed, I'm not going to bake today. And in what proportion is it better to feed 1: 2: 2, or is it already possible to feed 1: 4: 4.?
2. Also for the sake of reinsurance, from yesterday's ready-made sourdough (from 330g.) I took 40g and fed 40 + 40 -1-1.5 in the warmth, and then put it in the refrigerator, do you need to feed it? how often? Or if you bake in 2-3 days, is it enough to feed her just before baking?
I just want to bake bread with sourdough from the refrigerator, so that I can feel the difference and understand how important it is for me to keep sourdough outside the refrigerator.

[marish_kay]

marish_kay, congratulations on your first child!
When I hold a Frenchwoman, I stock up on flour specifically. Because the first week I try to feed her in the proportion of how much leaven, so much water and the same amount of flour. She very quickly becomes strong, strong despite the fact that it is not at all sour. But the last one started from the first day to feed like you, that is, for 20 g of sourdough, 40 g of water and 40 g of flour and was surprised, I did not notice a difference in behavior, and feed less often. Still, two or three feedings a day are essential.
In the refrigerator, I kept no more than 50 grams. sourdough and started working with it a day before baking. She took one spoonful of sourdough and fed at first 40-50 g of water and flour, then 100 g each, while not allowing her to accumulate acid. "Doubled - we feed" - it's like the law. I feel the difference in the taste of bread and the quality of the crumb when the leaven is from the refrigerator and when it is not, and my family says that it is the same. So .... until you try it yourself, do not determine what you like best.
Although, I transferred my last Frenchwoman to storage in the refrigerator, where it was stable at 12 * C and fed exactly as the French do. For every 100 g of starter culture, 100 g of water and 100 g of flour, then either an hour at room temperature and cold for 72 hours, or 3 hours at room temperature and cold for a day. Then it can be used directly from the refrigerator without feeding. Sometimes she didn't even let me get warm, but used lukewarm water in the dough. It was very convenient for me, because I worked in the schedule after three days and the baking was also obtained according to the schedule, we bake for two days and rest for three days.
So ... only by experience can you determine where your option is.
Good luck to you!

Tell me, please, if it is not possible to store the starter culture at + 12, what will be the optimal temperature of +10 or +15?

Tell me, please, if it is not possible to store the starter culture at + 12, what will be the optimal temperature of +10 or +15?

And that fits, and that! At ten it will warm up a little longer, at fifteen it will feed a little more often. The main thing is not less than + 10 * С. To be honest, I like +15 more.

[Viki]

I really like this leaven, I have been baking it for almost 2 years, now my bread with yeast refuses to eat, as if they understand something.
Viki, thank you for your advice, for answering sometimes very stupid questions.

And that fits, and that! At ten it will warm up a little longer, at fifteen it will feed a little more often. The main thing is not less than + 10 * С. To be honest, I like +15 more.

OK, I trust the opinion of the pros
And here's another, completely confused in the proportions for feeding. As I understand it, it is necessary to take 5 grams of the already grown sourdough, add 20 grams of flour and water, leave until the next feeding? And the leftovers - in a jar, for pancakes?

[Sandrine]

Sandrine, it all depends on how often and what you will bake.
For one bread, I take a spoon or two and feed it overnight, while for the other I need half a kilo of leaven.
It is better to feed the young leaven so that for each part of the leaven there is the same part of water and flour, i.e. 50 g of leaven (for example) + 50 g of water and 50 g of flour. He grows up a little, then the proportions can be increased.

Good day.

I grew a French sourdough. Thank you all for the science. Both VIKI and OMELA are great fellows.
already wanted to brag and jump for joy that everything went smoothly and without problems, but but
but here's my failure. The bread is bitter and the leaven itself is bitter. I taste everything - flour and water and malt. And it turns out that malt is bitter.
Here's my question.
Do you really have to throw out all the leaven or this bitterness will go away with time.

PS I have already drawn conclusions. All products must be tasted in their original form on the tongue.

... it turns out that malt is bitter.
Do you really have to throw out all the leaven or this bitterness will go away with time.

Please tell us how many birthdays are your starter culture?
And we will fix it quickly. The older she is, the faster.

Please tell us how many birthdays are your starter culture?
And we will fix it quickly. The older she is, the faster.

three days without a couple of hours.
I even divided it seven hours ago into wheat and grain

three days without a couple of hours.

