Help with choosing a bread machine

Especially if you bake bread not only wheat.

any bread maker of any model will bake any bread, what you put in it and you get it, you need to look at the crusts, and then often, even in x \ n sonorous firms bread with a white top crust or sidewall spots
just as an example for clarity, bread (yes, yes, bread, it's not a cupcake!) from x \ n kenwood


and here is a recent loaf from Redmond RBM-1901


choose an oven with even baking so that the crust is all the same color, for example

Marusya29, I don't know the model, a photo from another forum, a cook. ru or similar, put the photo as an example, so that the person understands what I mean. The second photo of the lady's bread had no top at all, she turned it upside down
There are a lot of similar photos, I met such and Panosonik ones on our forum

and now options for events after purchasing HP:
1st: bought a Panasonic, it works fine, baking suits, no breakdowns, everyone is happy. the phrase "overpaid for a reason"
2nd: we bought a binaton, it works fine, the baking suits, there are no breakdowns, everyone is happy. the phrase "it's good that I didn't overpay"
3rd: bought a Panasonic, did not arrange baking or broke down in a month. the phrase "it would be better to buy a binaton, and then overpay ..."
4th: bought a binaton, did not arrange baking or broke down in a month. the phrase "it would be better to buy a Panasonic, in vain I saved ..."

that's what we're aiming for

And what kind of problems does Panas have with a scapula? very often they write that it dangles and is not fixed on the shaft ???

and she has no need to firmly fix herself. It slips on the shaft quite freely, gives a certain backlash, but it has absolutely no consequences.

[Gypsy]

Gypsydoes not get stuck. It is slightly baked due to the dough.

A bit wrong, the shape of the shank on which the blade is put on does not allow it to be removed at the extreme points. This is by design to reduce spatula sticking in bread.

This is some kind of complex geometry for me (the blade seems to be removed in both extreme positions)

But in any case, a spatula in my bread got stuck a few times in these two and a half years (it was taken out of the cooled bread with the help of fingers - no hooks and knives were required).

This is some kind of complex geometry for me (the blade seems to be removed in both extreme positions)

Try removing the spatula from the shaft in a clean bucket, applying force clockwise and towards yourself.

[mnk]

mnk Of all the questions, I can only give an answer about the dispenser ... A month ago I chose HP - my head was walking around, in the end I chose Panasonic-257. I'm happy with the choice. However, now (from my experience) I can say that the dispenser is not a fundamentally necessary bloat. Since I try to control the bread at the kneading stage, I have never put it on the timer, so it turns out that until the dispenser function is a little demanded by me. The choice was also influenced by the presence of the "rye bread" program: it is also not bad that it exists, but the need for "bleeding from the nose, but necessary!" it doesn’t include a spatula for kneading rye bread can be bought separately (it is suitable for Panasonic-256, 255, and 254).
I dare to suggest that the baguettes in Moulinex are from the same opera))) It's good that there are, but you can do without them ... Although, of course, the owners of Moulinex will answer this question better

[Sherly]

Sherly - Yes, I myself am a panasonkophil In your judgments about the dispenser and the function of rye, I completely agree, that's why I bought the 256 model

A bit wrong, the shape of the shank on which the blade is put on does not allow it to be removed at the extreme points. This is by design to reduce spatula sticking in bread.

Yesterday I tried it - yes, when the blade is in extreme positions, it cannot be removed from the shaft.There is some kind of tricky geometry inside, in fact, a castle is formed.

but 4 years ago, when I was choosing a stove, I was not fundamentally looking for a Panasonic, well, this is how I am a scorpion - I don’t want to compare everything, I don’t remember which one Panasonic, but similar to the 350th Kenwood - functionally they are not inferior to each other, the price category is the same, the Kenwood design liked it more! bought the 256th Kenwood (there was no 350th, unfortunately) - I do not regret it at all! and I will praise my stove, but how could it be otherwise? while Panasonic is no worse! There is only one thing that does not suit me sooo - there is a temperature equalization mode in Panasonic.

[Hairpin]

I have been using Panasonic 254 for 2 years and 4 months. The last month began to slow down during kneading, then it generally smelled of winding. We bought a new one. Moulinex 20033. I chose: weight not less than 1 kg, so that the dough was kneaded. Everything else did not interest me. The stove is relatively cheap, with a 10% discount it cost about 4300 (I don't remember exactly). There are 12 programs in it. I really liked. Satisfied, no worse than Panasonic, although she loved him very much. It's just that this one has more power, you can feel it when mixing.
Hairpin, and wherever you go!

