Bread Maker Zojirushi Breadmaker BB-CEC20

[Ilnur]

Ilnurif you have a strong leaven, perhaps.

Or you can set the following program in this bread maker:
Kneading 20 min
Detuning without kneading 5 h
Baking 1 h 10 min
Heating 1 h
?

[Ilnur]

Ilnur,

Yes, you can. In the first post I gave all the cycles of the programmable mode with the parameters of each, you can see. Any of the stages is disabled completely (i.e., you can skip). First proofing up to 24 hours

Then I do not understand this at the moment: in your post, you wrote that you have to pull out the shoulder blade with your hands. And why pull it out if you can cancel the crush in the program?

In Zodzhirushi, I was just embarrassed that the very first rise was 24 hours, and the next ones - only 2. This is not enough for a starter. The question was solved only by removing the shoulder blades. Then the turning on the kneading did not bother the dough (I lubricated the dough mixer pins with vegetable oil before placing the workpiece for proofing, so that when scrolling, they did not pull the dough with them and did not bother him in any way) and then it turned out fine - the total proving time of the leaven before baking was 4 hours. Moreover, the last 2 - with an increased temperature (38 degrees - this is how the program is composed, this parameter cannot be changed). But it’s as if it’s not a complete machine, you have to "pick up" something yourself))).

[Ilnur]

Ilnur,

Because I am using 2 lifts. Well, 2 proofers, as you call it. And if you use 2 lifts with a swing between them, then it must be borne in mind that only the first lifting cycle can be up to 24 hours. The second is only up to 2 hours. This is not enough for leavened bread, especially if the leaven is not very strong. There is also a third lifting cycle for this oven - also up to 2 hours. So I pulled out the shoulder blades so that the dough would not crumple between the second and third rise. I kind of combined two cycles in one common time. So explained it more clearly?

And you painted my bread, where one lifting cycle (proofing) is indicated at 5 o'clock. Duc is not a question. At least 15. The first lifting cycle up to 24 hours is configurable.

Thank you, now everything is clear!

I read the whole topic. Thank you all very much for sharing your experience generously. I have a Panasonic, it has been working continuously for the fourth year, and I am very pleased with it. I chose, based on the advice of the forum, I bought it despite the rather average reviews on Amazon. Tomorrow I'm driving for Zojirushi CEC-20. I will master. We have a big family, I make a lot of dough, my Panasonic can't do it alone.

Good time everyone)
Here is the beauty released by this company:
Home Bakery Virtuoso® Plus Breadmaker BB-PDC20
I wanted to throw a link to the manufacturer, but the site does not allow ... (
Nobody has one here yet?)

[Nawy]

Nawy,

Is it very different from the usual Virtuoso?

So I'm interested in myself. It seems that from the information on the manufacturer's website it is said about additional sources of heating from above and below. They write that you can even fry something. And so they did not find the instructions. General information only. It seems that with each new model, only new improvements)
Here, I baked bread at home on rye sourdough and figured out that the time for raising the sourdough should not exceed 7 hours at room temperature. Otherwise, sourness often appears ... And if you bake in such an oven and set the baking time, say, from evening to morning, then how many hours at 28 or 38 programmed degrees do I need to set in the program? Only empirically is this solved or does someone know for sure already?
I want to buy this oven for a long time, but all some funny discrepancies, excuses ...)))
And it also has vegan, sugar-free, gluten-free (I wonder what kind of regime ???) salt-free bread.

I read the description on the American Amazon.Yes, there is a built-in heating element in the lid. This is definitely good.

But the question is, did they raise the baking temperature? For rye bread below 180 it is not enough. I have Panas. They say he issues 160.

I've been looking at Virtuoso for a long time ...

Yes, the oven is not for ordinary bread. For some reason, she literally attracts me ... Although, it would be better if I pulled her



Scarecrow, how long have you got it? Doesn't it junk? (is it okay to poke or stop? I can)

I read the description on the American Amazon. Yes, there is a built-in heating element in the lid. This is definitely good.

