Whole Grain Sourdough

Alexandra

Stage 1

3 1/2 tbsp. l. whole grain flour (took Belovodye wheat wallpaper of coarse grinding) and
1/4 cup sugar-free pineapple juice (I took Rich 100% pineapple juice)

Stir, place in a jar with a loosely closed lid and leave at room temperature for 48 hours. Stir vigorously 3-4 times a day.

Stage 2

Add:
2 tbsp. l. whole flour
2 tbsp. l. pineapple juice.

Stir and leave at room temperature for 24-28 hours, stirring vigorously 3-4 times a day. Fermentation bubbles and a characteristic pleasant sour smell should appear.

Stage 3
Add:
5 1/4 Art. l. whole flour
3 tbsp. l. drinking purified water

Stir and leave for 24 hours

Stage 4

Add:

1/2 cup whole flour
1/4 - 1/3 cup purified drinking water

The leaven is ready.

If using pz per week, store in the refrigerator under the lid on the least cold shelf. On the eve of the day of baking, take out, feed once or twice without putting it in the refrigerator. Set aside the required amount before baking, feed the rest and put in the refrigerator.

If not used for a long time, add flour and water and refrigerate once a week.

If used often - keep in a cool place not in the refrigerator, feed every day or every other day.

Top dressing: equal parts by weight of whole flour and water.

As a general rule, each top dressing should double the amount of starter culture. For example, if you have 200 g of sourdough, feed 100 g of flour + 100 g of water.
If you already have too much sourdough, pour out the excess and feed only to the right amount - calculate that there is enough for baking plus left for storage.

I made the leaven in less time. It was very warm in the kitchen, the sourdough was close to the stove, on which baking was constantly going on - I had a second 48-hour proofing in just 15 hours ...

The first bread is ready. I changed the recipe for simple bread from Lyudmila into whole flour, posted the description separately. Whole grain sourdough

The original recipe and video on the Breadtopia website

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Lydia

At the mere word "leaven" I freeze like a rabbit in front of a boa constrictor - that is, in horror. In my opinion, you need to wander around it all day ... Now you feed it, then put it there, then put it here ... In a word, all life revolves around this. But I want to try - after all, for myself, my beloved ... I am confused by two points: 1) and if the whole grain flour runs out (after all, it is not always possible to buy it immediately, especially since I live "in the far north" of M. o.), Is it possible , so as not to ruin the leaven, to feed it just with flour? Well, 1-2 times? 2) Can this leaven be used for other breads?

Alexandra

Lydia,

It was no coincidence that I chose the whole grain sourdough. It is the most capricious, it is easy to remove it and you do not need to pour out a bunch of unfinished sourdough with valuable flour, as in the French version. Only a small amount of flour and juice is needed. He lives in a refrigerator under the lid and asks to eat only once a week. And if it is necessary more often - it can and more often issue a product

Rye lived with me for a long time, then I put it in good hands - it became hard for the body, stopped asking for rye bread at all.

Well, and about the benefits of whole flour, especially for lowering sugar and losing weight, a lot has already been said here, you know.

You can feed the sourdough with any flour. Only after a few dressings will it turn into rye or white wheat, depending on what you feed. To return it to its original form, you will also need several dressings.

The same, if you want the number of white bread, translate by a few lumps of flour into white wheat. If rye - feed with rye flour. Better not all, but put aside in a separate jar and transfer it to the desired one in 3-4 days. You can have all three in parallel.
But nothing prevents white or rye bread, as well as sweet pastries, muffins, pancakes, waffles to make with whole grain sourdough. As if a little whole flour was added to them

Iraida

Alexandra
I have already studied many topics. I have rye sourdough. I would like to play with whole grain. Can you please tell me if I can convert my starter culture to whole grain? For this, as I understand it, I need to feed mine with whole grain flour with pineapple juice? Only now I can't decide on the proportions. If I take 3 tablespoons of my rye sourdough to start, then how much flour and juice for feeding? How to count for initial growth? Or take the general principle of feeding to increase the volume by 2 times?

