Choosing a dishwasher

you need to fill up the lemon, only when the pre-wash - rinsing will take place

[Linen]

By the way, scale from meat (protein rim) is not particularly washed off under normal conditions - first of all, thermonuclear detergents and a hot long program are needed, and only then we can talk about the brand.)

Linen, and not only from meat does not wash. I will not list everything.

you need to fill up the lemon, only when the pre-wash - rinsing will take place

That is, I turn on the hottest program and wait for the first water drain? Pour lemon directly into the powder / tablet container? Right?

[Bijou]

Bijou, Lena, it is clear that nothing is clear)))

That is, I turn on the hottest program and wait for the first water drain? Pour lemon directly into the powder / tablet container? Right?

yes, that's right, only I hear that when the lid for the product snapped, that is, it opened, then I open the pmm and pour 160 grams of monkey right to the bottom, something to stuff into the compartment, it will still get enough sleep, and the compartment is small

Dishwasher Bosch.
Foolishly bought a set of stainless steel dishes, WMF. I began to pay attention to the rainbow stains inside the pots. Frosh, Finish, Domestos powder. Only tablets in a gel shell Quantum slightly correct this situation. But the ability to use them on an ongoing basis, alas and ah.
What is the reason?

[ellen]

ellen, in all likelihood, either too soft water, or too alkaline tablets.
There is nothing wrong with these stains, in contrast to rainbow stains on the glass or its haze. On glass it is indestructible, and on iron it is easily removed with something sour handy - a spoonful of vinegar or a slice of lemon. Maybe you can use a tomato, but I haven't tried it.))

[Lena]

Lena, Bijou, but why should I be a dishwasher then ?! :-))))
Maybe try changing the water hardness?

[ellen]

ellen, try adding lemon to the rinse, and do not dry, when drying, very often anything that is difficult to wipe off remains on the dishes. Because of this, I do not "wash" the dishes at night, I track the rinsing, I add 0.5 tbsp at this time. l. lemons and turn off at the very beginning of drying, open the machine and dry at room temperature in a natural way. My washing powder is Japanese, if that ...
With very soft water, no streaks seem to form, we have very soft water in St. Petersburg, a washing machine for about 20 years, I have not used calgon in my life, dishwasher for 7 years, I have never added lemon, no scale, streaks, etc. But in the village, each wash - the obligatory addition of lemon to the rinse.

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, then in your case it is easier to pour the lemon solution instead of the rinse aid.))
But half a spoonful of acid for a couple of liters of water is cool.

[Lena]

Lena, I somehow did not think, I will take into account, thanks!
I may have less than 3 liters, a so-called desktop machine, very small, for everything, about everything it takes 8 liters ...

[Mandraik Ludmila]

Mandraik Ludmila, yeah, you can gradually reduce the portion and empirically determine the required minimum.
And what does the dishes look like if you do not rinse with acid? Whitish drops, or what?

[Lena]

Lena, steel dishes become gray, not shiny, glass transparent, not drops but evenly gray film - horror. This is in the village, from a well, through coarse filters. Water seems to be good, but we filter it twice for drinking with different jugs with hard water purification.
And in the city I never thought about drops, scale, plaque ... there is no such thing ...

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, oh, I had the same rubbish when I started to wash without salt with gel. On the tablets, it still went all right, but the machine choked on the gel - just like the dishes (and the camera partly) became rough-matte and disgusting to the touch. I had to fill up the salt and refuse the finishing gel. ((
Yes, water is very hard - just a little in the container and a hard lime film on top.

[Lena]

Lena, I now pour in the same salt, the usual fine, I have Japanese Kao powder, at home in the city - it washes with a bang, but here I rinse only with lemon, now I will sprinkle less .. Without lemon, even the plastic handles of the forks become disgustingly rough! And in our country, iron oxides settle to the bottom and walls of the buckets, with a slimy film br-r-r

And in our country, iron oxides settle to the bottom and walls of the buckets, with a slimy film br-r-r

Ahh ... Well, ion exchangers do not live long in such conditions. ((Even if you rash them that salt, at least not. Iron water kills them pretty quickly. Maybe that's why there is a plaque on dishes? Or was it from the very first day?