Well, wow, this morning I already started to write a message on this topic, but something got in the way. But I just have the opportunity to give a detailed analysis of "Kenwood vs. Panasonic". But, since the caravan is already leaving ...
Once, in the midst of perestroika, there was a TV program about the Scorpions tour in the USSR. I remember one moment - they came to the Leningrad rock club, and there some group was "playing" with might and main. Then the scorpions took their place and awesomely "roasted" one of their greatest hits ... This is what I mean, if "those" could say: "if we had such tools as scorpions, we would have given them a fire!" And the scorpions silently took the "wood" in their hands and gave this very fire ...
And on the cheapest HP, you can, if you wish, bake a chic bread, and the most expensive Panas will not forgive complete curvature and will churn out bricks.

Panas's "Italian" is not Italian, but the most common.

Does the 257 have an Italian regime? I thought it had the same modes as 255 ...

[Spire]

Spire, Italian and for sandwiches in European models. And instead of them, the CIS is jam and, it seems, dumplings. The author tested the Australian model in general ...

For the second month now I have been reading this forum and related ones in an attempt to find a bread maker for my family. For myself, I decided that I should take it with a dispenser and without programming.
I looked closely at the Supra BMS-355 (we have 4000), but there are no reviews or comparisons about it with others. On ixbt I asked - they said take the Panasonic 257 and don't worry ... In the printsyp there is money for Panasonic (we have it for 8900).
There is also LG 3002 for 8200 - but my wife did not like it ...
If anyone has a Supra BMS-355 - write down how it really is, or maybe talk me out of it ...

Eyeing Supra BMS-355

I found the following reviews for you:
gefc |
I use it for six months. Wonderful bakery. There is a timer - you can put it on in the evening, and by morning there will be hot bread. But still it turns out better without a timer. And the color of the crust turns out to be normal for me (my window is always closed with a box for nuts and fruits)
eetDream |
When I put the raisins, it is added automatically, but some of it is scattered over the stove and burns. although, maybe you just need to put less.
gefc |
from behind the window, the top of the bread turns out to be pale bread baked perfectly, everything is delicious, but the appearance is not very good, however, as I understood this, I read this in many stoves with a window on the lid in the internet and put a piece of foil on the window now the bread is rosy from all sides but it was an extra hemorrhoid
gefc |
I use a month a good bake bread and muffins, wonderful raisins with candied fruits are also conveniently added automatically

-------------------------------

what for you this dispenser .. I read the same about Panasonic, it stuck, then threw it past the bucket .. It's better to spend money on programming

Here is probably a cheaper model of the supra, there is a photo of bread ..
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=72430.0
True, the color in the photo seems to me to be distorted due to lighting or it was a photo with the phone, but it seems to be evenly baked, the bread is beautiful.

[Gypsy]

Gypsy
I found the following reviews for you: Thank you
what for you this dispenser .. just if he is not there, then there will always be a thought - and after all, with him everything would be MUCH more convenient and simpler, and you won't like figs with him ... and in order not to stick, you must first roll them in flour.
Here is probably a cheaper model of the supra, there is a photo of bread .. I saw 230, but it was rejected due to the lack of a dispenser .. well, I really want to have it in the database

In fact, most of all I do not understand whether it is worth paying twice for Panasonic and if it is, what will it give me.
If I understood everything correctly, then Panasonic has the following advantages:
- more correct algorithm for making bread here I am not an expert and I can’t say anything, maybe it’s so .. you cannot tell from the pictures - everyone turns out beautiful and tasty
- there is no window in the lid and the top is the same blush as the sides I have straight arms and it is not a problem to close the window on top with aluminum foil
- quieter than others we have a dishwasher and a washing machine working in our kitchen at night ... I don’t think that the bread maker will make more noise and interfere with our sleep
- more reliable
- just awesome... well, sorry, the owners of Panasonic, I don't see any more pluses

about a window full of bullshit. Yes, there are ovens that bake bread with a white top (for example, Moulinex), but this does not mean that the window is to blame, this is their constructive and technological feature, in other words, an imperfection I used to have a Japanese oven (it was also assembled in Japan, not Panasonic), it was it was 20 years ago, even then it was already with a window, the bread was ruddy. Now the Chinese assembly is the same, I do not cover or glue anything.

By the way, they say the ruddy crust is harmful to health, maybe the manufacturers specially laid pallor in the design of the stove - they care about the health of the consumer

my stove is not humming much

[Gypsy]

Gypsy
Do I understand correctly that you can buy a Supru 355 and it doesn’t work?
I downloaded the instructions for Supra and Panasonic (I wanted to compare the algorithms of work) - it didn’t work ... Supra has each stage in minutes, Panasonic has general numbers (and such a type - mixing 15-30 minutes) ... and what it depends on unclear?

