Wlad
Quote: NikaVS
Vlad, well done, always creative
Well, I want it to be tastier ...
Quote: NikaVS
you must also grind the truffles and add ...
You live gorgeous ... let truffles in bread ... ... The bread is too expensive, then it will turn out ...
SoNika
Quote: Dark Steppe Eagle

Well, I want it to be tastier ... You live luxuriously ... let truffles in bread ... ... The bread is too expensive, it will turn out ...
there is no longer a liter of dry cans thrown away you know how flies love them. This was given to us by a neighbor in the country, a couple of kg ... he found 10 kg in our forest ... he gave everything to our relatives and when the restaurants did not buy it, the aroma was of berries and nuts, I laugh that elves smell like this to nigahs. chic neighbors in the country, everyone!
Waist
Quote: NikaVS
We have gorgeous neighbors in the country, everyone!
Well, that's how Vlad says:
Quote: Dark Steppe Eagle
You live gorgeous ...

SoNika
Quote: Waist

Well, that's how Vlad says:
No ... very modestly, for example, the house stood without an owner for 12 years ... since the father-in-law there again had a stroke and he died.
So they started to go there ... we don't know what to grab onto, the land or the house ... change windows on 2 floors, change fences, etc. ...
yes, and I get tired at home and at work ..., and then there's the countryside ... I want my house and that's it!: rose: And to the dacha with my bread ... mmm
Irishka CH
WLAD, Nika, try this bread. I love! And with additives as you like. Just read the topic first, there are many reviews with all sorts of nuances. I personally always have almost bread under the lid! There are no photos of my own, I cannot brag.
fffuntic
Tang Zhong and bread.

Tang Zhong additive is universal. It can be added to any of your favorite bread and it will slightly change to the "Japanese side".
This additive should be considered an enhancer. The main thing is to cook it correctly.

The point is to get liquid jelly.
The preparation should also be "Japanese". The flour should be diluted with cold water. So that there are no lumps. It is easier to do this in two steps. First a small amount of water and stir, then the rest of the water. Or even starch into flour. As you prefer, if only without lumps.
It should be remembered that we cannot boil this tea leaves, so if the tap water is not tasty, we use our favorite tasty.
And than slow over low heat with intense heat with stirring. All these complications to
- all the flour has been properly moistened with water. So that there is enough for every grain.

Hence the requirement that the final jelly be like kefir. Better thinner than thicker. Because when it is thicker, there is only partially enough water for complete absorption. We cannot offend the torment. Like the most natural kefir or very liquid sour cream.

Can't overheat. Why? yes, because the capture of moisture by starch at different degrees is different. To give those properties that we need experimentally specifically for this type of bread, the tea leaves must not be heated above 64 degrees.
Therefore, as soon as, when heated, the whisk began to leave traces (better, of course, a thermometer), there should not be any rolls yet. Only a slight trace from the whisk - quickly pour into another dish or place on a cold surface. Because the hot saucepan continues to heat our jelly and it will overheat.
The jelly cooled down to room temperature is ready to use.

Received semi-liquid We consider jelly as a liquid addition to the dough.

The proportions are difficult to indicate, the flour is different.
Therefore, take, for example, 100 g of water and 20 g of flour. And next to it, put half a glass with marks on the volume of water or weigh up an additional amount of water, with a temperature of 70 degrees, so as not to cool our resulting jelly.
Making tea leaves.If it turns out thick, then dilute it hot water and write down on a piece of paper how much water was not enough. Why can't you leave it like that? Because we do not need free water in a jelly, but bound water, that is, captured by starch when heated.
Redesign your tea leaves to suit the needs of your flour.
Although this brew is Japanese, it obeys the rules for all wheat bread infusions.
There is such a concept as "the enzymatic activity of flour", as all types of infusions affect it, and therefore, how many you want, you cannot add them.
Usually, 5-12% of the prescription amount of flour is used for brewing, therefore, for 400 g of flour in the recipe, the brew can be given from 20-44 g of flour. Well, the water will have to be calculated in practice.

This brew stores water and feeds the yeast. Increases juiciness and so on, like all infusions.
So, we decided to improve the bread with Japanese brew. Remember that it is like an additional liquid. Therefore, when kneading, first put in the tea leaves and dry ingredients, and add the water from the recipe according to the consistency of a bun.

