Bread crumbles

Good day!

My bread also crumbles, I can't say that much ... but still there are crumbs, although we use a special knife. After baking, I began to grease the loaf with vegetable oil and cover with a towel. The crust becomes soft after cooling and the crumbs become much smaller ... although they are still present.

Good afternoon to all members of the forum! Vsh Happy New Year 2009 and Merry Christmas!
And my bread (crumb) crumbles only the one that I bake from whole flour with bran. Probably due to the fact that it is dietary and there is sunflower oil and water instead of milk, it dries quickly enough. But the fact that when you cut a slice, the crumb falls apart - this is a problem ...
And so ordinary bread (only I, a hedonist, bake it with milk instead of water) stays fresh just in an enamel saucepan, covered with a towel for a week or more. I baked it for the New Year - only today the remaining piece has dried up - and then it was left like that, without shelter.

I read the entire thread, but I could not find an answer to the question.
I have crumbling, perhaps even more correctly to say - bread is crumbling.
Maybe this is due to a lack of gluten or malt, I have not been able to find it anywhere yet.

Try adding more oil and skipping milk powder.
At first, my bread also crumbled, now I do not regret butter and there are no problems (only the crust of the rubber of VERY FRESH bread crumbles, on the next day this problem is gone).

And I put a millimeter less yeast (in a measuring spoon) and add a teaspoon of sourdough. Especially in French it helps a lot.
And I sprinkle oatmeal flakes, it also helps.

I read the entire thread, but I could not find an answer to the question.
I have crumbling, perhaps even more correctly to say - bread is crumbling.

Another reason, not mentioned here, is possible - the oven is poorly adjusted and dries out the bread. Try to bake bread of the same recipe and size with a shorter program.

Thank you all very much for your advice, I'll try.
Dear dopleta, this reason may be very important, but, unfortunately, my baking time is not regulated, there is only a basic (3 hours 50 minutes) and a fast mode (1 hour 50 minutes). On the fast setting, bread, except rye, is not successful.

Another reason, not named here, is possible - the oven is poorly adjusted and dries out the bread. Try to bake bread of the same recipe and size on a program of shorter duration.

Apparently this is due to the fact that most users have crumbled bread while the oven is new .. then it goes away.

Thank you all very much for your advice, I'll try.
Dear dopleta, this reason may be very important, but, unfortunately, my baking time is not regulated, there is only a basic (3 hours 50 minutes) and a fast mode (1 hour 50 minutes). On the fast setting, bread, except rye, is not successful.

Then just try to turn off the oven when there are five to ten minutes left until the end of baking. After all, is the time displayed on your display?

Yes, the time is flashing, thanks for the hint

Hello everyone.
Based on my experience and after reading this topic, I will allow myself to conclude - it's definitely not about knives. The main and absolute reason is flour, or rather low gluten. When adding panifarin, the problem disappears. The rest of the reasons are secondary.

My bread was crumbling too. But I once read in a textbook on the technology of confectionery production that acids (ascorbic acid was even mentioned) to improve yeast dough (to speed up production).And I began to add 1-2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar to the wheat bread that I baked in the main program. Result: the crumb has acquired a light "rubberiness", the bread has clearly less crumbling, it can be cut into rather thin slices.

After all, if you think about it, the dough according to the classical technology is kneaded and matured not for a couple of hours (as in bread makers), but much longer, during which time the acidity of the dough increases significantly. And nobody canceled the processes of biochemistry. Probably, acids somehow affect the same wheat proteins.

Rina72, at the expense of acid you are right, yesterday rye bread came up for me in 1.5 hours - usually 5-6, or even all night - and I decided to bake it. So, it turned out to be completely bland, although the recipe is the same.
I will try adding vinegar to wheat bread.

And yet - I share my know-how (maybe someone did this, but I thought of it myself) - I baked bread in water drained from pasta. The result was a pleasant surprise.

According to my observations, bread crumbles from excess oil in the dough, excess water and yeast. For 500 grams of flour, you need to put no more than 1.5 tsp of yeast, no more than 0.5 tablespoons of butter (if you don't put it at all, the bread won't crumble at all), and no more than 270 ml of water. Where they write 300 ml of water or 2 tablespoons of butter, 100% bread will crumble. As for acids, yes, the more acid, the less crumbles. Sourdough bread does not crumble at all. If you add sourdough to yeast bread, it will taste better and crumble less. I already checked, only yeast needs to be reduced, I'm working on it now.

