French modern sourdough (liquid)

Elena, please tell me, how many degrees do you have in your refrigerator and how often are you going to bake sourdough bread?
When the starter culture is grown, a symbiosis of wild yeast bacteria and MC bacteria is formed in it, which serve as food for the yeast, but when there are many of them, they begin to suppress the yeast bacteria. I understand that there were a lot of them. In the cold, both those and others fall asleep, and not all MC bacteria wake up, some of them die. Here is some yeast expanse after the refrigerator. And there is food and no one interferes. - Well ... this is my vision of what is happening ...

I bake about 4 loaves a week, so maybe it would be more correct to take a little bit of the sourdough and feed it several times? and in the refrigerator I put the highest temperature, which says 9 degrees C
and another question - put the rye sourdough on a French spoon, but it is already very thick, maybe you need more water?

Of course, it would be better to keep her without a refrigerator and accumulate, but try not to infringe on her interests, namely: if you took 20 g of sourdough, gave her 20 g of water and 20 g of flour, then for the second feeding give her 60 g of water and 60 g of flour, then she will be healthy, beautiful and will thank you with good bread. More is possible, less is not!
When you overfeed on rye, it is always kneaded thickly, and as it ripens, it becomes thinner. Add some water, so it will push it out and there will be water on top, and sourdough below, and there is nothing to breathe under water ... have pity on her.

is the second feeding obligatory? for example, last night I took out the leaven from the refrigerator, did not feed it, but only warmed it up, in 4 hours it became directly plump with very elastic threads inside, then I took 10g of it and fed it with 50g of flour and 50g of water, left it until morning and removed it in the morning in the cold, (in my opinion, it is fully restored)
and on the remainder, without top dressing, I put cheese bread with garlic at night in the KhP, and there is no sourdough in the recipe, and I added and counted flour and liquid, and reduced a little yeast, the bread turned out to be high and even, very good.
So, is it necessary to feed the leaven a second time?
and in order to add to the bread, do you need to activate it or, like me, you can only warm it up (after all, it works or is it yeast)
Or am I doing everything right in your opinion?

yes, I forgot, but the rye sourdough did not go with me, and remained lying like a pebble, not like a bubble, even a little thinner, threw it out in the morning, I will probably try another

... do I need to feed the sourdough a second time?
... or am I doing everything right in your opinion?

The sourdough should be fed a second time before baking, and sometimes the third time when it is in the refrigerator for 5-7 days. And when you have baked goods not every day, so every other day, you can look at its condition.
They fed her and put her in the refrigerator, she continues to work there, only more slowly, so your "fighting" friend is ready for the next baking! In the sense - she is ready for battle without any additional feeding.
And try rye on a different flour.

But if I have it in the refrigerator for a maximum of 1.5 days, still feed it before baking?

... do you still need to feed before baking?

You write: "in 4 hours she became straight fluffy with very elastic threads inside" - so she is ready for baking. You don't have to feed.
Actually there is a "French method" of storing the leaven. This is when the temperature in the refrigerator is about 10 - 12 * C and it is fed 1: 1: 1, then it is allowed to start fermentation at room temperature for either 1 hour or 3 hours and put in the cold.The one that stood for 3 hours is ready for baking without additional dressings in 24 hours, the one that is only an hour - 72 hours.

[Viki]

You write: "in 4 hours she became straight fluffy with very elastic threads inside" - so she is ready for baking. You don't have to feed.
Actually there is a "French method" of storing the leaven. This is when the temperature in the refrigerator is about 10 - 12 * C and it is fed 1: 1: 1, then it is allowed to start fermentation at room temperature for either 1 hour or 3 hours and put in the cold. The one that stood for 3 hours is ready for baking without additional dressings in 24 hours, the one that is only an hour - 72 hours.

Viki
It's great that I read this particular post of yours Thank you!
But this summer I kept my sourdough thanks to the refrigerator. She makes me happy more and more.
Thank you very much for the science!

[lana7386]

lana7386,! I read about this method from Lyudmila and decided to try it. And in the fridge +3. Because of this "Frenchwoman" and the French storage method, I bought a Chinese refrigerator. 12 liters.
Leaving for work for a day, I fed her in advance and walked for 3 hours in the kitchen, then in the refrigerator. I came home from work, took it out while in the shower, while weighed the rest of the ingredients, so she was already warmed up and you can knead. It was very convenient!

[Viki]

It was very convenient!

Viki
I found a southern refrigerator in the door + 12-13 * C, I am making a "thermos" around a jar of sourdough from a soft 2-layer napkin of paper and linen napkins in several layers. My dear is standing, only slightly lowering the level, but alive and active
Sometimes 48 hours, and sometimes 72 hours. But I feed her: the remains on the walls + 100 + 100, as it rose 2-3 times, I put the bread. Works! A couple of times over the summer I poured a pinch of salt ... for prophylaxis I use different flour: V / s and the first one from different manufacturers, but of high quality, the one that suits me.
This is how they survived our heat, although now the kitchen is + 28 * С.
Viki , Do you have any comments or suggestions for my actions? I would be grateful
Feeding 1: 1: 1 took note! Thank you!