[Ludmila]

Ludmila, Mandraik Ludmila, Thank you! But, of course, I have no opportunity to play like that. :-( When I bake bread on hearth and sourdough, this tie to the place and time makes me very tired.
Girls, can anyone else share their advice?

[ellen]

ellen, from another forum. Seem to be?))

- Can you please tell me who understands why such stains can appear on stainless steel? I also often notice such stains on cutlery. [photo of the rainbow at the bottom of the pot]

- Oxidation. The steel is cheap. Ikeynaya, I suppose?

- No, the old German saucepan König, the cutlery doesn't seem to be the cheapest either. Can't you fix it?

- In principle, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And such stains are easily removed with a slice of lemon or rinsing with any acid, even citric acid, even acetic acid. Maybe you can even use a tomato, but I haven't tried it.))
The reason for the occurrence in the dishwasher is too active mode. There may be several components - too soft water, too aggressive and alkaline detergent, too high a temperature, too little chromium in the steel composition ... Wait a guess.

- I have the problem with rainbow stains on stainless steel is gone... First I tried to increase the salt by one unit, but it got even worse, then reduced it, set it to one. Now everything is ok, nothing is oxidized.

Man just made the water a little harder and it helped him. Why don't you try this advice first? Not the fact that it will help, but at least one option can be excluded.

Moreover, one cannot judge by the first wash, several must pass.

Or was it from the very first day?

Yeah, it was before I began to use salt and lemon, that's why I began to look for additional funds, that at one time the dishes turned gray ... Maybe salt is not really needed, it seems to me that lemon solves problems in my situation alone .. ...

Lena, I had such a problem with cutlery, after changing the pills, I bought another company. A rainbow bloom appeared, already some kind of gray. Dishwasher Gaggenau. (The same Bosch concern), I changed the stiffness settings by one position, out of the possible 7 it is on the four. It's okay now. Try it, maybe my advice will help you.

[Lena]

Lena, I'll try it with pleasure! Thank you!

Oh, I read myself and remembered that I did the RINSING AGENT settings! It should be reduced by one or two positions.

The girls have opened the Ribbon for a few days. There is their firm powder. Have you tried it? How is he? Many times cheaper than the Finish, so I ask

[mowgli]

mowgli, I tried.)
I didn't like it at all. I just couldn't use it at all. I poured it into a bottle from Somat, I have been trying to use it for the third year, pouring it on the front wash.) And even then I like soda for these purposes more.
Although one or two people said I liked it. And my dishes are matte, sticky, in short, what a fucking. ((But our water is hard.

But I have been using pills for many years.I still have stocks at the old prices and I have already taken two large boxes of new ones.) Modern ones I put in the shell, it is soluble. Even if you buy without discounts, and then the sink is about seven and a half rubles, but usually I dial when there are discounts. Then about five rubles goes to the sink.

Another subtlety about tape funds. With bewilderment, I found strongly negative reviews on the pills. Looked closely - and they others! Mine on the package have a reddish bottom layer, and those - yellow. I don’t know what it’s connected with. But you can look for pictures yourself.

Hello everybody. Help me figure it out, pliiiiiiiz.
I'm new to PMM communication. I bought and poured salt like this

I also bought Tyron tablets and Suprim mouthwash.
I filled in rinse aid, set it to 04. And then I don't know how to set it up. The packaging of the tablets says Max in one, what does it mean? Well, I understand that there are a lot of additives, in the form of protecting silver, glass and other things. Is there a rinse aid too? Or do you need it by itself? The salt is poured, the unit is very smart, he himself will figure out how much salt to take. Do you need to reduce the rinse aid, or is it not available in tablets?
I put half a pill, I have 45.
I read Temka from cover to cover, I understand that everything will come with experience. But it also needs to be recruited. That is why I ask experienced hostesses. Can someone tell me

I filled in rinse aid, set it to 04. And then I don’t know how to set it up.

