Panasonic or Moulinex and - general questions of choice

Actually, like many others, I am faced with a dilemma - Panasonic, Delongi or Moulinenechka ... Truuuuudny choice
But least of all I gravitate towards the floss, having read about the light crust and the adjustment, IMHO, this is still not serious ...

You will program - take Delongy, no - Panasonic. Panasonic has better service (if you buy a new bucket or the mixer is lost).
Look what you like more outwardly, what your soul is in, then take it.

I advertise my new purchase - Panasonic SD 255
Although Delongy seems to be praised on the forum ...

Guys, here in Panasonic the lack of a window is embarrassing, everything is good, cool, but I would like to watch, what do you think?

Actually, like many others, I am faced with a dilemma - Panasonic, Delongi or Moulinenechka ... Truuuuudny choice
But least of all I gravitate towards the floss, having read about the light crust and the adjustment, IMHO, this is still not serious ...

This question was asked 10 times on the site, do you think they will tell you something new, secret?
And about the window, so open and watch, in the first days you will stand above the window (I want to say that not everything is clearly visible in it) IMHO., Then you will open it anyway, it is better to see

I have a Hitachi 303, I have been using it for only 5 months, I'm happy, but if I bought it now, I would have taken the programmable one.
By the way, no one knows where you can buy or order a bucket for Hitachi?

By the way, I think that for complete satisfaction it would be necessary to make a window in Panasonic in order to open the stove as little as possible. But, in principle, if you choose between quality and a window ... Think for yourself, especially since it will not be difficult to look into Panasonic.
And yet, even if, having a window, you see that something is wrong with the kolobok, you still have to open the stove to deal with the disgrace!

I, too, faced a choice, I did not sleep at night ... But then I made up my mind and bought RANASONIK 255.
I baked my first bread yesterday. Very tasty!
He fed the whole family.
I'm trying to bake French bread tomorrow.
and the window is not needed at all, I think ...

In Panasonic, under the lid is a dispenser for all kinds of additives.
I think it's better than a window.

do you think they will tell you something new, secret?

but what if

Seriously though, for me the problem of choice is really a PROBLEM, there really is no escape. In fact, everything is complicated by the fact that in general I am not at ease with yeast dough, I have a very vague idea of ​​how it is done, that is, I once tried to do it, but it turned out badly, since then I don’t undertake, let alone more, the baking process is a mystery to me, so I don't know what will be useful to me in the future. If you follow the logic, then I shouldn't bother with programming, because it's a kettle, but I love and master the technique quickly and successfully, as a rule, that's why I might get carried away with creativity. Everything is fine in delongue, but service problems confuse, or maybe there is no problem at all, at least for Moscow, what do you think?

I have a Hitachi 303, I have been using it for only 5 months, I'm happy, but if I bought it now, I would have taken the programmable one.

Why, what is missing?

And yet, I correctly understood that there is only one programmable oven in nature - the notorious 125 Delongue?

Everything is fine in delongue, but service problems confuse, or maybe there is no problem at all, at least for Moscow, what do you think?

And you call the service, ask about the app. parts for a bread machine and so on. You may not need service at all.

Now I also read that the delongue has a bad non-stick coating of the bucket, it scratches even from dry raisins and crumbs, but a quality thing, by definition, cannot have this, IMHO.

Now I also read that the delongue has a bad non-stick coating of the bucket, it scratches even from dry raisins and crumbs, but a quality thing, by definition, cannot have this, IMHO.

In fact, all models have a bucket scratched from dry seeds and nuts. The owners of any bread machine will tell you this. There is nothing particularly horrible about that. At least it doesn't affect the quality of baking. I have been baking bread for a year and I am happy.

I have a Panasonic-207, I bought it for a long time. A large loaf of 900 grams is enough for me. I usually bake an average one.

