Question to Admin: the bread did not work out again, what could be the reason?

Hands and somewhere for a minute))), a little?

few?

Yeah
For a good development of gluten, the kneader must be twisted for at least 10 minutes, and better and longer. Bread makers knead for about half an hour in several passes.
And with your hands ...
But there is a way out and you already know it, by the way. This is bread without kneading. There gluten develops due to prolonged cold fermentation and you don't need to knead anything and the bread is very decent. True, in Soviet times I did not eat this, it turns out more like a rustic, rough bread, but the attempt is not torture - suddenly I like it.
I baked this:
Artisanal bread without kneading



I also found recipes
Rustic molded wheat bread (without kneading)
Quick wheat bread without kneading
Bread without kneading in 13 hours (in the oven)

In general, during these couple of weeks (and in my life) I made 4 breads using different technologies.
1. In a slow cooker (I didn’t know before that you can bake bread there). The recipe is the simplest, without sponge. I mixed everything and the bun in a bowl for 2 hours at about 30 °, rose twice (this is like fermentation), then kneaded with your hands for a couple of minutes and into the bowl for a "pre-start" proofing (then two hours on "yogurt" to the top (5L bowl) and then "oven" mode (130 °) for 1 hour, overturn and another 40 minutes.
The total weight of the bread was about 900 grams (there is a photo).
The taste is, in principle, better than the store, but what are the disadvantages.
The need for a revolution, the bread is baked exactly to the middle of the "pancake" and the difference between these two layers is clearly visible. The structure of the lateral crust is brown, and the top and bottom are slightly burnt and roughly rough, the crust itself is hard, and if then it seems to be trying to moisturize in the bag, then it becomes rubbery and nothing with my teeth. The pulp is small-pore in principle, but when lying down it crumbled in large pieces when cut with a knife. And I probably put a lot of vegetable oil in the dough, the bread itself was somehow greasy on the outside (I went too far with the coating of the tank) and it seemed like a crumb.
On the trail. made another day (I'll write later)

the crust itself is hard, and if then in the bag, as it were, I tried to moisten it, then it becomes rubbery and nothing with my teeth. The pulp is small-pore in principle, but when lying down it crumbled in large pieces when cut with a knife.

The result of insufficient gluten development is that the bread is poorly mixed.
And I never baked bread in a slow cooker, I can not advise anything

[SvetaI]

The second is with errors.
The first thing I didn't like was the initial imperfection and the need for a coup. I reasoned like this, if the first one is baked to the middle of the tank multi, then if I make a cake two times lower, then it will be baked all over ... in naivety))), figs, strictly in the middle of the reduced cake !!! I reduced the baking temperature, I thought that for 2 !! it will be baked all over for an hour, no. I reduced the amount of butter and sugar ... In general, it turned out to be a swarthy thick pancake), the skin is thick and chewy (rubber became over time) and pressed robustly, as thick as a sleeping box. The crumb is dense, hammered. Despite the size, the weight is about 600 gr.
The third attempt was a day later, I was a bit upset and I decided to use it. Eldukhovku and get confused with the dough, the easiest to start ...



The third bread was baked in the oven. On a thick dough, but did not have the patience to wait and blunt and weathered (not covered with a film, but only with a towel) and 1.4 gr. yeast without sugar is clearly not enough for 4 hours.
I still consider this bread to be the most successful both in appearance and taste (no photo, quickly ate)
Yesterday's is an attempt to use a liquid dough, it is the fastest (relatively) and the use of all the water in it according to the recipe, it remains only to add dry - flour with salt.And adjust the amount of dough to fit the shape (here I guessed 400g of flour, and not 500 for a 1.5-liter mold)




In the photo, the first bread in a slow cooker




And this is the second - dwarf)



In general, girls, you have all the infa, a picture and a step-by-step "diary" of everything that I have heaped up) What is wrong, what would you do, change ... I recently bought a baket (3 or five I do not remember) kg in atb. rye flour, I generally like gray bread, but I know that it is not so easy to prepare it and so far I am afraid to even mix it without experience.
I read the recipe without mixing, everything is mixed at once with a slightly large amount of water (I counted) and in a warm place overnight.
I’m thinking, what would not wash the dishes, what if the dough was mixed directly in a large bag and put into the multicooker bowl with it? You can add some water, let it float like in a bathhouse and the mode at 30 ° C in a warm kitchen does not take much electricity, well, the ten will turn on for half a minute and so on in an hour or two ... and whether to tie the bag or not, you need to breathed, in the multicooker chamber it is more or less airtight, you can cover the steam hole and the water that washes the package will create moisture and heat more evenly.