Was it the rinse aid that you set, and not the regeneration? In general, the instructions usually describe all this in some detail, but, probably, the manufacturer of your car was not very "lucky" in this regard? ((

The rinse aid can be safely put below - there is something similar to it in the tablets. Well, or at least periodically change the readings, looking closely at the result. A lot of rinse aid - clean water from the tap in such dishes foams, not enough rinse aid - the dishes are too wet after drying. However, a small dose of a pill will smooth the situation.))

Is Regeneration Salt? Am I getting it right?
According to the water hardness (according to the water utility, about 5 mmol with explanations that this water is of medium hardness, although according to the instructions for the machine it is hard), the adjustment should be set to 07. But I left the factory settings at 04 and the rinse aid was also 04, I also did not change until. I experiment and observe the result.
I didn't change the settings, but I put the floor of the tablet


But I don't know what to do with the rinse aid. Reduce it or not.
The dishes are washed well, there is no plaque or film that was written about here. But there are some water droplets. And not only on plastic, on glass and pans too.
The dishes have no smell either. Everything glitters and creaks.
Something like that.

Girls, help the dishes, the black glass is covered with stains, like they poured gasoline. Bosch machine. My pills, but I also fall asleep with salt and rinse aid. Salt, maybe I'm afraid for the ionizer, and the rinse aid, because it dries badly without it, wet I live in Sochi, the water is hard. The rigidity is at 5k. On a higher value, the dishes are sad, and the less I'm afraid to expose, lime water. How to be? Please advise.

My pills, but I also fall asleep with salt and rinse aid. Salt, maybe I'm afraid for the ionic,

So that's the answer.)) You are afraid for the "ionnik" (I don't know why), while sacrificing your dishes. But only soft water can not do so many troubles - either too alkaline tablets are still in use, or a high washing temperature, or both.

You can hardly help the dishes now, you will have to use it like this.) Our water is the same as yours (that is, taken on the surface of the glass with a lime film), but I do not use rinse aid at all, putting the sink overnight, and I can use a pack of salt several years or live without her at all, until cock will not bite a whitish coating will not begin to appear on the dishes. Then I go and buy.

[Jenealis]

Jenealis, clean your machine - buy a dishwasher cleaner. The finish is a good cleaner.And I don't like pills, they are almost all 3 in 1, as a result, the quality of washing is worse. I use powder detergents and rinse separately. I also have Bosch for 10 years, as soon as it begins to give out stains, a cleaner and at the maximum temperature.
Good luck to you !

as soon as it starts to give out streaks, the cleaner and at the maximum temperature.

And where do the divorces go? This is the degradation of glass that has already occurred.

[Bijou]

Bijou, Lena, I have no dark dishes. I love clear glass. And stains are very clearly visible on it when the machine needs cleaning. and glass degradation means the washing mode is incorrectly selected, then only delicate washing.
The machine is cleaned without dishes ...

And the stains are very clearly visible on it

"Gasoline" multi-colored?

"Gasoline" multi-colored?

This can be from an excess of rinse aid. But, in order to find out the cause of these stains, you must first clean the car, and then select detergents for your water. When the boiled water forms a film, we first clean the kettle, and then we look at which water is best suited - bottled, filtered or live.

[Jouravl]

Jouravl, it's hard to talk to you ...))
What does this have to do with the scale in the kettle and bottled water? When it comes only to "petrol stains" on the glass.
This is the kind, if I understand correctly:


And they appear only from softened water and an excess of alkalis in the washing chamber. And the temperature only accelerates / aggravates the process.

The person whose plate is in the photo moved to another area of ​​the city with softer water and ended up with such a picture. The glass shatters. Some plates are exposed only to this kind of interference, other dishes can acquire a whitish coating or even a distinct roughness - the glass particles have already peeled off and flew away.

What does car wash have to do with all of the above? This is, of course, not a superfluous matter, but they are not asking about that.

Jenealis, and pills, by chance, are not an all-in-one finish?

I use powder detergents and rinse separately.