But the question is, did they raise the baking temperature? For rye bread below 180 it is not enough. I have Panas. They say he issues 160.

I've been looking at Virtuoso for a long time ...

It is possible with a rye oven lower than 200. It just takes more time.



Good bread comes out if fenugreek seeds are added; a teaspoon per loaf. Pour boiling water overnight. In the morning, water in the dough, and the seeds there.

Zorushka Home Bakery Virtuoso® Plus Breadmaker BB-PDC20 arrived
I don't know how to insert a photo here ... I already bought a transformer)

[Nawy]

Nawy,

I have had a stove for several years (when was the first post on this topic there?))). There have been no problems yet.

Poke as much as you like, I'm not worried)).

What transformer?

Fig knows) Chinese probably. It just connects wires to the terminals. The stove is impressive) and some kind of tricky bucket. But at first glance it is steel, but the outer surface is shiny, and the inside is matte. But .... metal, sort of.



Interestingly, instructions and recipes are in French too. Maybe they not only deliver their goods to America?
I don’t know which bread to start with ... I’ve always baked my sourdough. I will think about how to make bread in Zorushka on it, so as not to interfere with the process at all ...
Would you advise on the forum proven starter recipes so that you like it? Thank you in advance
.. Why can't I download the instruction? They ask for 5 bucks) Maybe you need to enter a secret number from the stove ... I will translate from a paper one ...

[Nawy]

Nawy,

Be careful with the transformer. I also bought a Chinese one with a stove. The oven burned out. The new one had a replacement power supply unit. Then I bought an expensive and heavy Tula Calm. All this time he has been working on it. After that story, only Calm. When we bought a Mosquito Patriot with an American plug (a serious expensive car to the garden), we didn't even think about experimenting. Only Calm.))




If you baked with sourdough, bake with it. According to his recipe, tested. Just program the oven according to your algorithm.

For what instruction is 5 bucks ?? In English?? I haven't seen Russian at all, and English is free on my home site. I read passably in English, I didn't need Russian. I'm in the subject here and translated a number of recipes for girls. Take a look if necessary. And I described programming for those who do not speak English. So read it, take your time. Everything will fall into place. I will help you figure it out, if that.

And French is in Canadian Quebec, for example, the official state language is French. Therefore, it is not a fact that this is for Europe.



Oh, I'm back to you out of habit)). But this is not true! I meant "you". I'll fix it!



Nawy,

Now I saw about gluten-free bread .. It is practically in every oven. These are special blends sold for people with celiac disease (gluten intolerance). I have a 10-year-old Panasonic. And in the old ancient lie was. So ... Did you have any oven before that?

There was never a stove. "At the oven" baking) And they ask for 5 bucks on their native Zverushinsky site ... You will not check, otherwise, maybe I burst out somewhere I can't download, I don't know how. Oh, I "vykat" ...)))
Not ... the transformer is o-very heavy ... two kilowatts, or something ...

[Nawy]

Nawy, I downloaded everything from my home site without money. Link under the spoiler.

🔗

There is a file in PDF. Can I send it to the mail? or try again on my link. There, look at the column on the right, it has "INSTRUCTION MANUAL Download". You push and shake you

[Nawy]

Nawy,

It seems to me - first run at least a couple of times automatic programs with yeast. Just because there was never a stove.To master the algorithm of its work, to get acquainted, to learn how the bun looks.

[Nawy]

Although you can do the yeast yourself ... I would not want to mess with them))) But, apparently, you will have to use the advice for the practical ability to handle the machine

Nawy, I downloaded everything from my home site without money. Link under the spoiler.
There is a file in PDF. Can I send it to the mail? or try again on my link. There, look at the column on the right, it has "INSTRUCTION MANUAL Download". You push and shake you

I pressed, nothing happens ...

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow,

Natasha, and in your Zosya there were no differences in flour-water recipes for the stove? Is everything about the same? In the sense that American flour is similar to Russian in terms of moisture capacity?