That's all the intricacies of using Japanese tea leaves.

You can add dances with tambourines for making Japanese bread. With extra kneading and roll-up before proofing
But this is if you like the type of bread and there is a desire to tinker additionally.


SoNika
Quote: Irishka CH

WLAD, Nika, try this bread. I love! And with additives as you like. Just read the topic first, there are many reviews with all sorts of nuances. I personally always have almost bread under the lid! There are no photos of my own, I cannot brag.
Thank you, Irina
Wlad
Irinka, Thank you very much
SoNika
Quote: fffuntic

Tang Zhong and bread.
Lenushka, as always, in detail.
For the preparation of sauces, so that the flour does not curl up, different degrees of sautéing are done, I wonder, but here it will not work? We went out loud ... I'll fill my hand (hopefully) I'll try.
$ vetLana
fffuntic, Lena, thank you. This option is suitable for flour, but if you add c. h.? How much can you add if the total weight of flour is 400 grams?
fffuntic
Quote: $ vetLana

if you add c. h.? How much can you add if the total weight of flour is 400 grams?



theory, I will quote BREAD grinders and Hlebinfo

1. Flour and enzymes.

The dough can also blur for reasons beyond your control, but which can also be adjusted. You've probably come across such concepts as the enzymatic or amylolytic activity of flour. It's about the enzymes that are found in flour, mainly amylases, which are found in whole grain flours, as they are found mainly in the bran and germ. Enzymes are protein substances that can speed up or slow down fermentation processes by attacking, that is, destroying starches and proteins. The enzymatic activity of flour is determined by the intensity and activity of enzymes acting on the dough. We cannot know for sure how active the enzymes of a particular flour are, so we should rely, first of all, on our own observation. Whole wheat flour dough is known to be quite difficult to work with when compared to white flour dough. In addition to the fact that the gluten in it does not develop very much anyway, it also noticeably liquefies during fermentation. This is easily seen if you are baking a hearth whole grain wheat bread or spelled bread. By the end of the proofing, the dough becomes very soft, may stick or pull on the blade when notched.

2. Dependence of the starter culture on enzymatic activity.
It should be borne in mind that the amount of infusion added to the dough must be regulated depending on the enzymatic activity of the flour. The enzyme activity of flour is expressed as falling number. The higher the enzymatic activity of the flour (lower falling number), the less tea leaves should be used.



We have whole grain, the most active, that is, the infusion should be taken at the very minimum, no more than 5 percent of the flour in the recipe. Try also 20g, and if the test baking turns out to be tasteless, you will need to reduce the amount of brewing.
Without a laboratory, it is only in practice that the optimal amount can be derived.


About brewing in principle.

The brewing has only one main purpose: to gelatinize the starch in flour.In simple terms, this means, forcing starch mutate and absorb, combine with water - not to be confused with dissolve. To dissolve is water + substance interspersed, but they are by themselves, they are free. To swell, it is to come into contact with water, water and starch become bound. Claying - swelling in a square, very strong contact with water, which then allows this water to be retained after baking, which gives juiciness and slows down staling, or forms a gel when solidified.
Claying may vary by degree the depth of contact of starch with water, in a simple way, that is, by the amount of stored moisture and the modification of the internal structure of starch.
It takes time, the strength of this contact depends on the brewing temperature and the amount of starch. This is a very, very difficult process. Starch is insoluble in cold water, according to various sources, it begins to swell from about 50 degrees, from 60 degrees the beginning of gelatinization is observed, which ends after 100 degrees. Above, the degradation of starches is already observed. The degrees are approximate.
Well, when heated, as a secondary effect, pathogenic bacteria are killed in the tea leaves and by playing with different temperatures of the tea leaves, you can settle there different types of bacteria that love certain temperatures. And get, for example, a dough with a certain taste due to a specific type of bacteria.
Well, tea leaves are a delicacy for yeast.

In general, about all kinds of tea leaves, if the hunt for poking around is very well painted by Boris, search on Google for
"Tea leaves and wheat dough - about Bread and Rolls - bvallejo"
and a reference site on bread at
"Using the wheat dough brewer | Hlebinfo"
and here
"Brewing for wheat bread - bread grinders", clearly written, but found inaccuracies... Boris has no mistakes.