Light up Nadia !!!
I only use it for a year and buy Freken Bock.
I would be grateful if you share the info

[Bijulichka]

Taak, Bijulichka, prick, than Finish all-in-one is bad? I have it now ... completely bad?
And, by the way, one wine glass has slightly dimmed along the rim.

[m0use]

m0use, Mouse, yes, excellent pills! They rip everything off for one or two.) I always have for especially neglected cases.)) But the house is full of glass, and with it after the Finish sometimes Such is the bullshit in the photo above. Either something in the composition of the water provokes, or I don't know what.

And from it not only the glass deteriorates, I sometimes even have a rainbow on stainless pots.)) But pots do not care, there it is treated in a second (and if it is not treated, it will go away by itself), but glass is a pity. In principle, all washing it will destroy it sooner or later, but I would like it later.

Yeah, clear, understandable. Then I, too, will go hiding mine "until a special occasion", and for every day I'll get it easier. And about the glass, I will remember thanks!

[m0use]

m0use, oh well .. If you have no problems with him, then okay, it's not necessary to change it.
Now I was trying to find a photo on Trunk, I remember exactly that there was an uncle from St. Petersburg with Luminark - in the photo there are several of their deep smoky plates completely of purple shades. The spectacle is brilliance.)) But I don't remember the detergents, it was a long time ago.

And nevertheless, a lot of people wash with Finish and everything seems to be fine.

[Kokoschka]

Light up Nadia !!!
I only use it for a year and buy Freken Bock.
I would be grateful if you share the info

Kokoschka, Lilya, I use the entire finish complex, occasionally somat. Separately powder, separately softener, separately rinse aid. I adhere to the actual recommendations of the manufacturer, when buying there were stickers on the machines themselves. I have Bosch in Moscow and Siemens outside the city. One works 10 years, the other 14 years without repairs!
I do not like the tablets, they do not dissolve completely, the washing quality is worse. Here I myself can adjust the amount of the product, depending on the dishes, the degree of soiling. etc.
Lilya, I can’t say anything about Miss Bok, didn’t use it.
The Finish gel appeared, I also do not use it, since all machines, including washing machines, released in 2000 are designed for powder products.

[Lena]

Lena, so I understand correctly that I need to reduce the salt and remove the rinse aid completely? My okeevskie tablets, they wash perfectly. And the powder was somat, but I smell it Hope, I clean the machine regularly, this does not eliminate the problem. The temperature of my machine gives 65 no more, but I don't like the eco mode at all, it does not wash.
That is, these stains can not be removed?

[Jenealis]

Jenealis
You can try to wipe these stains off by hand - this is a slight damage to the surface layer, sometimes it is enough to rub it well, as the surface is "polished" and this motley shine disappears a little. But this is hearsay, I have not tried it. More precisely, I know in advance that dishwashing chemicals will sooner or later come back to haunt the dishes, so I am very tolerant - well, it’s dimmed or bloomed, so so be it .. I have dear plates Luminark, and there are Turkish copies of them. They are already old, they are definitely more than ten years old. And for 8-9 years they are washed in the dishwasher. Their appearance is rather sad - they became dull-rough, as if they were rubbed with sand.) They almost did not bloom, they immediately began to grow cloudy. And the real Luminark (it is thicker and darker) - that one, yes, suffers from rainbow specks more. But I am on hot programs, I can even live at 65-75 for a long time.

I will not say about the rinse aid - if it suits you, then why not? The fact that I do not use it myself does not mean anything, in my conditions it suits me - for several years I suffered from foam in a pan under the tap until I removed it completely. Therefore, I think that he was to blame.) Plus, in the pills, he still exists at least in some quantities, I'm not in a hurry to dry, so I don't bother.

And what rigidity is set in the car? Do you often add salt? I think that in our water with tablets it is not necessary to set it above the middle, so, about 3-4 to hold it. And on separate ones - increase to 5-6. And look at the circumstances. If it is not enough, then there will be a whitish coating on the dishes, which is rubbed off and washed.
,

[Jouravl]

JouravlThank you Nadia. I have Bosch.
I'll try with powder too.
Freken bock is written by the manufacturer Germany. there was also France.