I still feel bad about mixing in the oven with two stirrers. My panic starts

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki,

I don’t remember! I usually don't do it strictly according to the recipe. I mean, I put it in, and then on the machine I drop in and look at the consistency of the kolobok, add what I need.



Nawy,

I use pressed ones. I hardly ever trade dry. In HP, in the sense.

The stove is beeping and beeping. Can you tell me if there was a shape function in past models? When it is possible to program the interruption time of the program for 1 hour in order to remove the dough from the mold and shape it as desired. hmm ... shape? )
And for some reason, nowhere in the instructions for this model is the temperature on the dough rises (((

I can't get a baked beautiful crust, well, no way ... I bet 1.20 and still the top is light. I bake on a homemade mode. I think, try to bake on the existing programs ...
Interestingly, in the oven the bread turns out great: tall, baked with a golden brown crust. And here, if you make the same dough, the dome collapses. It is a pity that you cannot adjust the baking temperature manually.

[Nawy]

Nawy,

There is also the color of the crust. I mean, the color selection key. Make (- are we on you or on you ?? I don't remember !!))) not a medium (medium baking is the default), but a dark one. The dome is failing - the problem is somewhere in the chosen setting or in the consistency of the dough. Something doesn't fit the car. The dome collapses from re-standing (by the time of baking, the peak of fermentation passes and the dough is blown away instead of further rising) or excessive moisture (the dough does not stupidly hold due to excessive plasticity). Treated with either the smallest reduction in yeast / leaven or a reduction in the last proofing. if excessive moisture - water reduction or flour increase.

Next ... What about autolysis in your recipe? Are you using the autolysis stage?

you can read more about autolysis ... something I have not encountered in baking ... we are on you)
... absolutely the same dough (I worked it out in an ordinary oven a couple of years ago) gives excellent results ... It's about the baking temperature ... I baked 15 at 230 degrees and 35 minutes at 190
I knead by hand, only bake in the oven. I will try to further reduce the water or sourdough
You need to call this proofing that way) Well, for fools, all the words are clever (that's me about myself) Yes, I stand it for 12 hours, then another 2 hours in a bread machine, mixed with flour and other things.

[Nawy]

Nawy,

Autolysis is not proofing. This is the preliminary stage of flour swelling. In short, you need to mix flour with liquid, preferably without the presence of fats (oil) and yeast (so as not to start the fermentation process ahead of time). Takes 30-40 minutes (mix so that the flour just moistens and leave alone). Then butter and yeast / sourdough is added and full kneading is carried out (in this sequence, the swollen dough should be kneaded) and everything according to the plan, as described in the recipe / usually do. See the difference in the quality of the dough and the finished product right with your eyes. The dough becomes a "silk handkerchief". And the dough becomes stronger, floats less, keeps its shape better.

Proofing is the last raising of the dough before baking. Therefore, for 12 hours you have not proofing, but fermentation. And something sooooo much even for a sourdough. Fermentation takes 12-24 hours for me. But not bread dough. It will simply ferment during this time. Che, I still can't fit ...
12 hours fermentation

yes, I ferment the leaven for 12 hours, then I mix it with flour and other things, that is, I make the dough, and let it sit in the oven for a couple of hours (everything rises well, 2-3 times 0, then I bake 1.20
I don't use oil and yeast. I will try, as you suggested, first mix the flour with water and let stand for 30 minutes, then add the leaven. Thank you so much

In my model, on "homemade" programs, the color of the crust is not exposed ...

[Nawy]

Nawy,

Check out the last stage of programming - baking. I change the intensity of baking / crust color on it. There, the baking temperature is different depending on the selected crust color. And yours is light - it is logical, because in bread there is nothing but flour, water, salt and leaven. This is the worst-tinted type of bread. He needs a very high baking temperature. If you want, you can try adding st. l. dry milk (well, or part of the liquid - milk, whey). Coloring will increase / improve significantly. It won't affect the taste much. Sourdough will also work more actively, by the way, by consuming milk sugar.

