Bread crumbles

Well, since we found it out, I will repeat the question: what am I doing wrong? how to fix the situation with the crust?

it's generally difficult to answer: sometimes my French crumbles a lot - I don't know what it depends on, but when you bake it in the oven, this doesn't happen at all.

I always thought that it depends on flour. One manufacturer does not mean the same quality ..

See the answer in the components and their quantities for the test
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=38942.0

[yana09]

yana09, I also love plastic, slightly rubbery and non-crumbling. Try this:
160 g of water
60 gr sour cream
1.3 tsp salt
1 tbsp. l. Sahara
1 tbsp. l. rast. oils
350 gr. psh. flour
1.5 tsp. dry dr.

Thanks a lot for the recipe. I myself began to intuitively add sour cream to the bread, but here the proportions were selected very well, such a gorgeous bread !!!

Thanks a lot for the recipe. I myself began to intuitively add sour cream to the bread, but here the proportions were selected very well, such a gorgeous bread !!!

Glad you liked it! You can safely replace sour cream with kefir or yogurt - the result will also be excellent.

I will try to summarize the collective experience of members of the forum who gave useful advice on this topic. So, what ingredients need to be increased, decreased, added, removed, so that the bread does not crumble.

Decrease: Increase:
- yeast; - panifarin;
- water; - Apple vinegar;
- kefir. - lemon acid;
- mashed boiled potatoes;
- leaven.

It was also recommended to replace sugar with molasses. The only difference of opinion was about sunflower oil:

PER:

"Reply # 114: 15 August 2009, 19:28:50"
The crumbness of the bread slightly reduces the increase in the amount of vegetable oil in the recipe.

"Reply # 53: 20 February 2009, 14:18:21"
Try adding more oil

"Reply # 30: 07 April 2008, 08:53:44"
... add more vegetable oil. Personally, I add 3 tbsp. spoons and bread practically does not crumble.

"Reply # 34: 22 April 2008, 07:54:28"
I have already noticed the more vegetable oil you put, the less bread crumbles.

VS:

"Reply # 63: March 18, 2009, 17:55:36"
According to my observations, bread crumbles from excess oil in the dough.

"Reply # 51: 06 January 2009, 13:51:49"
And my bread (crumb) crumbles only the one that I bake from whole flour with bran. Probably due to the fact that it is dietary and there is sunflower oil ...

NEUTRAL:

"Reply # 48: 24 December 2008, 15:02:29"
... By the way, oil does not play in this role either ...

For myself, I decided to switch to sourdough and add apple cider vinegar or citric acid.
But I did not understand how this oil affects.

[HERE]

If you decide on a leaven, then you are welcome HERE

I began to add molasses to the bread, the bread crumbled completely.

I began to add molasses to the bread, the bread crumbled completely.

molasses instead of sugar? in the same amount?

molasses instead of sugar? in the same amount?

no, not instead, I slightly reduced sugar, and molasses for 500 g of flour about 1 tbsp. add a spoon

Thanks for the advice. And then I bought molasses, but for which I have already forgotten - I will put it in bread

a few hours after baking and cooling, wheat bread and rye bread also begins to crumble. Who can advise that something is wrong? I have Orion 204

a few hours after baking and cooling, wheat bread and rye bread also begins to crumble. Who can advise that something is wrong? I have Orion 204

How do you cool the bread?

And how much vegetable oil do you add?

I stopped crumbling after I began to cook according to this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=14160.0

of course there is some fuss, but worth it. The bread turns out much better than with all sorts of tricks like vinegar, butter, etc. Although another 1 tbsp helps a lot. a spoonful of gluten is also a great result.