If I were buying it now, then definitely Panasonic-255, I like the technique of this company. Firstly, there is a dispenser, and secondly, there are several programs that are not in 207. But I am not going to change my favorite 207, it works like a watch.

but what if

Seriously though, for me the problem of choice is really a PROBLEM, there really is no escape. In fact, everything is complicated by the fact that in general I am not at ease with yeast dough, I have a very vague idea of ​​how it is done, that is, I once tried to do it, but it turned out badly, since then I don’t undertake, let alone more, the baking process is a mystery to me, so I don't know what will be useful to me in the future.

The first and last time I baked cakes from yeast dough, the dough ran away safely under the washing machine (I completely removed it from there only after buying a new machine after a few years, I found the warmest place in the apartment by putting the bowl on a vibrating heating pad)
Now I (not alone, of course) bake great bread and rolls, and in general everything that is baked. For the same purpose, I still have a slow cooker, for a different type of pastries.
So there is nothing to suffer, buy and that's it!

Why, what is missing?

And yet, I correctly understood that there is only one programmable oven in nature - the notorious 125 Delongue?

Sometimes I want to experiment, somewhere to speed up the process, somewhere to lengthen. Although, maybe this is superfluous.
And the bucket was scratched with nuts.

Now I also read that the delongue has a bad non-stick coating of the bucket, it scratches even from dry raisins and crumbs, but a quality thing, by definition, cannot have this, IMHO.

As Kosha writes, buckets are scratched by everyone. And it does not depend on the company. Maybe the owners themselves should be more careful with their equipment, but in some cases there is no way out. After all, when the kolobok has already formed and rush, for example, nuts, they will still, for some time, pound on the walls, so you will get the result. Maybe not all at once, but it will still be damaged over time. I didn’t do anything SUCH in the multicooker either. She was afraid to breathe on her and did not even allow anyone to put ready-made food. And still, two scratches appeared from somewhere. You can't insure yourself against this.

I would choose, at the moment, Delongy 125. I like it in all respects (except for appearance) more than Panasonic 255. They have no more competitors. True, if it were not for problems with setting up baking from the company, I would also consider Moulinex 5000, but their adjusting screw ... which is knocked down for almost everyone, is very annoying. Yes, and after a few months of use, my 3000 got into the service for 2 months (it also spoils the attitude towards the company), although now it bakes great.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Yes, it's an amazing thing, why not make a really good coating that will withstand the technology, because there are some, for example, I have fluorocarbon in my thermo-pot, it is very durable, in short, the manufacturers have options, but for some reason they don't.
With large household appliances it is not an example easier to decide, if the refrigerator, then for example Liebherr, if the stove, then combustion, well, at least in these manufacturers I am sure and the models are thought out to the smallest detail, but small appliances turn out that everything is sinful of flaws ...

I believe the manufacturer does not want us to use one HP for 10 or 20 years! When we understand that the thing is good and necessary, and several new models have already appeared, do not change it to a newer one if it works well ... This is where something should be scratched, unscrewed, as if hinting "it's time to buy a new one ".

As for the scratches on the bucket, I console myself with the following: when it seems to me that it looks indecent, I'll just replace it in the service.

As for the scratches on the bucket, I console myself with the following: when it seems to me that it looks indecent, I'll just replace it in the service.

That's right, the thought is logical, but a couple of questions follow from it:
1. And what is changed even after the warranty period has expired?
2. And yet, people who have delongues living in Moscow, you communicated with the service, how do you like it? (I will call, of course, there, I will ask, but I would like to hear the opinion of people who are faced with this)

And in the service you can buy everything for money. And, by the way, the bucket has nothing to do with warranty repair.

Trust me, the non-stick coating is not the most important part of the bread machine.
I have a friend ... - has been using a Hitachi bread maker for many years (she remembers Gorbachev, when she was still young).
A couple of years ago I saw his bucket, I did not notice traces of Teflon (and whether it was at the beginning is unknown). On it, he bakes only simple bread, without milk and eggs, adds more than 3 tbsp. tablespoons of vegetable oil, and before removing the loaf, separates it from the walls with a wooden spatula.
The funny thing is, he's not going to buy a new one.

