Dishwasher selection (1)

I read everything I wrote. For finance, it was enough to buy only beko dfs 6830 yesterday! I'm waiting for delivery today, connection, I think, won't work today. I will also describe my impressions later.
Needless to say, how glad I am with the new toy !!!!!

I have Veko for 9 months and have not regretted a single day !!! And your model is generally excellent !! Congratulations on your purchase !!!

! I'm waiting for delivery today, connection, I think, won't work today. I will also describe my impressions later.
Needless to say, how glad I am with the new toy !!!!!

Musyan! Congratulations on your purchase of the PMM. It's great that they were not "cured" of such a Wishlist. I think that you will not be disappointed, but on the contrary - every day everything is more satisfied.

Musyan didn't have PMM? Thanks to this forum, a hierarchy of devices has been built that radically improve the quality of life. PMM is in the penultimate place before the robot cleaner, definitely ...

[Hairpin!!!!!]

Holders of Veko 6830, I appeal to you!
It seems to me that something is wrong with my assistant. On the short program (30 minutes at 35 degrees), always washes at different times (sometimes 27 minutes, sometimes 40). When I open the typewriter in the face, such steam goes, far from 35 degrees. Yesterday I put a thermometer when I took out more than 50 degrees it was. I called the service. The master told me that how long the car washes is not important, the main thing is that the dishes are clean. What they say it depends on many factors (water temperature, voltage, degree of soiling of dishes). I always thought that PMM behaves this way on automatic programs. And he also said that the high temperature at the end is the result of drying. But there is no drying on the short program. As a result, he said that everything was fine with my PMM (the "well done" master, made a diagnosis on the phone) and hung up.
And further. I can't understand how the turbo dryer works. I read somewhere that this is something like a fan. But I don't hear any fan. My machine dries silently.
Maybe this is the way it should be, and I am in vain panic ...
Hairpin!!!!! How does it work for your friends?

Yesterday only after 7 pm they brought the PMM. Today at 8:40 am they hooked up, and I went to play !!!! I found a bunch of dirty dishes, three-liter cans, and so on. It was difficult to put everything there at once - the expression “to play Tetris” became clear. Girls (and boys), I imagined what it was (umm), but I really felt it only when the dishes after breakfast and the dishes after cooking were all in umm, I had an empty table and an empty sink, I had to wash only one knife…. It's a shock !!!! I put on the girls' favorite program from our forum "quick-clean" and an hour later I saw the results. I saw scratches on the cans for the first time !!! It became clear how bad I had washed them with my hands before. The bottom was dirty inside - everything was washed. The plates and dishes are like new, the plastic is clean and almost dry! Everything creaks, and creaks in a completely different way. And the shine of the dishes appeared. The dishes do not smell of anything outsiders (there is no smell of detergents). It works quietly, except for the first flood of water (like a washing machine floods water, about noise). I did not find any shortcomings. Well, except that the design is a bit old, and that's all. The main thing is its functions !!!!!
Many thanks to all beko owners for a detailed description of the advantages and disadvantages (?) Of the PMM models! Without you, it would be difficult for me to make my choice. The husband, of course, is pleased with the purchase, this can be especially felt after May 17, when the hot water is turned off until the end of the month. (Although today is the third day there is no hot water, yesterday I was washing dishes in rubber gloves, my fingers almost fell off from the cold). The only thing is, he (um) calls her "bacon".

Jefry, say amazingly correct words about devices!
And it is difficult to find a person on our forum who would voluntarily refuse a robot cleaner! Everyone needs it!
By the way, girls! I took your advice on persuading the other half to buy PMM. There was a recipe: 10 days to try not to wash the dishes, leave the husband under any pretext, let him wash (even if he likes to wash). 80% of husbands seem to give up on the 8th day. I also told my husband about microbes that can remain in large quantities on a sponge, on dishes, if you wash them with your hands. After PMM, they will also be, but undoubtedly in smaller quantities!)

I have a Bosch berry and also washes on a short program for different times, as I understand it depends on the amount of dishes in it, the more dishes the longer the machine washes. I don’t know about the temperature, but my short program is 40 C, but when I open it almost immediately, the dishes are very hot.