And what are the criteria for the concept of "crumbling" ?? We do not eat a lot of bread, so immediately after the bread has cooled down (after 6 hours) I cut the whole loaf with a slicer, fill it in 1/4 part, wrap it in film and in the freezer, so I rake a little on my palm with backgrounds .. Is it crumbling? Otherwise I'll give advice here

[Aunt Besya]

Aunt Besya - what you have is not "crumble". I got the impression that Panasonic owners do not have this problem in the same way as other HP brands.
I crumbled - this is when you cut off two pieces from a loaf - and full of crumbs

[Aunt Besya]

Aunt Besya - what you have is not "crumble". I got the impression that Panasonic owners do not have this problem in the same way as other HP brands.
I crumbled - this is when you cut off two pieces from a loaf - and full of crumbs

And I am absolutely sure that the brand of the stove has nothing to do with it. It's just a recipe and a knife. I have two ovens and the bread doesn't crumble. By the way, I have also been using molasses for a long time instead of (not together with) sugar, but my bread did not crumble before.

[dopleta]

dopleta - of course, m. the HP brand has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I just look at the photos and compare, for some reason the owners of Panasiks complain less.
How can a knife influence? Can you share your observations?
maybe some acids are present in molasses. Again, in Panas there is a temperature equalization mode - as for me, so close action to the dough. And in the dough, the acidity is higher than in a simple dough piece
This is so - thinking out loud.
probably "the truth is somewhere nearby"

Keep a diary of observations - what foods and how much you put in the dough and what then turns out in the finished bread - very informative and useful !!!!
I know it helps !!!

Bread can crumble, for example - there is little liquid, a lot of fat, sour cream, with oatmeal, corn (flour and flakes), from the choice of butter and much more, you can't remember right away.

Watch!

My personal observations:
bread crumbles less or does not crumble at all
-when adding vegetable oil, not olive
-when replacing sugar with molasses
- with an amount of oil of at least 1.5 tbsp. spoons per 500 gr. flour
If the recipe contains butter, I still add a spoonful of vegetable oil, the product does not stale longer and crumbles less.

And yet, the bread does not crumble if it is not cut ...

Hello everybody!
I bake bread in HP recently. But the main problem is BABIES! They are everywhere!
The first day the bread is good, and on the third day it’s not like spreading butter (there’s no question of that), you just don’t cut it — it’s solid crumbs!
I reread this topic (and a lot of topics from the forum - I've been sitting around for 3 weeks already - I am delving into it) - what could be the problem I understood. And I even tried all the tips to put into practice - I added more rats. butter, added apples. vinegar, made the kolobok a little stronger (less liquid), etc. The result is the same - crumbs - crumbs - crumbs ... I don't know what else to change

I have the same problem!
I've also tried a lot of things and no result! I don't know what else to try!
Help those who got rid of this scourge with advice! You are welcome! I even tried it with sourdough, it still crumbles! Even after 12 hours it is baked.

[Mila007]

Mila007 , crumbles on self-grown sourdough?
I don't even know what to say. I didn’t crumble even through the dough, but even more so with leaven!
Maybe it's the flour?

[Cvetochek-Anna]

Cvetochek-AnnaJudging by your question about denser bread, the problem is that your bread is too airy. Start by replacing the yeast. The problem may be because of them.
The options are:
The most common overdose.
Dry yeast is too active (some very improved one, with a lot of enzymes).
If possible, try alive yeast in an amount of not more than 1.5 g per 100 g of flour.

Let's start with the fact that any bread crumbles, even the store question is that everyone estimates bread crumbling in his own way - a lot / a little.

To appreciate crumbling, you need to know what you are putting in the bread dough.
For example, crumbs can add rice flour, rye flour, oatmeal, and more to the dough.
Little water / liquid - dry, crumbly bread. To do this, you need to know the properties of flour, grains, flakes and try to add additives to them in order to remove excess crumbling.
For example, dry flakes will give crumbling, and the same flakes soaked in water / whey for several hours (overnight) will give a completely different crumb, tender, soft.
For example, adding vegetable oil, butter, potatoes, cottage cheese, whey, bookmark additional flour less, and more wheat flour. etc.

When you bookmark products in the dough, remember and write down what and how much you put, make a selection.

All success

To make the bread non-crumbly, you need to add eggs.

To make the bread non-crumbly, you need to add eggs.

This applies to butter dough. As for ordinary bread, it’s a matter of food and flour / water ratio. In general, bread practically does not crumble on dough or sourdough (neither on the first, nor on the following days)

Much depends on the quality of flour, the more gluten, the less bread crumbles. Cooking dough and sourdough, increases the gluten content in bread. Additives also affect, some increase the persistence of bread, for example molasses instead of sugar, good vegetable oil. And additives of various flours that do not contain gluten, on the contrary, make the bread more crumbly. Considering all this and experimenting, you can achieve good results on any bread ...