No, not everything can be bought in the service. I have already described the situation when from the Panasonic service we were sent to the radio market. I was very surprised and outraged by this. Of course, we did not find exactly such a detail, we bought it with worse quality and a different size. I had to cut it to size. It's bad when the service falls to the market level!

It was the official Panasonic service or the "hodgepodge" service - do they repair everything they bring?

Yes, official. "M. Video" at the "Varshavskaya" metro station. Before going there, my husband took a list of all services in Moscow from consultants at the Panasonic Exhibition and Convention Center on Gorbushka. The consultants told him that these details are everywhere and they will change everything without any problems. He immediately went there. And the service told him exactly the opposite, that there were no such parts and was sent to the market. It's good that we live in Moscow and the radio market is nearby. And if we lived in another city or at least in the suburbs? Probably would have spent several days looking for the right part.

[Yana]

Yana

Just curious, what kind of detail is this that the service does not have, but on the radio market, albeit not one to one, but is there?

And the case, it seems, was not a warranty, if the service did not take it for repair.
The cost of the repair, it can be assumed, is a penny (not a profitable job for the repairman) - that's why they refused, citing the lack of a part.

I already wrote, but I will repeat myself. This is an overlay for a microwave magnetron.

And in the service you can buy everything for money. And, by the way, the bucket has nothing to do with warranty repair.

Only if you delay the purchase for a long time, then this model of the bread machine can be removed from production and the right bucket will be difficult to find. We'll have to throw out the whole oven. You probably noticed that the lower part is different for all of them and a bucket from one stove most likely will not fit any other.

Trust me, the non-stick coating is not the most important part of the bread machine.

I readily believe it, thank you, but I'm still perplexed. In short, since there is no choice anyway, so I will not cycle on this, I will decide to ng and then I will tell you what we have acquired.

I already wrote, but I will repeat myself. This is an overlay for a microwave magnetron.

By the way, I also need one, otherwise, when I was cleaning the stove, I screwed it up, but it turns out they are sold, it's very good.

By the way, I also need one, otherwise, when I was cleaning the stove, I screwed it up, but it turns out they are sold, it's very good.

Oh! Tell me where this thing is located, otherwise I also like to clean everything. I’m afraid I’ll clean up before the repair.

Oh! Tell me where this thing is located, otherwise I also like to clean everything. I’m afraid I’ll clean up before the repair.

This, I think, is so rectangular on the side on the right.

[Why is the coating of the bread maker's bucket so "tender"?]

As long as the coating in my HP is in order, there is no damage, absolutely, this is because we use it carefully.

Why is the coating of the bread maker's bucket so "tender"?

We start from afar. Fluoroplastic (Teflon is a foreign synonym for the name of the same plastic) coating is chemically and biologically inert, has "anti-stick" (scientifically - "anti-adhesive") properties. Therefore, it is used in the chemical, food and "kitchen" business.

The quality and durability of the Teflon coating depends on:

- the thickness of the material on which it is applied;
- method of application;
- operating conditions.

And just the buckets of household bread makers are the cosmically most difficult object for applying Teflon coatings, because they:

- should be thin for minimum thermal inertia, and teflon adheres better to thick metal;

- they have a complex shape, which differs from the shape of the "body of revolution", which most often pans and pots have, therefore, the method of coating by "rolling with a roller", as the most reliable and hardening, cannot be applied to them - therefore Teflon is sprayed. And such a coating is less durable, porous, soft.

-they are subjected to intense mechanical stress - friction during kneading, scratching with dry ingredients and dry crust of bread.

Therefore, for us with you, there are two options left: either to take care of the coating, or to often replace the buckets (or stoves) with new ones. The first option is more correct from the point of view of environmental protection.

More details about coatings are in the article. There are some inaccuracies and even some nonsense, but it gives the basic information.

And in my bucket cover (Moulinex 3000) there are no damages yet. It seems that I actively put raisins and nuts and all kinds of candied fruits. Still alright.