To make the bitterness go away, you need to update it in several stages. It would be an adult, it would be easier, it would be possible to give her for 20 g of sourdough, 100 g of water and flour. But with the kids it is a little more difficult.
Determine how much sourdough you take (so that you don't feel sorry for flour) and add the same amount of water and flour to it. Let's say 50g of sourdough plus 50 water and 50 flour, as it doubles, immediately discard the excess so that 50g remains again and feed again 50g of water and flour. I'm not sure for two, but for three feedings the bitterness should go away completely. The main thing is to keep it at room temperature and not let it fall. Otherwise, with peroxidation, the bitterness will only intensify.

Thank you
we will work and strive to improve

Dear starters! And tell me, please, at what temperature does your leaven (already withdrawn) feel comfortable, that is, it rises briskly, bubbles? She, as I can see, is quite thermophilic. Yesterday I rejuvenated my Frenchwoman, doubled in 15 hours at a temperature of about 23-24 degrees (this is on the table by the battery). She's still young (but she already had time to turn sour, that's why she made her younger), I decided to test her up, here's what I did - I took 50 grams, fed 1: 2 (in the old topic, Zest offered a scheme, I wrote it out) and left it on the night is just on the kitchen table (there was somewhere between 18-19). During the night it barely moved. I moved it to the battery and it seemed like the process started, started playing. So it turns out that the room temperature is not suitable for her? How else can you provide her comfort? Put in the microwave with a cup of boiling water? In the oven with a light bulb? Or is it just that she has not yet adapted and after a while will be able to rise even at 18-20 degrees?

... please tell me, at what temperature does your leaven (already withdrawn) feel comfortable, that is, it rises briskly, bubbles?

That's why I have always loved a modern French woman!
At any temperature above 12 degrees and this I have always used.
I will feed it so that for every 100g of sourdough there is 100g of water and 100g of flour, and then it will grow as I want. Put it in a warm place - after a couple of hours I'm already kneading the dough, leave it on the table - knead it after 4-5 hours. Or I can put it in my little fridge in three hours, there +12 and knead it in a day. And I can put it in the refrigerator in an hour on the table and knead it after three days. And she was always cheerful, and always ready to work.

Put it in a warm place - after a couple of hours I'm already kneading the dough ...

That is, if it doubled in the heat - can you safely put it into the dough? And if left at the same temperature, will it peroxide?
And here's another ... And what is the minimum amount of sourdough you would advise to keep in order to feed in smaller quantities, if I don't bake ...? Gram 30? fifty?

And what is the minimum amount of sourdough you would advise to keep in order to feed in smaller quantities, if I do not bake ...? Gram 30? fifty?

I just kept 40 grams on the table and fed it 3 times a day. In the cold I put 50 grams to feed it before baking, and sometimes a couple of times, first 100 grams, then another 200, but I immediately booted half a kilo of it into bread. And when I cooked for tomorrow, I fed it so that there was half a kilo in bread and there was still 20 grams left to feed. I kept it for 3 hours just on the table, then at plus twelve, and tomorrow baking. She is universal. Over time, you will decide which is more convenient for you. Good luck to you!

[kava]

Well, we made friends with a Frenchwoman, I hope seriously and for a long time! First I tried it in a bun from kava... Incredibly tasty and aromatic! She baked bread from Zest, until tasted, cools down. Thanks to everyone who shares their experience and gives good advice!

I'm still in the process
I study, read, try different options with flour at a temp. In short, all cans and jars
filled with samples. The starter culture is beautiful: elastic, aromatic and viscous !!! same
the achievement is that the bitterness is gone (feeding after the fifth approx.).

half a kilo of it in bread immediately booted.

VIKI half a kilo how is it? You can alter any cotton recipe, that is, instead of 250 grams of flour + 250 ml of water, add half a kilo of sourdough ???

I can't do it 3 times ... but I really need it. does not bubble and that's it ...

but very much needed.

if 14anna08 is not difficult for you, tell us, "you really need" - what is this for? I chose this starter because of its "French" origin. So I'm wondering why is it (sourdough) interesting (pardon the pun)?