[Cvetochek-Anna]

Cvetochek-AnnaJudging by your question about denser bread, the problem is that your bread is too airy. Start by replacing the yeast. The problem might be because of them.
The options are:
The most common overdose.
Dry yeast is too active (some very improved yeast, with a lot of enzymes).
If possible, try alive yeast in an amount of not more than 1.5 g per 100 g of flour.

Mmm ... wouldn't even say it's too airy. At least rye is definitely not very airy - it is dense, but the problem is the same - on the third day it crumbles so that the whole kitchen is in crumbs after dinner
At first I used dry yeast, as advised in the recipe book. Then I switched to live - I did not feel the difference. Everything is fine - the bread - the roll is delicious, but crumbles.
Just the other day I baked a roll with live yeast in a small amount - I put 4 grams on 600 grams of flour, however, I still had 200 grams of sourdough. Again the same thing - tasty, airy, it doesn't crumble on the first day, but the next ...

Let's start with the fact that any bread crumbles, even the store question is that everyone estimates bread crumbling in his own way - a lot / a little.

Yes, of course, but so that TAAAAK crumbles, like mine from HP, I have not yet seen

To appreciate crumbling, you need to know what you are putting in the bread dough.
For example, crumbs can add rice flour, rye flour, oatmeal, and more to the dough.
Little water / liquid - dry, crumbly bread. To do this, you need to know the properties of flour, grains, flakes and try to add additives to them in order to remove excess crumbling.
For example, dry flakes will give crumbling, and the same flakes soaked in water / whey for several hours (overnight) will give a completely different crumb, tender, soft.
For example, adding vegetable oil, butter, potatoes, cottage cheese, whey, bookmark additional flour less, and more wheat flour. etc.

When you bookmark products in the dough, remember and write down what and how much you put, make a selection.

All success

I mostly use simple recipes so far - no special additives.
The only thing is that I add to the bread (we call black bread) a ready-made bread mixture, a mixture of rye flour (rye flour, wheat flour, malt, hops, ..I don't remember something else), malt extract, special. bread additive (syrup, malt extract), bran, caraway seeds, ...

Vegetable oils have already tried everything. I'm laying now 3 tbsp. spoons instead of one. But ... it did not give much result

I will try to add the soaked cereals according to your advice.
True, I would still like a simple bun (the same as I do), but WITHOUT crumbling

To make the bread non-crumbly, you need to add eggs.

And my egg crumbled even more than usual

In general, bread practically does not crumble on dough or sourdough (neither on the first, nor on the following days)

Now I did it only with sourdough. Has risen twice only. But if it does not crumble, then this rise is enough for me

Much depends on the quality of flour, the more gluten, the less bread crumbles. Cooking dough and sourdough, increases the gluten content in bread. Additives also affect, some increase the persistence of bread, for example molasses instead of sugar, good vegetable oil. And additives of various flours that do not contain gluten, on the contrary, make the bread more crumbly. Considering all this and experimenting, you can achieve good results on any bread ...

Torment ... here I sin on it. She's probably sold too cleaned here. Rye bread is not so crumbly. And as soon as you add a little wheat, it starts to crumble
But the problem here is that we sell wheat only this - very, very white - varieties 450 and 550, there are no others.

[Cvetochek-Anna]

Cvetochek-Anna, I can advise you so, replace half of the liquid with whey, add the old dough, leave it from the pies, if not, I do it on purpose and, another couple of grated potatoes, I guarantee, it will not crumble even on the third day

[Cvetochek-Anna]

Cvetochek-Anna, I can advise you so, replace half of the liquid with whey, add the old dough, leave it from the pies, if not, I do it on purpose and, another couple of grated potatoes, I guarantee, it will not crumble even on the third day

Thanks for the advice!
I just did it on serum - it crumbles.
How about potatoes? Raw into the dough?