Anything that contains starch is capable of brewing. Therefore, making a brew from whole grain flour is no more difficult than from bakery. The process is the same. The only thing is that whole grain flour is less water-absorbing; on the contrary, you may have to reduce the water for brewing.

But the question of the benefits of the use of brewing for central brewing of bread is already controversial.
ZZ is used to improve digestion and means that it is a rougher bread than CP and is more enzymatically active.
And the use of tea leaves will make it softer, more magnificent, tastier, sweeter and so on. But the benefit will be less.



Added Wednesday 08 Mar 2017 11:43 PM

And also CZ loves low temperatures and kneading and fermentation. We choose the mode for the central lock sparing, in terms of temperature below the main mode.
And that is why one more effect can be observed in bread with CH and infusion:

The use of tea leaves has a definite effect on the fermentative microflora. An increase in the infusion content and a decrease in the temperature of the dough to 28-30 ° C leads to the activation of yeast activity and the suppression of lactic acid bacteria, gas formation in the dough increases

that is, it is expected that the consistency of the bread will be tender, delicate, fluffy, silky, but it may taste different from bread made with white flour and will be more airy, closer to toast, that is, neutral.

Because we choose the main hot mode for regular bread, there will be more lactic acid bacteria and therefore a more traditional taste.





Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 00:03

Quote: NikaVS


For the preparation of sauces, so that the flour does not curl up, a different degree of passivation is made, I wonder, but here it will not work? We went out loud ... I'll fill my hand (hopefully) I'll try.

no, it will not work at all. Passing - direct contact with flour at high temperatures. Passing is designed to destroy the protein-starch structure of flour. With prolonged hot contact, flour proteins generally die, starch partially degrades.
The only goal in the sauce is a smooth velvety texture.
Therefore, proteins are completely killed so that there is no hint of the formation of rubber lumps of gluten later, and the starch is greatly changed so that it immediately reaches the highest degree of gelatinization on the verge of degradation, that is, it forms a smooth, smooth jelly.
There is no question of storing moisture, which should be retained after baking and give juiciness to the product.
There is no question of using flour that is still alive (in many types of brewing, even proteins are preserved) for later making, for example, sourdough or dough.
Sauteed flour is completely or partially killed flour in terms of baking needs.





Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 00:57

Well, since I caught my eye, I'll try to comment on the Cheese Bread recipe here

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...ion=com_smf&topic=92948.0
Everything is very simple:
Three cheese on a coarse grater. Pour water and milk into the HP bucket, add dry yeast, sugar, salt, ginger, put butter (not melted butter, but preferably melted). The oil does not need to be heated, it itself will become soft from warm water and the work of HP and will intervene perfectly. Now we weighed and added flour, the yeast had time to "play". Turn on the stirring mode ("Pelmeni" for Panasonic 255), add the cheese. After everything is well mixed (it is not necessary to wait until the end of the Pelmeni program), we turn on the main four-hour bread program, set the size to medium (M), light crust (very fried). Everything, you can rest and wait for the end.


If you pay attention, it is impossible here, strictly speaking, to use the word "dough". This method is akin to the standard mode of Hitachi HP with two-stage mixing and rest between them.
As I have explained more than once, this is a really very good method if the flour takes time to swell. There is flour that gives gluten within 10 minutes, this is called "for bread makers", and there is a regular bakery. In especially advanced cases, it can swell for three hours.
The scarecrow made the initial batch of dumplings. I left the dough to rest in the HP in the warmth, then the main kneading took place.
The only thing, she allowed it to begin on vacation primary fermentation dough, which she called "dough".
But in fact, it just gave the flour time to swell and lengthened the fermentation-fermentation time of the dough by half an hour more than in the standard mode.
This technique is perfectly acceptable if ...

- you have strong yeast. If after the second strong batch they give a lot of gas again. Almost all of the first gas will be knocked out during the main mixing.
- if your flour is strong. And the faster it swells, the fluffier the final version will be.

I will immediately answer the question on the central locking system. For central locks, this method is not a fountain. Because even before the development of gluten, interfering gases will accumulate in the central locking system and there will be an extra warmth before the main kneading, which can ruin your gluten.

Further....
.

