As the owner of 2 bread machines, expensive and cheap, I want to say -

"Investment" is a hint of how many stoves have passed through me? So the first one appeared 15 years ago, I think that for such a time period it is not much at all, especially since the two (Panasonic) now live together and work together.

May the dear be better! You can even compare the buckets in them - in cheap ones they are thin-walled, and in expensive ones they are 3 millimeters thick. And the quality of baking is much higher (many have noted here who had the opportunity to compare), another thing is that if you take a simple oven, then there the bread will seem the height of perfection.

Thank you so much! This is probably exactly what I wanted to hear. The scales again moved to Panas) It remains only to ask, what exactly is the higher quality of baking?

[And the baking quality is much higher]

You can even compare the buckets in them - in cheap ones they are thin-walled, and in expensive ones they are 3 millimeters thick. And the baking quality is much higher(many have noted here who had the opportunity to compare), another thing is that if you take a simple stove, then there bread will seem the height of perfection.

Please explain what you wanted to say. Where and why, in your opinion, are baked goods better?

[Should NOT be solved by the method]

"Investment" is a hint of how many stoves have passed through me?

No, of course, this is a joke. Simply, from my point of view, the "transition of the family" to homemade bread is NOT determined ONLY by the presence of a specific model of CP: people change (mature), change ("services" for use) of the CP model. After all, you did not buy the same model (because it simply does not exist). For example, "Mulya 3000" is not the same as "Mulya 5002" and they are both not the same as "Mulya 5004".
And my family was immediately "transferred" to homemade bread, from the first day of purchasing HP. It forces me to improve my craft. And, in principle, after a month of using the stove, I was already making ANY bread that "I like the recipe". And today in "my arsenal" there are many favorite breads both from the book of recipes for HP, and from the forum (special thanks to Admin and fugaska).

All this I mean is that HP is a specific household appliance (for example, unlike a refrigerator, washing machine, iron, mixer) and some problems that may arise with a particular model Should NOT be solved by the method: "Buy HP THIS (other) model". It may also happen that the "superficial" problem will go away, but a whole set of other "inconsistencies" will appear.

This is probably exactly what I wanted to hear. Libra has moved to Panas again)

Q.E.D. Usually a beginner "needs to hear" exactly what he needs "to hear" ...

You will run through the forum here, I do not remember where, but one friend gave information about 2000 pieces of defective Panas brought to the territory of the Russian Federation. It will be interesting for you, maybe later you will understand why almost every second participant advises you to sow the unit

[MYTH about Panasonic]

then you will understand why almost every second participant advises you to sow the unit

I'm trying to "discuss MYTH about Panasonic "For several weeks now. So I get only" cuffs and bumps. "Here I" really want "that the phrase" Panasonic is the best HP "did not even come close

a * panasonik - the most multivariable multicooker *? In my risovarka the casserole is thicker and in general it is more expensive than Ross. panasonic .. it means better

Q.E.D. Usually a beginner "needs to hear" exactly what he needs "to hear" ...

You will run through the forum here, I do not remember where, but one friend gave information about 2000 pieces of defective Panas brought to the territory of the Russian Federation.

I can just as well say about the batch of defective LG 3000 pcs and 1000 Kenwoods I personally saw the return of the marriage in the wholesale warehouse
Will you believe me? I think no! But I will bring a grain of doubt, right?

But I will bring a grain of doubt, right?

Of course, especially if it concerns NOT Panasonic stoves, Mr. sazalexter will add doubts to you, and so, by the way, will not apply to notice about:
- "outstanding" reliability of SOME HP brand (with reference to the poll of this forum);
- "cast bucket" (it is not known what "best" indicating);
- "temperature equalization" .....
- "high cost justifying itself" (however, it is not known what we overpay for)

What else can we add? Probably the phrase: "Your stove is not cheap either."

But in essence?

Guys, I do not understand the purpose of your conversations, if this topic continues in the same spirit (this one is better, this one is worse, and I don’t want to listen to this one, although I don’t have any of these models), the topic will be closed, about this I have already warned, but some people want to compete in eloquence.
I do not see any information content in these conversations.

Why argue? Maybe just everyone will tell what exactly he likes his HP. There is no need to compare, otherwise all the conversations boil down to the fact that all of you have foooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong?