Yesterday I baked a roll only with sourdough - no yeast! I made a small one for testing - 300-400 grams, a recipe from the forum, but I did not add 9 grams of yeast (intentionally!).
I cannot assess whether it crumbles on the third day, because yesterday almost everything was eaten at once. This morning it doesn't crumble, but ... the taste of sour sourdough is sooo felt - maybe this is normal for bread, but not for a roll. Better crumbling .. In general, my experiments will continue for a long time

By the way, I stewed yesterday's sourdough bun 2 times - the first time 30 minutes, the second - 55 minutes. Maybe that's why the taste is very much felt that there was not enough time for the approach? The roof was slightly torn. And the dough rose only 2 times (with yeast and sourdough, usually 3 times ... maybe 4)

By the way, I stewed yesterday's sourdough bun 2 times - the first time 30 minutes, the second - 55 minutes. Maybe that's why the taste is very much felt that there was not enough time for the approach? The roof was slightly torn. And the dough rose only 2 times (with yeast and sourdough, usually 3 times ... maybe 4)

During proofing, the dough should be increased only 2 times, then it will rise a little when baking.
The dough should not be allowed to stand, it over-acidifies, becomes uncontrollable, cracks, creeps.

Recipes with potatoes can be viewed in the topic Recipes by author by Admin

[Cvetochek-Anna]

Cvetochek-Anna, boiled potatoes, just grate into a batch
she herself suffered from crumbling for a long time, freshly baked - everything is fine, it will lie down - the next day you can't smear it with butter

EVERYBODY WHO CRASHES BREAD! CHECK THE COMPOSITION OF THE MARGARINE, THERE IS NOW OILS AND FATS ARE OCH LOW, MELT it and you will see - only water !!! try butter or vegetable oil instead of margarine. and the required amount of liquid can be taken: milk (good with vegetable oil), you can also kefir and whey, or add sour cream to the water, but do not go beyond the volumes recommended in the recipe. For example, if the recipe requires 280 ml of water, then put a couple of spoons of smerano, and add water to the required (280) volume. bread crumbles due to the quality of flour, and not only, the dough needs fats, no matter what (vegetable or animal (I mean dairy). I generally pour vegetable oil instead of margarine - it turns out a simple bread - AND DO NOT CREEP! I WISH ALL SUCCESS !!!

I also want a "rubber" bread recipe, but I have a little for something else:
bread for fishing ...

The purchased infection is loose, does not hold on to the hook at all, when there is an opportunity to bake a roll especially for fishing (I set a timer and take it straight hot), here the main thing is not to accidentally eat it while sleeping.
But ordinary bread from a bread machine is good only while it is completely fresh. Then he dries up and the story is the same with him (that is, on the second and third day he is not at all the same)

I dug into the recipes and the process. It looks like all my problems are in bad flour. They sell flour of the highest grade, but there is not enough gluten in it ... 20 percent, probably, and flour for bread should contain at least 30%
P.S Now I remember how in restaurants the pizza dough in the air is pulled into a thin pancake, with such a gluten content as in our flour, I think you can't turn the cake like that
Where would I buy this gluten (gluten?), And preferably in a bag of no more than 1-5 kg, otherwise I have no production =)

Actually, I will be very grateful if you can give a recipe for bread made from ordinary ingredients, so that the crumb is as rubbery as possible, does not break / crumble, it is better if it is slightly damp.

[telenkov88]

telenkov88, so you have a direct road to "Peki itself" -
🔗
🔗

Yes, yes, a very useful forum, here it turns out that gluten is in full use in the recipe
And 4 years ago (I bought a bread maker) I was looking for where to buy gluten, I ran into tons of wholesale and decided to score on this matter
I will order panifarin.

Now I think how much to pour. I think if we proceed from the fact that our bread flour is bad (there is little gluten in it, the dough does not last) then pour 20-30% of Panifarin into it.
P.S Once I ordered special fishing bread from Germany, so it is probably also half gluten, well, such rubber, an angler's dream, for him casting 50 meters is not a problem.