I don’t know if this is right. Sometimes I turn on a short wash of 33 minutes without funds. but Finish salt is poured. Washes very well. This is when the dishes are not greasy and their half load.

[Lily]

Lily, I also often use the quick wash program or I only have a program for the upper basket, but I am with powder.
If it washes well in your case, by the way, you have to try, then great!

there was an uncle from St. Petersburg with Luminark - in the photo there are several of their deep smoky plates all of purple hues. The spectacle is brilliance.))

I am plagued by vague doubts that this is not so much connected with detergents, but with the composition of what exactly the plates are made of. Because such iridescent stains do not appear on ordinary glass.

If it washes well in your case, by the way, you need to try, then great

Let's try Nadya, then you will write

I am plagued by vague doubts that this is not so much connected with detergents, but with the composition of what exactly the plates are made of. Because such iridescent stains do not appear on ordinary glass.

Why not? Appears, of course.

Is the glass here in the photo ordinary or not?



Hence: 🔗

That the stability of glass directly depends on its composition is a correct idea. Therefore, it is advised to ensure that the manufacturer allows washing in the dishwasher. And this is not a guarantee, alas. ((

Glass is capable of changing (“weathering”) under the influence of the atmosphere, moisture, or chemicals. The chemical stability (or resistance) of glass depends on its properties (and therefore on its composition), the nature of the reagents and the conditions under which they act on the glass.

When glass interacts with moisture and acids, hydrolysis of soluble silicates, alkali metals occurs with the formation of hydroxides and silicic acid gel

Ј2Si03 + H20; 2ROH + Si02 (gel).

Hydrates of alkali metal oxides then react with carbon dioxide in the air

2ROH + C02 J R2C03 + H20.

The reaction products, in turn, dissolve in the moisture acting on the swelling and form an alkaline solution. If the surface of the product is open and is freely washed by water, then the alkaline solution flows from it. As a result, the surface layer of glass is depleted in alkali - leached out. A film of silicic acid gel is created on it, which thickens and hardens over time, protecting the glass from further hydrolysis. Under these conditions, glass leaching gradually slows down.

With prolonged exposure to alkaline solutions on the glass surface (for example, when glass packed in boxes is laid with raw shavings), alkalis first dissolve the protective silica film, and then interact with the glass itself. First, white spots appear on the surface, then deeper damage. The resulting plaque of dissolution products flakes off in the form of flakes. Contact glasses with a damaged surface can stick together and form a monolith.

A protective silica film does not form on borate or phosphate glasses, therefore, under the influence of certain reagents, they gradually dissolve.

Glass is the more chemically stable, the less it contains alkaline components that form readily hydrolysable alkaline silicates. Potassium silicates are most susceptible to hydrolysis, and lithium silicates least of all. However, mixed sodium-potassium glasses are more stable than pure sodium glasses.

Hence: 🔗

That is, even under the influence of pure water, the glass deteriorates, creating an alkaline solution from itself.) Old street glass really has a lot of rainbow stains and opacities. And there are also many complaints on the network that if water got into the stack of folded glasses and they were stored like that for some time, then these places have gasoline spots.

One lady complained that she left a wet rag with Shumanit on the glass ceramics and got a rainbow in this place. ((

I want to share: I bought powder for PMM in a joint venture of goods from Finland, the simplest thing that Finns do for Finns

🔗

I add literally half a teaspoon to the sink, the measuring spoon is very small left from the Japanese powder, that is also super-duper, but it has become painfully expensive
Finnish powder actually gives a completely different result, believe me, there is something to compare with ..
It is not so vigorous in smell, its meager dose is required, it washes perfectly
I also bought them a rinse aid in a pair, I recommend in general

[Katerina]

Katerina, Katya and the joint venture in your region?

[Lily]

Lily, yes from this site many cities organize joint ventures, I just looked
Surely your region also has a SPS website