Whoa - whoa! )
It is clear that everyone has a good device (otherwise they would have replaced it). I wrote in the first post that I would not like to buy several, I would like to enjoy using it and minimize the time spent with it, since work + awkward creation is involved in eating time. And a healthy worldview does not allow eating what is put into the store's bread ...
A confused newbie is again at a loss, and so she rode to work with the intention "right now, how will I order myself a Panasonic"))
I'm in Kiev, I hope the "defective" ones did not slip here ...
And the statistics were pleasing here ...

I would like to enjoy using it and minimize the time spent with her,

any modern bread maker meets these requirements, it does not depend on the price and name.

[I suggest "to compare HP"]

Confused newbie at a loss again

That's why I suggest "to compare HP" NOT by the method of pointing to specific manufacturers or personal preferences or "declare what is and not explain why it is necessary", but by the method of "all-round" consideration of individual elements of the stove structures, stove functions ... Then, in my opinion, the "confused newbie" will be able to imagine what the price of HP consists of. And decide for himself what he would like to pay for, and what he could save on.
Since winning in one thing, you will invariably lose in another (ce la vie)
So, "my method" (if the author of the topic considers my "interception" inappropriate. I apologize in advance, and then I will put my observations in a separate topic):

Here I tried to "discuss" temperature equalization function

I ask you not to consider the "mention" of Panasonic as a criticism of Panasonic - I just do not know of other stoves with such a function.

Very happy about you.
How do you like "my method" of comparison? Is it worth developing it, bringing it into a separate topic? or will it be uninteresting?

It seems to me that such a comparison topic would be of interest to everyone, because sooner or later everyone will equally have to change the stove for various reasons, and again the question of choice will arise. The pockets are different for everyone and the requirements are also different, everyone would choose the most acceptable for themselves. It would be good if it was in the form of a chtoli table .. more clearly in general.
For example, the first columns are obligatory functions for baking good-quality healthy bread, like a program lasting 3-4 hours, dough and so on, then all sorts of gadgets for creativity, which is generally optional and you can do without, well, the price.

It seems to me that such a topic-comparison would be interesting to everyone,

It would be good if it was in the form of a chtoli table .. more clearly in general.

Well, inspired. I'll open the topic the other day: "Let's compare bread makers."I'll start with the above comparison, I repeat, but for the "integrity of perception"

I do not want to be alone in the topic, I hope for your participation in the discussion. M. b. you will get something clearer. Get ready!

Well, inspired. I'll open the topic the other day: "Let's compare bread makers." I'll start with the above comparison, I repeat, but for the "integrity of perception"

I do not want to be alone in the topic, I hope for your participation in the discussion. M. b. you will get something clearer. Get ready!

I do not advise, there are already several such topics, anyway yours will unite with them You can supplement the existing one, it would be useful

I have a new dilemma) Sorry, this does not apply to this topic, but in continuation of the conversation ...
In Kiev, the price range is from 144 to 200 USD for Panason 254. Basically 170.
Then I would like to buy for 144. I just remember where the free cheese is ... They say that the warranty is 12 months, without defects, and the price is so low compared to the one from the old batch, it was brought in a long time ago ... Is it not worth the risk? Who will give advice?

I saw by your link my stove under a false name is even cheaper than ours .. but for some reason they did not mention the protection against power outages, in mine there are at least 15 minutes, somehow it even helped.

[atrium]

atrium Here on the forum there are users who managed to buy Panasonic207 New in a crumpled box, and nothing works ...

They say that the warranty is 12 months, without defects, and the price is so small compared to the one from the old batch, it was brought in a long time ago ... Is it not worth the risk? Who will give advice?