It is not yet clear that for the "timer time of 15 minutes" at the very beginning on all programs in Supra - is this Panasonic temperature equalization?
There is no rye bread on Supra ... but judging by the forum, it can be baked on regular bread and this is not a problem.
Compared to Panasonic, there are programs on the supra:
- rich bread and individual cake and pastry programs
no:
- rye, dough for dumplings

Although I may not correctly correlate one with the other ...

[DenRassk]

DenRassk Read here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=104691.0
According to Supra, there is generally little information except that it is only in Russia and has existed somewhere since 2008 🔗 © 2008-2011 Official website of the SUPRA brand.

[DenRassk]

DenRassk Read here here

I read it, but considering that I don't know anything about baking, I didn't really understand why Panasonic's algorithm is better than Supra ...

According to Supra, there is generally little information except that it is only in Russia and has existed somewhere since 2008
Apparently this is not from what time she has been in Russia, but when a representative office appeared. I have a Suprovsky TV for 17-20 years ... and nothing is done with it - we just change the batteries in the remote control and wipe them from dust.
Marusya29
... but is there any point in comparing the total time of each cycle (kneading, proofing, baking), if it is already clear that they will be different ...
So I'm trying to understand the algorithm for making bread depends on the construct (power, volume ... something else) or on the developers' vision of how the process should look?

To be completely frank - I just do not understand when buying Panasonic I pay additionally "show-offs" in the amount of half the cost (for the brand) or do they really have advantages for which it is worth paying? So far, no one has answered this question.Currently, I can only accept - a more correct algorithm of work (but is it really so not clear). But then everyone else's bread should turn out much worse, but this is not so - judging by the forum, everyone turns out to be about the same quality and tasty. Moreover, if I understood correctly, then in different CPs you can use the same (proven) recipes and get equally good results regardless of the cost and model of the CP (that is, from the construct and algorithm).

[Gypsy]

Gypsy
Do I understand correctly that you can buy a Supru 355 and it doesn’t work?

You can take a chance. Why take a chance, just the worst (in my opinion) is the white top crust .. well, I'm used to eating unhealthy bread, it's purely psychologically more beautiful when everything is tanned. I was looking for a photo of bread from this model for you, and I could not find it. Only naked reviews. And in the reviews, many write * bakes well *, but when you look at a photo of bread, the Photo of bread is 99% helping to understand what kind of oven is.

Compared to Panasonic, there are programs on the supra:
- rich bread and individual cake and pastry programs
no:
- rye, dough for dumplings

I often use the programs * butter bread * and * pastries *. But the program * quick bread * in my opinion, 99% of users remain unclaimed. No one wants to eat unhealthy bread that stinks of yeast and hasn't gone through a normal fermentation cycle. Rye - no problem in any stove.
* Dough for dumplings * can be made on any bread program or program * dough *, just take it out immediately after kneading and that's it. And if there is a program * pasta * or something like that, then this is the program * dumplings *

at Panasonic in general figures (and such type - a batch of 15-30 minutes) ... but what does it depend on is not clear?

for Panasonic, the duration of the kneading depends on the temperature and, apparently, the steepness of the dough. Therefore, they do not write that "each stage lasts exactly that much time", but indicate the ranges.

Supra 355.


RTC (from the Neckermann catalog)

I, probably, again have problems with my HP, since how many times I baked on the program "Fast baking of bread", the dough never smelled of yeast and did not have a corresponding aftertaste. Follow the recommendations for this mode, indicated by the manufacturer, and the bread will be no worse than the Basic mode. Well, at least in Ken.

Quick-baked bread cannot differ from the brand and manufacturer. As a rule, the speed of the process is achieved by increasing the dose of yeast .. and nothing else Maroussia, do not eat such bread, take care of your stomach. Let the bread take longer, but it will always be better (healthier) * fast *.

It seemed to me, or not photo 355 supra? Here it looks like one of the Kenwoods
no, no kenwood ... RTC

one to one means you can search for a photo of the bread of this rtc

In Ukraine, they still sell this Vinis VBM-6501W, but it seems to be different


Orion OBM-24W

[Rina]

Rina
for Panasonic, the duration of the kneading depends on the temperature and, apparently, the steepness of the dough
That is, Panasonic changes the time depending on the temperature, while for the rest it is constantly independent of anything? Hm ... it's kind of strange, I thought that HPKs maintain the optimal temperature in the working area throughout the entire cycle of dough and baking preparation, or does the ten turn on only when baking?