It seems to me that maybe I'm wrong, let the girls and boys from the forum correct me, if so. Panifarin is a great flour improver, but not gluten. Gluten is one thing, panifarin is another. I use both, and if you add panifarin to one part of the dough and gluten to the other, the dough and pastries from these two dough samples will be strikingly different. Panifarin adds air to baked goods, and adding gluten to low-gluten flour improves its quality.

It seems to me that maybe I'm wrong, let the girls and boys from the forum correct me, if so. Panifarin is a great flour improver, but not gluten.

Margit, you are not quite right. Panifarin is made on the basis of gluten, only with the addition of enzymes and ascorbic acid.

Margit, you are not quite right. Panifarin is made on the basis of gluten, only with the addition of enzymes and ascorbic acid.

Thank you Olga, so we figured it out. It would be nice to know the composition of panifarin as a percentage, in this case panifarin could be made at home by adding ascorbic acid. I wonder what enzymes are added to panifarin?

I already wrote somewhere that instead of panifarin or gluten, I add 2-3 tablespoons of starch. The bread turns out to be tall and fluffy and does not crumble much

... I wonder what enzymes are added to panifarin?

Margit, amylolytic enzymes. But personally, this does not mean anything to me.
And also, it seems to me that PANIFARIN is the brand name of the product from IREKSA (Croatia). Perhaps other manufacturers somehow call it differently (in the Israeli branch they talk about Shtabilaz)

Hello. Please tell me why the crust of the bread is very crumbling. although otherwise everything is tasty and good. x \ n binaton 2169

Read the tips in this topic, there are many of them

I decided all this about the classic bread from wheat flour in due time by switching to live yeast and adding 1-2 tsp. apple cider vinegar.

Summer resident, you beat me

Rina, I'm running to say a huge thank you for the vinegar advice. Our family is very fond of Darnitsky bread (from fugaski).Thanks to you, your favorite bread has become more tender and does not crumble at all.

Tell me, what if you add starch?
(so that the bread does not crumble, the starch is the paste)

Tell me, what if you add starch?
(so that the bread does not crumble, the starch is the paste)

Starch as a paste, mainly good for lubricating bread products outside, in the form of a paste.
But, sometimes they replace part of the flour in the preparation of flour confectionery

Try it and share your experience with us

I reread the whole topic, but still I can’t delve into my problem ...
And for me it is this: I baked soft oat bread in HP and this particular bread is crumbling. Moreover, the upper part crumbles most of all, making up about one fifth of the entire height. When cut into slices, this part shamelessly falls off from the slice in the form of separate "crumbs".
Recipe: White Bread Flour 300 g
Medium oat flour,
plus a little to sprinkle on top 100 g
Whole or gray bread flour 75 g
Water 200 ml
Salt 1 tsp
Liquid or thick honey 3 tbsp. l.
Butter 25 g
Dry yeast 1 1/4 tsp
Yogurt 150 ml
When baking according to the recipe, I used wheat flour of the 1st grade, oat flour (Garnets) and whole wheat flour. I knead the dough, always adjusting the state of the kolobok, as Admin teaches. This time I did the same.
A few posts above I read that for oatmeal this (that is, crumbling) is typical (post by Admin). What should I do in my case? Maybe start by reducing the amount of oatmeal and whole grain flours? Please advise. I would like to repeat, delicious bread ...

I love any bread that uses tea leaves. Not a tea room, but brewing some of the flour with boiling water or with Tang-Zhong tea leaves. There are enough such recipes on the forum. No crumbs. Is that from a thin crispy crust when slicing. And the crumb there is slightly rubbery.
Out of laziness or for speed, I can cook just by brewing with boiling water directly in a bucket of some flour (rice, rye, wheat, bran, a mixture of cereals ...). It stands until it cools down to a slightly warm state. Then I add the rest of the liquid, flour, salt, sugar, yeast. I turn on the program either 1A (if rye flour) or 2A (if wheat flour).
I can turn off HP 2 hours before the end. I take out the dough, shape it, place it in a mold, distribute, bake in the oven for 10 minutes with steam, then without steam.

With some rice flour.

With seeds (flax and sunflower) and flakes (rye and oat)

Today I did it with bran.
A piece ..
Not indicative at all) a frame from the video)

It is wheat with rice