My favorite recipe is 450g flour, 300ml water, 1.5 tsp yeast, 1.5 tsp salt - nothing else. French or basic mode. It crumbles terribly if you do not add panifarin.

Hello everyone.
On the advice of Rina72, I added 1 tbsp of apple cider vinegar to her recipe - and did not recognize the usual bread - it stopped crumbling! Thank you very much.

[Lady]

According to my observations, bread crumbles from excess oil in the dough, excess water and yeast. For 500 grams of flour, you need to put no more than 1.5 tsp of yeast, no more than 0.5 tablespoons of butter (if you don't put it at all, the bread won't crumble at all), and no more than 270 ml of water. Where they write 300 ml of water or 2 tablespoons of butter, 100% bread will crumble.

with the amount of water - very much dependent on flour. For 500 grams of flour, depending on its type, manufacturer, I have from 270 to 340 grams of water. This is despite the fact that I make a rather steep dough ("kolobok" is a little denser than advised). And for a long time I replaced vegetable oil in the dough with butter. I think this also plays a role in crumb density / quality.

Lady, I am very glad that my experience was useful

About acids. If someone does not want to add apple cider vinegar, then you can "play" with ascorbic acid... Still, this is vitamin C (by the way, today I read the composition of the ready-made mixture "Kornex", there is also ascorbic acid there).

Rina72, I mean 500 grams of premium wheat flour. Then there should be no big differences in quantity. Of course, if the bread is made with mixed flour, whole grain, which absorbs more water, then there may be more or less flour. Yes, and a bun is such a thing ... You can focus on it, but it does not serve as a 100% guarantee. And in general, there can be no 100% guarantee in baking. The main thing is your own experience and eyes. But about butter, do you only use butter? And olive, sesame, linseed, nut? These are such healthy and aromatic oils!
Regarding the amount of butter and vegetable oil. I baked stagnant loaves according to the Lola recipe, where for 500 g of wheat flour -40 g of butter and 1.75 g of yeast - so awful! They crumbled so that it was impossible to eat. After all, if you melt 40 g, the oil drain is 2 tbsp! What I was talking about!

Rina72, I mean 500 grams of premium wheat flour. Then there should be no big differences in quantity.

I'm also talking about premium flour without additives. But, after all, high-quality is what the manufacturer claims. And how much this flour complies with GOSTs, it is difficult for us - buyers - to find out.You have to focus only on the appearance of the flour and the quality of the final product.
As for the butter, I tried different versions of the vegetable (it is very interesting to get sunflower from fried seeds in gray bread). Well, I like the creamy one in the wheat bread, although I can't say exactly what it is. By the way, the quality of butter is also very different. I only take one manufacturer. And when this oil disappeared from sale, it was horror for me. Another butter was advised "It should be no worse" (sellers I trust), so it was margarine. Maybe butter, but my feeling is margarine.

Okay, this has already gone off-top. I apologize ...

Today I also baked my first bread. ... it looks cool, but when I started cutting, my knife with serrated knife did not cut off a piece very much, it began to crumble ..... the crust itself, too, and the bread was just baked, so you say that you need it separately buy a knife ??? By the way, everything also depends on the knives, I watched the advertisement on TV, so even our ordinary knives simply bent the chunk to the table so that it was impossible to cut it off ... here I have such a song ... it may very well be from knife .... so which one to take, which company ??? Tell me !!! Pliz

Svetik_
I congratulate you on your first bread. The bread must cool completely, eating the freshest bread is unhealthy. Did you cut the bread while it was still hot?

Thank you very much!!! I cut the bread without being hot, but if I baked it today in the morning, then maybe in 40 minutes, about an hour ... it's just so airy ... and the crust sprinkles when you cut ..... Maybe this is what you need .. just let it stand for a few hours ??? I think that tomorrow will be the same ... What do you think ??? The most important thing is that I did it the first time, thanks to the scales, everything worked out ...

Or maybe it's a knife ??? It's just mine, the type that is for bread, and the purchased one also does not really cut ... ... maybe he is to blame or too quickly I want In general, how much should the bread settle so that it is not harmful to health ???