Gypsy
I was looking for a photo of bread from this model for you, and I could not find it. Only naked reviews
I also looked for pictures, but they are not ... I found reviews (2 pieces) on the Yandex market and that's it. And this worries me most of all, but if you say that you still found positive reviews and even a photo of bread from this HP, then I’ll probably buy a Supra - I’ll risk a white crust (if only this causes fainting, and I know how to fight with a white crust)

Marusya29
Read the topic "Is it worth overpaying for a brand?"
Yes, I have already read everything .... while the conclusions are not in favor of the brands.
What distinctive quality will there be in the two Chinese assemblies?
It all depends on the control of the company that orders the assembly.The Chinese can do exactly the same outwardly things for completely different money on the same assembly line. If the company does not press down (that is, it does not require the product to be as cheap as possible) and really controls what is obtained at the output, then there is no difference, and the cost will be determined by the "greed" of the brand owner.

KENWOOD BM 900 is also similar (though the price is more than Panasonic 257):

[Supplement, I look at the instructions:]

That is, Panasonic changes the time depending on the temperature, while for the rest it is constantly independent of anything? Hm ... it's kind of strange, I thought that HPKs maintain the optimal temperature in the working area throughout the entire cycle of dough and baking preparation, or does the ten turn on only when baking?

no, no, the heating elements turn on and maintain the desired temperature always, not only in Panasonic. I can paint as in mine. There it starts from about 25 degrees and then rises to 35-40 somewhere .. closer to baking, on baked goods 118 or something., Then I'll take a look.
-----
Supplement, I look at the instructions:

After kneading 1 first rise of the dough: the heating element turns on if the temperature is less than 25 gr. C, that is, it turns on and off so that the temperature is kept exactly 25 grams.

Wrinkle

Kneading 2 ten is switched on and off to maintain a temperature of 30 gr.
Lifting 2 heating elements on / off while maintaining the temperature at 32 gr.

Dough puncture (i.e. one quirk with a mixer)

The rise of 3 - teng maintains a temperature of 38 degrees.

Baking - ten heats up to 121 degrees (this is enough to make the bread brown)

but if you say that you still found positive reviews and even a photo of bread from this HP,

no, no, I didn’t find the pictures .. I meant it in general, so you look at the forum, a person bought (any) stove, baked it and is happy, and we look at the photo and faint from the white upper crust
If you buy a supra, then please report back with a photo, it is very curious to see how bread is baked

How many times I baked on the program "Fast baking of bread", then the dough never smelled of yeast and did not have a corresponding taste.

And I, too, never had a smell or taste. Fast according to Elena Bo's recipe was generally wonderful But, anyway, I rarely use this mode ...

[Rina]

Rina
for Panasonic, the duration of the kneading depends on the temperature and, apparently, the steepness of the dough
That is, Panasonic changes the time depending on the temperature, while for the rest it is constantly independent of anything? Hm ... it's kind of strange, I thought that HPKs maintain the optimal temperature in the working area throughout the entire cycle of dough and baking preparation, or does the ten turn on only when baking?
=============================
KENWOOD BM 900 is also similar (though the price is more than Panasonic 257):

In my Yunold in specific programs, kneading and proofing have the same duration. That is, it can vary only the work of the heater in order to "catch up" with a comfortable temperature for the test. I don't know if the heating will turn on if the kitchen has, say, +30 (as it was last summer). Panasonic has more opportunities for leveling the conditions - in addition to ten, there are also different durations of kneading and proofing. Let's just say it probably has a more precise "setting".

And where is Kenwood more expensive than Panas?
In the company "more than $ 200" mostly moulinex ...

A quick, quick strife. Panas has 2:20, Kenwood has less than an hour ...

I can paint as in mine.
-----
Supplement, I look at the instructions: .....

Thank you for bringing an extract from such a wonderful instruction. How many I live here, for the first time I see specific numbers. Our instructions don't bother with this. Now it has finally become clear what Panasonic temperature equalization is.

A quick, quick strife. Panas's - 2:20,

this is probably taking into account the temperature equalization time

We do not have heating in our apartments, that is, the temperature in the room depends on the temperature outside. I bake in the oven all year round, I didn't notice the differences between winter bread and summer bread (when it's hot). In my stove, the heating elements turn on only when the temperature is lower than necessary. Does Panasonic know how to lower the temperature? if yes, then I pass

Apparently this is not from what time she has been in Russia, but when a representative office appeared. I have a Suprovsky TV for 17-20 years ... and nothing is done with it - we just change the batteries in the remote control and wipe them from dust.