Alexandra

Iraida

If you want to convert rye to whole grain, take a quarter cup (60g) and double the weight each time. Add whole flour and drinking water from a bottle in half, by weight.

1 day:
60 g rye sourdough + 30 g whole flour + 30 g water

2nd day:
120 g sourdough + 60 g whole flour + 60 g water

Day 3:
240 g sourdough + 120 g whole flour + 120 g water

Day 4: Whole grain sourdough is ready to eat. We take the required amount into the dough, weigh the remainder and feed. For 1 weight of leaven, half the weight of flour + half the weight of water. Put it in the refrigerator immediately.

A day or more before baking, we take it out of the refrigerator and feed it according to the same scheme 1-2 times a day until the required amount is obtained.
You don't need pineapple juice. It is only used to ferment whole flour from scratch. Pineapple juice contains enough acid for fermentation and there are substances. preventing the growth of harmful bacteria.

If you want a completely “correct” whole grain starter, start with flour and pineapple juice as described in the first post.

Good luck and write what happens

Iraida

Alexandra
Thank you! Thank you for your patience and such a detailed and detailed answer. Today I took out my rye from the refrigerator, fed and cheered me up. I hope tomorrow to receive an order with flour from "Belovodye" and I will also grow whole grain according to your "notes". As I bake bread, I will report back.

I also read your other topics with great pleasure. thank you for sharing your experience and your skills.

Alexandra

Iraida,

Good health

Iraida

Alexandra

Now I put in whole grain. I mixed according to your recommendations 30 g of flour and 30 g of water. It turned out to be a thick dough. I mix the rye sourdough in equal volumes. I get it like liquid sour cream. And the whole grain turned out to be a dough, a lump. It is right?

Alexandra

Iraida ,

When I refresh a ripe whole starter, I add equal weight of flour and water. It turns out a thick viscous mass, but not a dough that does not stick. Stirred with a fork in a jar.
Then it liquefies.

I think the original leaven should be semi-liquid. If it is thicker, you have dough. Try this. Feed it equally ...

Is it very difficult to make a sourdough according to all the rules from scratch ???
Above is the link to the video how it is all done ...

Iraida

Alexandra Thanks for the clarification. My top dressing was very thick, but not a dough that does not stick. Just before that, I mixed flour and water in equal parts of the volume - this is a more liquid consistency. So I clarified, suddenly I did something wrong.
You can, of course, grow with "0", but I fear for my crooked handles And with a starter starter, I will definitely succeed
I periodically transfer rye to wheat so that I can bake white bread. It seems to work

Alexandra

Iraida - very important!!! Not in equal volumes !!! EQUAL WEIGHT !!!

From this it may not be so ... it is necessary to weigh.
There is only 130 whole flour in a 240 g glass of water. By volume they are DIFFERENT !!!

Iraida

Alexandra For whole grain, I took everything strictly according to your instructions. You are a teacher in this matter.
They just taught me how to make rye and feed it accordingly, taking measures in volume. I am a beginner in leaven, so I always do everything according to the "orders of teachers."
And here for me an unusual consistency turned out, so I clarified it. thanks for your attention and concern.

Alexandra

Yes, Iraida, Eric on Bradtopia specifically warns that there should be a different amount of volume ...

In order to translate into your usual volumes, you can measure it once and then remember how much it is in volume.

I didn't measure the flour separately and the water separately, it's easier to put the jar on the scales, zero it and pour / pour it there.

But I measured the ready-to-eat sourdough - put the measuring cup on the scales, zeroed it and filled it to the edge with sourdough. Glass 240 ml, 250 ml to the brim. So, oddly enough, the ready-made sourdough, consisting in half by weight of flour and water, weighing 250 g, fills a measuring cup exactly to the brim.

That is, in recipes where the leaven is given in cups / glasses, I equate 1 glass to 240 (not full) g of leaven.

This is so for the future.

