Whole grain sourdough

Lydia 100 gr. I add sourdoughs 100 gr. flour and 100 ml of water, I am very pleased with the leaven.

[tanya1962]

Lydia 100 gr. I add sourdoughs 100 gr. flour and 100 ml of water, I am very pleased with the leaven.

tanya1962I understood how to feed the leaven that needs to ripen. But what to do with the one that I want to shove into bread (any), so as not to pour it out, I don't know. Let, probably, stand at the window like this, I bake often, so everything will go into business. By the way, it seemed to me that for 100 g of sourdough, top dressing should also be 100 g (50 g each of flour and water)?

I feed Lydia this way, because 100 + 50 + 50 is not enough for me, the family is big, I need a lot of bread.

Yeah, got it, thanks.

Good day. Tell me, please, I would like to grow this sourdough, I prepared everything I needed and then I started thinking, can I use cranberry-lingonberry juice (homemade) instead of pineapple juice?

[Lidushka]

Lidushka ,

I haven't tried it, I can't say anything. I translated an American source, where he explained why pineapple. You can dig in the site 🔗 and look for why. And compare the properties of pineapple and cranberries with lingonberries.

Or just try

[The choice of pineapple juice over other juices is from much trial and error]

Here, I found it on Eric's Breadtopia website:

Debra Wink, a chemist and accomplished baker, is the mastermind and author of this Pineapple Juice Technique. A lot of research and testing went into developing and refining the technique

The choice of pineapple juice over other juices is from much trial and error

Debra Wink, chemist and eminent baker, is the creator and author of the pineapple juice sourdough technique. This technique required a lot of research and experimentation.
Choosing from all other pineapple juices came through a lot of trial and error

So we will try our ... so to speak "Siberian"

Good luck! Share the results later

Well, I started my experiment:
3 1/2 tbsp. l. whole grain flour (I have "Garnets" wheat wallpaper of coarse grinding) and
1/4 cup lingonberry-cranberry juice (she suppressed the fresh berries herself, though she poured a little sugar)

Stirred, put the jar in the kitchen.
I love her so much, maybe she will reciprocate me ...
Stirred 4 times a day, sometimes 3-4 bubbles appeared, the smell is pleasant.

Added:
2 tbsp. l. whole flour
2 tbsp. l. cranberry juice (cranberry-lingonberry is over) Stirred and left in room temperature for 24 hours.

Added:
5 1/4 Art. l. whole flour
3 tbsp. l. drinking purified water. It took 2 hours and she doubled in 2 times, a lot of bubbles and a pleasant sour smell ...

So it turned out "Siberian Whole Grain" !!!! Thank you very much Alexander!

We are waiting for the first "Siberian" sourdough bread!

Well, I started my experiment:
........
So it turned out "Siberian Whole Grain" !!!! Thank you very much Alexander!

I follow with interest the continuation of the topic
Lidushka is just great! A true baker is not afraid of experiments

I, too, like Alexandra, am looking forward to the Siberian sourdough bread!

Girls, I have a sourdough well done
Lives in my kitchen, I feed her once a day (sometimes in two days) for 3-4 hours it doubles. I feed in a glass jar and you can see how the leaven becomes tender and so full of holes! I baked only pancakes on it so far (I can't insert a link and a photo, since I go online from my phone so far). The result of the pancakes is very pleasing - fluffy, airy, melting in your mouth! No hint of sourness. I put the dough overnight, and baked it in the morning.
Now I want to ask, I’m reading the bread recipes, but I can’t figure out until the end, when should I put the leaven? Should she be fed or hungry?
I'm still not comfortable with my phone ... and there are two children (2.5 years and 5 months), mother is a heroine, damn it!
And today I baked "Festive" from Misha. It turned out very cool, despite the fact that I made a different form and put a little less leaven.

[Lidushka]

Lidushka, the leaven should be put at the peak of its activity, immediately after you realize that it has stopped growing and going to fall off.I put the starter culture on the liquid under the flour, and put sugar between it and the flour. When I lay out all the components, I let them stand for an hour without a program, and then I start hp.

Alexandra, and if there is sugar according to the recipe (and even more so if I bake a cake), how then to be? and I generally put sourdough in all yeast products, and not only bread, but also pancakes, and pancakes, and waffles, etc., and in many there is at least 1 tbsp of sugar. l.

