Bread crumbles

A week ago, I started experimenting with kefir and mineral water, and as a result I now only bake this bread because it is tasty and does not crumble. I do not know what is the matter, maybe the combination of kefir with mineral water does not give the bread crumbles, and I also add 3 tbsp. tablespoons of olive oil.

Can you have a recipe with kefir and mineral water?

Can I have a recipe with kefir and mineral water?

Pay attention to the date of this post, 2008.
Use the recipe search, or see recipes in the Yeast bread section

Pay attention to the date of this post, 2008.
Use the recipe search, or see recipes in the Yeast bread section

Yes, I know the date is old. I just thought maybe someone knows the recipe. But I'll look. Thank you.

And you can ask me too, although the question is strange. I need bread that will tolerate transportation well - that is, for 2-3 days it did not crumble (if it gets crushed in a backpack sometimes). So that it was slightly rubber or something. what to add more to it?

Peace be with you bakers!

inucya - -I need bread that will tolerate transportation well \ what can I add more to it?

FOOD

So that it was slightly rubber or something. what to add more to it?

The main composition of the bread:
Wheat flour 430 grams
Katyk (curdled milk) 280 ml.
Olive oil 45 ml. or 3 tbsp. l.
Coarse salt 8 grams
Dry active yeast 1 tsp.

Try this one, hope you like it

[Admin]

Admin, thanks a lot, I'll try it today and write you a report.
Shade, I recently made donetsk buns that cost 9 kopecks, yolks and plum butter are also there. so they very much crumble on the second day. or what kind of muffin?

[Admin]

Admin, thanks a lot, I'll try it today and write you a report.
Shade, I recently made donetsk buns that cost 9 kopecks, yolks and plum butter are also there. so they very much crumble on the second day. or what kind of muffin?

Read more on this topic Drying and staling of bread, very informative https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=144383.0

Girls and boys! Tell me! Two days ago I baked "Barvikhinsky" bread according to the recipe from the Multicooker. The composition is almost GOST, i.e. flour, cereals, water, salt, sugar, and 1 egg. Such an appetizing photo, I wanted it so! And it crumbles just ugly. Is he supposed to be, or is there something wrong? We have never sold this in our city, I can not compare.

Please write the recipe itself (and the composition, and how to bake) and how you baked yourself.

I forgot to write that bread is for HP.
Flour / s 230
Krupka psh. 225
water 300
dry dr. 1.5 tsp
salt 1.5 tsp
sugar 1 tbsp
egg 1 pal.
Pour the groats with water 60 degrees for at least 2.5 hours. Then, according to the instructions, add everything else. And "Diet", L - this is for Panasonic.
I, unlike the recipe, poured the grains with cold water overnight and in the refrigerator (so as not to sour). Krupka became soft porridge, but soggy.
In the process of kneading, I added only 1.5 tablespoons of flour, since the bun was smeared on the walls. After that, the bun was formed, but during the proofing, the dough (it was visible) was obtained rather liquid.

It seems to me that it was precisely "so as not to sour" that it worked against the recipe - lactic acid bacteria could not be activated in the soaked cereal. If you pour 60 ° C water over cereals at room temperature, the result is a temperature of about 40 ° C. Lactic acid bacteria are on cereals, and this temperature is just for their development.

This is how the dough "according to GOST" looks like - it really has a different consistency compared to a standard wheat bun.

The dough, when it stopped hanging on the mixer, looked something like this. But I probably screwed up with cold water. I will try again. Painfully beautiful bread, I also want to get a good result.
Thanks a lot for the tip!

Good day to all! I have not changed or added to the dough that just crumbles anyway! The only thing I have never been with a baking powder is to make - and I don't know the recipe for that! Can anyone tell me. I want something like in my childhood and youth (the times of the bad life of the USSR) - something similar to the taste turns out but crumbles and the crust crunches strongly and so ...

acid added? protein increased?
It is not clear from your post what you did. How can I advise you something?

My mother-in-law just praises my bread for the fact that it "looks like that one - from youth." I add acid (or make bread with dough).

And baking powder is nonsense, sorry, fooling around. There is soda, which is contraindicated in yeast dough!

Well - and well - in more detail about the acid ... what kind of acid and how to prepare the dough? Please chew for an inexperienced breadmaker if it doesn't bother you.

I experimented only with the amount of ingredients (more less) - but I don't know anything about acid and dough! But I look forward to advice - I really want something new and better. and do away once and for all with crumbling your bread.