To your question, I am a dilettante from my bell tower, but who has begun to carry out various experiments on this Zakvak one, I can say that a lot of the success of the business depends on MUKI. On wheat of the highest grade - things are deaf, like in a tank ((((she loves very coarse grinding and durum wheat, "French" what can you do?

here I will try on a coarse grind then, while 3 times I tried rye in parallel, I used up everything (not for this leaven of course).
it is very necessary because the child cannot eat yeast bread.

if 14anna08 is not difficult for you, tell us, "you really need" - what is this for? I chose this starter because of its "French" origin. So I'm wondering what it (sourdough) is interesting in (pardon the pun)?

To your question, I am a dilettante from my bell tower, but who has begun to carry out various experiments on this Zakvak one, I can say that a lot of the success of the business depends on MUKI. On wheat of the highest grade - things are deaf, like in a tank ((((she loves very coarse grinding and durum wheat, "French" what can you do?

Why won't it work at the highest level? For almost 2 years I have been baking with this sourdough and from the first time it turned out and it was on the highest grade, because you simply cannot find another one with fire. I have had today's leaven since July. But the fact that flour plays a role and is not unimportant, I agree, just like water, I pour for mine from the tap, sometimes from a filter, but rarely, the temperature in the room is also not a small factor.

Anyut, you interfere with her fingers, only "not sterile".

Why won't it work at the highest level?

You seem to have forgotten how it happens the first time
You are worried, you do everything as in the dark, by touch ... And, if there is a choice, for the best result, of course, the initial products should be as suitable as possible. IMHO.

PS from the tap to take water, I will not under any conditions, and interfere with my fingers ... somehow it ...

[14anna08]

and interfere with your fingers ... somehow ...

My fingers helped me! Once interfered and she immediately went to growth.

14anna08
Here in the old topic I found such an algorithm from Raisin, maybe it will help you too.

Take 50 g and feed 50 flour + 50 water. How will it grow to the maximum -
take 50 g and feed 100 flour + 100 water, as it grows,
take 50 g of sourdough and feed 100 g flour + 100 water + 1 tsp. honey + 1 tsp. rye flour.
By this time, the leaven should come to life.

In the process of growing the feed was 1st grade, now I switched to the highest, today I threw a pinch of rye (it is recommended once a week). And into her warmth, into the warmth, closer to the radiator! My standing on the table does not want to grow-bubble.

You seem to have forgotten how it happens the first time
You are worried, you do everything as in the dark, by touch ... And, if there is a choice, for the best result, of course, the initial products should be as suitable as possible. IMHO.

PS from the tap to take water, I will not under any conditions, and interfere with my fingers ... somehow it ...

No, I just didn't forget, I remember very well how I turned her on, ran and looked into the jar, but I didn't think of tap water and fingers, but it really helps.

The second time I am looking for some and using this leaven. The first - in the summer, unfortunately, in the heat, it oxydated me. Smelled good, but did not rise at all.
Now my new starter culture is a week old. It all started so great. Fermented at room temperature - 25-26 degrees. Three times increase. Bread immediately without yeast baked. But ... She became kind of lethargic. At first it smelled very nice of apples, now it does not smell at all !!!!! There were huge holes in both the leaven and the bread. Now there are small holes, the surface does not look like a seething one at all. At the same time, the other part, which lived on the balcony in the harsh conditions of 10 degrees, even smelled very much and it looked wow. But I wanted to revive my room, I mixed them and did not achieve a positive result.
I feed 3 times a day: at 9 am, 3 pm and 11 pm. I tried to feed 1: 1: 1, 1: 2: 2. Now there is bread and it rises very badly
After 6 hours of feeding 1: 2: 2 I tasted - sour, but the smell of hochchtsa-ah-ah !!!! Once she over-acidified me - did not have time to feed at 9 in the morning. I want my starter starter
Another interesting information from the site of yeast producers Saf - that the dough with sourdough (it turns out they also produce dry sourdoughs) cannot be kneaded for a long time - it is enriched with oxygen, which reacts with aromatic molecules and the smell "oxidizes" and disappears. Maybe my starter has lost its aroma from whipping too much with a fork
This is my starter story.