An old batch, this does not mean that it was purchased in the last century, it was just bought at old prices (and they often change), and do not worry, Panasonic does not stale for a long time And I did not meet significant marriages, except for a crumpled box or, only once, was the side will be slightly crushed, but, I repeat, it was once (I worked in an online store for several years) and then they also wove about, supposedly, thousands of defective stoves (and who checked them ... the whole thousand

Thank you all for participating! I ordered it for 180 ye - I didn’t risk it, something wasn’t clean with it. I called other managers, they say that the purchase price is much higher than these 144 ye, so then I would regret it - you will save a ruble, but you will lose 10 on them (
We have an interesting situevina - hundreds of offers in price positions, 15 rang - only 3 sellers had them, the rest just write "in stock for today" ... They say it is a scarce item)

Whoops! They called with an apology, and do not wait for the stove, they are not in Kiev right now ((
Wait a couple of weeks. Ambush, I already had plans for the evening

[quigg bb1500.05]

Hello everyone! , I want to insert my own word, if you will: flowers: I have Moulinex 5004, I am happy with the work of the oven and bread, everything is OK. And yesterday, walking with my child on the street, I accidentally came across a store of equipment that is being carried from abroad. I look cotton, it looks like one to one like my Moulinex, but it costs 250g. (about 40 cu) decided to take the mother-in-law (I agreed with the seller that if something goes wrong, I’ll give him back) ... and this stove (here it was also discussed) https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...12309.0

quigg bb1500.05... they put on an onion oven - as a result, I got a gorgeous bread, then butter cake - the same thing. Now the toad is tortured for overpaying that kind of money for Moulinex. All the same programs, a viewing window and, what is most interesting - a bucket from this stove, like a glove, enters the moulinex, one to one, but the quality of this bucket is a thousand times better, honestly. I ran to this seller to order the same stove for myself, and he laughs, says that last year he brought a bunch of them and no one took them, he had them for 5 cu. That is, he gave it for nothing, but he had a bunch of buckets left in his garage, his son wore it on metal. I left him my phone to call if there is a product. So, the first comparison of these two ovens: there is no difference, the second even has the function of cooking buttermilk and something else ... in short, if the seller does not call me, I will not admit to my mother-in-law that I purchased an oven for her

Girls, can you ask a question in this second bread maker, one of the programs
nine. Buttermilch - Buttermilk (butter + milk), I turned on this program (though not for long, idle), but it just stands, nothing interferes and the cooking time lights up 3 hours 30 minutes. It is very interesting that it can be, but I can not find it anywhere. Thanks a lot in advance

Perhaps she evens out the temperature of the ingredients at this time. I have it in whole grain bread mode

And how can this program be used? what to fall asleep ??? I really want to try the program, but I don't even know where to rock the boat, there are no instructions in the stove

Does it warm? I think it might be * yogurt *.

I went to turn it on, I'll take a look ... I read that Zest was somewhere on their German website and looked that these machines also make yoghurts ... probably this is this program, but how to use it, I'm already in German was, but nowhere is the description of "about yoghurts" found

is the bucket large? If it is large, then you can put another container inside the bucket, more styryl with milk and yogurt / mix /. that's all.

[Vorheizen]

Vorheizen This inscription is shining (did I rewrite it correctly?), it seems to be temperature equalization. It seems to me that it does not warm. And the bucket is exactly the same as that of Moulinex 5004, large, for 1350g, with a brick

[nelya]

nelya , your Vorheizen, translated - heating ...
I recommend to download the program , she connects with online translators and translates a cloud of languages ​​...

[nelya]

nelya , your Vorheizen, translated - heating ...
I recommend to download the program , she connects with online translators and translates a cloud of languages ​​...

Thank you so much, I will definitely use it. So, I didn't finish watching, the program takes 3.55 hours. of which, for about 40 minutes, it glowed on heating, and then began to knead

[ADVERTISING]

Celestine! frenzied ADVERTISING Panasonic and places of their purchase - must not be present on a social forum

Give, where was the advertisement of places of purchase of Panasonic.

[Return ALL my messages in chronological order, and do not "demand an answer" to a quote from the fact that it is not possible to read it in full.]

Give, where was the advertisement of places of purchase of Panasonic.

Return ALL my messages in chronological order, and do not "demand an answer" to a quote from the fact that it is not possible to read it in full.

We are already familiar with the "approval of the unknown", as well as with the forms and methods of "closing the mouths of dissidents" from our joint history. I don’t think social forums on the Internet are the place to continue this policy..

It is especially funny that this is done for the sake of the "GREAT PURPOSE" - the sale of not the best and rather expensive Panasonic bread machine. When there are better and cheaper!

Respected TXT, You are with us two-faced Janus?

