French modern sourdough (liquid)

Now I have fed 50:50:50. So I think, maybe it's better to feed this way? And how many times a day? Two is enough?

[Viki]

Viki, if possible, update the photo on the first page, if possible, then to the traditional leaven.

[Peter Push]

Peter Push, Thank you! I remember and am looking for an opportunity. Hopefully fix it soon.

Viki, thanks for the quick response, I'm looking forward to it. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I'm not a novice starter, I've been baking for six years both in the oven and in hp. Every 5-6 months I bring out a new liquid starter culture, everything was normal, but now three times and everything is in the toilet, liquid: stages 1, 2 are good, at the second stage there was even an escape (but I withstood 12 hours), and at 3 and 4 everything froze, no growth even by mm, no bubbles, like sour cream in consistency. In a thick stage 1, it is normal, at 2 even the growth was almost 2 times, stage 3 - fading, no internal bubbles, plasticine is liquid, at 4 there was such a stickiness that I barely washed my hands. I'm looking for some on rye wallpaper, white malt, 1st grade wheat.

[Peter Push]

Peter Push, try changing the flour. But what if...
I had such that one manufacturer has one batch of flour "excellent", and the next - horror. And the humidity is different in one batch in different retail chains. Some have heated warehouses, while others are damp. Last week we got a peeled rye with bugs. True, they made a refund and said "sorry".

[Vika]

Vika, but is there any hope for beginners to see a photo in this thread or not? Unfortunately, most of the photos are not loaded. What is the reason is not clear. And I really want to see and learn from the local master classes, and not look for them on other sites.

[Viki]

Viki, thanks for the advice and participation, I am already on the verge of a nervous breakdown, while the trial and business, I muddied up again, added honey to the rye grain and 1/4 tsp. salt, changed flour, dishes, liquid bubbles after all the cycles, but does not rise, and after the 8-hour stage, the thick ones turned into sticky-sticky again, I, of course, kneaded - and into the refrigerator, fed liquid - and on the battery, but there is no hope. Maybe I can replace 1 grade with makfa in a white package, mixing 50 grams of whole grain + 150 g of makfa. Here's an opportunity, straight out of the blue. And so I want my beloved, I will not save. Viki, give at least a direction of movement, please, I feel that photos will not save me either.
Yes, here's another question. when growing thick in the second position "110 g of rye sourdough + 200 g of white flour + 60 g of ice water, stir", I get a very cool dough, I mix like dumplings.

[Viki,]

Viki, I reread all your comments on this forum, calmed down and continued to feed. Yes, on the fifth day the liquid rose. I think my watery was, I made it thicker. And the water in the bottle ran out, took it from the tap, however, it was settled. I continue to feed and thick, there is no breakthrough. All the best.

the water in the bottle ran out, took it from the tap, however,

What kind of bottle? If you take soft water or after a filter with softening, then the dough is sticky and floats. I always take water from the tap and let it stand, we have a lot of chlorine in it.

Viki, I'm talking about purchased water, I bought it for growing sourdough, for the needs of the kitchen we carry it from a spring, but I began to feed it from a tap, it became better. Thank you! But I think to start from scratch again.

Oh, I forgot, the thick one also came to life, but the rise only tripled, so I want to start everything from scratch.

Well, if the rise did not please you three times .... and by the end of the week, yes, with regular feeding, it will be four or more .... then you can start from scratch.

[VICKI!]

VICKI! I was not so embarrassed by the "small" threefold rise (I understand - this is good for a young sourdough), like the smell - there was neither mash nor kefir, but there was no unpleasant taste either, and there was also a sour taste with obvious bitterness. I baked bread with half the recipe norm from the first pages of this topic in hp, rose well, fit into the given time (first I kneaded on dumplings, then fermented for 3 hours with a crush in the middle, molding, proofing and baking). During baking, the bread sagged heavily, was very pale and had no aroma. Can there be bitterness in a well-fed and well-suited sourdough or not? Thank you for debriefing

Can there be bitterness in a well-fed and well-suited sourdough or not?