[Viki]

Viki , Do you have any comments or suggestions for my actions?

There are no comments on action.
But there is a desire to see you on our forum more often and ... wouldn't it be time for us to get a couple of your favorite recipes? Here is some information for thought (or better for action)

There are no comments on action.
But there is a desire to see you on our forum more often and ... wouldn't it be time for us to get a couple of your favorite recipes? Here is some information for thought (or better for action)

🔗

I am reading. I read, but all the same questions. I’m just growing the leaven for now, but I’ll say right away that it didn’t go to any with premium flour, but I didn’t throw it away, left just a little and fed it with 2 varieties, and it went! There are few bubbles, but the increase is 2-3 times.

Questions:
1) Initially, this sourdough is made with the help of rye, and then it is fed only with wheat, right? That is, we are kind of overfeeding on completely wheat, or what? Rye is needed only as a starter, and then it will not remain in the lineup at all?
2) Store ideally at 12 degrees, not lower or higher? Is that also true for the eternal leaven?
3) Has risen, at the peak we take it for bread, remove the rest? Or first feed, and then remove, and if you feed, you have to wait until it rises and then remove? Something I got confused. With rye, everything is simple for me: I took it out, warmed it, fed it up, got up, took it for bread, left it on the bottom / walls and left it in the refrigerator until next time.

[stasija]

stasija, with rye you are doing just fine!
I'll try to answer, if I may:
1. We need rye flour at the very beginning so that fermentation begins, and then we feed wheat flour, because we grow wheat sourdough.
2. You can store it at room temperature or below, but not less than 10 *. The higher the temperature, the more often we feed. Lower - less often, because fermentation is slower. You can store 10 - 20 grams in the refrigerator and restore each time, but it takes two days, there is simply no point for wheat sourdough (my opinion, since I did not like to restore it longer than my yeast dough matures).
3.Has risen, at the peak we take away for bread, we feed the rest and let it wander on, otherwise it will peroxide. The whole difficulty of the wheat leaven is that it should lift the bread, but at the same time not give sourness.
If it becomes sour, take a little of it, add a lot of water and flour and let it rise. For example: 20g sourdough + 100g water + 100g flour.
If you have forgotten something, ask, as they say, "what I can".

Thank you very much for all the answers point by point! In general, I like this site so much precisely because of the moderators: responsiveness, politeness, ability to support, tolerance ...

But there are questions again.
1) If you store, say, on the balcony for now (well, we now have about 12 degrees there and will be), then I feed her before sending her there, that is, took her for bread, fed her and immediately to the balcony? Or is it necessary to wait again until it rises, and then the current to the balcony?
2) If not for bread, but for a while, then maybe a minimum of flour will go to her. Well, let's say, roughly speaking, I have 1 spoonful of sourdough left in the jar, I give it 2 tablespoons of flour and water as much as needed and cold. It's all right? And then why should she have a lot, then in vain, not for bread ...
3) And then I take it out from the cold, throw it out and feed it, right?
4) How much leaven can a non-fed culture at 12 degrees. to stand?
Sorry if the questions are repeated somewhere, but I want to clarify. Thanks again!

[stasija]

stasija,, something tells me that between your balcony and Svetlana's "southern" refrigerator - lana7386, there is practically no difference.
Just above, she described how she keeps her leaven and very successfully. And perhaps you will like the very method that is called French more (I really liked it and I also liked the grape method tormented kept). We discussed it on the previous page.
I also don't use a lot of flour for feeding "empty". No, I'm not sorry for the flour, but part of the leaven, which must then be thrown away.
But how much an unfed one can stand at 12 * C is a difficult question and
depends on many factors: in what proportion was fed - if 100 g of "feed" was given for 10 g of sourdough, then at one time, if 200 g - then longer. Only you will be able to determine this by your leaven. Let's try. Good luck to you!

Please tell me who knows! I grew the sourdough according to Misha's scheme with LJ, all the stages went very well, even at those stages when Misha's sourdough increased a little, mine grew much more, after all the procedures I transferred it to storage mode yesterday, that is, fed it in proportions of 5g sourdough + 50g of water + 50g of flour, more than 12 hours have passed, it just began to rise. What did I do wrong? what should I do next? I'm afraid not to over-acid. TELL ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!

... I put her into storage mode yesterday, that is, I fed her in the proportions of 5 g of sourdough + 50 g of water + 50 g of flour, more than 12 hours have passed, she just began to rise. What did I do wrong? what should I do next?

