Sourdough bread in the oven

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Good afternoon girls. Can you please tell me, I have been baking bread only with sourdough for a long time, and I am very happy about it, but now I have faced the problem of how to store bread. Put a polythene in a bag, it suffocates there, in winter I wrapped it in a towel and kept it just on the table, but now in summer, with such heat, the next day, the bread dries very quickly and turns into a loaf of crackers. Share your experience of how who keeps bread in order to keep it soft and fresh.

I wrap it in a towel (napkin) and put it in a cellophane. I change the towel every 2-3 days as it gets damp.

I cut it all, put some aside, the rest in the freezer and take out as needed. But I would not say that sourdough bread quickly turns stale, rather the opposite, and believe me, it is very hot here.

Hello dear forum users.
Thank you very much for such a wonderful site, which once again inspired me to bake with sourdough.
Perhaps you can answer the questions I have in the baking process.
The first bread turned out to be tolerable, without large holes, the leaven was young. With the second one, there were problems that I never had during baking: the bread cracked on top I made with eternal leaven (stored in my refrigerator) according to the Raisin recipe (thank you very much). I took it out of the refrigerator and fed it twice during the day. Then she made a dough. I took a lot of sourdough, about two glasses, I wanted it to be sour. Added 100 grams of rye, 50 whole grains, 50 - bran, about 150 ml of beer. The dough rose quickly, in about 4 hours. I made a dough kneading: 100 g of rye, 50 of whole grain, 50 of bran, 100 g of beer, about half a spoonful of yeast. The dough was kneaded with a whisk. since it was watery, I did not replace it with a testomenalka, and so it turned out. It stood with me for about an hour and increased more than twice. Then I added salt, sugar, butter, spoon
(and why, by the way, is butter added to the dough, what does it give?)
mixed and added everything else: nuts, seeds, sesame seeds, poppy seeds, flax, caraway seeds, smoked shrimp (or balyk?) (I didn't cut the bacon), smoked suluguni cheese, a little yellow paprika, green thyme. A little bit of everything, but it turned out a bit too much. The dough did not rise well, it was thin. It was allowed to rest in a clay duck for about an hour. It did not rise twice, but it rose very noticeably. He heated the oven to 250 and put it in the same roaster. Before turning on the oven, I poured water into the tray below and it steamed for a long time after baking. Reduced the temperature to 220 and baked without a lid at all. It was badly baked inside, it took a hard crust on top and burst, the shank lying on top was almost charred. I baked it for more than an hour, about twenty hours somewhere, then I thought that it would still be there because of the additives inside, and turned it off. Maybe the water shouldn't have been left for so long and not poured at the beginning?
The holes turned out to be good and they taste very good, but there is no sourness, of course.
Please answer, what did I do wrong? I would be grateful for your advice

[Jil]

Jil, I now bake with French sourdough, I have no experience of working with eternal, but I think the principle is approximately the same.
Firstly, analyze the state of your starter culture (whether it is young or old, try the taste - it can be from pleasantly sour to sour)
Secondly, if you knead the dough for baking in the oven, then it really should be liquid, but not quite liquid, otherwise you will not be able to mold it.
Thirdly, I would add sugar immediately when mixing (it improves the work of the yeast by giving it food). But butter keeps your bread soft for a longer period.
Fourth, it seems to me that you added too many components that make the bread thicken, because of which it could not rise high (and you already had a heavy dough, since it was dominated by rye flour, bran, whole grain flour).
Fifth, I would change the baking technology: let the bread stand on baking paper in one container, and bake in a hot duck. I turn on the oven with the goose-maker when I have already molded and set the bread to stand. For me, it fits in 40-50 minutes (otherwise it stops). At the end of the proofing, I quickly take out the roaster from the oven, carefully transfer the bread (along with baking paper) into it, cover it and set it for a maximum of 15 minutes. Then I reduce it to 180 and bake it for another 35 minutes. Then, due to the temperature shock, the bread will still grow, and a thin and crispy crust will form on it.

[kava]

kava I completely agree with you, while, you know, the thought was forming, you have already answered Still, bread (or pie) Jil weighed it down in full.

Thank you so much Kava for your advice. I am so grateful to you. Next time I will do this, and with a photo, if no one minds. My husband just loves a lot of things in bread

I figured out how to replace the stone. I have a Bergofovskaya duckling (oval), which also has a thick induction bottom on the lid. I used the cover from the oval as a stone, and the oval itself as a cover. It turned out great!