I went and tried my own. She is fresh, that is, very young. I only baked two breads on it, and raised them specifically to make pictures of the process. Already sweetish, smells like fresh homemade yogurt for me and fruit for my daughter. What fruit I did not specify, I have yogurt and that's it ...

[Peter Push]

Good evening everyone, so I'm getting some kind of garbage, I'm trying to grow sourdough again, and nothing, everything is like Peter Push, the first 2 days everything is fine, on day 3 there is no movement, I raised it a couple of times, and put everything in the toilet, here I put it again, I am already feeding it with flour of the 1st and 2nd grade, the 5th day and no increase by 2 or more times no, it's good if it grows by half of its volume, and the main thing grows only on a battery, in an apartment of 25 degrees, today I put bread in 5.5 hours, the truth barely rose in the oven, and after 2 hours at the battery I put it on the balcony there + 15, 4 hours have passed and no changes. I didn’t have time to feed the past leaven, what I’m doing wrong, well, I can’t understand. She took bread out of the oven around the entire perimeter of a lacerated wound

I didn’t have time to feed the past leaven, what I’m doing wrong, well, I can’t understand.

You do everything like this. This leaven is a symbiosis of two colonies of bacteria - lactic acid and yeast. If the balance is disturbed in one direction, then those bacteria of which more begin to inhibit the development of those who are less. In this case, more bacterial MC. And yeast is responsible for the rise.
There is not a very aesthetic way to pick up yeast bacteria in the leaven, considering that they sit on our body. Somewhere at the beginning of the topic, we already went through a similar one. Someone rubbed a fork for stirring the leaven on their hands almost to the elbow. I like to make it thicker and knead it with my hands. As everything is normalized, I return it to a liquid state.

[Viki]

Viki, thank you I will try, today I have already fed myself 2 days after wiping myself with my hands, the leaven smells delicious, but very touchy, and there are very few bubbles, it is clear that there is something, and it is a pity to throw it away and I think I may no longer suffer and put a new one.

I think I can no longer suffer and put a new one.

Most likely it will turn out the same.
Now I have a very young and the same story. I will translate into a thick and knead with my hands. There were a lot of bacterial MCs, but few yeast ones. Small bubbles and not even half rise. I don't want to put it in the cold.

[Viki!]

Viki! Thank you for your help, this time the leavens turned out to be excellent, I bake and I am happy. Again to you with a question, maybe not in the subject, but about baking in the oven. We lost parchment paper "Little things in life" from sale, bought another, the result is deplorable - it stuck tightly to the bread. Please describe how to prepare the fabric for proofing and baking and whether a linen towel or chintz will work.

[Viki!]

Viki! Oh my carelessness! Once again about leavens. First, I replaced the flour, the failure, in my opinion, was hiding in it, I also took the first grade, but from a different manufacturer. In the second step, I added 140 g of ice water to the thick leaven (everything further according to the plan), and made the liquid one a little thicker.

Hello! I am just starting to bake sourdough bread. I put in a French liquid. On the first day everything was fine. And on the second day, after the second feeding, the leaven quickly, in a few hours, rose and settled. But I did not deviate from the recipe and in the evening, as expected, fed the third time.I feed it with premium wheat flour. When 110 g of sourdough was poured, the smell was awful, the whole kitchen stank of sourness. After the third feeding, the leaven did not rise at all. I keep it at a temperature of 30-32 degrees. Today I bought her first grade flour. I'll try, maybe it will go away? Tell me what to do with it next? Is it worth nursing or is it easier to put a new one?

[Marya the Mistress]

Happy New Year to all lovers of baking delicious bread!
Marya the Mistress, maybe it's too late, but I'll tell you from personal experience, if something went wrong at any stage when growing a Frenchwoman, then saving her is a thankless job, it is better to start all over again, saving time, nerves and torment. I did not grow or feed the sourdough from the highest grade, I only bake cakes from it, this is my opinion - start all over again, if the smell is normal (not repulsive), and there is almost no rise and bubbles, do not panic, feed on a schedule 2 times a day and in a warm place, as Vika says, it will not last longer than 5 days - it will start to grow and bubble, and you feed her for another two days in blank and keep it warm, 110 g of sourdough is no longer needed for feeding, 30 g of sourdough is enough + 30g water + 30g flour. In general, this leaven is capricious, if you want excellent bread - please it! After the cold, warm it up, feed it twice in idle, and only then in dough or dough. Good luck to you!