You did everything right, it's just that she is still young and not strong, 5g is not enough for her yet. Try the following feedings, if you plan to feed 50 g of water and flour each, take not 5 g of sourdough, but 25 or 20. It will be easier for her, but you will need to feed more often. But this is only the first time. Good luck to you!

Viki, Thank you very much for the tip, otherwise I kept walking around my sourdough and didn't know what to do with it! the fact that it is not scary to feed more often, the main thing is that she quickly matured and could quickly bake rye bread on it, otherwise the homemade bread had already been overeating, and they began to quietly buy Ukrainian in the store, and shame mother

For almost a week now I have been rejuvenating my leaven (25g of leaven, 50g of flour, 50g of water) but it still does not want to grow. for 12 hours ate spruce doubles in volume. What should I do with her?

for 12 hours ate spruce doubles in volume. What should I do with her?

There are not enough yeast bacteria she has caught. Help her. It helps to touch it, remove it with your finger from the stick or fork, which you interfere with, so that bacteria from the skin of your hands get into the leaven.
It could be easier - a whisper of bran or rye flour ...

Dear forum users!

I have such a problem - I made a sourdough according to the recipe on the first page with the only mistake: instead of taking 110 grams of sourdough at each stage and "working" with it, I removed 110 grams from the jar and fed the rest of the sourdough. Here I am so stupid) As a result, my output is approx. 560 grams of starter culture and the last time I fed 340 grams of starter culture 110 grams of flour and water. The sourdough looks like the pictures, bubbles, smells normal. The question is - should I throw this substance out to me or is there a chance to revive it with the right feeding? Or maybe take a chance and make bread on it?

The question is - should I throw this substance out to me or is there a chance to revive it with the right feeding? Or maybe take a chance and make bread on it?

Do not throw it away under any circumstances !!!
You will bake bread on it without any risk. And after feeding one part of the starter culture, one part of water and flour, in 2 - 3 times you will get the product that was supposed earlier.
If everything that did not work out the way it was supposed to be thrown away, many discoveries would not have been made!

Explain to the stupid how much you need to take sourdoughs for making bread in the Moulinex bread maker, all or half.
And another question if you put the sourdough to ripen in a yogurt maker, it will be very hot there.

if you put the starter culture to ripen in a yogurt maker, it will be very hot there.

I raised my first Frenchwoman in a yogurt maker with an open lid, that is, I didn’t close the lid of the yogurt maker, and I put paper napkins on the bottom, or rather, I had two-layer paper towels and I folded two or three of them (I don’t remember exactly) four times.
I would be glad if this method is useful to you.

how much sourdough should be taken to make bread in the Mulinex bread maker

The fact is that we have a lot of recipes and each has its own quantity. Try a few recipes from the forum and hopefully you will find yours. Or maybe not one.

But we also began to grow. Already fed twice. Increases by three. Y-yes ... I can't wait to bake bread on it.
Viki, such a question - here I will feed her the third time, will she (pah-pah-pah) grow up and can it be used on the same day? It's just that I've already read the whole forum about leavens, so they say that the three-day one is still young, not strong .... In general, what to do next with it? Continue to feed or ...? Here

[Vafelka]

Vafelka .. to continue feeding - it goes without saying. But I am always unbearable and I already bake for three days, but I add a little yeast in order to "spur" the leaven. Half a teaspoon literally.

[Vafelka]

Vafelka .. to continue feeding - it goes without saying. But I am always unbearable and I already bake for three days, but I add a little yeast in order to "spur" the leaven. Half a teaspoon literally.

Oh, Viki, thank you very much for responding. I fed it for the third time and after 3 hours it has already increased by two and a half, three times. Probably ready already?

[Vafelka]

Probably ready already?

Hurrah! Vafelka, with a newborn starter!

Thank you! Finally, we were born Vika, thank you very much for how you described the whole process in detail step by step. I put my own, or rather our first bread. I go in circles and hope and dream

She put her own, or rather our first bread. I go in circles and hope and dream

So I'm worried too, by the way, no less than you.
Keep in touch, please.

: yahoo: It worked !!!!!! This is not bread, but a fairy tale with musical accompaniment A zaaapah Now I felt the difference in smell and taste and, by the way, and to the touch - it is really slightly rubbery and, wet and shiny in the cut. Oh, boring !!!!
Vika, thank you very much for the starter culture And of course thanks to Iziumka for her bread I ran to her to say thank you too Yes, I'll post a photo of the bread a little later

hello girls. I got infected with this sourdough, we love pizza very much, but we don't have malt in our city (there was such flour), but what to replace? can I use honey?

... we don't have malt in our city, what can we replace? can I use honey?

You can replace it with honey, or with sugar. But I personally prefer honey.
Which city still has no malt? Ugliness!