I think that you are a clever girl, since everything worked out for you, it means that you treated the baking process carefully. 40 minutes for cooling the bread is not enough, it is necessary for the steam to come out from the inside and the bread to cool down. Wait to sin on a knife - let the bread cool, then try to cut it with different knives (the experiment will help you find out if your knives suit you.
Do not forget that your bread will always turn out to be different - it can be crumbly, maybe a little viscous (you will then understand what my words mean). Rye contains more gluten, less wheat. Therefore, at first you do not rush the bread and do not cool it in a draft. Put on the grate and let him, the firstborn, calm down completely to collect his thoughts and prepare for the fact that he will be enjoyed
For the future: let's always cool the bread, it will be just that.
In some breads, the taste appears later, after a few hours. In addition, I repeat: it is harmful to eat very fresh bread, look for this information on the Internet - everything is described there according to the processes: gurgling, running, happiness ... Bread is used for health, and not vice versa.
How to choose a suitable knife (if there are many), remember it. If you are not happy - write to this topic. But, I repeat, bread is different, and the knife is not always to blame.

Oh thank you very much for your support !!! I am very glad that I can easily write and someone will answer me on my topic ... Today I will knead more bread, probably dairy bread, I want to present this miracle to my parents ... let them be comfortable with homemade bread ... I myself have not tried it after a few hours of standing bread, now I'll go and taste it, but mine said that the crust is dry, crumbles, and the taste is cool ... Or maybe my crust is light and therefore soft ??? The knife just presses it to the table and does not cut it, but tears What can you say ??? I will probably do the whole process on a dark crust.
Shurshun tell me, if there was such a situation, it is better to make dairy bread on a dark crust, it will not fry with me ??? and the timer must be set or not, just trust the baking program as in the main Thank you.

I made white bread with a dark crust. Didn't impress me - mentality. Although I 'rgthbvtynfnjh still that ..
sometimes the bread, on the contrary, with a very tough crust - just oak - it will stand to cool, I put it in a bag (I had given up the breadbasket for a long time) and after about four hours it’s lovely itself - a soft crust, as if the bread had changed its mind and sucked up: “Eat me, I changed my mind, not I want to be with an oak crust "
In general, you need to experiment - here the person wrote that he added water from pasta - well done! And I discovered a new taste for myself. Therefore, try, well, even if it doesn't work out, practice is needed in everything.

And mine ask me to do it with a hard crust ... I'll try .... because it hardly cuts, well, it’s a little bit, it would be tighter to make it and I think so everything will be OK .... But how to make it like this? a little denser, add a little more flour and how much ??? Tell me like a pro

Rye contains more gluten, less wheat.

On the contrary. True, if you have not added a few spoons to the rye panifarin (gluten).

I don't add panifarin at all

You are talking about panifirin ... I finally don’t know what it is ... or rather didn’t see it ??? where is it sold? I haven't seen something here

sorry panifarin ...

[Svetik]

You are talking about panifirin ... I finally don't know what it is ... or rather I haven't seen it ??? where is it sold? I haven't seen something here

Svetik, Panifarin is gluten or gluten (high molecular weight protein). Panifarin is added to those breads that are baked from gluten-depleted flour, such as rye. It improves the rise, splendor, and, at times, the taste of the bread. But it's still an artificial additive. Read all the articles for beginner bakers, there Admin explains everything in detail.

Oh yes, I forgot to answer where to buy. If there is no Tri-R branch in Donetsk, then take a look at the topic "joint purchase" ...

I'll try to upload a photo, tell me did it work or not ??? OK.

Svetik
You have baked wonderful bread :) Congratulations! Fine!

oleg9979 thanks ... I'm glad that I already got the second one .... thank God, at least it's not a damn lump (just kidding). I see you have two HP ??? Have you tried rustic bread ?? So I want to try the best one, so that there are no bells and whistles such as ... wort ... I don't know where to get this ... Maybe later I'll ask around somehow ... but for now ... . So

White bread, as well as black rye bread, crumbles much less when baked with potatoes. I add to 400 grams of wheat flour 100-120 grams of mashed boiled potatoes (for white bread) and 60 grams of potatoes for rye. In this case, the taste of neither one nor the other does not deteriorate, and the "rubberiness" increases. Try it, you won't regret it. Best regards, Shurik.