And the recipe of your bread can be in the studio Let's try and figure it out

Recently I have been using this recipe - it is more similar in smell and taste to the one from my youth - but in terms of crumbling it is not!
warm water 1 1.4 cup
salt 1 tsp
sugar 1 s. l
vegetable oil 3 s. l
flour 4 cups
instant yeast 2 tsp
That's basically it .

I reduced sugar from 3 tablespoons to one - and salt from 2 teaspoons to one. Three to four tablespoons more water than the stock. well we like it to taste. I tried to change the yeast - it still crumbles.

[Admin]

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1763.0

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1763.0

Isn't that too much oil? And salt seems to me a little (I have 1.5 tsp of salt for 500 g of flour).

Try for starters in basic wheat simple bread 5-10-20 gram (1-2 tsp) of water replace with apple cider vinegar of natural (!!!) fermentation. Or add ascorbic acid (Admin will advise how much and how).

Control the bun and you will succeed. Adminwill give all the necessary recommendations and send where necessary

From the recipe, crumbling is obvious - little liquid!

For 600 grams of flour (a 250 ml cup contains about 150 grams of wheat flour), you need about 400-430 ml. liquid, the dough should be soft, but not runny.

Recommendations here:
The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1625.0
Gingerbread man made from wheat flour. Master Class https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=49808.0

Wheat flour doesn't particularly like acid, kefir and so on ...
You can not put sugar at all and the bread will turn out good
Salt - we take 2% of the weight of the flour, i.e. 12 grams per 600 grams of flour or 1.5 tsp.
Oil - 2-3 tbsp is enough. l. for 600 grams of flour

Apple cider vinegar a salt spoon say .. hmm .. Interesting! I need to try it today - in general, I will reduce the amount of oil and add a spoonful of vinegar. I will definitely sign off on the result.

Apple cider vinegar a salt spoon say .. hmm .. Interesting! I need to try it today - in general, I will reduce the amount of oil and add a spoonful of vinegar. I will definitely sign off on the result.

That's a lot of vinegar for wheat dough. In the section Ingredients for bread there is a topic about vinegar in the dough - read the recommendations.

I gave all the recommendations above by post

I beg your pardon - a TEA spoon. I have 400g in my measuring glasses. flour for bread

But the balance of flour / liquid must be observed!

And butter for 600 grams of flour, a maximum of 2 tbsp. l. for simple bread dough! And if the flour is 400 grams, then there is too much oil.

About 20 grams - I got excited (out of habit for wheatrye). 1-2 tsp enough ...

I beg your pardon - a TEA spoon. I have 400g in my measuring glasses. flour for bread

But for this, in order to give you more accurate advice - put in your profile the model of your x / stove

And since I promised to unsubscribe after the test with vinegar, it turned out what I wanted! I put butter with one. l. salt 1 tsp vinegar 1 tsp yeast 2h. l. (everything to my standards) - The bread turned out to be amazing vinegar smell and not close - and not (a drop) of crumbs when cutting. Now this is the only way I will be printing. Thanks for the tip - this is how it turns out just a trifle - and how it helped. sorry I didn't take a photo - but take my word for it the bread turned out great.

Urrraaaa! Congratulations on your successful bread!
Yes, it’s always surprising how a teaspoon can change the result.

[sovdepovskaya city roll, so soft, dense and slightly damp.]

I'm tired of the somehow crumbly bread.
I would like to experiment - bake bread that is not crumbly and porous, like ordinary classic bread (310 ml of water, 1.5 tablespoons of vegetable oil; 1.5 teaspoons of salt; 2 tablespoons of sugar; 1.5 teaspoons of dry yeast; 500 grams of flour ), but with taste sovdepovskaya city roll, so soft, dense and slightly damp.Who tried it, share the recipe, pliz.
Found a recipe from Lola for a stagnant Baton:
-1.75 tsp dry yeast
- 500 grams of wheat flour
- 1.5 tbsp. l. Sahara
- 1.2 tsp. salt
- 40 grams of butter
- 260 ml of water
- yolk
- vegetable oil.
But this is not a city bun

What doesn't suit you about Lola's recipe?
An excellent bread recipe, taken from the GOST recipe reference book, if we talk about "Sovdepov's city roll, so soft, dense" and a little damp, you can make it yourself if you add a little more water or not bake it

But this is not a city bun - what do you mean? Make not bread, not a loaf - roll buns or rolls of different configurations ...