Iraida

Alexandra I wanted to bake bread tonight, but I'm afraid it won't work out. Can I put all the starter culture (there is already enough of it) in the refrigerator until tomorrow? Or is it better to feed and leave in the kitchen?

Alexandra

Iraida,

If you want to bake, you need to leave it in the kitchen and feed it, definitely

Zdenek

Made a sourdough according to your recipe. Used to make recipes
Lyudmila, but due to their employment, they died happily (both wheat and rye). I liked yours because it is easier to work with it in time and I have enough CPZ flour. I'll try on it
oven and wheat and gray breads. The process went well, the leaven turned out, and I put some of it in the refrigerator. and from the other fed
170 g starter culture 85 g water and 85 g wheat flour according to the recipe
to make 340g ready-to-bake sourdough. In 12 hours, it has grown by about a quarter of its volume. I have a question - how much
by volume should the leaven grow and in what time? In other words, how to tell if the starter is ready for use?
And another question - is it possible, if there are doubts about the strength of the leaven, to add a little yeast to the recipe?

Alexandra

Zdenek ,

Ripe starter culture should increase in volume by 3 times within 5-7 hours after feeding at room temperature.

My advice is to set aside a spoonful of sourdough (so as not to feed it wasted), pour out the rest.
Keep this spoon in a clean jar at room temperature and feed it 1-2 times a day, each time observing the rules (how much sourdough, the same weight and feeding, flour and water in the sourdough by weight equally). Pour out the excess each time so as not to produce a weak unripe sourdough.
Continue this until your starter culture triples in 5-7 hours. Then bring it to the required volume and bake.

Having studied everything. what they write about the leaven, nevertheless, I came to the conclusion that it is better to keep the leaven (ripe) between uses, not in the refrigerator, BUT IN A COOL PLACE AT 12-15 s. So not only wild yeast will survive, but also lactic acid bacteria that improve the taste and structure of the dough.

Sourdough can be combined with yeast, but not in order to strengthen a weak sourdough. Recipes that do not require long-term proofing are perfectly acceptable using both leaven and reduced yeast by a third or half. In recipes for long-term proofing, a small amount of sourdough is added to the dough or dough; during the proofing period, wild yeast in the dough multiplies and reaches the desired concentration - there is no need to add ready-made yeast there.

Until the starter is ready, you can just wait. And if you really want to - just add it to regular recipes, reducing the amount of water and flour by the weight of the leaven. Add yeast as usual and do not increase the proofing time.

Zdenek

Thanks for the quick response, according to your advice, I will do the rest
I will feed the original sourdough (a couple of spoons left),
and I will put the poorly ripe right now into a batch, add live yeast by weight of flour, maybe a little less. Thanks for the information!

Alexandra

Zdenek , for good health

If it's not difficult - describe and, if possible, photograph your bread.

Iraida

Alexandra baked the first loaf of this leaven. Thank you for the delicious bread .. I screwed up something, but I realized all my mistakes, next time I will take it into account.I don't like to cut bread, I like it when it cracks. And here I also cut a warm one ... they couldn't bear it, I wanted to try. It was the first time I worked with whole grain flour, but not the last one with \ Thank you!

Whole grain sourdough

Alexandra

Iraida

I am very glad that your efforts were not lost and you liked whole grain bread - one of the most healthy and no less tasty varieties of it! Seemingly very appetizing bread

Note you may still be interested in whole grain cereal bread. I baked bread from dispersed wheat and from cereal grains steamed with boiling water, and now I'm going to feed the sourdough with dispersed (soaked for 22 hours and ground with a part of water) whole wheat grain and make bread on dispersed whole grain sourdough
At the same time, I will also continue to grow the usual whole grain starter culture, for bread, bagels, pizza, dessert pastries ... there are also plans to experiment and combine it with other principles of dough preparation ... follow the development of the plot in the section on recipes and secrets of healthy eating

Iraida

Alexandra Oh, what an interesting perspective! Thank you for such interesting and unusual bread.
And bake a whole grain bagel or pizza?
And in secret, I am, "partisan"