Today I baked Rustic .... delicious, (y) crust, but still my knife does not cut again, but tears bread .... why is that ?? I keep everything, all the proportions, why is this happening ??? Is everyone lucky or just me ?? Maybe it's the knife ?? After all, I also cut ... supposedly with a knife with barbs ... but it doesn't work out very well, when he stands, I can't cut it at all, just tear it ...

maybe not quite in the subject, but tell me who stores the bread in what? My crispy after a night in a special bag (on top of the material, and inside the polyethylene) became wet: -X And ​​where to get paper bags

From my own experience. At first, immediately after baking, the bread was covered with a towel, and the crust was quite soft. Then I gave up this practice, and now I let it cool on the wire rack, without covering it with anything. The crust is crispy. Perhaps this information will help you adjust the crunchiness.

maybe not quite in the subject, but tell me who stores the bread in what? My crispy after a night in a special bag (on top of material, and inside polyethylene) became wet: -X And ​​where to get paper bags

I store it in a birchbark bread box. It is stored perfectly for a couple of days, but it does not stay with us anymore.

but please tell me what a birchbark bread box is, does it have a foreign smell, store it without a bag and where it can be purchased

but please tell me what a birchbark bread bin is, does it have a foreign smell, store it without a package and where it can be purchased

This is a birch bark bread box. Craftsmen make and sell in markets along highways. At least we got ours in this way. There is no smell, we store the bread without a bag, otherwise what's the point in the breadbox, there is no difference where the package lies - in the breadbox or just on the table.

Here is our birch bark bark

I was looking for it for several years - so that it would fit not only in size, but also in design, and in shape, and to my liking.

I, too, have been looking at such a bread box for a long time. It looks very attractive, but it is quite expensive. Therefore, I am very interested in its consumer qualities. After all, it is not recommended to use an ordinary wooden bread bin for more than two years, especially in a humid climate. And yet, Shurshun, please tell me how you wash it and how long the bread does not dry in it.

Many thanks to Brad Peet and Shurshu for the info. Tell me what kind of bread becomes after a night in this miracle and does it smell like birch bark

I, too, have been looking at such a bread box for a long time. It looks very attractive, but it is quite expensive. Therefore, I am very interested in its consumer qualities. After all, it is not recommended to use an ordinary wooden bread bin for more than two years, especially in a humid climate. And yet, Shurshun, please tell me how you wash it and how long the bread does not dry in it.

I have the same shape. Your bread is stored quietly for a couple of days. On the third day it dries up noticeably. Shop - no. It can get moldy on the second day. Actually, for this reason, for about six months, this bread box was lying around idle until we bought a bread maker. However, if you prefer soft bread, then it may not suit you. I see no need to wash such a breadbox. I won't tell you about the service life either, we have it less than a year.

Many thanks to Brad Peet and Shurshu for the info. Tell me what kind of bread becomes after a night in this miracle and does it smell like birch bark

Yes, there is no smell in it. The bread is excellent, I like it. Does not dry out or rot.

Shurshun, please tell me how you wash it and how long the bread does not dry in it.

Recently purchased.
Care should be as follows:
-wipe twice a year with a swab soaked in vegetable oil.
- do not expose to aggressive liquids: acid, alkali, various chemical, liquid compounds.
-do not wash using modern chemicals.

Many thanks to Brad Peet and Shurshu for the info. Tell me what kind of bread becomes after a night in this miracle and does it smell like birch bark

Birch bark smells like birch bark. over the course of some time, the smell of birch bark becomes weaker. Bread pgf [jv birch bark is not impregnated, rather the opposite, which is why very aromatic bread, for example https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=9518.0 I store in a plastic bag. The rest of the bread is without packages. does not grow stale for a long time, does not grow moldy. The term of use of my tuesa is small, but having it I understand that it was not in vain that I was looking for it. I am very pleased with the purchase.

Thanks to all of you for the acid addition advice! I have been baking bread for a year now and it has been crumbling all the time. And I changed the modes, and added all sorts of oils, everything was useless! I added citric acid the last two times! A completely different bread turned out to be both rubbery and moist, and I would even say some kind of soft fluffy !!!!! Moreover, the first time I added crystals, and the second lemon juice. The second option seemed more efficient!

How much acid should you add?