Thank you. My crust color is regulated only in standard programs. Do you mind if I climb in your stories? Read interesting

Well, yes, I have not yet achieved the dome. On the contrary, it falls upward or under the crust a void from above ... Well, stubborn oven Looks like its baking temperature is much lower than my "oven" 200 Celsius. For more than a month now it has not been possible to bake as expected. It even became interesting - when will everything work out? )))

Let's try to reduce yeast. Somewhere on the first pages I argued with someone exactly about the same thing)). There are two options here: excessive moisture or permeability. That is, either the consistency is such that it does not allow to hold the dome, or the dough is slightly fermented. Trying to reduce the yeast a little to begin with.

That is, you need to put less leaven - I don’t use yeast in principle? This is a thought! Then the water automatically decreases ...
I have to help the Beast knead the dough, otherwise she stops if it's too thick. I open the lid, with one hand I help with a spatula, with the other hand I insert a fountain pen into the hole of the sensor, so that the machine thinks that the lid is closed.With an open top, all operations are suspended ... Oh, these Japanese)
P.S. And, after all, you already told me about how to reduce the amount of leaven, but I overlooked ... (

[Nawy]

Nawy,

And with me, with the lid open, he calmly kneads))). I, Slavatebuddha, have a non-advanced version))).

And what are you kneading so thick there ?!

Yes, try a little less sourdough. But only a little, not dramatically.

Here's what I'm trying to create:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=305053.0
It seems that everyone succeeds, but not at my zorushka
I will reduce the dough by 100 grams. Hope a little of this.

Well, finally I have selected the ratio of flour, water, sourdough. It turned out a delicious, beautiful loaf. It took almost two months ... Not that I tried it every day, but I baked it a couple of times a week) I still don't know how to place a photo here ...
In general, the proportions posted on the forum in recipes for sourdough bread are not suitable for Zorushka: bakes at least 1 hour and 20 minutes. The thick rye dough gets in the way only with "higher" help - you have to actively help with a spatula. Stir for 6-8 minutes, then warning signals are heard, "add" lights up and blinks and the stirrers stall ... However, this time is enough for uniform kneading of the dough and the bread is baked without yeast, exclusively on rye sourdough. Delicious, aromatic, porous. Cool and useful, in a word, bread. Congratulate me, okay ...
I have the following proportions:
520 g of whole grain rye flour,
563 g of leaven,
3 tbsp. spoons of pine nuts,
16 g salt
2-3 teas. spoons of honey
1 tsp cumin,
1 tsp fennel,
230 g water for the dough,
In the leaven, the ratio of flour to water is 2 to 3. I add 3 tbsp of the previous leaven. spoons.

[Nawy]

Last weekend we also got a BB-PDC20, was on sale. I baked the first bread according to the recipe, light rye bread, sagged a bit, but ate it immediately and baked well.Now, after rereading this topic completely, I am looking for recipes for rye and Borodino bread for this machine. With the size of the car, it may have turned out to be too much, there are three of us and my mother lives next door, but my wife eats bread on both cheeks, so I think we won't take a smaller car, but just share the bread with the neighbors.

I'll post a photo of the first loaf tomorrow. Thank you all for the answers in this thread!

Ruslan.









Nawy, could you share the recipes for rye bread and its varieties for your car?

Do you bake by leaps and bounds? I'm on leaven only. I also made small bread on this oven. It worked out quite well. On the first program.

Do you bake by leaps and bounds? I'm on leaven only. I also made small bread on this oven. It worked out quite well. On the first program.

yes, I bake with trembling, but I baked the second loaf this morning
I never did bread before. Ready to learn with sourdough if you tell me how to make it

Also, if someone on this forum bakes bread on dry shivers on Zojirushi, please write your reviews, sharpened for it.

The second loaf turned out better on the outside but denser on the inside, I decided to change the cycle to 4 and the crust to a dark one and replaced some of the flour with whole wheat flour, and therefore the bread was tighter.