1. Subtle moment
Pour water and milk into the HP bucket, add dry yeast, sugar, salt, ginger, put butter (not melted butter, but preferably melted).
not all dry yeast will survive this normally. Many dry yeast die from direct contact with even warm water, not to mention cold water. These are not alive for you
Yeast is poured into a warm environment to revive it.
But firstly, it takes at least 15 minutes, and secondly, it should be done only as the manufacturer intended.
So ... if your yeast is not water resistant, don't do that. Mix with flour,
and if you want to activate them. Then do it according to the technology that your yeast will withstand.

2. Well, with butter. If you want more lush bread, put it on flour and not liquid, so that it does not immediately envelop the flour. Butter is a inhibiting factor in the development of gluten.
The later it gets into the dough, the fuller the bread will be. But there is not much of it in the recipe, so do as you please.

If you want to repeat this recipe with CZ, then it makes sense to change it. We remember that ZZ does not like heat and intense stirring.

Since we bake central brews on a dietary regime, we are already lengthening the fermentation time. Our cycle is longer than the main one. Therefore, we do not need to start early fermentation of the dough.
We knead the dough on dumplings only before mixing the ingredients and ideally it would be better without oil , not higher than room temperature. Yeast is not activated in any way. We do not let them earn. If CH is very weak, then generally a bucket before the main batch in the refrigerator. If it's harder, okay, let him sit in the stove.
Leave the butter on top in pieces on the kneaded dough, and you can then report it before the main kneading.

Please note that it is not necessary to torment the delicate dough from the central locking system during the first batch. The simplest mixing is enough
Well, then everything is according to the program.
From the "opara" from the Scarecrow will have to be abandoned. CZ may not like this

Rather, if you have a strong CZ, then you can not change anything. But if she is weak and delicate, you have to adjust.


By the way, in time single grain the mode is very similar to the standard program.
Diabetic, although gentle, it is also long-lasting.

CZ lovers, you at least try both of these modes and compare. Whole grains can produce very interesting results or not.

It seems to me that this should be a high-speed super-duper mode for weak flour, although the kneading time of 30 minutes introduces a little into a stupor. But maybe it's some kind of very intelligent there.

I can’t check, I don’t have it. And you may be missing out on an interesting opportunity for faster bread for the central loaf.

So they would try for cheese bread

$ vetLana
fffuntic, Lena, do you have Panas? Which one?
In single-grain, the usual order of bookmarking? (for gluten-free bread, the cat is prepared on this program, it is written first liquid, then dry)
Waist
Quote: $ vetLana

In single-grain, the usual order of bookmarking? (for gluten-free bread, the cat is prepared on this program, it is written first liquid, then dry)
Light, how is it? There is a separate program for gluten-free bread.
Single grain is like the next one.
$ vetLana
Natalia, exactly, you're right. Single-grain is from spelled. I don't bake those.
This means that for a single-grain one - the usual bookmark.
SoNika
Good day everyone. Lena thanks again.
Girls, the more I read your posts, the more I am amazed at you - when I still figure out which one is better on which program


Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 3:53 PM

Girls help me out, I'm already in the process, but I'm drowning .., according to the recipe for Tang Zhong: 1.5 tsp salt, 1/3 tbsp sugar. l, that is, salt - a teaspoon + another half, and less than a teaspoon of sugar, maybe the other way around? It turns out that something is not right .. Mlyn, well, what recipe I won't take here is some kind of ambush for me
Waist
Nika, I baked this bread in a lean version. With these proportions, the bread is salty.
If you want this, then add as in the recipe:
salt - 1 whole tsp + half tsp;
sugar - 1 tsp.
If you want more neutral, then salt and sugar 1 tsp.
SoNika
I replaced all the pozdyak to rush with 30 g of honey, and 1/4 of salt
NaTalia, why so much salt? Add?
$ vetLana
Nika, I took 1 tsp. salt and sugar 1/3 tbsp. l. I don't like salty.
Waist
1/3 Art. l
This is 1 person
1 tablespoon contains 15 ml.
1 teaspoon contains 5 ml.
Wlad
Lyuyuyudiiii ... well tell me how many at least approximately ground porcini mushrooms should be added to a large loaf ???
My experiment with 5 grams did not give anything, there is no smell at all, and even more taste
SoNika
Quote: $ vetLana