Alen Delonghi, thank you very much, now a lot is becoming clear, which means that if I reason correctly, then all HP will have approximately the same coating in terms of strength, right?
And yet, one more question, it is of a general order, regarding teflon coatings, is it not harmful to use devices with already scratched, damaged coatings? After all, at home there are many different dishes with similar coatings, and of course, if a scratch occurs, then we do not throw it away, but continue to use it, as in this case, is the complete inertness of Teflon preserved?

Alen Delonghi, thank you very much, now a lot is becoming clear, which means that if I reason correctly, then all HP will have approximately the same coating in terms of strength, right?
And yet, one more question, it is of a general order, regarding teflon coatings, is it not harmful to use devices with already scratched, damaged coatings? After all, at home there are many different dishes with similar coatings, and of course, if a scratch occurs, then we do not throw it away, but continue to use it, as in this case, is the complete inertness of Teflon preserved?

Teflon or, in our opinion, fluoroplastic is the main coating material. By itself, even if pieces of it get inside, it will not bring any harm - they even make artificial blood vessels from it and so on. It is theoretically possible to use cookware with a damaged coating, although now there are many reports about the dangers of aluminum cookware, because when cooking acidic dishes, aluminum turns into food. As for the "peeled" bucket for a bread machine, IMHO it is quite possible to use it (if the bread is not "baked", does not stick to it), but just not for making jam - there are many acids in fruits that dissolve the aluminum oxide film, and then aluminum itself, which we safely eat in the form of organic aluminum salts. There is no certainty about their health benefits.

Thank you again, your answers are pleasing with their thoroughness and validity. Now there is one less problem when choosing, and one less headache in life.

Oh, this Teflon ... How many times has its damage been discussed ... So what to do? Do not throw out the thing after the first scratch, be it a bread maker, slow cooker, frying pan or saucepan. We'll have to put up. Our grandmothers generally cooked in aluminum saucepans (I remember from my childhood), but they are still being processed and someone is buying them. Looks like it's not so scary since they are still being released.

I stopped at two models panasonic 255 and moulinex 5002 (by the way, what kind of model 5004?) Size 1.25 or 1.5, I think it's not such a big difference. Just can you tell by a couple of advantages of Panasonic over Moulinex and vice versa ?? Please, see you tomorrow, you need to decide.
As far as I understand
Panasonic
+ program for automatic addition of ingredients (with some difficult to pronounce name)
+ the number of ready-made recipes is much higher
Moulinex
+ large capacity
+ viewing window

Panasonic
+ program for automatic addition of ingredients (with some difficult to pronounce name)
+ the number of ready-made recipes is much higher

I am the owner (and a big fan) of Panasonic, but to be honest, I did not really understand the listed advantages.

1 is this apparently a dispenser? (i.e. a box that opens at the right time and adds nuts, seeds, etc. to the dough). This really is. It is convenient if the owner of the HP loves bread with all sorts of additives.

2 - the recipes in the instruction book are really good, I can't say (because I don't know) there are more of them than in another oven. BUT recipes for stoves are UNIVERSAL. Whichever stove you choose, you can print a selection of recipes as an "addition" to the gift (see the link to the "recipes" section in the left column). So the "number of recipes" I think should not be considered a significant factor when choosing a stove.

*** I personally like Panasonic for its reliability, excellent quality of bread and dough (even the coolest). I bought 255 stove already twice, both (TTT) work perfectly in daily mode.

The owners of Mulineshek will probably write to you about Mulineshki,
but both those and these ovens bake well and have their fans.

Have a good choice

[TWO]

I stopped at two models panasonic 255 and moulinex 5002 (by the way, what kind of model 5004?) Size 1.25 or 1.5, I think it's not such a big difference. Just can you tell by a couple of advantages of Panasonic over Moulinex and vice versa ?? Please, see you tomorrow, you need to decide.
As far as I understand
Panasonic
+ program for automatic addition of ingredients (with some difficult to pronounce name)
+ the number of ready-made recipes is much higher
Moulinex
+ large capacity
+ viewing window

There are many more advantages in Moulinex 5002, wow - TWO large kneading blades, which provides a very high quality product, a powerful 860 watt motor, with all this it is very compact and has a modern design. It has 14 programs.