Peter Push, and Happy New Year to you! Thanks for the answer! I won and tamed my Frenchwoman. Once I fed her whole grain flour, she came to life. Now I'm feeding the first grade, the smell has become pleasant. I bake rye bread with it (it turns out awesome) and white. But white comes out with a peculiar taste, not like yeast. Apparently you need to get used to it. The son eats, but the husband does not like white yet. White bread rises very well. Rye rises worse. Tell me, how do you taste white bread with this sourdough?

[Marya the Mistress]

Marya the Mistress, I grow a liquid Frenchwoman according to the scenario from the first post: first c / z rye + white malt, then c / z wheat, then 1 grade, I have a sourdough with large bubbles and smells like a slightly sour compote from fresh berries. I often pamper her with the addition of rye flour or honey. White bread turns out to be amazing, you certainly don't need to get used to it, but it's impossible to get used to it, I have been baking Iziumkin's favorite bread (google it) for 7 years already, or I add sourdough when baking in xn, I reduce the yeast by about a third at the same time to fit in into the program. My family members refuse purchased bread. If I bake rye bread, and this is Darnitsky according to Khlebnikova or Karelian from "bread and bread", then I translate my Frenchwoman into rye for 1 or 2 feeding. I want to recommend Selyansky bread in HP, also Izyumkin. Good luck to you!!!

Girls, show me, the 4th day the leaven and it poured all over, and in volume and in bubbles. In the evening I updated it according to the schedule, so it doubled in 2.5 hours.
As I understand it, she no longer needs a battery. I put it on the windowsill until morning. Question: "Should I feed another 5 days without a load, or is it already possible to put on bread now?"

On the third day I baked bread, like the recipe on the first page. So, I think it's already possible. Does your sourdough smell nice?

[Marya the artisan]

Marya the artisan, on the third day it completely died out, but Irina Khlebnikova says that when switching to wheat flour, this is normal, and I continued to feed on schedule and on a battery with a thermometer. And on the 4th day, she played wildly, right up to the top of a liter can. I think maybe still young, silly. It smells ok.
In short, I fed part 70 + 70 + 70 so that it would ripen for bread and it was 200 grams. The rest is on the loggia at 12 degrees.

What kind of flour do you feed? I only grew so much on whole grain flour. Do you have a French liquid sourdough or according to Khlebnikova's recipe? Write how you will bake the bread, how it will turn out.

[Marya the artisan]

Marya the artisan, I fed her the highest grade, and grew French. I love her, she is universal.
Once upon a time I already baked bread on it, but then there was no time to do it, and it became hot in summer, and there was a lot of waste.
But somewhere in September, a friend gave me some kind of monastery sourdough and told me how to bake on it. The sourdough was very liquid, I would say there is 100 grams of water and somewhere around 60 grams of flour. And the dough on it had to be put in three stages using the building method. I baked bread according to her recipe. It turned out a loaf of 1400 gr ..
But I got used to working with a French woman, where it is clear how much water and flour there is in her, and I began to feed her like a French woman. Yes, and I fed her the first grade. I baked on it, using 1 grade in bread. It baked and everything is not right, then a dull crumb, then the bread does not rise for a long time, then it will turn the roof. Then I decided to feed her with the highest grade and she began to rise faster, and the bread became better. And now I wanted to breed a pure breed and not put it in the refrigerator.
And taking into account the previous experience of feeding, I also breed it in the highest grade.
We have problems with 1st grade flour in our city. Whole grain was previously in ATB, but disappeared somewhere. And I really like sieve Izyuminkin bread!