Information from the site of yeast producers 🔗
The taste of the bread can also be influenced by the dough method. These are long-term cold technologies, doughs and starters. What is leaven? This is a phase made from wheat or rye flour and water, subjected to lactic acid fermentation. The term "leaven" is interpreted differently in different countries. So, for example, in France "levain" - "for lifting and loosening"; in Great Britain - "sour dough" - acidification; in Germany - "Sauerteig" also mean acidification; in Spain - "masa madre" - "for the rise"; in Russia to "ferment" means to acidify.

It is known that flour contains about 5-6 strains of "wild" yeast and about 30 (sometimes up to 50) species of lactic acid bacteria.
Homofermentative bacteria form lactic acid and aromatic substances during fermentation.Due to their vital activity, there is an active accumulation of acids. They practically do not participate in loosening the dough. During fermentation, heteroenzymatic bacteria form acetic and lactic acids, some CO2 and aromatic substances. These bacteria in the starter cultures and in the dough are not only acid formers, but also play an essential role in loosening the dough. The duration and temperature of the ripening of the starter culture affect the pH of the medium, the duration of the fermentation of the dough, as well as the shelf life of the finished product (they protect against potato disease and mold).

Succinic, malic, tartaric, citric acids are essential in the formation of the taste and aroma of rye bread, the share of which reaches 8% of the total composition of the crumb acids. Their different content can give a specific flavor to the taste when tasting bread. The optimum temperature for fermentation of the starter culture is 28 ± 2 ° C. At 30 ° C and above, heteroenzymatic bacteria produce more lactic acid, and at temperatures below 25 ° C, more acetic acid.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

But why my little animal has lost its smell, I do not know. Someone can be seen in her did not survive my manipulations.

Maybe my starter has lost its aroma from whipping too much with a fork

And who whips the leaven with a fork? Oh no no no! Add water to the sourdough, beat actively with a fork, add flour and mix with a fork. We just interfere, we don't whisk anyone.
I have an acquaintance, so she mixed it with a mixer. The leaven became "heavy" and did not rise well. I didn't ask about the smell.

This is from there - 🔗

The fermentation and baking steps are fundamental, but not the only ones, in the formation of individual taste and aroma. For example, by changing the mixing mode, we can make the taste more or less pronounced. During the kneading of the dough under the influence of oxygen in the air, flavoring substances are oxidized, as a result of which the taste and aroma of bread becomes less pronounced.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Probably, it is still not worth actively interfering with the leaven. But I have a suggestion about the flour. I bought flour from our local manufacturer, first grade 1, then for pancakes, pancakes, rolls I bought the highest grade. The same flour began to be used for feeding sourdough.
Yesterday I decided to feed instead of the highest grade - and a miracle, it behaves much better, it rises well. But there is no scent yet. So the premium flour was most likely artificially bleached. Today I kneaded rye flour. Maybe it will have a reanimation effect in terms of aroma.

Long rummaged on the Internet about the composition of bread leavens. If generalized - lactic acid gives a creamy taste, acetic - is a flavor enhancer and gives its sourness. The longer the sourdough costs without feeding, the more acetic acid, which also sterilizes, and if there is a lot of it, good animals die. A balance is needed between lactic and acetic acid.

Very interesting article 🔗, though a lot of technical terminology and numbers.

There are hopes, we will work.

Thanks to Viki for their help and kind attitude. Now I use a French woman, but the rye semi-finished product is in the refrigerator, and also distributed in huge quantities to all my relatives and friends

I continue the report
She divided her leaven again in two. One is on the balcony at 10-15 degrees. Another in the room. The one in the room does not smell. Balcony with fruity aroma knocks down. And the flour was still to blame. For a baguette, I kneaded it on the highest grade, again my starter was sad, and on the first one I felt very satisfied. For bread, I mix them: balcony and room. It’s somehow scary to send it to the link forever.

I apologize, just now I saw that ROMA has a section about acidity https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=160041.0

[Raisins]

I put the sourdough for the first time, the first day, but I want to ask how much sourdough will need to be put in the bread dough, for example, according to the recipe Raisins? and if leaven remains, then what to do next.I bake every day, it turns out that then I need to put 3 basins of sourdough, once we feed for 3 days? Something I do not understand at all ...: cray: I do not understand something at all

[Raisins]

I put the sourdough for the first time, the first day, but I want to ask how much sourdough will need to be put in the bread dough, for example, according to the recipe Raisins? and if leaven remains, then what to do next. I bake every day, it turns out that then I need to put 3 basins of sourdough, once we feed for 3 days? Something I do not understand at all ...: cray: I do not understand something at all

in this topic, on page 3, it very clarifies the essence of the matter (how to behave with the READY leaven) 40 and 45 answers.
!!!!!! And you do not have the leaven yet, but only the process is in full swing !!!!