[Kalmykova]

Kalmykova, great bread! The recipe for the studio, pliiz
And today I also baked in the oven here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.0

One hole after another happened to the old woman. I'll tell you about the latter. I was going to bake a French country gray bread using one of my books. Made a sourdough I will not say that French, based on, forgive me, Zest, to / m from Admin. I took a part and fed every day with wheat flour and water in equal parts. I kept it on the table in the kitchen, threw it away, added it. in short, did SOMETHING. A brisk high lifting force came out, does not sink in water, does not burn in fire (according to unverified data). I kneaded exactly according to the book, the dough came out thin, added flour, the formed bun was cute and soft. after 2 hours, kneaded, let the air out of it. again in a bun and on a towel, sprinkled with flour and in a bowl for proofing for the night, for 8-10 hours. I got up at night to visit, and in the morning (very early), when I had already heated the oven, I began to transfer the dough to a baking sheet - it was here that the broken dough stuck to the bottom of the towel, and even before I discovered it I tried to pull it out of the bowl, it shriveled and naturally from the soft airy dough came a hard, dense booze of a rather unsightly look and, by the way, did not shine with taste either. The question is - was it possible to put it in the form and bake in it? For example, in an aluminum disposable?

Many people bake in the same form as they argue, I think this is not a problem, but why in a disposable one? For this case, you can also use a constant, so to speak. Or you can stand it on parchment paper in one form, and then transfer it to another (preferably a larger one) together with it.

[victosh]

victosh

Why should I forgive you or not forgive you? It's not in my competence. Everyone chooses their own path.

And judging by the description, the problem is not only that the dough stuck to the towel, it also stopped. First 2 hours, and then another 8-10 hours - this is a lot, if left for proofing at room temperature. And the stuck dough immediately settles at any attempt to transplant it somewhere. If you put it on a towel, then it is better to put it not in a bowl, but in a colander, so that there is some kind of ventilation, and the dough does not get wet from below, but a crust begins to form. It is imperative to sprinkle flour on the towel, I use corn and rice, it sticks to them less.

Personally, I prefer to sit in one container and bake in another. But many girls distribute and bake in one form, it turns out great. I won't say anything about disposable aluminum, but I had experience in special baking dishes. The main thing is not to forget to grease the mold well with a non-stick mixture before you leave the dough in it for proofing.

Thank you. For a separate colander I already read that it is good to do proofing in it, but, as always, I did not attach any importance. As for the time, since the dough was without yeast, I decided that it would be just right to stand at night, but I forgot about the temperature, thanks again. I'll go drink a hundred drops of valerian ...

I can write about "anti-aging". So, take 5 grams of sourdough per 125 grams. water and 125 gr. flour, this corresponds to 1:50. But you don't need to do this all the time, the leaven will weaken. I do this from time to time.

I just had this plastic surgery. The porridge came out thicker than the pancakes, covered it and left it in the kitchen ... and then what to do with it?

[kava]

kava ! Thanks for the praise! The recipe, or rather its basis, is here in the list of recipes in the section of bread with additives (I can't make links). In this case, spelled and whole grain flour got into the MK sourdough, and the batch was made on flour of the 1st grade. Of the additives, only flaxseed. And I really liked your last oven, but the question is: why add yeast?
victosh! And immediately after kneading, I put the dough in the refrigerator (though I set it to 13 degrees) for the night, or even for almost a day, and then I take it out, form a loaf, proofing in the heat from 30 minutes to an hour - during this time it increases almost twice.

[victosh]

victosh, from this porridge a new leaven will ripen. It's hot here now, so in the same proportion as you grilled, it ripens for me in 6 hours.

Kalmykova, I’m psychologically afraid to give up yeast altogether. It seems to me that either the leaven will not pull out on its own, or that you will have to stand it day-and-day and, accordingly, be tied to the dough. I also have a spelled mixture (but according to the instructions, it must be soaked for an hour in warm water), and if for cotton rose, spelled - what is it?

Well, I bake without yeast at all, even heavy pastries. And no day-to-day proofing, just give the temperature for proofing. I put on the included dryer for vegetables - so wheat takes off in an hour. Rye for two. Spelled is a relative of wheat, only very much more useful. And since in this mixture it is coarsely ground, so I put it in sourdough for a day.