[Nawy]

Hello. I have the same car, I bought it 15 years ago. So far, no problem. Well, in some places the anti-stick coating is worn out. In what mode do you bake rye bread in it? Could you post the recipe? Either yeast or sourdough, it doesn't matter. The leaven really died, I didn't feed it, I have to grow a new one, but it's not scary. Which, by the way, brings me to a different topic: the problem with rye flour in America. That is, its almost complete absence ...

Nawy, writes that you have to knead your hand to help. Bad ... no matter how the machine breaks down .. Or maybe knead it by hand and then put the dough into the machine? Deceive her, so to speak. And during her automatic kneading, give her an empty bowl? Although why then a bread maker is generally needed, and in the oven then you can ...

Began to knead the dough by hand. All the same, the stove had to be helped with a spatula.
I'm baking now on the cake program. At the beginning of the program, Zorusha mixes the dough for about 18 minutes. In general, at this time I do not put on a bowl. The oven thinks everything is ok. I put the dough on a small loaf:
Sourdough - 220 g.
Water - 175 g.
Honey - 2 - 3 tsp. spoons.
Cumin - 2 tsp spoons.
Pine nut - 2 tables spoons.
Corn nerafin. oil - 1 tbsp. the spoon.
Whole grain wheat flour - 340 g.
Salt - 12 g.
I turn the crust on the darkest.
I bake for 1 hour 10 minutes. That is, I turn off the oven before the end of the program.

I do not understand, there is no rye flour in America ??



I don't know how to make a fried crust

I do not understand, there is no rye flour in America ??

Until recently I was in the village where I live in one shop. Somewhere gone. You have to buy by mail. In addition, there was wallpaper in the store; for Russian bread, peeled is most often needed. That is, you have to sift yourself. The climate in America is different, more wheat flour is grown here. Not many people use rye flour. We got used to wheat. Other morals. If people used rye flour, then of course it would be in the store. And it's not profitable. As I understand. These are all my guesses, I did not study why everything is as it is ...

There is a lot of rye flour in the USA, and without any grade, which I often see on Russian YouTube, take the highest grade and immediately remember

“—The second freshness has been sent to Ossetrin,” said the barman.

- My dear, this is nonsense!

- What nonsense?

- Second freshness - that's what nonsense! There is only one freshness - the first, it is also the last. And if the sturgeon is of the second freshness, it means that it is rotten! "
If you live in a city with little demand for Eastern European food, then there is no flour in stores, I am sure that in Chicago, NY, etc., this problem is not. In Montana, rye flour is not often found, in the Walmart only Hodgson Mill Flour Rye, 5-Pound - it is the coarsest grind, on Amazon it is cheaper to take it somewhere around 2.40 USD per pound.But I liked Grandpa Bob's Organic Dark Rye Flour, I take directly from their website, just 25 pounds bag for 32 ye, they have days when delivery is free, which I used and bought two 11 kg bags at once. It is of the type peeled and the leaven on it is mad.
As I bought the car, I bought a book by the author of the site theryebaker dot com, tried all the recipes by trembling and now switched to sourdough. From yeast breads I liked Finnish bread with rye malt very much.

If anyone is interested from the USA, write in a personal, we will exchange phones and share recipes. Good luck!

Ruslan, hello.

Can you share a complete Finnish malt bread recipe? Here is the whole recipe and the program you are using. Thank you in advance!

Ruslan, hello.

Can you share a complete Finnish malt bread recipe? Here is the whole recipe and the program you are using. Thank you in advance!

Yes, of course, I'm sorry I didn't answer right away, I sent the letter in a personal message.

Ruslan, can you post the recipe here please? Or send me too, if it's not difficult)

and here do not lay out the recipe please?

I would also like to see

At first I tried the recipes on ordinary yeast from this website and there my family liked the recipe for this Finnish bread -, I tried to insert the link and the forum gave a warning, so I will send a link to the recipe in a personal

instead of dark corn syrup, I take molasses, set the program to 15 - a hand stove. I will write in abbreviations as in the car goes in order, R - 20 min, K- 20, Rise 1- 40, R2 - 45, R3 - 0, Bake - 1:10

See, based on your experience, the consistency of the dough and how it fits and make your adjustments.