And about the amount of leaven. I personally do everything according to the recipe. It is written 100 gr - I take 100 gr.

Girls, I'm starting today This is my very first sourdough, I'm very worried and worried Wish me luck

InnaT. , the questions are not stupid - it was such a thing quite recently!

See how I'm doing. I have 150g in my fridge. sourdough. I take it out, take 100g. (I throw away the rest), add 100g. I mix warm water, 100g. rye (or other flour), cover with a towel and leave for 3-4 hours (it's hot in my kitchen). I draw on the bank at risk. Should increase at least 2 times.

When the leaven came up, I take 250g from it. and I bake this bread, for example:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=103534.0

The remaining 50g. I mix with 50g. warm water and 50g. rye flour. I cover with a towel, leave for an hour - 1.5. As the bubbles appeared, I close the lid with holes and into the refrigerator.

When to bake bread next time. I take it out of the refrigerator and repeat the whole cycle

Mistletoe, I feel like a perfect teapot, so sorry for asking. Your message (above) seemed to me the most understandable. But still there is a question. I can't even imagine how I will have time to do everything in time, because I work from 9 to 18, and I am absent from home from 7 in the morning to 8 in the evening (traffic jams, so that they are) So, when the leaven is completely ready, and I hope so and what will be done with her further? I bake bread every 2 - 3 days. Accordingly, if I keep the starter culture in the refrigerator, then on the day I bake it, it is clear what to do (thank you), but on the other 2 days should I feed it (is it still in the refrigerator?) And if so, how? Do I need to keep warm before feeding? If so, how much? How much later, before refrigeration? I feel that I will stop sleeping altogether, but I still really want to
Forgive me, uneducated ...

I completely forgot HAPPY OUR BABSKY EVERYONE !!!!

[Viki]

Girls, something I am completely confused

Please help me figure it out. So I do it for three days, everything is as it should be. Suppose that on the third day the leaven became the same as in the photo at Viki... What to do next with it? Feed according to the same scheme (that is, I take 110 g of leaven + 110 water + 110 flour) a couple more times, and only then bake? How do you know how many times to feed before it is completely ready for baking?

Suppose you have achieved "the same" consistency.
Here again the questions:
1.for baking bread (for example, this https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=11837.0 I take 30 grams of sourdough, and where else? Feeding again? If so, in what proportions?
2. If the leaven is already what you need, and, for example, there is no time to bake and bread of the day is planned that way after 2, then what should I do with the leaven? So feed every 8 hours for 100 grams?
3. From 9 pages I read, I found out that at a certain stage (what?), You can leave 50 grams of sourdough and not feed at all?

Viki here he writes

When it begins to ferment actively, try not to let it grow more than its volume, it is hot now and it quickly accumulates acid. But when the bread will already be raised, even if it will at least threefold, at least fourfold, but while it has doubled the leaven, it's time to feed.
The amount of starter culture can already be reduced, but the proportion must be observed. You can feed 20g of sourdough + 20g of water + 20g of flour, you can feed 50 or 100 each - this is as convenient for you. More details: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=33627.0

How to understand "while it is leaven", and then it will be what?

Please forgive me for the stupid questions ... Well, I really want to learn

[Kara]

Kara, here I am already confused .... let me first and by notes:
How to know that it is ready - fed on the third day and measured the temperature around the leaven. Then we look - if the temperature is below 30 * C - you can safely leave it for 12 hours. If it is higher, then you need to look after it carefully, it should double. Earlier than 6 hours - this is unlikely. Doubled - we feed. Has not doubled - in 12 hours we still feed.
I still advise you to observe the proportions for each part of the leaven the same amount of flour and the same amount of water for the first two to three days. She is gaining strength so quickly and then it will be possible to feed one spoonful of both 100 and 200 grams. flour - water. Therefore, you can safely take 20 grams of starter culture and feed 20 grams each. do not bake water and flour yet.
Now "How to understand" while it is leaven, "and then it will be what?" - here it was meant that while it is a sourdough (in its pure form), then I doubled it up, immediately feed it, not allowing it to rise anymore. And then, when we knead it into bread dough, she can raise it three or four times.
"Leave 50 grams of sourdough and do not feed at all" - please specify ... you cannot not feed. It will accumulate acids and this ... that ... feed and feed ... and there is no end-edge ...