I baked bread, but only in a bread machine. On 1st grade flour and added a little bit of 2nd grade. I did not add yeast. I checked the leaven on the rise. Climbed to the top of the bucket in two hours in the warmth. I see that the norms will be bread and crunches when crushed.
Oh, I can't insert a photo. Can someone tell me how!

[Scorpio]

Scorpio, what a good starter culture you have! And it always rises longer for me. I bake from premium flour, maybe that's why? And a slightly sour smell is always present. I can't get rid of him.

[Marya the artisan]

Marya the artisan, right now I will brag!

[Marya the artisan]

Marya the artisan, and you do not let the leaven to peroxide, as soon as it rises 2 times, start kneading!
I don't like top grade bread, although it grows better and faster on it! Premium flour for pies, block and dumplings is good, but not bread.

[Scorpio]

Scorpio, Very nice bread !!!! With you the recipe. I also bake in a bread maker. And here I became interested in futukty yeast, there is such a topic here. Have you tried it?

[Marya the artisan]

Marya the artisan, I haven't used fruit yeast yet. There are so many interesting things here, you can't reread! The main thing for me now was to understand the leaven what she wants and what I want from her. So far I have achieved from the bread the desired crumb and taste so much flour and rang. : plach7: it's good that my family was silently tolerating and eating my creations.
And there is no recipe as such, a basic recipe from a bread machine for 600 grams of flour, in which I replaced 100 grams of water and 100 grams of flour with sourdough and then a flight of imagination, mixing different flours and make any additives you want!

Thank you so much for the recipe!
I also raised my beautiful Frenchwoman! Everything worked out the first time, however, not on the third, but on the fourth day. When on the third day I did not see readiness, I was not upset, I just continued to feed after 12 hours, as always. And on the fourth morning my leaven came alive and blossomed. I store it in the fridge on the door in the French way (I have 10-14 degrees there). Apparently, she likes it, because every 3 days I get a new portion of a strong, beautiful sourdough.

And this is my Italian bread (Ann Thibeault) in the oven according to MISHA's recipe:

Oh, what a beauty! All right, stop being afraid, I will grow my leaven. I really want to try sourdough bread. Wish me no fluff ...

[Nasiata]

All right, stop being afraid, I will grow my leaven

Nasiata, only walking will master the road! There is nothing wrong with that, just start and everything will work out! I will briefly outline my experience. Whole grain rye, and ideally - millstone flour, one cannot do without white (unfermented) malt, the first feeding is whole wheat wheat, and ideally - millstone flour, the rest of the feeding is wheat 1 grade. I have a flat heating pad 540x370 mm, a liter jar with sourdough (I close the jar with a plastic lid made with a hole made) I put it on the heating pad, wrap the sides and fasten it with clothespins, two clothespins on the sides, one at the top, the temperature is 35 *, I like it more than on a battery or electric oven with a light on. I wish you success!

you can't do without white (unfermented) malt,

and if, nevertheless, there is no non-fermented malt, but only fermented malt available, then there will be no good sourdough, French sourdough?

First day of starter growth went thanks for the support, Peter Push

[Olekma]

if, nevertheless, there is no non-fermented malt, but only fermented

Olekma , fermented is not that, it only gives a dark color to rye (rye-wheat, wheat-rye) breads, and for the French sourdough you need white, unfermented malt, the sourdough will work without it, but not French.

[Olekma]

Olekma , fermented is not that, it only gives a dark color to rye (rye-wheat, wheat-rye) breads, and for the French sourdough you need white, unfermented malt, the sourdough will work without it, but not French.

yes, I get it, thanks. I am already looking for where to buy this malt. I really wanted to grow this leaven.

[Olekma]

Already looking for where to buy this malt

Olekma, look in online stores, it can also be used to roll flour (10 g per 1 kg). I wish you success!!!

[Viki]

Viki, I put a French and a semi-finished product. Today is the second day. 4 hours ago I did everything according to the instructions. Now it has increased 2.5 times! All right. But I have a question. In your photo it is light, and in mine it is dark, darker than a semi-finished product. Is that how it should be or is it just your photo? Or did something go wrong with me?
Happy New Year!