SvetaI, ATP for links to recipes, where many pages have not read everything, my head swells)
What I realized is that the complete elimination of kneading increases the porosity of the dough, large holes, cavities ... someone likes it, I don't really like it. The bread is light in weight, compressed almost to the stop of the fingers and is all "empty". I don't like those like the bread of the 90s, when cooperators flourished, making their own bread in underground bakeries, with a fluff, probably like a fluff, but there is nothing to eat. It takes a day and it all crumbles to pieces, and you can't cut it off, you can't smear it (((
I want a plump one, with uniform small "honeycombs", not too dry, moderately wet, but it was not necessary to sculpt "chess" from it over time.
Are there such simple recipes?



SvetaI, put on your first link the dough "artisanal without kneading" (what comes in the refrigerator), after reading all 23 pages of the recipe discussion, tomorrow afternoon I will make a new bread.
Will it be stored on a glazed loggia? How much is there on the bottom shelf of the refrigerator? And in general, such a dough is not afraid of possible temperature fluctuations, how does it behave? Yeast won't die? I closed the bowl with such a glass lid from a casserole with a special maalenka. hole, film is not needed?

I personally had a problem in the oven for a very long time

bought a Panasonic SD-2500 as a gift for my mother, she experiments a little with different recipes, but she just cannot achieve the structure of bread as it was in the USSR, although the mother-in-law makes it in a primitive oven with manual kneading just like that;
while she has no recipe, she always does it "by eye". the main difference is compressed yeast (and my mother's - dry - although I tried a variety of manufacturers).
in Panasonic SD-2500 bread is always obtained with a fine structure, it crumbles even if it comes out harder. and in the mother-in-law's oven - with a large structure, the crumb seems to be more plastic, stretches - almost as it was in Soviet times.
what's the secret?

almost like it was in Soviet times.
what's the secret?

The secret is that bread at bakeries and bakeries is baked in molds in ovens, and in a "free flight" under the supervision of technologists, where all stages from kneading to baking are monitored.

There is no such thing in a bread maker. Dough and baking are within the strict limits of the program, all stages are within a strict time interval, without the wish of the dough itself for the duration of each cycle.

The home oven is similar to the ovens of bakeries, where you can give the dough the opportunity to command the process, and the hostess can only fulfill these wishes, hence the quality of the bread itself is for the better.

There is a wonderful section on bread CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" including MASTER CLASSES for Dough Kneading (BOXES)

There is a separate topic on the PANASONIK x / stove Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502, SD-2510, SD-2511, SD-2512 ... (4)

thank you for your prompt reply; in that separate topic, I also asked, and even found there a recipe with "live" yeast, where in the photo the result looks as it should.As I understand it, it is necessary at least to abandon fully automatic programs in any bread maker and work in the most manual mode, then you can count on the desired result. and we also want to buy a stove for ourselves, but we would like the shape to be as close as possible to the Soviet "bricks", that is, longer and narrower, and not cube-like. there is such an option: Liberton LBM-8211
criticize, please.

As I understand it, it is necessary at least to abandon fully automatic programs in any bread maker and work in the most manual mode, then you can count on the desired result.

You do NOT understand correctly. First of all, you need to evaluate your conditions and capabilities: is there a possibility of nursing bread for many hours, or does the rhythm of life do not allow. Yes, the framework of automatic programs in bread makers is very rigid, but there are quite a few ways to get the desired result on an automatic program using various techniques and additives, while freeing up a lot of time.

In any case, you need to sacrifice something.

For "criticism" we have a section Selection and operation of bread makers

using various techniques and supplements

that is - you need to "smoke" the forum for a very long time and often to find these tricks and supplements, and to conduct many experiments in order to invent your bicycle recipe; and yet somehow do not miss the choice of the model of the furnace. there was an option to buy a DeLongie 2-in-1 electric oven + bakery, but it is no longer sold anywhere. Then I thought to buy a separate prof. a dough mixer and a separate electric oven with maximum functionality, but it turns out to be much higher than the budget. Then I chose from programmable bread makers, but they are either expensive (sana) or short-lived (gorenje); then I stopped at the fact that for a start, the simplest model would be enough, and to the more prestigious it is still necessary to "grow", according to the characteristics Liberton LBM-8211 would fit, went to look here on the forum, but no one has it; reviews - only on the seller's website. that is - not a mass, not a running model = high risks of not getting a result from the word "in general"?

high risks of not getting results from the word "at all"?