[tanya1962]

By the way, girls! I took your advice on persuading the other half to buy PMM. There was a recipe: 10 days to try not to wash the dishes, leave the husband under any pretext, let him wash (even if he likes to wash). 80% of husbands seem to give up on the 8th day. I also told my husband about microbes that can remain in large quantities on a sponge, on dishes, if you wash them with your hands. After PMM, they will also be, but undoubtedly in smaller quantities!)

my husband gave up on the 3rd day.

I have a Bosch berry and also washes on a short program for different times, as I understand it depends on the amount of dishes in it, the more dishes, the longer the machine washes. I don’t know about the temperature, but my short program is 40 C, but when I open it almost immediately, the dishes are very hot.

tanya1962, and you have a short program with drying?

I do not have a berry drying on a short program.

[tanya1962]

So I don’t. Therefore, I was surprised - there is no drying, and the dishes are hot. And the master said that she always dries. And in general, she says, how and how much she washes it is not important, the main thing is that you get it clean.
Thank you, tanya1962, you reassured me.

[Berry]

Berry, IMHO is not worth worrying about. You just didn't pay attention to it before, but now you noticed. You need to worry if you are sure that the changes are significant (that is, it was definitely not at all like this before), or if there are any clearly porous sounds when working. Well, it's really bad - it doesn't work. And then, the instruction can help, in the part "possible malfunctions ....". PMM is a rather complex device equipped with a variety of relays and sensors. Nobody reports to us about all the intricacies of work, so what is there in the "brains" of the machine is unknown. I believe that "no drying" means very easy drying. After all, there, where it is declared, requirements are already imposed on it (drying class) After a short program (also Bosch), only the plastic is wet. The dishes are practically dry.

It works and it works well. I just thought maybe what happened to her brains.
On the short program, my dishes are also practically dry. I was always surprised at this.

[Berry !!!]

Berry !!!Don't bother yourself !!! Washes well, and this is the most important thing !!! By the way, they do not recommend getting carried away with the short program, you have the function of clean dishes !!! And that she herself regulates the time, that's for sure, I also noticed that, depending on the workload and dirtiness of the dishes, she washes in different ways.

[Berry !!!]

Berry !!!Don't bother yourself !!! Washes well, and this is the most important thing !!! By the way, they do not recommend getting carried away with the short program, you also have the function of clean dishes !!! And that she herself regulates the time, that's for sure, I also noticed that, depending on the workload and dirtiness of the dishes, she washes in different ways.

Star, I very rarely wash on it. I'm just worried that something is wrong ...

[ESF 2440]

Well, here I was drawn to the PMM, like a magnet, take the newcomers, I read the topic in one breath, how an exciting detective is now ripe for questions

experienced owners of PMM, help me, please, I have a 4.5 sq. m., neither 60 nor 45cm pmm does not fit in any way, well, absolutely ... I was already mentally throwing everything away - in no way ...so I stopped at the tabletop, despite the fact that the microwave will move to the windowsill ...

from the desktop - praise Electrolux and Bosch. on Electrolux they complain that they do not like voltage drops, but they are more voluminous than Bosch (the baking sheet fits) and washes cleaner. the baking sheet was the key argument now I choose between the two Electrolux models ESF 2450 and ESF 2440.

in ESF 2440 such programs:
Eco 55
Rapid 50
Intensive 70
Normal 65
Rinsing and waiting

in ESF 2450 programs:
Eco 55
Rapid 50
Intensive 70
Auto 45-70

i.e. there is no rinse in the 2450, and instead of the Normal program, Auto. Can you please tell me how often do you use rinsing in compact machines, and how popular is the auto program?

and also, who has Electrolux - how critical is their dislike of unstable voltage? Is everything so sad, and is it worth wanting Bosch because of this?

I will be very grateful for the help in choosing

[Lisss's]

Lisss's, maybe we can help to squeeze in a little forty-five with joint efforts? So to say, let's take a fresh look at your kitchen ... "And why do you need this bedside table, crammed with unnecessary things - throw them away. That which the hand will not rise to - on the mezzanine !!! And here - a dishwasher ..."
Read more about compacts, all my thoughts on this are there. But in any case, the principle is this - 60 cm is more convenient than 45, 45 cm is much better than a compact, a compact is still better than washing it by hand.
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=27351.0

I can only say about rinsing and auto: I don’t use the first one at all (it’s not important to just take dirty dishes and rinse it), but I often use cars (pots after soup, borscht, etc.). A good program and not as long as at high temperatures (which I also rarely use). I have an eyelid, everything is washed there at 30 and 40 degrees. After purchasing PMM, all dishes are clean and do not need to be washed at high temperatures. Auto demanded program.