Try for interest to search the offsite of Supra Japanese, or at least Korean
Shl TVs of this brand, at one time repaired, a dozen will be typed

exactly exactly
Apparently this is not from what time she has been in Russia, but when a representative office appeared

Yes, I already wrote in another topic, there is no such representation, since there is no such Japanese company. The stoves are Chinese, made by the Chinese, the Russians just put their name on the face of the stove.

And where is Kenwood more expensive than Panas?

Rina, advertising above, Techport store. RU.
the cost of Panasonic is 257 -7800 rubles, Panasonic SD-256 is 5290 rubles, Kenwood 450 is 8350 rubles.

We take another Technopark store
Kenwood BM 450 -8500r. BORK X500 -8880 rub. Panasonic SD-256 -6440 rub.

Today, Panasonic is not the most expensive HP, one of the most expensive - yes.

Here are the pictures Google gives out if you type in the name of the alleged creator of the Japanese company sumio nakamuro

well, and the web first of all gives out the Russian site of the supra and the Cheboksary forum does not even smell of japan

Have you seen a photo of the Japanese? Is this a Japanese finally


for comparison, Japanese of the same years

[1:55-2:00]

this is probably taking into account the temperature equalization time

We do not have heating in our apartments, that is, the temperature in the room depends on the temperature outside. I bake in the oven all year round, I did not notice the differences between winter bread and summer bread (when it is hot). In my stove, the heating elements turn on only when the temperature is lower than necessary. Does Panasonic know how to lower the temperature? if yes, then I pass

Nooo ...., of course, cannot lower the temperature. But it is quite possible to shorten the working time of the yeast quite significantly. Although, as my father likes to say, "these are all second-order effects." In fact, I often violate the standards of Panasonic - in order not to wait until the "alignment" is over, and to control the bun, I immediately start the "pizza", after 10 minutes I reset the program and set the "main" one, that is, I add enough yeast decent time to work.

There is no temperature equalization in the short program.
Kneading 15-20 minutes, proofing for about 1 hour, baking 35-40 minutes.
(I admit my mistake - "fast" is not 2:20, but 1:55-2:00)

[1:55-2:00]

Kneading 15-20 minutes, proofing for about 1 hour, baking 35-40 minutes.
(I admit my mistake - "fast" is not 2:20, but 1:55-2:00)

In my * quick bread * 1:10 and 1:15 .. depends on the size of the roll.
Kneading + lifting + baking .. no kneading and second kneading
I don't eat that

So I'm talking about ... in Kenwoods, as far as I know, in general 58 minutes
And in Panas there are no super-speeds ... an hour-long proofing is quite real (although, I myself have used this mode a few times, it is not worth saving time, loss of quality)

[Gypsy]

Gypsy
no, no, I didn’t find the pictures .. I meant it in general, so you look at the forum, a person bought (any) stove, baked it and is happy, and we look at the photo and faint from the white upper crust
um .. I of course also love to crunch a golden brown crust, but I saw a photo only from 230 ... I'll go to them in the subject - I'll write to the owners, maybe someone will respond ...

Interestingly, where do the superconductors live? I will buy myself such a HP, but there is no place to talk to my comrades

To All
I look .... somehow it seems to me more objectively it should be

My friends use Alaska, Benten BN9012, Binatone BM-2068 and everyone is happy. I chose the first criterion - reliability. I read a lot about mulinex and decided not to take it.

Take a look here for objectivity -

What's there to watch? There are no reviews, no comparisons, no reviews either ... only prices

Interestingly, where do the superconductors live? I will buy myself such a HP, but there is no place to talk to my comrades

And I? And we? .. well .. I don’t play like that

By the way, the mini-supra, which is a 450 g loaf, bakes with a normal top crust, people showed pictures of bread. That is, perhaps yours with a dispenser bakes well too.But this is just a guess.

What's there to watch? There are no reviews, no comparisons, no reviews either ... only prices

here's something that appeared https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=120774.0

yeah, and I was just there, I also wanted to throw a link
Bread in the photo is a feast for the eyes! It baked so well for such a small weight !!! Take this stove. Usually these small loaves in a large bucket are super-pale on top. And here there is such beauty and uniformity.

In the same place in the subject where there is supra, there is a photo of her .. she is a clone of a bunch of similar ones

Thanks, I already found it. I climbed to the summary site, and there immediately arietka 125 with a similar design, also with a maximum of 500 g, was highlighted


and binaton 1008 is generally the same ...