You can replace it with honey, or with sugar. But I personally prefer honey.
Which city still has no malt? Ugliness!

Lviv region only recently rye flour appeared in the store and the sowings are different, but so it was necessary to go to big cities or buy at some factory ...

[Vikus]

Well, the fact that the patient is rather dead than alive is understandable. The question is to bury or reanimate ??? After the second feeding, I apparently missed the moment (it is very hot in the kitchen) and the sourdough after rising went down and became very liquid. But I still fed her 2 times after 12 hours. Now from above it looks like this:



The photo is terrible, but you can see that there are bubbles on top, but she herself stands still, does not bubble inside and does not rise. Smells good - apple. Vikus, what do you mean ???

shl. I have already written, I went and examined the patient again .. bubbles on one side went from the bottom .. but very small ... in the photo this place on the left is bubbling ..

[Vikus]

Vikus, what do you mean ???

Excellent sourdough! Alive! Only thin, that's standing still. Make it thicker and it will show itself. She would have more flour in her feeding than water by 10, and better by 20%. This is provided that there is an equal amount of starter culture and water in the feed. For example: 100 g of sourdough + 100 g of water + 120 g of flour.

Make it thicker and it will show itself. She would have more flour in her feeding than water by 10, and better by 20%.

Thank you! So I did the right thing .. I poured 2 tbsp into it last night. l. flour additionally .. but apparently not enough .. NAV still fed. I will wait...

And can you overfeed the French sourdough for whole grain rye or peeled flour? And then my "eternal" bent. Thinking about re-growing or experimenting with a French woman?

And can you overfeed the French sourdough for whole grain rye or peeled flour?

Sure you may! When I kept a Frenchwoman, it was wheat. And before baking, I took a part and fed it with what I needed. The rye breads were excellent.

[Admin]

Girls, I came to share my experience in breeding French sourdough, maybe someone will come in handy. I ran around with her as with a baby, fed her, warmed her, sang songs, told fairy tales ... She, an infection, will rise a little, and EVERYTHING. I have a lot of patience, for 3 months I tried to understand what she needed, so much torment was worn out. Again and again I reread the topic about leaven: questions and answers. By chance a glance caught the message Admin about the water used, they say water with a high magnesium content is not suitable. Well, who knows how much magnesium is in our water? But the fact that I fed her with pure filtered water did the trick. After all, everyone knows that silver is used in the manufacture of filters, which kills all microbes (both unnecessary and necessary).
Eh, I thought, took a chance, and fed this delicate lady with plain tap water. Girls, she so cheered up, came to life, smelled. Now we are friends with her and bake delicious bread.

I put in the leaven, and now I sit and think. I have water from a well. If you collect it for years it costs and does not deteriorate, Yes, plus a filter. So I'm thinking where to get water with microorganisms.
And I also asked the sourdough question the night before yesterday, yesterday it had to be fed. I looked at her, but she remained as a lump. and took on a crust. I didn't pick up the crust a lot, but I forgot to feed (I'm very tired) I fed it this morning. and you can see that the fermentation process is going on. I didn't overexpose her. Can put a new one.

Sure you may! When I kept a Frenchwoman, it was wheat. And before baking, I took a part and fed it with what I needed. The rye breads were excellent.

Thanks for the answer, Viki!
Is it enough to feed rye flour once before using it in the dough?

Is it enough to feed rye flour once before using it in the dough?

And here is the most interesting part. If I want to bake in the morning, I can feed a couple of spoons of sourdough (1 - 2 spoons) for the night with 100 g of water and rye flour or 150 g each. And if in the evening, I like to feed 2-3 times starting in the morning. I take a spoonful of the sourdough and give it 50 g each of water and flour. As it matures - another 100 g. The result this way and that is excellent.

Fed this morning. and it is clear that the fermentation process is underway. I didn't overexpose her.

Let's wait another day and find out. Maybe she just wanted to feed tomorrow and the stars told you the right way.

And if in the evening, then I like to feed 2-3 times, starting in the morning. I take a spoonful of the sourdough and give it 50 g each of water and flour. As it ripens - another 100 g.

That is, 300 g of starter culture obtained in the evening can be used entirely?
And you can take a part and continue as "eternal"? (I don't know why, but I want two leavens, "white" and "black", although there is more fuss).

And you can take a part and continue as "eternal"?

Of course. Everything is correct.
Two leavens - a lot of trouble. Let's see how long you have.

Please tell me if I want to bake rye bread, I will feed the sourdough with rye flour for the last time. Or prepare the sourdough completely, and then feed it with rye.

Two leavens - a lot of trouble. Let's see how long you have.

Enough of course not for long. Just as long as there is an opportunity (time and desire) to keep both. Then I will choose the leaven that will be more convenient for me.