Yes, it is not very cold here either at 27 degrees. An hour and a half have passed since I kneaded it until nothing happens, but by the morning it should rise, as I understand it? But about the dough in the refrigerator, I did so often with yeast, but I didn’t risk it with zokvass, but I’ll try. Your bread, Kolmykova, really looks very appetizing

[victosh]

victosh

I'm afraid that now I will spoil your mood again, but I cannot remain silent
If I were you, I would not bother with the resuscitation of the starter culture made on the basis of "refrigerated". The result is too unpredictable and may not justify the effort spent at all.
It is better to grow a new one from scratch, which will not be spoiled by storage in the refrigerator.

Zest, it is possible that you are right as always, but I think we will only find out in bread. In the meantime, she behaves very well, actively gives out bubbles and was ready in exactly 6 hours. I threw it away, left it, added it, went to bed, in the morning - all in bubbles, tried it: not very sour. I repeated the procedure, went to work and when I arrived, many hours had passed, there were bubbles, but the middle seemed to settle. Did you repeat the session and continue this way until Thursday evening, when will I put the dough? And do not be afraid to spoil my mood - communication with you covers everything, and in general I enjoy the forum.

[Only now my dough does not gurgle and does not bubble]

The previous page was one of my first breads.
In this I have removed many additives. For dough I used grain, rye and spelled.Sugar, as advised by Kava, added to the dough.
Only now my dough does not gurgle and does not bubble
As additives I used: about a spoonful of grated carrots (salted and squeezed), a little caraway, two pieces of dried tomatoes in oil, oatmeal, soaked. Maybe you shouldn't soak it?
The taste turned out to be specific. Maybe I gave spelled, I do it for the first time? Or maybe oatmeal?
No sour Sourdough for three weeks

[victosh]

victosh

Bubbles are bubbles, and how many times does the leaven itself rise?

P.S. You frightened me with your valerian, so now I'm afraid to say an extra word

Jil

Try to bake simple bread for a start, without any additives, then you will see what your leaven is capable of (by the way, what is your sourdough? How do you feed and store?). Such an abundance of additives can in itself "plant" bread.
I never add sugar to the dough in sourdough bread.

Try to bake simple bread for a start, without any additives, then you will see what your leaven is capable of (by the way, what is your sourdough? How do you feed and store?). Such an abundance of additives can in itself "plant" bread.
I never add sugar to the dough in sourdough bread.

Thank you for the answer. I'll try just without additives. But you can use whole grain flour, I think? And then the husband from white is unlikely to be. We sell too many breads with additives (in supermarkets - freshly baked, still warm, it is still difficult to cut), so he is spoiled for this. But as an experiment, you can, and white too, you can offer neighbors later
My curtain is "eternal". But at first I kept it in the refrigerator, and now I am reanimating it, a little over a week, mainly in the room. Sometimes, for an hour in the refrigerator, and take it out (I'm afraid it doesn't turn sour, we had 28 tonight in the evening). I feed every 2-3 days, but not enough: if I am not going to bake, then I add a spoon with the top. I bake once a week, a small loaf
Why don't you add sugar, Zest? I've tried honey - it's so fragrant.
And my bread is "planted"? (on this page, it just fled after removing it from the proofing dish, it was much wider for baking)
I also posted on the previous page. Are the holes not an indicator?

Jil, my leaven is certainly not eternal. But you have a question about filling: for 2-3 days without food, does your starter culture not overoxidize, does not liquefy?
In the summer I feed mine in the morning and in the evening every day, but here a spoon every 2-3 days?

Jil, my leaven is certainly not eternal. But you have a question about filling: for 2-3 days without food, your starter culture does not overoxidize, does not liquefy?
In the summer I feed mine in the morning and in the evening every day, but here a spoon every 2-3 days?

himichka, I'm completely new to this business. So, excuse me, I don't understand: how does it peroxide? I have it with sourness. And then, I put it in the refrigerator from time to time, but I try not to "dubar". I bake once a week, so it turns out like this: a spoon and a half twice, and then four spoons every other day. Now I was sleeping, - it seems to be growing

[Jil]

Jil

Unfortunately, you are feeding your starter in the wrong way. She is constantly in a semi-faint state of hunger and eats herself. The flour protein in such a leaven is depleted to the extreme. It is almost impossible to get high-quality bread with such a leaven.