Zdenek

I tried to knead the dough on a failed sourdough plus yeast by weight of flour (12 grams of fresh "Krivoy Rog"). For some reason, I decided to do it strictly according to the recipe - add salt after fermentation (usually I don't follow such subtleties). As a result, I had to leave on an urgent matter - the dough had almost crawled out of the bucket, quickly kneaded and for proofing. I decided to make a loaf of half of the dough, and another bun. I remembered about salt when it was time to put it in the oven. I was already reluctant to tinker, experiment, just
greased with water and sprinkled with salt on top. Loaf was baked in a roaster under the lid for 30 minutes, then 20-25 minutes on baking paper, buns
just in the form of about 20 minutes. In principle, it turned out to be edible bread,
due to the lack of salt in the dough, of course, the crumb of the loaf suffered,
the buns are almost invisible. Loaf before baking, probably
heavily waterlogged from the sprayer - the crust turned out to be a wave
and a little sagging. the dough was already very sticky. There will be science for the future.
From the remnants of the original leaven, he continued to create a new one
while the result is the same: yesterday from 11.30 to 20.00 it increased exactly 2 times,
for the night the same result, today in the morning I fed it - while everything is the same.
Moreover, a 2-fold growth occurs in the first 2 hours, and then it stands still. Let's see what happens tonight.

Alexandra

Zdenek ,

Seemingly very good loaf and buns. Please, re-name the photo in Latin, otherwise it will not increase.

Try putting the starter in a warmer place. Next to the stove when baking is in progress, or in a saucepan of 25C water

When baking in a closed form, the form must be preheated together with the oven, and the dough that is distant in another form must be placed there. At the same time, there is no need to spray - the steam itself will be released in a closed hot vessel due to the moisture of the dough. Only the dough in an open form is sprayed, and then it is not necessary - it is better to spray the bottom and walls of the oven before planting the bread and repeat several times in the first 15 minutes.

Alexandra

Quote: Iraida

Alexandra And bake a whole grain bagel or pizza?
And in secret, I am, "partisan"

In Secrets there are recipes for whole grain pizza with and without sourdough, and bagels with whole flour, but with yeast. Can be transferred to sourdough

Iraida

Alexandra I'm new to sourdough, so I always bake recipes. Could you tell me the algorithm for recalculation for sourdough? I’m trying to understand, but I’m not very good at figuring out how to correctly transfer it to the leaven?

Alexandra

Iraida,

If you bake with yeast, then just remember that in your starter, by weight, flour and water are halved. You can replace at most all the water in the recipe with the one in the leaven, and, accordingly, take away the same amount of flour by weight.

But it is best to take about no more than half of the flour in sourdough, add the second with ordinary dry flour.

And add about a third less yeast.

If the recipe for dough - instead of yeast, take from 60 to 120 g of sourdough and put the dough for several hours longer than usual. Or by the same amount, but add about a third, maximum half of the usual amount of flour to the main dough when kneading ...

Iraida

Alexandra, thanks! I will experiment!

Lulusha

So my bread on this sourdough came up

Very tasty. The whole family appreciated. Made in a bread maker. On the main mode in 4 hours.

Alexandra

Lulusha

Excellent result

What was the recipe for baking?

Lulusha

The recipe was by eye - leaven, flour, water, salt 1 hour. l., sugar - 1 hour. l. , gluten 1 tsp, vegetable oil 2 tbsp. l. All this in a bucket and in the process of kneading has already adjusted the flour. Almost guessed - added 2 tbsp. l. that's all. I went and checked whether she would have time to get up or not. Managed.

Alexandra

HOW TO DRY AND STORE SQUARE
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HOW TO REANIMATE DRY SQUARE

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This video is from Breadtopia.
If someone seriously forget, I will translate, and so on the video, everything is mostly clear

Anise

Alexandra, I have a question about storage, but if there is +4 everywhere in the refrigerator, is it too destructive for the finished starter culture? It would be convenient to store it in the refrigerator, feed it once a week, or before baking, but I worry that something wrong may grow from this temperature. What do you think about this?