The dough is very good for this recipe! Baked from it in the oven and in the x / oven

[Admin-Tanyusha,]

Admin-Tanyusha, sorry for the off-top (well, not at all on the topic) ...
Valeria, there is a completely Soviet GOST recipe, according to which all bakeries worked:

City roll from first grade flour:
The weight of one roll is 200 gr
Recipe for 2 rolls:
Baking wheat flour of the first grade - 136 g * / 164 g **
Pressed bakery yeast - 4 g *
Water 73 g * / 87 g **
Table salt - 4.4 g **
Granulated sugar - 12 g **
Table margarine with a fat content of at least 82% - 7.5 g **
Duration of fermentation:
- dough 210 ... 240 min at + 30C;
- dough 60 ... 90 min at + 30C
Proofing 30 ... 50 min
Duration of baking:
- weighing 100 gr 11 ... 14 min;
- weighing 200 g 19 ... 21 min.
Oven temperature +200 ... 230C.
________________________
* Opara
** Dough

The dough is kneaded for 5 minutes, and the dough for 8 ... 10 minutes. Margarine should be introduced 5 minutes after the start of kneading the dough, and during proofing, avoid the formation of a crust on the surface of the rolls - this is fraught with consequences. Do not grease the bun before putting it in the oven, bake it on the hearth. Before planting in the oven, an incision is made manually along the length of the entire billet, as a result of which a scallop characteristic of a city bun is formed during the baking process; to obtain a thin raised comb during manual cutting, the knife should be held at an angle of 20 ... 25 degrees to the surface of the workpiece. Cool the baked bread on a wire rack.
taken on cooking
🔗

for Panasonic I would advise to knead the dough on the "pizza" for 3.5-4 hours, then knead the dough and bake on the main fast program.

Admin, Rina thanks a lot. I will dare!

Or with the addition of any acid ... Bread made from CP is, by definition, more crumbly than store-bought, but within reasonable limits

Added apple cider vinegar to classic white bread. The bread is unrecognizable - it has become dense, slightly viscous, the hole in the crumb has disappeared, like in a classic brick. WHAT IS NECESSARY. : yahoo: And vuuuuuuuuusny !!!!! It is cut with a special knife without any crumbs at all. Thank you, Summer Resident, for the advice.

My bread does not crumble, the main thing is to take everything according to the recipe, and try to buy all the ingredients in the right store in the store and everything will work out.

Granny presented half a bag of "homemade" wheat flour. She warned, of course, that it wasn’t high quality and was only suitable for bread. It turned out that Bread was not at all suitable, especially on the second day, it crumbles terribly.
The problem is that we don't eat much bread, but the donated flour will still have to be used, no one will be able to "donate" it.
Buying good flour and mixing with granny's is not an option, it will take years.
Can you please tell me what other additives besides gluten and acids can save the day?

Granny presented half a bag of "homemade" wheat flour. She warned, of course, that it wasn’t high quality and was only suitable for bread. It turned out that Bread was not at all suitable, especially on the second day, it crumbles terribly.
The problem is that we don't eat much bread, but the donated flour will still have to be used, no one will be able to "donate" it.
Buying good flour and mixing with granny's is not an option, it will take years.
Can you please tell me what other additives besides gluten and acids can save the day?

The very first rule is to make the dough soft !!!!! When the dough is steep, it does not have enough liquid, after baking the bread quickly loses moisture, it is a perishable product - therefore it crumbles when it dries.

To soften the crumb, you can add honey, sour cream, boiled potatoes, butter, vegetable oil to the dough, bake bread with milk, whey
The crumb also softens molasses, glucose. We read about the effect of various ingredients on the dough in the topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=102465.0

The very first rule is to make the dough soft!

If I mean consistency, then I can adjust the moisture content of the dough with the flour: water ratio.
All those supplements that you write about (except molasses and glucose), I have tried - there is no result. I know for sure that the problem is the low quality of flour.
I continue to experiment, try to add semolina ...

It helped. I add 100 grams of semolina to 500 grams of flour, provided in the recipe.

and that vinegar is not equivalent to any other acid (say, lactic acid)?

I grease the bread while hot with butter \ just a little \ and under a towel and there are no crumbs from the crusts.

My bread is crumbling too ... At first I was upset, and then I thought of collecting the crumbs from the "cutting" board into a cup. When I fry cutlets, I use these crumbs as bread crumbs. I have a mortar, so you can trim it a little with a pestle for uniformity.