Alexandra, how do you bake cake then, if without sugar - with honey? and never put sugar in bread at all ??

"Only then it is not clear why bother with whole grain sourdough."
ummm didn’t understand something is it possible to use the leaven for those who are losing weight and diabetics? I really like the taste of sourdough bread, but I never thought that sugar is harmful even in the amount of 1 tbsp. l. on a loaf

Hello! Please tell me how to save the leaven? She smelled strongly of vinegar - it hits right in the nose. I have it grain. Has been living for a month. I have fed her several times already. And the last time I fed it on Thursday - rye flour, brought the hard dough to a bush, baked bread on it and put it in the refrigerator. And today I get it - and I'm terrified! My leaven is gone, right?

the last time I fed it on Thursday - rye flour, brought the hard dough to a thick, baked bread on it and put it in the refrigerator. And today I get it - and I'm terrified! My leaven is gone, right?

Lost? Is not a fact. Rather, she got sick. The diagnosis is peroxidation. Five days in the refrigerator for the thick leaven is too much. Try feeding a tablespoon of sourdough with an equal amount of flour and water (50 grams can be used, 100 can be used) every 8 hours at room temperature two to three times, leaving 1 tbsp each time. spoon. Should be on the mend. Yes, it is advisable to start sniffing it after 2 feedings. The smell of vinegar can be replaced by the smell of rotten grass, this will pass. Good luck to you!

P.S. Liquid would last a week in the refrigerator.

Thank you so much! I did everything as you said. Fed up. And now I look - there are big bubbles, but it still smells like vinegar. So I have to keep my leaven in the room? Maybe you need to put on the battery? Should we close the lid or not?

So I have to keep my leaven in the room? Maybe you need to put on the battery? Should we close the lid or not?

Room temperature is enough for her now. I do not consider the battery useful - we will not cover it, it means that the liquid will evaporate and the crust will dry on top, which will not do her good, but we will cover it, so we will steam it right in the jar.
Perhaps, at room temperature, and covering it with a linen or other cotton napkin, it is quite possible to revive it. The main thing is not to allow peroxide. Doubled, take 1 - 2 spoons and feed, the rest. As soon as it returns to normal, it will be possible to store it in the cold, BUT in liquid form.

I keep the starter in an enamel saucepan. And yesterday I separated a part from the leaven - and mixed it with some water in a cup - and bubbles immediately appeared. I want to make an experiment: where the leaven will be better. I can't do it in the bank - it's inconvenient, there are no pens.

I want to make an experiment: where the leaven will be better.

Now that's interesting. I hope you can share the results. I have it in a glass jar, then in a plastic container, I did not notice the difference.

Please tell me whether it plays a big role for bread, which sunflower oil to use: refined or unrefined?

[Large]

Please tell me whether it plays a big role for bread, which sunflower oil to use: refined or unrefined?

Large does not matter, the percentage of oil in the dough is small, but it is slightly reflected in the taste. Anyone can be used.

Thank you! I'll try the scented oil oven.

[Alexandra]

Alexandra and other members of the forum, in this thread there are links to recipes for bread with whole grain sourdough, but they all involve baking in the oven.Is it even possible to bake such bread in KhP (my experience is 2 breads according to the recipe book and I know KhP for only a couple of days). My KhB allows me to form my own programs, so I plan to bake Zleb with sourdough in it. Do you have any recipes for HP? Thank you in advance!

Dear Nastasiya! Experience in a baker is not great, but I understood one thing, the main thing is the bun and the rise of the dough. I make programs myself. I follow the formation of the kolobok, I give about 2 hours to rise (+ -) I make sure that the dough rises 2 - 2.5 times (if more - the roof falls, less - not "fluffy"). I bake with sourdough (a semi-finished product from Viki), but add a little yeast (1-2 g dry). after the first two breads, I no longer stand by the stove, the bun has formed a buy-by. In the morning, the sandwich is ready.

[Nastasiya]

Nastasiya I baked bread in the HP on ripe dough (practically the same leaven), the taste is the same, but the porosity and structure are completely different than in the oven, I doubled the proofing, turning off the HP, such a mass rose slowly, in the form when baking in the oven it rises faster ... CH is heavy, infection I will not bake it more in HP, in the oven it turns out faster

ShuMakher, Anatoly57, thanks for your answers! Can I have one more question? Do you bake sourdough bread with 100% whole grain flour or with white flour? If white flour is added, what percentage of CG flour is ideal for a delicious and beautiful result?

I take whole grain only to add to the sourdough for making dough, and then add ordinary white wheat flour. Now I'm experimenting with the addition of wheat malt (1 tablespoon for a sample). Yesterday "the first pancake turned out to be lumpy."

[Nastasiya]

Nastasiya I take either 50% or 25% CZ, from 100% bread is obtained of a peculiar taste, and such additives are the best ... Moreover, I add CZ to both rye bread and white bread, it's very tasty, I already can't imagine white bread without it, I recall USSR-ovskoe time, when this gray bread was in bakeries

[Iraida]

Iraida
If you want to convert rye to whole grain, take a quarter cup (60g) and double the weight each time. Add whole flour and drinking water from a bottle in half, by weight.
1 day:
60 g rye sourdough + 30 g whole flour + 30 g water
2nd day:
120 g sourdough + 60 g whole flour + 60 g water
Day 3:
240 g sourdough + 120 g whole flour + 120 g water
Day 4: Whole grain sourdough is ready to eat. We take the required amount into the dough, weigh the remainder and feed. For 1 weight of leaven, half the weight of flour + half the weight of water. Put it in the refrigerator immediately.

Alexandra please tell me, and during these dressings within 3 days, should the starter be put into the refrigerator or should it stand warm?

Must stand at room temperature, otherwise how will it grow

Must stand at room temperature, otherwise how will it grow

Thank you

Alexandra, thanks for your sourdough recipe, I'm planning to try baking bread tonight. I don’t use yeast because I’ve heard that sourdough is better than yeast for a healthy diet. But does the use of this leaven in bread provide any health benefits? Maybe vitamins, trace elements? For example, hop or malt starter contains a lot of useful new things, but this one?

[Anaska]

Anaska, undoubtedly, a sourdough made from whole flour is healthier than a sourdough made from white flour, since all vitamins and trace elements and useful fiber remain in whole flour, while in white flour there are mostly unnecessary carbohydrates.
Compared to rye sourdough, both of them, in my opinion, are equally useful. But for me personally, for dietary purposes, whole grain is more suitable - and I bake bread with whole grain, and not rye, simply because rye flour is hard for my stomach and my pancreas.
But as a diabetic, I would not use grape sourdough, despite the beneficial properties of grapes - there are too many sugars for me and grapes are not shown. It's the same with white flour leaven.

Alexandra, thanks for the quick answer, I don't use white flour at all. Now I'm trying very hard to learn how to bake something tasty from such flour so that it outweighs the color of the crumb, otherwise my husband says that he doesn't like that the bread is not white. But I have not yet found a single recipe for bread for HP without yeast and white flour, but with sourdough. Would you advise, by any chance?

Accidentally I advise you to look in my profile, there are quite a lot of recipes translated into a new form based on sourdough with whole grain and even rye flour)))
And of course you have to look at Admin, at Zest, Chuchelka.

Thank you, I'll go look.

otherwise the husband says that he does not like that the bread is not white. But I have not yet found a single recipe for bread for HP without yeast and white flour, but with sourdough. Would you advise, by any chance?

Whole wheat bread will never be white !!! This is the natural color of flour, which is made from all wheat grain, including its shell.

There are enough recipes for whole flour bread on the forum!
The recipes are suitable for both the oven and the oven - no need to be afraid to bake!
The authors of the recipes describe in detail their technology for making bread.

You can safely take a recipe for bread made from wheat flour and part of the flour or completely replace it with whole grain - everything will work out!
Only it is imperative to observe the flour / liquid balance for whole grain flour, however, as well as for other bread, other flour

Thanks, Admin, that's what I explained to him. Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely try it today!

Iraida,

But it is best to take about no more than half of the flour in sourdough, add the second with ordinary dry flour.

Alexandra, for those who are on the armored train, please explain how to determine how much flour is in the sourdough in order to understand how much to add? For example, the recipe says 500 grams of flour, which means I have to take 250 grams of sourdough (is this one measuring glass?), And add 250 grams? Is there a little liquid in the sourdough, it also needs to be subtracted from the liquid in the recipe? It seems like you wrote what to count in the leaven 50 to 50 liquid and flour if you bake with yeast ...
Sorry, I seem to have read your post many times, but still got confused.

[Anaska]

Anaska, sorry, it's too late, I don't think well and if you noticed, for a long time due to lack of time I have not baked with sourdough.

You take some yeast recipe and make it sourdough? Isn't it easier to start with a recipe that was originally written with sourdough?

But if you really, really want to redo, then this:
All the time you put the same amount of flour and liquid in the leaven BY WEIGHT
Then you will always know: in 100 g of sourdough you have 50 g of flour and 50 g of water
Then, in a recipe without sourdough, you change a part (not the whole amount!), Subtracting both flour and water from the recipe.

Something like this. If it's still not clear - knock on the starter club, they will help, otherwise my skill is lost

[Alexandra]

If it's still not clear - knock on the starter club, they will help, otherwise my skill is lost

Alexandra, with your permission, I can right here:

If you want to redo the recipe yourself and you have 500 gr. flour, and in the sourdough flour and water are the same by weight, then you need to determine how much flour you want to add to the sourdough itself. Usually it is a third or a half. For example, without ceremony, I send half. And it will be more convenient to count and the dough fermentation time is reduced.
For example: 500 gr. starter culture is 250 gr. flour and 250 gr. water. All you need is to add another 250 grams. flour and subtract 250 gr. water.

You take some yeast recipe and make it sourdough? Isn't it easier to start with a recipe that was originally written with sourdough?

It's definitely simpler, but I haven't come across such a recipe yet. And over time it is difficult, because the baby is a baby, you constantly have to be distracted, there is no way to view a lot of information.
And the question arose, because in the sourdough recipe flour and liquid are added first Art. l, and then in glasses, and not in portions of equal weight.Accordingly, it is not clear whether it can be considered that after the 4th stage in the finished ferment liquid and flour in equal parts by weight.
Thank you very much!

Viki, and thank you very much for your advice! It has become clearer, now the task is to buy scales in order to understand how much leaven was obtained. ... While I put everything on the eye, I really wanted to eat cottage cheese baking in the morning. I took the recipe from the recipe book for HP. Hope you get lucky! So far, baking is aerobatics for me!

Alexandra, the first experience of baking with sourdough was quite a success. Lucky! Today I want to try again. But there is no scale to understand how much sourdough is in the jar in order to properly feed? I have a 750 g can, with a little more than half of the sourdough in it. How much can it be by weight?

[Anaska]

Anaska ,

I'm right, it's embarrassing to refuse you help, but I have to remind you again: I dried my leaven two years ago and since then it has been kept in my refrigerator in this form.
That is, two years ago I stopped working with leaven

Either you need to ask for help from the fermentors once again, or you yourself have to do the mathematical calculations:

A 240 ml measuring cup contains 130 g of whole grain flour (tested in practice and this information is available on the website)
The same 240 ml glass contains 240 g of water (as we know, 1 g of water = 1 ml of water)
The sourdough contains half flour, half water
This means that in 240 ml we have 65 g (130: 2 = 65) flour and 120 g water (240: 2 = 120)
You have 750 ml of starter culture. That's 3.125 cups of 240 ml each (750: 240 = 3.125)
This means that you have in these 750 ml of starter culture:
65x3.125 = 203.125g whole grain flour, round up to 200g = 200 g flour120x3.125 =375 g water

Here is the answer to your question.

750 g of whole grain sourdough (where flour and water are equal in volume) contains 200 g of whole grain flour and 375 g of water.
Half of such a jar contains 100 g of flour and 188 g of water
But to be honest, you could have counted it without me ...

Awkward, but no longer ready to answer questions.
I lost my skill in 2 years and there is no free time to re-explore everything and even more to do calculations, this is not my strong point
Thank you for understanding.

Alexandra, thank you very much. Excuse me, please, I probably misunderstood the meaning of this page and your prompt answers to questions. I contacted you because you posted this recipe, other fermentors have other recipes. Thanks for your time.

I'm still at work, from 7.30 am to ...
Therefore, not to leaven
Thank you for understanding!