[Jefry]

Jefry, read-read studied in the most detailed way I remember your very reasonable post about 60-45-CD that's why I tried to throw out the four-thread. Well, so as not to be unfounded, wait, I'll put pictures of my kitchen. I don't have bedside tables, but drawers ... wait, I'll bring a photo

[Lisss's]

Lisss's, if at home everything is in order with the wiring and the bulbs do not blink constantly, then do not worry about the work of Electrolux. In general, a well-organized power supply for PMM is sacred. Well, it is possible, as a last resort, and through an extension cord, it will work somehow. But Bosch will then work in exactly the same unpredictable way as Electrolux.
Auto is a good thing, but not vital. I don't have it and I don't really worry about it. And if you have it, you need to remember that it, in principle, is not able to wash off strong dried-on dirt.

[
Auto is a good thing, but not vital. I don't have it and I don't really worry about it. And if you have it, you need to remember that it, in principle, is not able to wash off strong dried-on dirt.

Jeffrey, I have a Coopersbusch PMM and an aquasensor only on the auto program. If the machine considers the water not clean enough after the last rinse, it adds another 26 minutes of washing. My auto program is the most popular, and you say that everything is fine without it. I would like to understand, maybe I am mistaken?

[Nat_ka]

Nat_ka, thanks for sharing your experience! I begin to understand what to lean towards

Lisss's, if at home everything is in order with the wiring and the bulbs do not blink constantly ...

they constantly do not blink, they changed the wiring and the meter, as I did the repairs, but the house was built in 1963, sometimes in the evenings the bulbs fade for a few seconds

here is my kitchen for clarity, a general view, and then clockwise

here I would get rid of the rightmost cargo without hesitation, but it will not help - it is only 30cm wide.



there are usually two more chairs around the table



here, at the door of the bedside table under the sink, the width is only 36cm ...



option to take out the washing machine and in its place the dishwasher - I do not want to, because the washing machine is only in the bathroom, remove the sink.so I already had it, without a washbasin it is inconvenient when there is a small child in the house ...

I understand you Brezhnevka ???? I took the refrigerator out into the corridor and there are big plus-wide window sills !!!

Liss, the first thing I want to say is that you have a beautiful kitchen. I looked, looked and the only thing that came to my mind was that I understood that the microwave was standing over the washing machine, so send it to the refrigerator, and in its place a desktop PMM.

Liss, the first thing I want to say is that you have a beautiful kitchen. I looked, looked and the only thing that came to my mind was that I understood that the microwave was standing over the washing machine, so send it to the refrigerator, and in its place a desktop PMM.

I agree to all 100! The most hassle-free option

[zvezda]

I understand you Brezhnevka ???? I took the refrigerator out into the corridor and there are big plus-wide window sills !!!

zvezda, I have a Khrushchevka, the first floor - even without a balcony, but - my own, hard earned I mean that I have a "Khrushchevsky" corridor - long and thin, I can't get a refrigerator there, there is already a baby carriage

Gaby, thanks for the compliment, I have a high refrigerator, and we use the micro all the time, we warm up something. I decided to mikru either on the windowsill, or nail a shelf above the table for her, like Hairpins

this is me for Jefry, so that he does not swear - well, there is nowhere to really even insert 45 cm, only a tabletop in place of a microwave ...

[Lisss's]

Lisss's, and in my thoughts was not to swear at someone. After Shpilkin several times "a hundred" it seems that PMM can be squeezed into any kitchen. Actually, you can, if you close your eyes to how much it will cost. And if it's cheap and cheerful, then the option proposed Gaby, I like it. And there will be no problems with the connection, and the useful area of ​​the table does not suffer (the main reason for my dislike of compacts).

My auto program is the most popular, and you say that everything is fine without it. I would like to understand, maybe I am mistaken?