[not enough acid]

Most often I bake ordinary white bread (water, premium flour, butter, salt, sugar, SAF-MOMENT yeast). Very tasty, baked perfectly, but not only the crust crumbles, but the crumb itself. It's just awful - the whole kitchen is in crumbs !!! I read all the posts of the topic and came to the conclusion - not enough acid... There was no apple cider vinegar at hand, I replaced it with sour cream. The crumb problem disappeared immediately
Now I always add either 1 tbsp to the dough. l sour cream, or 1 - 2 tablespoons of rye sourdough (but not instead of yeast!).

thanks for the advice, read the topic, understood some mistakes)

Please advise! Maybe someone had such a situation. We bought a bread maker at the end of winter. Until now, bread does not work - it crumbles into large fluffy crumbs. Just falling apart. I tried everything that I read here in the subject. Well, except for the leaven. It turned out to be the flour. More precisely in gluten. I changed the flour. It got better, much better. But still far from ideal. And added gluten. I tried products from different manufacturers and changed the proportions. Nothing helped. But if done with milk - even dry - then the bread comes out perfect. Well, not quite perfect, but after what happened, you can call it perfect. It can be cut into very thin slices, almost like cheese. At what it turns out that even on bad flour. Everything would be fine, only it turns out to be rich. Tastes like a roll. And every time adding milk is somehow not according to the recipe. Others do everything without milk.What else can you do? It's a shame very much.
Stove model Redmond 1910.

[Thorn]

Thorn, but what does this mode look like in your bread maker? And, if possible, provide your recipe.

Isn't there too much yeast there? Have you tried to subtract? More tips - fragile dough products are obtained on a short test. Accordingly, the rubberiness appears on the debt. Experiment in this direction - you may have to reduce the yeast, remove (or greatly reduce) sugar (if any) and change the principle of kneading. That is, first, knead the dough, let it stand, and later turn on the standard program for the final cycle and baking. The experiment will surely end in nothing the first time, but if you wish, you can dig here and observe. For example, bread from everyone's beloved Panasonic also seems to us too rich and crumbly on its four-hour program. But the fast two-hour one is simply impossible. ((But the six-hour French is already noticeably more pleasant.

Until now, bread does not work - it crumbles into large fluffy crumbs.

Give here a photo of bread, including crumb. And the complete bread recipe, what and how much you put in, how and with what you measure the ingredients.
Then it will be possible to give advice

I suspect that the flour-liquid balance is also disturbed.

At the moment I am baking:
- flour 420 gr
- water 260 ml
- salt 1 tsp.
- sugar 1.5-2 tsp.
- rast. oil 2 tbsp. l.
- yeast 1 tsp. (3 gr.).

The water was between 0.58 and 0.67 of the flour. The best ratio is in the range of 0.58-0.63.
The yeast was 0.5, 0.7, and 1.5 teaspoons. I didn't notice any difference.
Sugar was originally 2 tbsp. spoons! In the initial recipe. Through experiments, I reduced it to 1.5 teaspoons instead of 2 tablespoons. Nothing has changed. Here on the forum I read, sugar should be 2% for yeast to work. The rest is for taste.

Classic program:
1) kneading 10 min.
2) a pause of 10 minutes.
3) kneading 15 min.
4) proofing for 1 hour 25 minutes. During the proofing, 2 strokes.
5) baking for 1 hour.

The French bread program is 1 hour longer. It also baked on it. Also no difference. The bread maker has a free program - you yourself set the duration of each stage.

[how much kneading was needed for her at the moment]

The water was between 0.58 and 0.67 of the flour. The best ratio is in the range of 0.58-0.63.

The best water-liquid ratio is when the "flour-liquid" balance is observed, and the flour received just enough liquid, how much kneading was needed for her at the moment And this ratio will constantly change, and will depend on the condition and quality of flour, dry / wet.

You have a liquid shortage according to the recipe. According to the "norm", about 300 ml is optimal for 400 grams of flour. water. And then we look according to the circumstances and correct during the first batch.
Hence the crumb can crumble.

We read here:

The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes
CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" we read very carefully MASTER-CLASSES on KNITTING THE Dough (BOXES)

[pinch]

But if done with milk - even dry - then the bread comes out perfect. Well, not quite perfect, but after what happened, you can call it perfect. It can be cut into very thin slices, almost like cheese. At what it turns out that even on bad flour. Everything would be fine, only it turns out to be rich. Tastes like a roll. And every time adding milk is somehow not according to the recipe. Others do everything without milk. What else can you do? It's a shame very much

Not necessarily milk. You can use whey and it will be more nutritious. Reduce sugar to 1 tsp.
If with water, then it is better to take hard water from the tap, and bottled and filtered water is soft.
You can add to water pinch ascorbic acid.
And yes, olive oil gives elasticity.

According to the baking parameters you described in your HP, it turns out that the program is too hot and too short for good gluten development, so you need to use improvers for the development of gluten. In HP Panasonic, such crumbly bread is obtained using a quick program.

Try to bake bread on the "French" mode in your oven according to my recipe, it turns out exactly elastic bread, not muffin

Daily white bread with live / pressed yeast in a Panasonic SD-2500 bread maker (Waist)