Here you - interested user,
and in another section (where the Rules are given and it is possible to contact the Site Administration) You explain to me that Moderator is the most knowledgeable in this section and EVEN have the ability to change the look of the site (for example, "highlighting the Moderators in the sections", by the way, at my request)

So what else would you ask me?

No substantiated confirmation of the accusations of advertising the places of purchase of the bread makers has been received.
Relax in the steam bath for 10 days for bringing contention to the forum. // TXT

THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISING!

I have a Panas 254. I'll tell you how I chose it and why. I went into the store for a juicer (also a Panasonic). The model of the juicer was previously carefully selected based on reviews on the ixbt forum. But it was not available, and I walked through the rows with other household appliances. I saw bread makers and spontaneously decided to buy (I already had experience with using HP).

I chose for a long time. Probably about 10 minutes. There were several other models from different manufacturers nearby. At first there was an idea to buy the same LG as I had before (an old friend is better than two new ones), but the square shape of the bucket was not to my liking. Looked into Panas - Oh! The bucket is rectangular, which means that the bread will be more traditional in shape. I saw that there are programs "pizza dough" and "jam" - it also went a plus. The only downside was the higher price.But this was compensated in my mind by the reliability of a well-known brand - I have never had problems with various equipment from this company (TV, VCR, camcorder, microwave ...). The rest of the models did not even bother to examine.

Pros during use: excellent bread, excellent dough, excellent jam. The scapula never remains in the bread, the top crust is baked well - in the previous "ski" everything was the other way around.

There is only one drawback during operation: the Teflon coating on the bucket is not of very good quality and is gradually peeled off from the bread when it is shaken out (I wonder if this will be enough for a warranty case?).

There is only one drawback during operation: the Teflon coating on the bucket is not of very good quality and is gradually peeled off from the bread when it is shaken out (I wonder if this will be enough for a warranty case?).

Bread on Teflon - like emery on the skin! Then I began to leave the bread on the heating for an hour, it does not damp, it just becomes a little softer and pops out from one or two "shakes".

But I liked the "shakes"!

Yesterday I went to the store around the fryers and specially went to the bread makers, looked: Panasonic 255 - 6990 rubles, Ski 155JС - 6490 rubles, Ski 205 and 206 -6990, Mulinex 5002 6990, Kenwood 350 - 6000 rubles. so I would not say that Panas is the most expensive stove.

When I bought mine, I also bought it for two reasons. The first one is kneading pasta. And secondly, it was the most expensive of the entire row in the store. And the store is oh-oh-very large. I don’t know about Panas, maybe he wasn’t there. I didn’t understand HP at all then.

I bought a second oven, Alaska VM-2600, there is a Panas-254, the instruction is excellent. ALASKA without instructions, I wanted to know about the programs.

I bought a second oven, Alaska VM-2600, there is a Panas-254, the instruction is excellent. ALASKA without instructions, I wanted to know about programs.

Try to see this one https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=8753.0 and this https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=1997.0 Topics.

[vladimir]

vladimir , it is necessary to search more carefully, more carefully ...
We have everything on our site, download ...
🔗
password: Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com

There is only one drawback during operation: the Teflon coating on the bucket is not of very good quality and is gradually peeled off from the bread when it is shaken out (I wonder if this will be enough for a warranty case?).

Does everyone have this? That is, micro-parts of Teflon can be present and eaten on bread ???

I don’t have anything !! A bucket for a year and a half, but it's like new, and after all, I not only shake out the bread from it, but I also knead dough on dumplings and even shortbread in it, and cakes, and muffins, and in general it works for me at least 2 times a day!

I have a bucket for more than 5 years - everything is fine with it.

And I have an old one, but absolutely whole - not a scratch, although a wide variety of breads are baked and even more often from coarse flour.

And my bucket was scratched by a bone from raisins (caught on a spatula and mixed with it), but the bread is still shaken out!

I don’t have anything !! A bucket for a year and a half, but it's like new, and after all, I not only shake out the bread from it, but I also knead dough on dumplings and even shortbread in it, and cakes, and muffins, and in general it works for me at least 2 times a day!

I always bake at the "M" size, which is slightly more than half a bucket in height. Exactly at this mark, on the vertical reliefs, distinct stripping of the coating was formed. I can take a picture later, now the jam is being cooked.

Of course, nothing can be damaged from the test. The bread crust strips off the coating.