Alexandra

Anise,

It is believed that it is too cold for the leaven. Except dried, of course. Eric - you can see it in the video - keeps it in the refrigerator, but who knows what his temperature is there.
It should be 10C, and we have only + 4C.
That's why I gave up. In the cold, beneficial lactic acid bacteria die and only wild yeast remain, over time the sourdough will taste coarse and the bread will have a dense crust.
It is necessary either to keep it in a cool place not in the refrigerator, to feed and bake every day, but to ruthlessly throw out the excess, or add salt and make a thick one - this will stand for several days without feeding.
Or keep it in the refrigerator and in the room alternately so that it does not degenerate.
But it is best to somehow provide +10

Anise

Alexandra,
thank you very much for the detailed answer. Yes-ah-ah, where to look for these 10 degrees? (I thought about it) To feed the sourdough every day, of course, obliges. As I understand it, storage temperature is important for all starter cultures, not just whole grains. To have leaven or not to have - that is the question.
I watched the video from the site, but Eric didn't seem to say anything about the storage temperature (or listened?), I realized that it was necessary to store the finished one in the refrigerator. Although, if he has this business, then his refrigerator will be adjusted to the temperature required for the starter cultures. I'll go read what he says under the video.

Anise

Alexandra,

I am again to you with questions. Allow me?

Today I have stage 3 of the preparation of the "starter". During stages 1 and 2, I stirred it 3-4 times a day. And in the 3rd stage it is written to add flour, water, stir and leave for 24 hours. So, you don't need to touch him for 24 hours, do I understand correctly? I decided to clarify this point. After the 3rd mixing of flour and water, the leaven increased by about 2 times, then the opal rose again. Let her deal with herself for 24 hours? Do not disturb her?

I’ll ask you about stage 4 right away. I will add flour and water 24 hours after stage 3. If I heard what Eric was saying correctly, after 2 or a few hours the starter can be used. Or earlier?

And I also have one question. Here I will select a ready-made starter for baking, let's say 100 grams will remain (this is me for an example). For the remainder, I must add 50 g of flour and 50 g of water. Right?

Should the starter be dissolved in water for baking bread, or can it be simply added to water?
For starters, I plan to bake in a bread maker some bread that I have already tried before, I will reduce the amount of yeast by half. Is this option possible? Do you think the sourdough will have time to start working or is it necessary to bake bread with a long proofing?

Alexandra

Anis, to be honest, time has passed - I'm afraid to confuse. I described everything in detail in this topic, how I did it. Please look at 1 page.
I remember that it was warm in the kitchen and I went through stages 3 and 4 much faster.

Ripe starter culture increases 3 times in 5 hours. You can also unripe, add half a serving of yeast

Anyway, you can dilute in water, but you can pour it like that.

True, you need to feed by adding as much by weight as there is sourdough. It was 100 - add water and flour 50 each.

Sourdough always lifts bread longer than yeast.
New York with yeast is enough for 12 hours, and for sourdough 18.

Anise

Alexandra,
I read everything, I think I figured it out.
I want to tell you thank you very much for responsiveness! I know that you are very busy, but always find time to respond! Thank you for support!

Alexandra

Anise, good health

Anise

Dear bakers!
Does anyone else use a whole grain starter?
Are there any favorite recipes for her?
What difficulties did you encounter, if any?
Get out of the bushes! Let's "be friends with leavens"!

Alexandra

Anise

Alexandra,
You are just wonderful! Thank you thank you thank you!
Today I just fell into a stupor, deciding what to bake and how.
To begin with, I put a New York one without mixing, completely on sourdough.
I do it all the time now, but by leaps and bounds, it will be easy to compare the taste.
And then I will think. I have no experience, I am looking at the photos of sourdoughs on the website and on Bredtopia,
I'm trying to understand whether I have a starter or not. Or is it necessary to treat this more simply?
I'm going to study your links.
This is for you !