You absolutely correctly understand the principle of operation of "Auto". In addition, if there are two rinses in the program, and the sensor detects that the water is clear, then the second rinse will take place in the same water. But "Auto" is completely powerless against strong dried or burnt pollution! Such a saucepan or frying pan should be fermented a little longer, it has just started to soak, and the sensor thinks that you have set the plate to rinse and drastically reduces the program time. But if you wash the dishes in a timely manner, do not fry the steaks to a stone state and "do not let them dry out," then do not take too much into your head.

Such a saucepan or frying pan should be fermented a little longer, it has just started to soak, and the sensor thinks that you have set the plate to rinse and drastically reduces the program time.

My sensor never shortens the time, only prolongs it. I don’t always like the quality of the saucepans. The dried foam from the meat broth on the top is not ideally washed, but here the machine is hardly to blame. I think the shape of the pan also matters. Mine are narrowed at the top, it turns out a "dead zone" for water. Or am I "being clever"?

My sensor never shortens the time, only prolongs it.

It's like half a glass of water for an optimist and a pessimist. The principle of operation is the same, but it is implemented in different ways. Bosch has a very long program. The sensor sees clean water - we reduce the time (what good fellows !!!). "Coopersbusch" - the initial time is short (we are better than Bosch !!!), the sensor sees dirty water - well, nothing can be done, it will take longer to wash. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just that the automaton is very primitive and sometimes makes mistakes. Previously, the aquasensor had two gradations - transparent / cloudy, now in top models the range has been stretched up to four, but the situation has not radically changed. In addition, the sensor itself is optical. Exactly the same as those that determine the presence of salt and rinse aid. If it gets dirty with something, then all the dishes will always wash longer and hotter (there is nothing bad about that either).It's like an automatic car: the perfect thing for driving in "jams", but experts say that it shifts gears incorrectly on uphill bends.

The dried foam from the meat broth on the top is not ideally washed away

This is just some of the All-in-one enhancer pills. And it concerns all PMM without exception. I will believe in Japanese phosphate-free super-products only when I try it myself.

[Jefry]

Jefry, thanks, I, in general, originally planned a place for microwaves there I have other questions for the owners of electric suites, I will repeat them here so as not to get lost

from the desktop - praise Electrolux and Bosch. they complain about Electrolux that they do not like voltage drops, but Electrolux is more voluminous than Bosch (the baking sheet fits) and washes cleaner. the baking sheet was the key argument now I choose between the two Electrolux models ESF 2450 and ESF 2440.

in ESF 2440 such programs:
Eco 55
Rapid 50
Intensive 70
Normal 65
Rinsing and waiting

in ESF 2450 programs:
Eco 55
Rapid 50
Intensive 70
Auto 45-70

i.e. there is no rinse in the 2450, and instead of the Normal program, Auto. Can you please tell me how often do you use rinsing in compact machines, and how popular is the auto program?

and also, who has Electrolux - how critical is their dislike of unstable voltage? Is everything so sad, and is it worth wanting Bosch because of this?

[sazalextera]

and also, who has Electrolux - how critical is their dislike of unstable voltage? Is everything so sad, and is it worth wanting Bosch because of this?

Ask sazalextera, and he will tell you that his Electrolux works wonderfully even with voltage drops. It seems to me that this "notoriety" follows the Lux after one unsuccessful model that reset the program on power outage. There was obvious nonsense, but now even Beko does not allow himself this.

and how popular is auto?

Most users of PMM with a car use only it or a quick one and are quite happy with the result, and some, like me, like to decide for themselves how to wash the dishes. My typewriter has seven programs, and mine is always at 55 degrees, even plastic and glass. Occasionally, heavily burnt pans - on an intense 70-degree.

how often do you rinse

The philosophy of the rinsing program is a 60cm machine, the wife and the children went to their mother, the plate that was put there first will be washed in about a week. To prevent aroma from coming out of the machine, this plate needs to be rinsed periodically.
Those who tried to implement such an idea immediately abandoned it once and for all. It's one thing to load the dishes into a dry, clean and shiny machine, and quite another thing to load the dishes into a greasy, wet one ...
Personally, I use rinsing only in one case: if I filled in salt and do not plan to wash the dishes immediately. To prevent the stainless steel from rusting, the machine must be rinsed immediately. So I used it a couple of times.