Yeah. I spent two years trying to get close to a brick in a bread maker; and in the oven I bake it at once. I didn't succeed, I stopped these dances with tambourines. I want a brick - I take out a mold and bake in the oven. I don’t want a brick - I take out the mold and bake in the oven) I don’t want to take out the mold - I don’t get the mold and bake in the oven

I bought a Molinex bread machine, but for some reason the bread does not turn out very well. most likely the recipes are bad in the instructions
husband will be glad

now I will study with your recommendations and recipes

To health

Baking bread here CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" MASTER CLASSES FOR KNITTING THE Dough (BOXES)

Operation of the bread maker here Moulinex bread maker

Is there a difference between these yeast? (R and B) I always take the first ones I get in the store, I don't look at which ...

There is a difference. Some are normal for a long cycle for standard baked goods, others for quick bread. There is also yeast for pastry, for pizza, and so on ...

Read about yeast here CONTENTS OF THE INGREDIENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR BREAD SECTION

A big hello to everyone. I get to know the territory of rye baked goods unknown to me, and I completely got lost.
Help with questions.
1. How is excess moisture manifested in rye bread on crumb?
2. How to choose the best consistency for very rye dough, hearth and mold? I look at the photo, but in practice the rye is always the same. As soon as it starts to stick, so is porridge all the time. Photo does not help me. Can you give verbal signs?

3. Could it be that the thermometer shows 98 degrees in the middle of rye bread, but it is still underbaked?

[Lena]

Lena, here is a recipe for almost rye bread, taking into account a large amount of rye sourdough
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ic=3734.0

Kneading in a Kenwood combine, the dough is soft like here
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ic=4235.0

Crumb wet-dry without excess liquid inside.I never make "liquid" dough for rye bread, only soft, softer than for wheat bread.



I have no other photos and recipes, the recipes are already old, so I cannot show something fresh

Here's another description of the recipe:
🔗

[Tanya]

Tanya, actually me Gingerbread man made from wheat-rye flour (master class)
the consistency of the "state of plasticine" suits perfectly, I took this plasticine as a basis for all rye.
But one has only to step aside a little, try to soften the consistency for molded: the crumb turns out I don't even know how to describe it. Slightly sticky. If you press, it sticks together, but not totally, but straightens, but for a long time. Slightly viscous. In short, partially nasty)))))))))))
So I don’t understand. Either I pour water, or I do not bake, or it is norm and it must be done exactly tightly like plasticine or a very thick dough for an elastic dryish crumb.
It turns out that the hearth, that I do the mold the same way, and I mold with my hands the same way.

I took this plasticine as a basis for all rye.

And I get "plasticine" on the table, the horror sticks like it stretches for hands
But I sprinkle the table with flour, and lightly dust the dough with flour (you can see it in the photo) and try to roll it faster and put it in the mold.
You can't do anything, rye flour has such a property, it sticks to your hands and smears like plasticine.

For best results, match the consistency of the dough to your taste. But the steeper the dough, the denser the bread will be. And the liquid may not bake, it will remain wet inside. The middle is needed.

Admin, and I'm tired of measuring on the scales. I'm used to cups and spoons.
Moreover, I use one cup and already selected spoons.
I baked a lot of different breads (and leavened), but mostly rye,
spelled or whole flour. White is only for baking.
And there was never a bummer.
And then I took a recipe from the Say7 website - Bread without problems.
And the result is a piece of clay. Did exactly according to the scales and the recipe.
I was even upset.

[Anya]

Anya, I do not see the difference in what units to make up the bread recipe. Even with cans!
In any case, you should track the correctness of the match between flour and liquid during kneading.

I printed this table for myself The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes just as a memory check so you don't forget the APPROXIMATE amount of flour and liquid. I prefer the "flour in water" principle - the dough is guaranteed to turn out

And yesterday I got krakozyabra, how much I bake, but I don’t remember this

Flour Makfa premium 100 g
Semolina of hard varieties 100 g
Whole-ground wheat flour, Ryazanochka, 200 g
Pasta water 260ml
Yeast 1 tsp
Sugar 2 tbsp. l.
Sunflower oil 1 tbsp. l.
Basic mode in Panasonic

Ryazano took such a first time. The gingerbread man was correct.
I think maybe it's a draft, it's cool now. I usually put HP on the table, and this time on the windowsill

[solid]

It is advisable to also look at the crumb

As for me, the liquid is not enough, the dough turned out to be steep, which is why it bulges.
According to the recipe, only 400 grams of flour, but from this amount:
Semolina solid varieties 100 g
Flour coarse whole ground wheat Ryazanochka 200 g

And the liquid is only about 275-280 ml. Which is clearly not enough, since durum and whole flour require more liquid than just premium flour.
Yes, the bun was beautiful when kneaded. But, during resting and proofing, this heavy flour intensively absorbs the liquid, takes it all. Any flour absorbs liquid in different ways.
Hence the dense crumb in the end.