In addition, in any mode of bread preparation ("basic", "French", "baking", etc.) it is ALWAYS possible to choose the color of the crust (3 options) and the weight of the loaf (also 3 options - 750 g, 1 kg, 1.5 kg). By the way, this is not available in all models from other manufacturers. In addition, (which I personally really like) a loaf is obtained in the traditional "brick" shape (see the photo of "French" bread).

The dough turns out to be super any - for pizza and dumplings, etc., thanks to two blades and a powerful motor, and in the "cake" mode, it does not bake immediately, like the vast majority of other models, and for the first 10 minutes it intensively mixes a thick and liquid "blank" ".

Recipes - a whole album-book of original recipes plus, as the Village Stove correctly noted, "recipes for UNIVERSAL ovens."

But in general, the choice must be made YOURSELF ... at one time I did not use advice before buying, but quietly studied the information and analyzed.

P.S.As for your question about the Moulinex 5004 model, I will say that this model makes it possible to bake 4 classic French baguettes at once.

Good thing ...

P.S. As for your question about the Moulinex 5004 model, I will say that this model allows you to bake 4 classic French baguettes at once.
Good thing ...

Owl, looked at the link 5004, baguettes of course EVER!
And you do not specify - the "whatnot" for baguettes is placed directly in the CP for baking? Or is it like an additional accessory for baking in the oven?

OFF -
I began to read the instructions about baguettes there, the recipes are all very interesting, I was especially impressed by "Bread of the French Revolution", I will definitely try to do it.
Baguettes are certainly awful!

[Owl, did you not by chance cook "bread without a crust"?]

More off (topic author, sorry for deviating from the topic)

Owl, did you not by chance cook "bread without a crust"? What's the point? Like the crust is very thin and tender?
I cut off the crusts for sandwiches from an ordinary white one, such a pity it takes, and if the crust was thinner then I wouldn't have to cut it off ...
I will try it.

OFF -
I began to read the instructions about baguettes there, the recipes are all very interesting, I was especially impressed by "Bread of the French Revolution", I will definitely try to do it.
Baguettes are certainly awful!

Glad to have given you a few pleasant minutes. This "whatnot" is really placed right in the HP for baking. That is, you can bake bread as usual, and then you want baguettes - bam! and inserted a "whatnot" into the bread maker.

P.S. And I just admired the baguettes, but I look at things soberly - I would never bother: you still have to be able to mold these baguettes! How much time and effort!

[Owl, did you not by chance cook "bread without a crust"?]

Owl, did you not by chance cook "bread without a crust"? What's the point? Like the crust is very thin and tender?
I cut off the crusts for sandwiches from an ordinary white one, such a pity it takes, and if the crust was thinner then I wouldn't have to cut it off ...
I will try it.

No, I didn’t make "bread without a crust", because since childhood I have loved the crust in bread most of all. But I'm also interested - this recipe is in the book that was attached to the x / n.

If you want, I will do it - then I will report here. Where did you see this recipe? Somewhere on the site? There's a French site full of recipes in English!

P.S. And I just admired the baguettes, but I look at things soberly - I would never bother: you still have to be able to mold these baguettes! How much time and effort!

Agree.
But the recipes in the little book there interested me very much. I already "wrote off the words" for myself

No, I didn’t make "bread without a crust", because since childhood I have loved the crust in bread most of all. But I'm also interested - this recipe is in the book that was attached to the x / n.

If you want, I will do it - then I will report here. Where did you see this recipe? Somewhere on the site? There's a French site full of recipes in English!

I myself also VERY respect the crust, but now I have a boom of sandwiches in my family

I now have an ordinary white one in the morning, as soon as we finish eating it, I will immediately "without a crust" try.