[Jefry]

Jefry, Thank you!!! You explain very well!

I’m beginning to understand that I don’t need rinsing - firstly, a compact machine, you won’t save much in it, and secondly, there are four of us, I like to cook, and I actively use all kitchen gadgets when cooking, by the end of cooking, a full sink with a mountain

by common efforts, it seems that the pendulum has swung

forever !!!!

ah-ah, what else did I notice - they do not have a program for glass ... how to wash glass - on a car?

[auto]

ah-ah, what else did I notice - they do not have a program for glass ... how to wash glass - on a car?

I wash all the dishes on auto, including glass. If the dishes or glass are gilded, then it is generally not recommended to wash it in the PMM, the gilding will peel off over time. I'm sorry to drive the car separately just for the sake of glass, because in the total volume of dirty dishes, glass makes up a small part.

A tabletop dishwasher is like a portable sewing machine, thrown away money, and zero sense. 45cm. this is the minimum that is required. I have the second 45cm. dishwasher (the first one remained in the old apartment) and sometimes it is not enough for me.The top is stuffed with cups and small salad bowls, the bottom with plates and something out of the box (or a saucepan or frying pan). You can, of course, cram most of everything there, but then the quality of washing suffers. To argue that a small (desktop) PM can be loaded several times in a row - in theory, yes, in practice, I want the dishes to be washed all at once, usually that I do not fit my hands. And it is better to wash two pans with a non-stick coating by hand than one saucepan after boiling porridge.

And Electrolux 2430 was not considered ??? There are more programs there. And yet not bad Bosh60E12EU. There are also 6 programs. A friend of mine has been using a compact machine for many years and is very happy .... anyway better than with her hands !!!!!

[Lisss's]

I don't think a portable sewing machine is of any use. When you need to sew one seam, it really helps, because you can't sew like that on your hands.
And if there is no place, then the desktop PMM is the way out. I have a family of 4 people - 2 adults and 2 children. I start my 45 cm typewriter 1 time in the evening. But if there was a tabletop, then I would wash after each meal. This also has its advantages - you do not need to have a lot of dishes.
So that, Lisss's, in your case, the desktop is a very good choice! Better than hand washing!

[rinsing]

I rinsing I use it quite often. Usually, if there are a lot of food leftovers on the dishes and the machine is full, I turn it on first, and then another program. PMM 45 cm, washes 1-2 times a day.

... here is my kitchen for clarity, a general view, and then clockwise ...

Who designed such meters for the most popular place in the apartment ?!
Probably, there is some truth in the idea that such small apartments were built with the aim of degenerating the nation. Look at these 4 squares and think 10 times before giving birth to another child.

[Pogremushka]

Pogremushka, you are absolutely right, my spouse and I are now waiting for the eldest (12 years old) to grow up and he can be resettled in a separate apartment (which does not exist yet)

lga, Sena, zvezda, Berry, girls, thank you very much for your tips, for sharing your experience, this is very valuable and useful for me

zvezda, they say, Bosch washes not as well as the electrolux ...

I went to the store today and looked at the Bosch and Electrolux compacts in comparison ...

Bosch has a stainless steel camera, Electrolux has something white, like enamel. how is it in operation, please tell me.

outwardly, I liked Bosch more ... the Electrolux has a convex front panel, like a pillow, and Bosch has strict straight lines .. oh, the agony of choice continues ...

[Berry]

Berry
And how much water-electricity-detergent will it eat if you wash the dishes after each meal? And the noise from it is also not small, if it is not built-in.

I turn on the dishwasher in the morning after breakfast, load yesterday's dishes after dinner and today's after breakfast into it. In the evening, when everyone comes home, all the dishes are clean, and so on in a circle. I don't use the timer, not mine in the evening, because I love absolute silence, and I have a kitchen-living room.