quince

Quote: Alexandra

Stage 1
3 1/2 tbsp. l. whole grain flour (took Belovodye wheat wallpaper of coarse grinding) and
1/4 cup sugar-free pineapple juice (I took Rich 100% pineapple juice)

Hello, I want to make such a leaven. I had never done anything like that before, only yeast, but I decided to start sourdough. And there were three questions:
1) how much flour and juice should be put in GRAM in the first stage? because spoons and glasses are different for everyone
2) can I use wheat flour, or is only whole grain suitable?
3) how much starter culture will be obtained after all 4 stages, will a liter jar be enough? otherwise there is a big shortage of space in the refrigerator
These are the questions I have

Alexandra

quince ,

I used the original recipe from Eric from the website 🔗without altering or recounting anything. The measuring spoons from cotton are the same for everyone, I have a glass of 240 ml. Everything worked out. Now I have not been doing sourdough for a long time - I bake too rarely, it's a pity to throw it away while it has dried. Therefore, I cannot measure for you in grams. I repeat once again, everything worked out with measuring spoons and a glass of 240.

Whole wheat wallpaper is whole grain flour

As far as I remember, a liter can should be enough. To be sure, you can watch a video of the cooking process how Eric does it, I give links on 1 page of Temka

Good luck in growing this, in my experience, the most unpretentious and unpretentious sourdough. It's hot now, the cooking stages may be shortened in time, focus on vir and volume (video)

quince

I read and read the forum, various topics on sourdough, ocean information, but what exactly to do is not clear to me. So, My actions: The second stage of the whole grain sourdough began 20 hours earlier, because my sourdough bubbled a lot (and in the video it was completely unchanged after the first stage). The third stage also started earlier by 16 hours, because the smell of alcohol was so strong that tears flowed from the eyes and the nose hurt when they sniffed the leaven (and in the video after the second stage there were only a couple of bubbles on it, not at all like mine). Its color is the same as from the very beginning. Bubbles strongly, but does not grow at all! If not touched, a few millimeters of liquid are cut off from above. Well, a very strong spirit of alcohol-yeast. The texture is like flour with water, no elasticity at all - very, very liquid! My problem: WHAT TO DO NEXT? Feed her, put her in the refrigerator, stove on her - or what ?? What is this stage, what should be next, and how can I be with it now? I'm completely confused, help me please!

Alexandra

It seems that it has stopped anyway, it would be necessary to feed it. Have you counted the amount of water and flour? It is convenient to have 100% sourdough, that is, in equal parts by weight of water and flour.
"Stage 4

Add:

1/2 cup whole flour
1/4 - 1/3 cup purified drinking water "

Try to feed and leave for a while - as soon as the hat rises and starts to fall - you can immediately try to bake
For starters, you can add a little yeast. You can bake without yeast if it grows three times in a few hours

quince

yeah, that means that her condition, which I had, is called "starving leaven!" I'll know. I poured 140 grams of flour and the same grams of water into her, it became thick, and now it seems to be growing ... as I understand it, you can already go and study recipes for sourdough bread ...

gannusia

Thanks for the recipe! I no longer believed that I would get the leaven. And here's a miracle - it turned out !!!!

Alexandra

Good health

Lydia

I finally also made a whole grain sourdough (from flour FOR) - last night, according to the instructions at the beginning of the topic, I added flour and water last night. I put it on the window near the frame itself, although I didn't measure the temperature there because of the usual haste. And after 3-4 hours, I added 100 g of young sourdough to rye-wheat bread, reducing the amount of yeast. The bread tasted good (according to my husband, I didn’t try it myself), but the “roof” of the loaf fell a little - it has not happened for a long time. Like I read the whole topic, but I don't understand what to do with the leaven now. Probably, in the evening I will put 100 g in another jar and feed it, and what remains, I will try to use in bread - right? Well, a hand does not rise to pour out its excess!

It seemed to me that the most difficult thing was to prepare the leaven, but it seems that the work itself is only now beginning: to grow the leaven and bake bread without yeast. Something I feel like a savage in front of a gramophone. Terrible! But horror how interesting.