We follow the kneading, make the dough soft - but not liquid. We especially watch this after a long first pause of cotton, which is done so that the flour absorbs the liquid, the gluten starts working.

It is advisable to also look at the crumb

Here


Usually I always bake this kind of bread, only this time I replaced some of the flour with wholemeal

Hello everyone. Help, please, I am mastering the bread maker recently. Moulinex. I do everything to the gram, but the bread does not come out. I take dry yeast, everything is fine with the term.Someone did it with wet yeast. Sister came, did everything that I did, and she succeeded ((

and the bread does not come out.

And what happens?

did everything that I did, and she succeeded

Or 'Not all too', or mysticism.

I do everything to the gram, but the bread does not come out.

Because, you don't need to do everything "to the gram". You need to do as the dough itself needs to do, and maintain the flour-liquid balance.
To understand the reason, you need to see a photo of bread, crumb and see the dough recipe.

To help Contents of the section "Basics of kneading and baking" and especially the MASTER CLASSES for Dough Kneading (BOLS)

Admin, I'm sorry, please! I didn't find the technical section
where you can read about writing a recipe.
Every time I am about to write a recipe, it turns out
innovations and it is not recorded.
I inserted the first photo, but he asks for the last one and it is not inserted
through this line. Please show me where this section is, so that I can every time
read all the news.

Anya, I'll show you in stages:

1. Open in the MENU, for example, the section CULINARY RECIPES https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...7228d2c5f42b6f4b5d23c83#5

2. I select the section of the dish, the recipe for which I am going to place, for example BORSCHI - I click on this line and go to the recipes section for BORSCHI Borscht

3. At the top of the recipe table on the RIGHT there is a button (second from the right) NEW RECIPE - click on this button

4. ... and we get into the window where you need to place a new borscht recipe, for which we fill in all the lines-columns of the recipe form https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=postcookie;board=654.0

5. Insert all photos of the step-by-step preparation of the dish into the form (empty window). We take a photo from our computer, where the entrance will be, if you press the UPLOAD PHOTO button (under the ingredients) and then in the window that opens, select the SELECT FILE button. So, one photo at a time, we take them from the computer and insert them into the recipe in the right place during the description of the recipe.

6. On the FINAL PHOTO line, insert the photo from the computer that you want to make the final one. This can be any beautiful and informative photo of your dish, and which emphasizes the dignity of the dish. This photo is taken from the computer in the usual way, as for the entire recipe, but inserted into the "Final photo" line. This photo can be any in the order of placing them on the computer, and not the final (last) in the order of placing them on the computer or in the recipe on the site.

I hope I could explain

[Admin]

Admin, I have a problem with the recipe again.
I have only one photo and I put it at the beginning
recipe. No final photo and recipe fails.
And, if there is a final one, it can be done through any
to insert a photo hosting?

Admin, thanks! Happened! I realized that I had not entered the photo correctly.

Well, it finally happened! I'm happy for you!

Thank you! I'm glad myself.

[Rye bread "Without anything" (oven, bread machine, slow cooker) recipe from Gasha.]

Hello everyone!
Tanya help, bread does not want to be friends with me
Rye bread "Without anything" (oven, bread machine, slow cooker) recipe from Gasha.
🔗 This is his roof.
🔗
This is his barrel
🔗
And this is crumb.
I did everything according to the recipe, weighed it on a scale, smeared the bun for a long time, added Makfa wheat flour. HP Panasonic 257.
It's a shame to expose such photos, but I want beautiful and tasty bread.

This is the recipe for Gash's bread, for baking in the oven on the hearth:
Yeast 2 tsp
Rzh. peeled flour 400 g
Millet. flour 100 g
Semolina 50 g
Salt 1.75 tsp
Sugar brown 1 tbsp. l.
Rast. oil 2 tbsp. l.
Apple cider vinegar 1 tsp
Water (for baking in the oven) 420 ml

It should be noted that the dough for baking bread in the oven and in the oven differs in consistency. What is permissible for a manual oven is not suitable for an oven.
And even more so when the bread is RYE-WHEAT, as in this recipe.

In principle, Gasha's recipe is correct in terms of the number of ingredients, and is suitable for a cold oven.
You need to bake with one proofing. That is, immediately after kneading the dough, put it on one proofing and bake immediately.
You will have to practice a lot with rye dough, it does not give up immediately

Tanya thanks !!!

You will have to practice a lot with rye dough, it does not give up immediately

I already understood.