You got into a topic in which supporters of regular feeding of the leaven and storing it at a pace gathered. not lower than +10 - + 12 * С.

And we feed our leavens as follows:

- at each feeding, the amount of flour is added to the starter culture NOT LESS than that contained in the starter culture being fed;
- as soon as the leaven grows to its peak and gets ready to settle, it's time to feed it;
- in order to reduce the frequency of feeding and increase the duration of the ripening of the starter culture, you can take only a teaspoon of the starter culture for feeding and feed it in a high proportion, adding 100-125 g of flour and the same amount of water.

Try reading this topic from the very beginning, here the advantages and disadvantages of this method have already been discussed many times.

Good luck to you

Zest Well, to be honest, after the early morning feeding, she spent today in a wine refrigerator (on the sly!) Where + 16- + 18 and rose twice in total. Do you think this is a rather low result? There is no place to retreat anyway, and if nothing succeeds, then there is nothing left but to finally follow your advice and start all over again. We'll see...

[Jil]

Jil

- in order to reduce the frequency of feeding and increase the duration of the ripening of the starter culture, you can take only a teaspoon of the starter culture for feeding and feed it in a high proportion, adding 100-125 g of flour and the same amount of water.

Try reading this topic from the very beginning, here the advantages and disadvantages of this method have already been discussed many times.

Thanks to Temki, I read, but somehow I got confused: sometimes they write differently. This means that if I bake once a week, then I need to throw away most of the sourdough, and leave just a little bit for further feeding. It's a shame ..
Today I baked bread, the dough bubbled more, I interfered, so she let such bubbles. Only at first it rises and blows out like dough, and then a little, a cm sags and starts .. I, probably, did not understand correctly "gurgles and bubbles". I thought it should be straight with sound. The smell was awesome; I haven't taken it out of the oven yet, it's getting cold there

[Jil]

Jil

Bake and eat delicious bread for health

And if you bake only once a week, then, indeed, a lot of "extra" leaven is obtained. But I refer this to the article "feeding a living organism"
Consider also the moment that the ripening period can be extended by lowering the temperature (but not lower than + 10 * C).

[victosh]

Zest Well, to be honest, after the early morning feeding, she spent today in a wine refrigerator (on the sly!) Where + 16- + 18 and rose twice in total. Do you think this is a rather low result? There is no place to retreat anyway, and if nothing succeeds, then there is nothing left but to finally follow your advice and start all over again. We'll see...

victosh, the sourdough you can and will work, lift the bread (lifting in the wine refrigerator 2 times is normal).
Here we are talking about something else. During storage at low temperatures, your original starter culture lost lactic acid bacteria, only wild yeast remained in it. No matter how much you soften it now and create new yeast on its basis, but they (these bacteria) cannot be returned. On bread, this will affect the rough crumb pores, thick and whitish crust, insufficient aroma.
You are now spending so much energy on maintaining life and reanimating the defective starter culture that it would make sense to just grow a new one from scratch, with a full set of necessary bacteria and properties.

but that's what I would do. You have the right to go your own way.

Thank you. So, if I bake once a week, then I need to throw away most of the sourdough, and leave just a little bit for further feeding. It's a shame ..

The excess sourdough can be dried and then added to the bread (counting it as flour), you get a good taste. Topic "Dry starter cultures"
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=12958.0

Here's what happened after resuscitation. not very similar to say the least

... it should have looked like an airy sourdough bread.

In my opinion, it turned out great. Good fine-porous bread with an appetizing crumb. Yesterday I had a similar one, such a leaky one came out (about 400 g of sourdough boiled

Kava, that's right - yours is full of holes, and mine is finely porous, but I also want to be full of holes. something is wrong with me, it turns out that the right zest and my leaven are wrong.

[Viktosha]

Viktosha, if you need a hole full of holes, then this is for you in Italian, with us now, despite the heat, he walks in the favorites. We bake every day and examine the holes and their size. There were guests today, they swept a bun. They ate both with watermelon.

hjmjchka And we use more watermelon with feta cheese, I recommend it.What Italian do you mean? I would not want only white flour.