Nika, I took 1 tsp. salt and sugar 1/3 tbsp. l. I don't like salty.
girls, n shoot me, but how can dessert not be sweet, but salty? I added sooli, it will be, somewhere 1/3. But now I will not withdraw honey, I took the number of it from the suggested recipes below TZ.
$ vetLana
Nika, I baked like regular white bread. I use it for hot sandwiches.
SoNika
Quote: $ vetLana

Nika, I baked like regular white bread. I use it for hot sandwiches.
Svetlana, if, I understood Lena correctly, then this bread is closer to buns ..., dessert ..., and then the stereotype works that it should be sweet. Although I'm not very sweet, it depends on what ...: oops: bitter chocolate
Okay, I'll see what happens, I'll try.
Milk bread with count. and it was my cheese, so far I liked NaTalyin, daily, but I haven’t tried French yet.
Vlad, I didn't find it either ... I can read it on packs of ready-made, about how many additives in gr.
$ vetLana
Quote: NikaVS
then this bread is closer to buns ..., dessert
For me, it looks like a Frenchman, but without a thick crust.
But I'm not special like Lena.


Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017, 04:38 PM

Nika, the most correct way is to do the first time exactly according to the recipe. Then adjust to your taste
Wit
WLAD, type this into a search engine:
"Bread with mushrooms in a bread maker - Simple recipes ..." and walk around! .... I don't give a link, because there are some rules with these links ...

Let's go and figure it out. There are pictures

Ingredients (per 750g loaf):

Wheat flour - 2 cups
- rye flour - 1 cup;
- table salt - 1 tsp;
- purified water - 1 cup;
- granulated sugar - 2 tbsp. l .;
- skimmed milk powder - 2 tbsp. l .;
- butter - 2 tbsp. l .;
- dry instant yeast - 2 tsp;
- canned or fresh mushrooms (sliced) - 0.5 cups;
- onions - 1 small head;
- odorless vegetable oil - 1 tbsp. l.


Good luck!
SoNika
Svetlana, tossing about late ... what will happen ...
Wlad
Vitaly, AlexanderThank you very much, now of course it's funny what I expected from 5 grams of some kind of smell in bread
well boom increase the dose of mushroom
Mirabel
Quote: NikaVS
when I still figure out which is where, which program is better
I have been baking for 8 years, and I often get confused in programs. And Panasonic is generally a very self-sufficient Monsieur, with his own character traits.
SoNika
Quote: Mirabel

I have been baking for 8 years, and I often get confused in programs. And Panasonic is generally a very self-sufficient Monsieur, with his own character traits.

I'm a beginner, until I understand everything .. and I look behind the kolobok, at first it seems cool, then it becomes thinner ... yes?
fffuntic
Everything is so complicated with this bakery.

Every time I even buy different salt. You put in the same teaspoon and the result is different

Svetlana, I'm not special, I've already written a hundred times.
The only thing, I experimented with wheat bread this way and that, I read a bunch of information, it was interesting. Sat at Luda's site voraciously
I picked up a little bit from everywhere, but it seems there is useful knowledge. Since there are no real technologists in the subject, my amateur verses are a small fish in the absence of fish

I had before 2501, but I gave it up in favor of the old lady bu 253 (because of the Italian regime) Therefore, I don't have a spelled-single-grain one.
And there is a suspicion that since spelled is the most delicate and delicate flour, this mode should be ideal for weak CH. But it must be checked in practice.
Nika, this bread is dessert not because of the sweetness, but because of the texture. Why are you such an over-experimenter. Well, you don't want to follow stupid instructions

For me, at first mash = mash, and then a bun without a puddle under the shoulder blade
Subjective feelings are difficult to convey.

You must understand what is happening, as if you were kneading in a mixer.

In a mixer, you first moisten the flour, it turns out like very, very thick porridge !!. Very thick porridge, for me that is.
Not a dough that you can mold, but porridge.
Then, after moistening, gluten begins to form and we can talk about the beginning of kneading.
That is, in HP for about five minutes only this porridge is mixed to moisten the ingredients.

And then the resulting (we believe that the flour is fast, moistened and gluten formed immediately) gluten in the flour, we begin to knead. That is, stretch it into films.

And as a result of this stretching, you can get three results.
1. