Cooking utensils (pots, pans, lids)

Girls (and boys), I read everything, I read this discussion. And I still don't understand what the question is.

If non-stick properties are needed, then these are pans with coating (ptfe or ceramic) or without coating, but in this case the coating is created by an oil film.

If sustainability is needed, then all pans do not meet these requirements. Well, those with coatings, everything is clear here. Those that are aluminum, "flavored" food with aluminum. Nickel is emitted from stainless steel. In general, all the materials that are used today for the production of frying pans, something, and even emitted into the food prepared in them. Is that cast iron?

And the manufacturer? Yes, they are all produced by and large at 2-3 factories in China.

The issue of information wars being waged has been repeatedly discussed, and everyone interested will say that one is better than the other. Is it new or old ...

And if a person is responsible, will he risk asserting that one manufacturer or one of the types of pans is the best in all respects: both non-stick and harmless ...

How true, Mr. Catlery noted, the very method of cooking in pans is not the healthiest for our body ...

Yes, and we all cook in multicooker, which in the overwhelming majority have ptfe bowl coating ... and the coating of baker's buckets is also ptfe ...

If you need environmental friendliness, then these are definitely not pans, but, say, earthenware ... But this is a different way of cooking.

I am exceeding many words

Girls (and boys), I read everything, I read this discussion. And I still don't understand what the question is.

If non-stick properties are needed, then these are pans with coating (ptfe or ceramic) or without coating, but in this case the coating is created by an oil film.

If sustainability is needed, then all pans do not meet these requirements. Well, those with coatings, everything is clear here. Those that are aluminum, "flavored" food with aluminum. Nickel is emitted from stainless steel. In general, all the materials that are used today for the production of frying pans, something, and even emitted into the food prepared in them. Is that cast iron?

And the manufacturer? Yes, they are all produced by and large at 2-3 factories in China.

The issue of information wars being waged has already been discussed many times, and everyone interested will say that one is better than the other. Is it new or old ...

And if a person is responsible, will he risk asserting that one manufacturer or one of the types of pans is the best in all respects: both non-stick and harmless ...

How true, Mr. Catlery noted, the very method of cooking in pans is not the healthiest for our body ...

Yes, and we all cook in multicooker, which in the overwhelming majority have ptfe bowl coating ... and the coating of baker's buckets is also ptfe ...

If you need environmental friendliness, then these are definitely not pans, but, say, earthenware ... But this is a different way of cooking.

I am exceeding many words

Oops - false information! We'll have to start all over again. And so on the materials used for the manufacture of pans and their safety: Please note that not a single case has been reliably RECORDED when aluminum dishes (uncoated) would lead to death or some kind of chronic disease. NOT A single case has been reliably recorded when the use of PTFE coated cookware would lead to similar consequences. NO negative impact on human health of siloxane coatings (ceramic) has been identified at the moment. About stainless steel, which supposedly gives off nickel - this is outright speculation. In SaNPiNe MPCs are clearly indicated for each chemical. an element that is part of stainless steel, including nickel, which in steel is much less than chromium and iron ... If we consider that nickel, like other elements, are in solid solution, I can responsibly say that " the story "about nickel is a consequence of the same" black "PR. This story is 2008. when the nickel price on the LME exceeded 50 USD per kg. and 304 grade stainless steel has become too expensive. Despite the fact that nickel-free steels are less processed, it has become economically feasible (cheaper) to make dishes from them. Well, how to explain to the consumer that the magnet suddenly began to stick to the pan? Here is some very competent "manager" and came up with this tyulka about the "allergenicity" of nickel. Antares Trade did the same, it was necessary to put raw, unfinished "ceramic" technology into the market, but what is the easiest way to bring down a competitor? It's very simple - you have to! I’ll tell Lena Malysheva’s mouth that Teflon is a terrible muck. Our people are absolutely sane, they are glad to be deceived themselves. Therefore, the author of the post is right NO ONE responsible and versed in this topic person will not show you the "ideal" brand of dishes - because it simply does not exist. Humanity is constantly balancing on the brink of its own incompetence, which, moreover, is still muddied by trade and information wars. various kinds of promotions and marketing "moves". The modern tableware business is a murky whirlpool of economic interests of importers, manufacturers, etc., in which the health and economic interests of consumers are far from being in the first place. This is what we all, as consumers, were led, for example, to "ceramics" and created this very demand, which is now satisfied by all and sundry (see article 🔗 ) And the shops they take what is in this very demand. Antares Trade has achieved its goals, now let's see what the FAS has to say about all this. read here ( 🔗 ) I disagree with the author of the post about cast iron and pottery. Cast iron in itself is no better than the same aluminum without coating, because it is not corrosion-resistant and carbon deposits, which protect the pan from rust and provide some non-stick properties, is a concern. But nobody died from him. Here, as in everything, a measure is needed, do not abuse the hot. as a cooking method, it is quick, but not very high quality in terms of food hygiene. Some people generally better switch to stewing and steaming. Pottery is not perfect from a hygiene point of view. because it has a porous structure, and various decals and enamels can contain all sorts of crap like cadmium. Ceramic dishes are fragile and short-lived and are problematic to use on modern types of stoves. Ceramics are not at all friendly with induction. Multicooker is a very useful accessory, but again, not a panacea and not an absolutely universal device for cooking.

Yeah - and go to the wilderness in the forest for pasture, because there is more harm from the environment and food than from those dishes ...

These ptfe - they seem to be not harmful up to 120 C, just try not to eat eat fried.

PTFE coatings are harmless up to the temperature of charring (in general, it is better if the temperature of use does not exceed + 250C - this is the temperature of the oven), as well as all other coatings, because any products of charring and combustion will not be useful to your body. If you burned a coated frying pan, then don't even try to clean it - feel free to send it to the trash. And about eating less and fried in particular - the truth is, I support!

[mr.Catlery]

Well, no, mr.Catlery!!! I didn’t pull you by the tongue when you promised to frighten us with this miracle! Now, COLOR! "...first of all, in a professional dish ... "Schaaas! I'll wait for this from you later" after a while "! I want this frying pan !!!

For you personally - even tomorrow, but we are not ready for mass production on an industrial scale yet. Prototypes have been in operation for several months, I look at what happens to them, I ask those who use them how they behave when preparing different dishes. I need to write a competent instruction for the consumer. In addition, there are thoughts to try other methods and tools for creating a microrelief, this must be done, tested, etc. this effect is obtained by checking how such a surface works in the oven. But in order to offer this technology to the market, it is necessary to develop an industrial version of the technology, create equipment, and prepare production. In parallel, it is necessary to conduct thorough research of the samples, and this is both time and not small costs. And what I'm talking about professional cookware in the first place should also be clear. Professional cookware has the most intensive use and if this technology takes root in professional cookware. then it will reach the household sphere automatically. In the meantime, I can only demonstrate the capabilities of this technology (Rondell managers who participated in the spring HouseHold exhibition had the opportunity to taste pancakes from a new frying pan right at the exhibition stand). I did this deliberately so that they felt with their stomachs that we can do something else, and innovations may not be made in China. And then their managers excitedly talk about "advanced" Chinese technologies, almost deifying manufacturers from this country. Do not think that we are more foolish than others and are only capable of selling made in China, passing it off as "real German quality". The developed Chinese production of consumer goods, including tableware, is based primarily on a surplus of labor resources and semi-manual technology, with which Europeans and other Asians cannot yet compete. But this is not forever and it is not yet known what the situation will be in the near future ...

... Here, as in everything, a measure is needed, do not abuse the hot. as a cooking method, it is fast, but not very high quality in terms of food hygiene. Some people generally better switch to stewing and steaming ...

Well, there is also a flip side to the coin: when cooking, you cannot reach such processing temperatures as when frying, and, essno, you cannot kill those living creatures that survive at more than 100 times. In this regard, the old Uzbeks have a good rule: what grows under the ground (carrots, onions, etc.) must be roasted, and what is on top can be simply boiled ...

Well, there is also a downside to the coin: when cooking, you cannot reach such processing temperatures as when frying, and, essno, you cannot kill those living creatures that survive at more than 100 in agriculture. In this regard, the old Uzbeks have a good rule: what grows under the ground (carrots, onions, etc.) must be roasted, and what is on top can be simply boiled ...

It depends on what to cook in. If in a pressure cooker, then the temperature there can be between +130 and 140C. The Chinese, for example, allow all the greens in the wok - fresh vegetable in their understanding is lightly fried greens.

[in air to temperatures above 800 °]

Girls (and boys), I read everything, I read this discussion. And I still don't understand what the question is.

If sustainability is needed, then all pans do not meet these requirements. Well, those with coatings, everything is clear here. Those that are aluminum, "flavored" food with aluminum. Nickel is emitted from stainless steel. In general, all the materials that are used today for the production of frying pans, something, and even emitted into the food prepared in them. Is that cast iron?

Suppose they do not "flavor".The oxide film prevents the penetration of pure aluminum into food. Nonsense about the dangers of aluminum has been refuted a thousand times. Google it. Now about nickel This horror story went from dentists. Again, google it - you will come off in full! Wait, I’ll give you some excerpts that you can easily find in a rub. And so: Two points of view.
First:
NHS is a nickel-chromium alloy (si speech is a stainless steel).
“NHS is the cheapest alloy in terms of cost, but it has a number of disadvantages:
- toxic metal
Nickel compounds are classified as carcinogenic group 1, that is, they cause cancer. "
(do not cross - this is nonsense. Further there will be a refutation)
"Metal incompatible with the human body (according to research by Swiss scientists)."

Where without the Swiss scientists.

“- a powerful allergen (in the oral cavity, it enters into a combination with oxygen and forms a toxic compound - nickel oxide, which is a powerful allergen).” Nooo, I’ll explain right away.
“... Only when heating in air to temperatures above 800 °C, metallic nickel begins to react with OXYGEN to form oxide NiO. " This means, cover the mitten and heat up to 800 gr.

"Nickel and its compounds affect genes, causing changes in DNA and RNA."

You can read the rest of the passions (who have strong nerves) here:

🔗

ATTENTION! It was a DENTAL site.

And this is a different point of view.

Let's listen to the head of the department of hospital orthopedic STOMATOLOGY of MGMSU, doctor of medical sciences, professor I. Yu. Lebedenko

But just a little. Who cares, read the link: www. (which, an infection, stopped opening after a year. But you can google it)

This is for a starter: “… A huge number of complaints go to stainless steel cookware. Stainless steel is an iron-carbon alloy containing nickel and chromium. Everyone uses dishes, therefore there are more allergic reactions to it than, say, to gold. Although there is an allergy to gold products ... "
We continue to listen to the head of the department ...

“… - At the moment when I was writing my Ph.D. thesis on nickel-chromium alloys, a translated work came out, which said that nickel causes cancer. This "discovery" should have crossed out all my scientific work. Then I found the original source, it was called: "Does nickel cause cancer?" That's right, with a question mark. It said that there is not a single documented case when nickel alloys used for dentures would cause a rebirth in someone. And here pure nickel when implanted into connective tissue, it caused sarcoma in experimental animals. I personally have conducted experiments on rats for over a year. One was implanted in the thigh muscle with various samples of dental alloys with a high nickel content, while others were implanted with pure nickel implants. In 100% of cases where there was pure nickel, sarcoma occurred. And in 100% of cases, where there were nickel alloys, I did not find any harmful reaction, which would be different from the reaction to the implantation of known nickel-free alloys ... "
Needless to say, nickel in stainless steel is part of the alloy.
And a little more about stainless steel dishes:
“… Some firms assure the gullible consumer that their 18/10 ware is made of special,“ medical ”steel for surgical instruments and cuvettes for storing organs. Earning good dividends on this myth, selling dishes 10-20 times more expensive. In fact, there is no "medical" steel, just as there is no "iron" cast iron and the globe of Moscow. Chromium-nickel stainless steel is really so inert that it has no effect on human and animal tissues, but not only medical instruments are made of it, but also watch cases, door handles and even paper clips. It's just that the 18/10 alloy pots, pans and cutlery are really wonderful and have unique properties. You can cook and store any food in them, the dishes are easy to wash with detergents (just don't scratch and use abrasive powders and pastes) ... "
🔗 - if you want to read to the end.

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Ahh, more about frying in pans! Wait, I'll repost my answer to a very colorful character from another forum. With her, the forum raged for a year and a half almost every day.
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Lyudmila said:
March 15, 2011 at 11:27

Vit, you are deeply mistaken in your words, but I'm not going to argue with you here on the forum, stay further with your subjective opinion. You can add water to the soup after cooking. You seem to be like "Unbeliever Thomas" everywhere they write that fried food is harmful, but here you are trying to argue.

Wit said:
March 15, 2011 at 13:30

Lyudmila, at least you yourself understood that you just said: "... You can add water AFTER COOKING to the soup. Have you ever cooked the soup? However, you can not answer.
"... everywhere they write that fried is harmful ..." They write just NOT EVERYWHERE. Otherwise, everyone would have given oak long ago. Fried is harmful! And what exactly? You can also not answer, because you yourself do not really know. You have one scarecrow - a carcinogen! Since you have to walk around the sites broke, then sit there and read here (it seems that they say so in Odessa).

If you have a clear idea of ​​what kind of hazardous substances are formed in food during the frying process, then most of the dangers can be avoided. So I propose to delve into the following list.

Acrolein
Where to look? In vapors from a frying pan.
Why is it dangerous? Irritates the mucous membranes of the eyes and respiratory tract, contributes to the development of inflammatory diseases, has a general toxic effect
Who is it dangerous to? A cook who breathes in vapors.
When is it formed? From the first moments of heating the frying pan with oil, especially intensively at the point of smoking.
How to protect yourself? Do not heat the oil to smoke, if you fry often - buy a cooker hood.

Acrylamide
Where to look? In a brown crust on starchy foods (potatoes, donuts, etc.) that have been exposed to prolonged or high temperature. frying in vegetable oil.
Why is it dangerous? Presumably a carcinogen.
Who is it dangerous to? The carcinogenic effect on the organism of laboratory mice that ate such products has been reliably established; the harmfulness to humans is being studied.
When is it formed? Especially active when deep-fried for a long time.
How to protect yourself? Avoid high frying temperatures, be careful when deep-frying.

Free radicals and fatty acid polymers
Where to look? There is oil residue on the fried food.
Why are they dangerous? When consumed in significant doses, they are carcinogenic.
Who are they dangerous to? To the consumer of a fried product.
When are they formed? When heated, and especially actively - at the point of smoke.
How to protect yourself? Select oils with a high smoke point, do not use darkened oil.

Heterocyclic amines
Where to look? In fried in a pan, smoked, baked with the addition of vegetable oil (especially rich in polyunsaturated acids) meat and fish products.
Why are they dangerous? Carcinogens.
Who are they dangerous to? To the person consuming these products.
When are they formed? When frying foods containing proteins in vegetable oil, especially after the smoke point.
How to protect yourself? Do not overheat the pan, prefer animal fats or vegetable oils with a high smoke point for frying meat.

Polycyclic substances with a high carbon content (coronene, chrysene, perylene, benzo (a) pyrene, dibenzpyrene).
Where to look? In burnt (to black) fried foods.
Why are they dangerous? Strong carcinogens.
Who are they dangerous to? The consumer of food.
When are they formed? At the moment of burning.
How to protect yourself? Avoid scorching, turn food frequently, filter deep-frying oil after each use.

What is a smoke point?
It is known that harmful chemical compounds are especially actively formed in oil when it starts to smoke in a frying pan. The smoke point (it is also the smoke point) is different for each type of oil. Therefore, the higher the smoke point, the more suitable vegetable oil is for frying.It should be borne in mind that this figure is rather arbitrary: when the temperature on the surface of the oil has not yet reached 150 ° C, in a layer in contact with a hot frying pan, it can be 300 °. Theoretically, a cast-iron frying pan on a gas burner can heat up to 600 °, and on an electric one - up to 700. Nevertheless, the “smoke point” has long been a guideline for cooks when choosing oils for frying and deep-frying. Let it serve home cooks too. The list below shows the smoke point (Celsius) of the most popular oils.

Sunflower unrefined - 107
Refined sunflower seed - 232
Refined rapeseed - 240
Refined soybean - 232
Refined corn - 232
Creamy - 177
Olive extra virgin - 191
Palm - 232
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[Wit]

Please note that not a single case has been reliably RECORDED when aluminum cookware (uncoated) would lead to death or some kind of chronic illness. NOT A single case has been reliably recorded when the use of PTFE coated cookware would lead to similar consequences. NO negative impact on human health of siloxane coatings (ceramic) has been identified at the moment. About stainless steel, which supposedly gives off nickel - this is outright speculation. <...> Therefore, the author of the post is right NO ONE responsible and versed in this topic person will not show you the "ideal" brand of dishes - because it simply does not exist. Humanity is constantly balancing on the brink of its own incompetence, which, moreover, is still muddied by trade and information wars. <...> I disagree with the author of the post about cast iron and pottery. Cast iron in itself is no better than the same aluminum without coating, because it is not corrosion-resistant and soot, which protects the pan from rust and provides some non-stick properties, is a concern. But no one died from him. <...> Earthenware is not perfect from the point of view of hygiene. because it has a porous structure, and various decals and enamels can contain all kinds of crap like cadmium. Ceramic dishes are fragile and short-lived and are problematic to use on modern types of stoves.

There were no reliably recorded deaths from? Or chronic diseases? And how to reliably determine what causes these diseases in people, and even in generations? Such studies last (if at all) not one or two decades. The generation will change when it will be possible to find out something. therefore we cannot talk about any certainty at all. And why do the very information wars arise?, in which, by the way, you also participate (as a specialist in stainless steel dishes), occupying one or another position (or even a very specific one). This is what I said in my post, which you and Wit began to zealously refute, without grasping the essence of what was said. Now you can find a lot of information on the Internet (google), both one and the opposite content about the harm or environmental friendliness of this or that material. But again, now there is not a single material from which frying pans are made that would be environmentally friendly... You can find something in everything (and if you haven’t found it yet, they will find it, after a couple or ten years - "vapsche, living is harmful" © IRR). Therefore, once again, now in words mr.Catlery: "NO ONE responsible and knowledgeable person will not show you the" ideal "brand of tableware - because it simply does not exist."

[Wit]

There were no reliably recorded deaths from? Or chronic diseases? And how to reliably determine what causes these diseases in people, and even in generations? Such studies last (if at all) not one or two decades. The generation will change when it will be possible to find out something. therefore we can’t talk about any certainty at all. And why do the very information wars arise?, in which, by the way, you also participate (as a specialist in stainless steel dishes), taking one or another position (or even a very specific one). This is what I said in my post, which you and Wit began to zealously refute, without grasping the essence of what was said. Now you can find a lot of information on the Internet (google), both one and the opposite content about the harm or environmental friendliness of this or that material. But again, now there is not a single material from which pans are made that would be environmentally friendly... You can find something in everything (and if you haven’t found it yet, they will find it, after a couple or ten years - "vapsche, living is harmful" © IRR). Therefore, once again, now in words mr.Catlery: "NO ONE responsible and knowledgeable person will not show you the" ideal "brand of tableware - because it simply does not exist."

Yes, I will not deny, I did participate in several such "information wars", but I fought with ignorance and frankly inaccurate information. You probably have your own apocalyptic concept of this very "environmental friendliness". My own concepts of the safety of materials used for the production of dishes are based on the current standards of SaNPiN, These standards were developed by hygienists, that is, people who are responsible for our health. The safety of materials is determined by the MPC standards established for all types of materials. And on the Internet everyone writes to everyone and everything that gets there, that is, of course you can google it, but here Vit has already given many examples of what kind of nonsense you can google like that. I talked about the "ideal brand" of cookware with the problem of choosing quality cookware, not its safety. Security is a separate topic.

You probably have your own apocalyptic concept of this very "environmental friendliness". My own concepts of the safety of materials used for the production of dishes are based on the current standards of SaNPiN, These standards were developed by hygienists, that is, people who are responsible for our health. The safety of materials is determined by the MPC standards established for all types of materials.

That is, you don’t know or pretend that you don’t know how these norms are "developed" and the necessary certificates are bought? Slightly moving away from the topic ... And Pepsi, and chips and other crap also meet the "norms", only this poison is consumed in food - to destroy yourself and your children. For anything (and even more so, for our health) "hygienists" are not responsible (carefully study the laws - a doctor is not responsible for the patient's health / ill health if he acts according to the norms, that is, no one is responsible for our health except ourselves). And referring to the current sanitary standards is, of course, convenient. You are not responsible for anything. I agree with you that my vision is apocalyptic (by the way, apocalyptic - frank, uncovering). And yes, you are right, we are all ignorant, because we are handed noodles about safety, according to the current sanitary standards, and we believe, because we have no other choice. As the girls have already said here, the stores sell what they sell. And we have to buy it - we ourselves cannot produce everything necessary for our everyday life. And not everyone will go to the forests. So we live, some - pretending to develop standards, others - pretending that their products comply with these standards, and still others - pretending to believe both the standards and the certificates ...

I apologize for digressing from the topic. I am silent

Sorry to interfere with the discussion, but what about glassware is it harmless? Pans that is glass.

It is completely chemically inert. One drawback is that it beats, it is not always possible to put on an open fire, it is better through the divider. Well, it does not magnetize to modern hobs. But it is absolutely harmless.

That is, you don’t know or pretend that you don’t know how these norms are “developed” and the necessary certificates are bought? Slightly off-topic ...And Pepsi, and chips and other crap also meet the "norms", only this poison is consumed in food - to destroy yourself and your children. For anything (and even more so, for our health) "hygienists" are not responsible (carefully study the laws - a doctor is not responsible for the patient's health / ill health if he acts according to the norms, that is, no one is responsible for our health except ourselves). And referring to the current sanitary standards is, of course, convenient. You are not responsible for anything. I agree with you that my vision is apocalyptic (by the way, apocalyptic - frank, uncovering). And yes, you are right, we are all ignorant, because we are handed noodles about safety, according to the current sanitary standards, and we believe, because we have no other choice. As the girls have already said here, the stores sell what they sell. And we have to buy it - we ourselves cannot produce everything we need for our life. And not everyone will go to the forests. So we live, some - pretending to develop standards, others - pretending that their products comply with these standards, and still others - pretending to believe both the standards and the certificates ...

I apologize for digressing from the topic. I am silent

What I know about the safety of stainless steel cookware you can read it in my article 🔗 I certainly also know how the certificates are obtained, although they indicate only the compliance of the product with certain requirements of the standards. I don’t know about others, but we are obligatory to carry out hygienic examinations at least once a quarter, and sometimes more often if we release a new product. We conduct them ourselves, without reminders, because this is established by our legislation. In general, I want to say that just like reading "Soviet newspapers", and watching horror films, which are riveted by the NTV channel, under the headings "History of All-Russian Deception" and "Divorce in Russian" must be dosed in some way, otherwise you can get a dislocated brain. By the nature of my work, I am also engaged in the practice of claims, and especially neglected cases. Therefore, I can say with full responsibility that among consumers there is a certain percentage of not quite adequate people, most often these are former teachers (teachers) who retire with a completely destroyed psyche and some "specialists" who studied in some then the university, after that 20 years traded in the market, but still consider themselves deeply knowledgeable people. What responsibility the doctor bears, I also don't need to explain, my mother worked for them all her career, and what is written in the laws on this matter will be explained to me by our full-time lawyer, by the way, the best in the republic. So you don't have to throw dirt at everyone. technically and legally competent people work in domestic industries, the country has norms and standards that are observed. No need pls. interfere with everyone in a bunch, if you have a phobia in this regard, go to a psychologist before it's too late. If you have evidence that the current, established norms of SanPiN do not ensure health safety, then pls. this evidence is here, and we'll see. And one more example, for 6 or 7 years I have been wearing a denture made of the same "allergenic" nickel steel grade, and even covered with titanium nitride in places, and as you can see, I am still alive and well and what I am writing this post is direct proof of this.

The main problems with hygienic safety arise with improper or inappropriate use of dishes, as well as with some types of imported dishes that do not meet the current safety standards, and then with too much use. Natural environmental factors affect human health by several orders of magnitude more, so you should not dramatize the situation in vain.

And what was the bottom of this frying pan? Rolled (with concentric grooves) or dyed?

Here it is

And what kind of expertise was suggested to you by the IMA - the product itself or information about the product?

The product itself.

Here it is

The product itself.

ABOUT! Your truth, if they turned to me, I would help you to "shoe" your IMP in full with the payment of moral costs This bottom is NOT INTENDED for use on a glass-ceramic surface, the manufacturer has misled you. And the point here is not the quality of the goods, but the INCLUSION of information about the goods

[mr.Catlery]

No, I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of "shoes". I told on this forum about this frying pan and posted a photo, just to warn the girls about the inconsistency of the information in the frying pan with its purpose. I never used this frying pan on glass ceramics. And the traces on the surface disappeared over time ... well, or became less noticeable.
Oh, right, mr.Catlery, enough already ... Huh? We have already understood your position many times.
And in fact, why am I closing my review of glasses

Well, it’s great, all manufacturers would have such conscious buyers. We understood it ourselves, figured it out ourselves and solved someone else's problem.

Not a question, only you yourself understand - pickup from the Republic of Belarus.

From which point of the Republic of Belarus? and at what price?

[Mr Catlery]

Mr Catlery ! Following this link, your "beloved" firm chekhvostit so-called. "ceramic" coating in words that are very understandable for "simple" housewives who rave about this coating. It turns out "over the hill" it is called "easy-to-clean", which in translation from Angian into French is called "coating, easy leaving". And in Russian it is" translated "as" non-stick ".
🔗

Yes, indeed, "easy to care for", although given all the burdens in the form of the prohibition of dishwasher and the danger of overheating, as well as the indelibility of natural food colors, even this term I would question. the impression that I ended up on one side of the "barricades" with the NWO. But actually it is not. NWO in the "methods" of promoting their rather expensive, but not always quality products does not fundamentally differ from the promoters of the so-called "ceramic" pans GreenPan. Here, too, the article was not without a nasty black "PR" about formaldehyde, lead and cadmium. I have already spoken a lot about how our hygienists "are able" to find something that is not in the product, especially on direct instructions from Comrade. Onishchenko. Therefore, I declare officially, I do not support such "creativity" of the NWO, I do not share it, and I consider it as unscrupulous as the information from the promoters of ceramic coatings. It makes no sense to produce frankly inaccurate information and try to shield your products. NWO pans and their "space" coatings are a separate topic of conversation. Look how their marketers felt the wind of change after the start of the FAS proceedings at the request of SEB in which they are also signatories! This is a typical attempt to cook your own kasha on someone else's fire, nothing more.

Subtracted now on one forum)

Alaverdi, if you will.
Ten or eleven years ago, my wife and I decided to purchase a complete (for a family, naturally) set of kitchen utensils from the Verkhne-Salda Metallurgical Plant. Well, this one with a thick bottom, stainless steel, shines with polished sides. The quality matches the price, and the price is quite serious. The old motley and non-uniform dishes were unanimously taken off to the dacha. Well, it is clear that all these years VSMPO products have been working in our kitchen. And so...
- Damn, - the spouse says to me, - the handle on one side of the stewpan fell off, - I'll have to buy a new one.
Well, buy, then buy. Forward!
Yes, the company in which all these dishes were purchased (10 years ago) has already ordered a long life two years ago. And in its place another arose. And now the most important thing. Cookware design has changed. And you simply cannot find the exact same stewpan. She goes to the manager of the dealer company. So, they say, and so.And he says to her, bring the old stewpan, we will send it for examination at OUR ACCOUNT, if it turns out that the marriage (after 10 years of operation) is factory, we will repair it completely free of charge. The warranty for this cookware (VSMPO) is LIFETIME!
Well, spouse, of course, a slender body in the car, a key to the start. Go! I brought a stewpan, they took it, wrote down the contact phone number and took leave. A month has passed, maybe a little over. They call. Come on over. Hand over. They not only welded the handle, but also polished it again, restored the geometry (it was a sin, it fell a couple of times and the edge was slightly wrinkled) and equipped with a second small handle. And all for thanks!
When asked, why the hell do you need this, because the old company died, and we didn't even have any checks left, the senior manager of the selling company said:
-Reputation. It doesn't matter where the dishes are bought, it is important that they are ours, and we RESPOND for the quality.

So, I think the future is not for the extortionists, but for those who are responsible. At least for the quality, at least for the market.

And VSMPO and Verkhnyaya Salda, speaking the current youth language, respect and respect!

Yes, this is really an example of a normal, civilized attitude of the manufacturer to his customer. With st. anything can happen during use - it can, for example, fall over due to carelessness. And if the handle of the saucepan is spot-welded, then for it, such a fall can lead to shearing of the welding points, with a hard impact. The case is, in principle, NOT a WARRANTY, but for a manufacturer who has welding and polishing equipment (in contrast to numerous importers and sellers) it is not so difficult to rectify the situation, there was goodwill and normal treatment of the consumer. And not only VSMPO does this. No normal manufacturer will give up his products, because for him the reputation of a brand is more expensive than the penny costs of restoring a broken product. Well, and one more thing - LIFETIME warranties for dishes do not actually exist, because there are no ETERNAL manufacturers. Therefore, the declaration by the sellers of both a 10-year and 25-year or the same "lifetime" warranty is ultimately checked when this very warranty or non-warranty case actually occurs, as in this example. And the usual 2-year warranty provided for by the standard may, as in the case of VSMPO, be effective, while the declared "eternal" or 25-year warranty may turn out to be nothing.

Girls, hello!
Spontaneously bought yesterday (long history ...) a Bachmayer Solingen cookware set, model BM-1680, with a ceramic coated pans and a large pot. Here's one.

I haven't read the whole topic, can anyone use it, tell me, how is she normal?
She also had a set of ceramic knives, I liked them right away.
Heard that she's like a Zepter, are there any cooking jokes or is this a publicity stunt?
A weighty horse can be killed ... especially a frying pan with a ceramic coating.
At first glance, it seems like quality is nothing. But how does ceramics behave in cooking, are there any special features in cooking?
How many questions ... Well, if it’s not difficult of course, write at least in general terms, I don’t know whether I’m happy or not.

Well, I guess. that the history of the acquisition is about the same as described here 🔗 and so 🔗 and here in general in detail 🔗absolutely not new, one might even say typical. It is called a gypsy divorce for money. These pots are weighty because the bottom instead of most of the aluminum is 2.5mm. black plate, it says "9 layers" on the box, wow! who will come up with more! In these "layers" there are at least 4 layers .... this is nonsense of an inflamed mind. The fact that this is a clumsy Chinese fake is indicated by obvious inconsistencies that were drawn on the box by people of all known nationalities who did not study well in geography school. The dishes are supposedly "German" from Zolingen (they have not produced anything like that for a long time), as well as the same "Swiss quality control" mulch and Swiss flag. You need to read the Internet, however, before you give the money back to the crook ...

Thanks for the info, I read it. Well, well, although I also knocked down the price, otherwise I see people here and bought it for 300-500 bucks. Then it turns out that I bought it for sheer nonsense. Although this is also an invaluable experience. And from this no one is immune.
In general, I would not have bothered with this, the mommy helped me (73 years old and a very easily inspired person, they persuaded her, and I had a situation that there was no time to delve into it especially), I was led for her sake, and since then typing in the Internet the model number, it gave me that there is such a dish, they send it, the minimum price was 1200 UAH (they send it for 3000 UAH, you never know who will lead).
Well, in principle, dishes are like dishes. And we'll see. I didn't lose the cow. If only mom does not worry ...
And as for crooks, I'm not worried, everyone will find their own, and they too ... I do not envy these people, I feel sorry for them, sincerely.
Thanks again for the links and info.

She most likely will not cause any harm, although this can be said for sure only after a hygienic examination. Functionally, of course, it will not be the same as it is presented (a la Zepter), and for 2-3 years it may be enough, but then buy something worthwhile, making a more careful and meaningful choice. If for the money it turned out not fatal, then really you shouldn't get very upset

If for the money it turned out not fatal, then really you shouldn't get very upset

That is not, I am not upset, because I still did not give up for air. Well, even if it does not quite correspond to this amount, but still ...
I always use the same principle: when I spend on something with doubt, I give back exactly what I can part with calmly, that is, assuming that this money is lost for me. By the way, that's exactly what I am giving to people (giving only as much as I can survive if they are not returned). Naturally, if this happens, then the last time for this person. And maybe he needs them more, who knows ... in any case, I will not record anyone as an enemy.
Therefore, with these "pieces of paper" I have no loss of consciousness. But this is already a philosophical question ...

Girls from Ukraine, did anyone see where you can buy such dishes


found her on this site 🔗

What can I say - an illiterate and clumsy article written, in style quite "worthy" of the antipode of Grinpan's cheap agitprop and TV news from Elena Malysheva. The same distortion of information only with a twist for nmpash PTFE coatings, which at the moment are the WORST in their performance properties in comparison with European ones. Comparison of frying pan covers with materials for heart valves is simply not correct - the operating temperatures are completely wrong. And the main problems with the destruction of PTFE occur precisely at elevated temperatures. That the non-stick properties of PTFE are based on the "inertness" of the coating is sheer fiction. The thermal resistance of the PTFE coating is limited to + 250C (a temperature that is quite achievable in an oven). For example, PTFE coatings on black steel should never be used on items such as grill grates. And quite often such black Chinese grilles with such a PTFE coating are sold. This is the first thing to fight against. About the fact that there are allegedly no methods for checking the hygienic safety of siloxane (ceramic) coatings - outright cheap misinformation. And about the fact that there is nothing but water and PTFE in the nmpeshny coating - this is an outright lie. Well, the main message of this article is, of course, very original - no matter how spinning and around there is one continuous chemistry, so citizens do not twitch and calmly fry their cutlets on our plastic of IV hazard class and you, as they say, what's the difference from what to die - and we enjoy work through the profit received Well, on account of the fact that we, allegedly, cannot live without nmpeshny plastic, I can say that these are all insinuations.The best AP coverage is its complete absence! And reliable and environmentally friendly!

Good afternoon, Mr. Catlery!

My wife and I wrote you a letter a week ago, but there is still no answer. Maybe it didn't make it? Look here please.

Yours faithfully,
Alexander.

Hmm. strange, but for some reason nothing came

I just sent you again, the subject of the letter is "Zatsikavilisya to your dishes"

I was presented with a frying pan with a ceramic coating. thanks to this topic, I learned that you cannot preheat it. Now I cooked eggs on it without a drop of oil - I broke eggs on a cold surface and it turned out to be an excellent fried egg. nowhere stuck to a frying pan - slipped into a plate like in an advertisement

in general I define this frying pan for frying without oil, especially for scrambled eggs!

[dopleta]

dopleta, thanks for the article "chemistry around us". I really like the frying pans of this company. I have been using it for a long time and have something to compare with.

[dopleta]

dopleta, thanks for the article "chemistry around us". I really like the frying pans of this company. I have been using it for a long time and have something to compare with.

I, too, Olga, really like these pans.

I was presented with a frying pan with a ceramic coating. Thanks to this topic, I learned that you cannot preheat it. Now I cooked eggs on it without a drop of oil - I broke eggs on a cold surface and it turned out to be an excellent fried egg. nowhere stuck to a frying pan - slipped into a plate as in an advertisement

in general I define this frying pan for frying without oil, especially for scrambled eggs!

Frying without oil is about the same as driving a car without gasoline Should we be so happy that an egg is fried in siloxane grease - a chemical component of the so-called ceramic coating? Well, for 6-8 months (if you're lucky), this frying pan will still delight you, and then you will be tortured to tear this scrambled eggs from the frying pan

[mr.Catlery]

mr.Catlery, I really love fried in oil, but, unfortunately, it is not always possible, so my frying pan made me very, very happy.
if after 6-8 months I cannot fry eggs on it, I will check how something else is fried. if it's bad, I'll throw it out

according to my personal observation, the best scrambled eggs are obtained on this Ikeevsky frying pan 🔗 - it has some kind of optimal combination of diameter, wall thickness, etc. 1-2-3 eggs on it are obtained as needed - they will not burn anywhere, everything will grab from above and the yolk is liquid. in general, the song! but on it I only fry with butter, without - it doesn't work ...

but at the expense of chemical components - I am very interested and informative to read your posts. and I agree that the best coverage is its absence. but what can I do if around me, in the world where I live, almost the entire environment is poisonous? I see no reason to deny myself a donated frying pan, while inhaling poisoned air, consuming suspicious water and conserving it with elements from food purchased in a store. I understand all this, but I don't want to go to the mountains and live on a subsistence economy. but here - you give up one, so the other harms (often even what you suspected is safe).

something like that

Well, by and large, you are of course right - there are solid household chemicals around us. Life is generally a harmful thing, a person caresses and cherishes his body, torments him with black caviar, various delights, and in the end this very organism will take one day and die itself, if some machine does not run over it before. from the butter, although it tasted better with it. And the frying pan will still not have time to cause any significant damage to health, due to its limited service life. Well, the ikeevskaya stamped frying pan for 89r. has a fairly limited functionality and you need to warm it carefully.

Hello! Maybe here you can talk about the following topic: ceramic coatings of dishes of different colors - gray, white, black, what components are used to create one or another color of the coating? I've heard that initially the enamel color is reddish due to iron oxide. And how does it become, for example, white or black? Is this subject to control at all?

[| Alexandra |]

| Alexandra |, we have a separate topic dedicated to ceramic cookware. Someone will probably answer you there, we have specialists (IRRochka,!), So go here .

We talked with her, ceramics and ceramic coatings are completely different things.She sent me here, and you drive me. Well, it's really interesting - the reddish tint of iron oxide cannot be completely removed even with titanium oxide, and my MV has a dazzling white bowl. And are there any other options for enamel besides this reddish low-temperature glass? The same applies to coated cookware.

And here you are talking about siloxane ceramic coatings - what color are they originally and how do they become white or black? Or are they this low-temperature glass?

[mr.Catlery]

And here you are talking about siloxane ceramic coatings - what color are they originally and how do they become white or black? Or are they this low-temperature glass?

If I knew that you were interested, I would remember the link. I read about these "colors". In short, dyes are mixed before sintering. Who controls this process? You touch me. There is a cookware specialist on this thread. His name is mr.Catlery ... If you are urgently interested, then I will direct you to his home by reference. Exactly yesterday, he posted there pictures of Zepter dishes (pots, pans) with a sawn grinder, to show that this is the most common technology. I have already informed him about your question. Wait.

[Vit,]

Vit, Please share a link where you can see the sawn septor?

Wait, I'll look for one more reference and I'll give both. There the pictures are even cooler with cool comments and answers to questions.

[mr.Catlery]

If I knew that you were interested, I would remember the link. I read about these "colors". In short, dyes are mixed before sintering. Who controls this process? You touch me. There is a cookware specialist on this thread. His name is mr.Catlery ... If you are urgently interested, then I will direct you to his home by reference. Exactly yesterday, he posted there pictures of Zepter dishes (pots, pans) with a sawn grinder, to show that this is the most common technology. I have already informed him about your question. Wait.

Thank you very much! I'm just killed by all this info, I'll have to take Redmond's stainless steel at least. So the manufacturers, even if they honestly receive a certificate, do not represent the components of the process anyway? I was "thrown" here as to specialists. Of course, I understand that this is stupid - "there is a mess around - and I am in white", but to understand the degree of harm as much as possible and try to possibly choose something else is simply psychologically necessary ... It's so good to live with CF, I now wanted the second one Polaris 0517 or Sigmund I try to choose both Stein 38R and HP on the basis of "branded" Teflon

I think Mr. Catlery will not throw a slipper at me if I reassure you about the harmfulness of coatings. They won't harm you. The temperatures in the machines you named are not so high that some nasty thread starts to stand out. The question is different - in the noodles, which are trying to hang on the ears of consumers by individual manufacturers of dishes, trend about their own and too their super-coating. Well, they would only lie to take their dishes, but their purpose is, in the main, to justify the price that has been raised in excess of the measure. This is the whole point. You can take nice and inexpensive normal dishes and not GreenPinch, ugh! in the sense of not steaming.

Hello! Maybe here you can talk about the following topic: ceramic coatings of dishes of different colors - gray, white, black, what components are used to create one or another color of the coating? I've heard that initially the enamel color is reddish due to iron oxide. And how does it become, for example, white or black? Is this subject to control at all?

The gel from which the base of the siloxane (ceramic) coating is sintered can be painted in any color before being applied to the aluminum base, it is also possible to make the PTFE coating colored and apply a pattern, inscriptions, etc. on it (TEFAL). And this is not enamel and even has nothing to do with enamel. After sintering at a temperature of + 180C, the solvents evaporate, and the base is saturated with siloxane (silicone grease), due to which such surfaces are obtained. This is controlled by the manufacturer of the coatings themselves and the one who applies it to the aluminum base. By the way, one of the disadvantages of a white siloxane coating is that it is easily stained with natural food colors contained in products. So after the beetroot, the white frying pan can turn glamorous pink, etc. And there is no way to return it to its original state.In general, color in coatings is more of a marketing aspect than some kind of technical or functional.

And here you are talking about siloxane ceramic coatings - what color are they originally and how do they become white or black? Or are they this low-temperature glass?

These coatings have nothing to do with glass, they have only a common chemical. elements like Si and O.

I think Mr. Catlery will not throw a slipper at me if I reassure you about the harmfulness of coatings. They won't harm you. The temperatures in the machines you named are not so high that some nasty thread starts to stand out. The question is different - in the noodles, which are trying to hang on the ears of consumers by individual manufacturers of dishes, trend about their own and too their super-coating. Well, they would only lie to take their dishes, but their purpose is, in the main, to justify the price that has been raised in excess of the measure. This is the whole point. You can take nice and inexpensive normal dishes and not GreenPinch, ugh! in the sense of not steaming.

I will definitely not throw a slipper, the coatings in the process of work come into contact with the product containing moisture, so their temperature is even lower than in a frying pan. It's really not worth worrying about hygienic safety if the normal coating is from a well-known manufacturer.

and for the second week I have been trying to buy a cast-iron frying pan with a weight-lid for a chicken, tobacco still won't be delivered - they say no ...

Are you waiting for something very special?
In the Kazan store, everyone has a lot of different ones. And Russia, Belarus, Ukraine ... cast iron, not cheap, of course ... 🔗