Thank you very much for your reply

Today my tamagocchi, 12 hours after the morning feeding, looked exactly like your third picture (the one with the ready-made sourdough), but in 12 hours it only rose by 20%. Pretty and smells delicious (pah-pah)

I continue the experiment

... but only rose 20% in 12 hours. Pretty and smells delicious (pah-pah)

Yeah, and the smell of milk? The diagnosis seems clear: an imbalance in bacteria. And MK is more than yeast.
The treatment is simple: when they interfered with a fork, they removed the leaven from the fork with a finger in a bowl, once again with another finger. This is provided that your hands have not just been washed with soap. Those wild yeast that sit on our skin is just a top dressing for our leavens.
There is an option to reduce the number of bacteria in the MC, but somehow I like to increase the yeast.

Wow. And I, on the contrary, almost in a surgical gown approach her. I don't even climb into the dishes with the same tools twice.And the glass with which I pour water and the flour sieve I first pour boiling water over

And the glass with which I pour water, and the flour sieve, I pour boiling water over

poor leaven - you really put her on a diet!

Tell me the basics of baking sourdough bread (liquid) in the oven

[tvfg]

Tell me the basics of baking sourdough bread (liquid) in the oven

tvfg, in this thread, on the first page after the actual technology of making sourdough, there are a lot of recipes for different delicious bread

All in sight
Three hours as I put the starter culture in the temperature of 35 bastards
Of course, I understand that very little time has passed yet, but I'm already worried ..
The sourdough dried out on top, although it was covered with a lid with a small hole .. And of course, I did not see any fermentation processes

PS I can make the temperature around the leaven and 40 degrees. She lives in the oven with such a temperature

40 degrees is the limit for sourdough.

40 degrees is the limit for sourdough.

mine lived at 35 degrees .. but still bent

Gerda1-you still have a new one

already growing
I do not know how it will be there further, but I had to turn on the oven at 45 degrees. I put the thermometer in the oven so it shows something much less than the stove promises
Now at 45 * there is only 30 on the stove inside

Apparently that's why my leaven was bent yesterday. She was just cold

[Gerda1]

already growing
I do not know how it will be there further, but I had to turn on the oven as much as 45 degrees. I put the thermometer in the oven so it shows something much less than the stove promises
Now at 45 * there is only 30 on the stove inside

Apparently that's why my leaven was bent yesterday. She was just cold

Gerda1,
The first page says
"Liquid sourdough according to Kaiser's recipe is started in warm water (40C) and fermented at high T (about 30C).
Can Viki will tell in more detail. I think 35 is a bit too much. According to the guests of the Soviet bakery, the starter cultures are fermented at 30 degrees And in other topics I met a temperature of 30 degrees, as the most favorable for dough fermentation and a good ratio of lactic acid bacteria and yeast. And if you have 18 degrees in the room, you can simply put it closer to the battery.
About the crust - there is such a suspicion that you are taking a large vessel to "withdraw" the leaven. I had a bowl, which I covered with a plate. In a small volume, the crust did not work

Viki,

Yeah, and the smell of milk? The diagnosis seems clear: an imbalance in bacteria. And MK is more than yeast.
The treatment is simple: when they interfered with a fork, they removed the leaven from the fork with a finger in a bowl, once again with another finger. This is provided that your hands have not just been washed with soap. Those wild yeast that sit on our skin is just a top dressing for our leavens.
There is an option to reduce the number of bacteria in the MC, but somehow I like to increase the yeast.

Now about Mine - above is the story about odorless leaven. I think it contains more yeast than lactic acid bacteria. When she’s standing at my place for a long time, or when she’s exiled on the balcony, it smells amazing. And when it grows at room temperature, it smells pleasantly of dough, but there is no stupefying smell (I got used to it from a semi-finished rye product, which I should). When I feed with rye flour, the smell is also distinct.

Viki! Thank you for playing around with us so much and patiently explaining to each new member of the starter culture the rules for handling the starter culture.