Added Saturday 31 Dec 2016 10:10 AM

Oh, I didn’t read Temka to the end, but now I looked to see if my message reached, and there, just above it, a message that another malt is needed. I have never heard of such a thing. It turns out that I shouldn't have started all this ...

Added Sunday 01 Jan 2017 07:55

Viki, Happy New Year to you!
Without any hope of getting an answer today, I would still venture to ask!
Today is the third day of my leaven. She fed me at 10 am. It's about 12 noon now. She has already grown almost 3 times. Difficult to use or better to wait, as on the first page is written in time. If you can use it, then you need to take it from the general or take it and feed it, and then into bread? I want French Izyuminkin.



This is how it looks.

I baked some bread! It turned out very beautiful! This has never been done with sourdough!
There is no cut yet.
But ... A piece of crust broke off from the mixer and ... sour!
I baked like this: from the leaven that turned out, I took 50 gr. Added 75 gr. flour and 75 gr. water. After 1.5 hours, it increased 2 times and I put on the bread.
The sourdough itself tastes sour, it smells like dough. Where she stood, during the day about 35 °, at night ~ 25 ° (we have stove heating), maybe this is her high temperature? Now I fed it 50:75:75 and put it on the windowsill. During the day it was 22 °, it will be colder at night.
Help!!! I started this leaven, because we don't like it at all to have sourness, and now ...

[Natasha]

Natasha, I do not let mine rise 3 or 4 times. I have a rule: doubled - feed. Otherwise, it becomes sour. I feed a spoonful of sourdough (20 grams) 100 g of water and 100 g of flour - this is the minimum, and more often more. So that there is enough for bread and the spoon remains to feed. Doubled - in action.
When it is necessary longer, then I take a sourdough of only 5 grams.

[Vika]

Vika, three times it was after the third feeding. Now I don't let her get up like that. I already did another one. But it is also sour. Both the first and the second smell like apples. It doesn’t matter. Fed 1: 1: 1 doubles in 3.5 hours at 27 ° C. At night, she fed 1: 3: 3, so she grew by 50% in more than 12 hours at about 20-25 °. I sprinkled it with my finger and some bran, and she ...
The second bread is not so sour. I took a spoonful of a starter, fed it to make 200 gr. and an hour later put the bread. I got up well, the same French.
And another question. The bread is obtained with a pronounced taste and aroma of dairy products. It's not bad, but should it be? After all, there is nothing dairy in the composition.
Phew! Lots of beeches! But I'm just learning!

Added Sunday 08 Jan 2017 06:29

Can I already feed like that? 20: 100: 100? She, the second, is not yet a week? And the first week. While I'm looking at which one is better.

After all, there is nothing dairy in the composition.

How is it not? Starter culture is a symbiosis of yeast and lactic acid bacteria.
And I start feeding 1: 5 - 1:20 as soon as she is ready. 1: 1: 1 is still growing. Grew up - that's all, the ball is over, work and work.
A French lady can be capricious (as, indeed, all wheat leavens). She can say in a couple of months that she is tired. That's all that does not rise. Only blows bubbles. Then I feed her 2 or 3 times as when growing 1: 1: 1 and keep it warm, that is, just on the table in the kitchen. She quickly recovers and begins to grow.
In general, he lives on the windowsill. Now it is -12 outside the window and I feed 2 times (morning-evening). Usually asks 3 times. Therefore, I do not feed more than 5 grams. I also bake 2 breads a week.
And if I know that I won't bake for a long time, I knead it into a thick lump. I can also add salt. Enough for a day. Sometimes a little more. Then I take a piece of 5 grams, stir it in 100g of water, add 100g of flour and it is again like a brand new liquid sourdough.

[Viki]

Viki, thanks for explaining in such detail! Today I tried it according to my own fantasy recipe. While with yeast - without yeast, I'm afraid that the weak one, while it picks up, will peroxide. But in a couple of days I'll try it purely with sourdough. I bake almost every day

Good evening. I have a question. Can the sourdough acidify, rise poorly on its own, not lift the bread without the help of yeast due to the fact that I have to use antibiotic ointment for years?