Zest. Conclusions are made, but ... again, as they say, I stuck into the materiel, namely on the first page of the topic of fr-cie leavens and immediately after that into one of my books, which offers to close up the ancient (Pharaonic? where nothing needs to be thrown away. After all, you will always have time to get out right? Therefore, I have already repaired it, but the process is lengthy, I will report the results, if interested. No, perhaps I'll let you know in any case, follow the advertisements.

[Viktosha]

Viktosha, You would indicate in your profile where you are from.

And many people bake Italian bread here, look in this thread, and Misha and Zest. White flour bread, very thin dough when kneaded. But delicious!

In my opinion, it turned out great. Good fine-porous bread with an appetizing crumb. Yesterday I had a similar one, such a leaky one came out (about 400 g of sourdough boiled

Kava, or you can have an exact recipe for your bread on the previous page with 400 g of sourdough? How much of what are you putting? So I liked it. And the main recipe, as I understand it, Raisins, from the first page?

[Jil]

Jil, I laid out the exact recipe as a separate topic https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=13276.new;topicseen#new But there can be any variations on the theme (something more, something less). The recipe contains 350 g of sourdough, if by 400, then by 50 g slightly reduce the amount of water / flour.

[victosh]

victosh! What about your temperature? The leaven loves warmth at its inception (28-30), otherwise either the wrong microorganisms grow, or very slowly. Try lactic acid again. I did it 2 times, and once according to Calvel. I like bread on MK more than on Kalvel.

Kava, thanks for the recipe. I will definitely try
Please tell me how to knead, with what breaks the dough from this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...f&Itemid=26&topic=13653.0 without a bread maker. Baking in the oven

Kalmykova, our pens are probably growing in the wrong place, or at worst the flour is not very good, but there are no problems with the temperature, to put it mildly, very warm. In short, my sourdough does not start without any signs of life. It's good that I mixed another one in parallel with some kind of natural one from the Italian sisters, I forgot my last name. She's well behaved so far and should be ready tomorrow morning. And I also did k / m 2 times, both came out well and I really liked the black bread on it, but it must be stored in the refrigerator, but Raisin does not order, and on it (k / M) I will not see Raisin's bread as my ears ...

And I turned up one refrigerator by 13-14 degrees, and sourdoughs, cold proofing dough, vegetables and fruits and other nonsense live well there. And with the pens everything worked out for you, the dispute is not appropriate! It seems that all the gold-pens of the Russian-speaking population have gathered here. And what is natural sourdough from?

Here's what I got "based on" bread without kneading. Natural sourdough: 200 g of flour (I took unbleached wheat) 95 ml of water, a little honey (I put almost a teaspoon) I got a pretty spongy dough, roll a ball, make a cross cut and put it in a dish greased with vegetable oil. cover with foil and leave on the table for 24 hours. After a day, the dough will creep, the incision will disappear, and bubbles will appear through the mesh for 12 hours more and it is ready. I fed her and in gratitude for this she raised me rye dough without the help of yeast, though I don't attach a photo overnight - take my word for it.

Comrades, I ask the audience for help - if this has already been written somewhere, then post a link:

how to properly bake bread in a ceramic container, if you start the oven from a cold oven, that is, how long is it under the lid and to what temperature, and how much without the lid, for whites and rye?

not necessarily accurate, at least roughly

Comrades, I ask the audience for help

When the oven heats up to the desired temperature, 15 minutes under the lid, and then until cooked, only about an hour at a temperature of 180 degrees, if there is no temperature probe.

[himichka]

himichka, Thank you

I.e:

20-25 minutes of heating + 15 minutes = 35-40 under the lid

and 20-25 min without lid

In total, about an hour.

I hope I got it right.

There is a temperature probe, there will be no problems in determining readiness

By trial and error
The conclusion came to me myself:
I love white not very much,
For black - I will give my soul.

For example: rye with bran and new-fashioned quinoa grits. Some external unpretentiousness is explained by the fact that while I can not adapt to the new form in any way, I turned out to be Bolshevik. In my opinion, the crust is a little hard, obviously overexposed in the oven. And a few more words about the so-called sourdough. natural, I do not know where to stick with it, so I am writing here. She is nimble and lives in a cold wine-ke made of wheat flour (by the way, I NEVER got ANY sourdough on our rye flour), in 8-9 hours she raises rye dough without yeast at all. moderately sour. Now I divided it into 2 parts, one fed again with wheat and the other for the experiment with rye.