When I lived at the stage of moving, that is, the equipment had not yet been installed, I allocated the number of dishes according to the number of people in the family, and believe me, three plates and three forks are always clean, they simply cannot accumulate. Then, when the dishwasher was connected, I rebuilt for a long time, and only when I took out all the dishes did I start using the dishwasher every day. Perhaps, if now there is no way to buy a normal car, try to do with the minimum amount of dishes? I repeat, I had already bought a typewriter, and so I probably would have continued to live with three plates and took out more only for the guests, and then hid it so that it would not accumulate. Sounds unconvincing, but it was really convenient.
(What I’m not ready to part with is a clothes dryer, a really irreplaceable thing, as I used to live without it - I still haven’t found the answer :-) But this is a completely different topic.)
Good luck to all!

[Berry]

Berry
And how much water-electricity will it eat if you wash the dishes after each meal? And the noise from it is also not small, if it is not built-in.

Senathan to wash with my hands - I am ready to pay for water, and the housing situation in the next 10 years will definitely not change for the next 10 years, I always have a lot of dishes, and no one likes to wash it, have you seen my kitchen on the previous page? what, all 10 years to live with three plates? even Jeffrey agreed that it was necessary to take the CD in such a sad situation, today I saw their physical volume live - these are our two meals, if I do not cook, and one - if after cooking it suits me

no one argues that 45 and 60 are better, but you have to proceed from real conditions - than washing with your hands, it is better every time after eating

Lisss's, you have all Bosch in your kitchen! Well, I did not consider the refrigerator and the microwave (the cartoon does not count) The quality of the sink depends on the means that you will use. I don’t think that the trickles there somehow do not spray like that.

About water consumption, it's just the opposite !!! To wash the dishes with your hands, at least 300 are poured out at a time !!!!!! liters, and in the dishwasher-7 !!! The difference is obvious !!!

[Nat_ka]

Nat_ka, consoled, I will go now Bosch to choose

dear members of the forum, I will soon choose and buy something, and I will stop tormenting you! : :) thanks for your patience and advice !!!

[Nat_ka]

Nat_ka, consoled, I will go now Bosch to choose

dear members of the forum, I will soon choose and buy something, and I will stop tormenting you! : :) thanks for your patience and advice !!!

I also tend to Bosch more !!!! But 60E12EU !!!!!

Girls, I’m not saying that a small dishwasher is evil, it’s just that it will not have the same effect as expected. Lisss's kitchen is small but nice. Pull the connection hoses in any case, maybe if you look very closely at the adjacent territories, you can move the washing machine, and in its place a dishwasher or find some other solution. (In the past, having spent more than one month of sleepless nights, I rebuilt my one-room apartment for a full-fledged three rubles in functionality, there was a place for everything and there was no feeling of the box.)

Tabletop PMM supporters:
If we are talking about babies, then Kandy has a compact version, with a different top, 🔗, I saw a similar one from some manufacturer.

PS Itself very often I go on about my desires, not listening to reason, and then I regret compromise purchases. Perhaps this comes with age, but now I would rather refrain from buying than buy something that is not quite right.

[Lisss's]

Lisss's Take a closer look at Electrolux ESF 2440, read reviews ....
🔗
Or Electrolux ESF 2450 🔗
🔗
And white inside, this is a plastic carboran 🔗
PS Before buying, ask how in your city with the BSH and Electrolux service. (Just in case)

[sazalexter]

sazalexter, before Bosch I chose between them .. now I'm lost - it seems to have been relieved with the carbonar, but I don't like the convex front panel, like a pillow in a store, I saw a 2430, which in the photo was not very convex, but in real life ... a pillow. .. 2440 and 2450 in the photo look the same as 2430 - I'm not very happy ...

[Lisss's]

Lisss's This "pillow" hides the electronic unit and the detergent supply system. By the way, a very well-thought-out machine, a colleague bought it and now will not be overjoyed

[Berry]

Berry
And how much water-electricity-detergent will it eat if you wash the dishes after each meal? And the noise from it is also not small, if it is not built-in.

Sena, so the compact PMM eats less of all this. Even in my machine, when there are not enough dishes, I sprinkle less powder and turn on half the load, that is, less energy and water are spent. Less dishes - less energy, powder, water consumption.
About 3 plates. You and my husband would sing. He also says that you need to have 4 plates - one for each family member. Okay. Suppose we each have our own plate. And where to put the sausage, bread? Where to cut a tomato with a cucumber? I have many different plates and every day I take a plate to suit my mood.Today I want to eat from one, and tomorrow from another. Here I am such a strange woman.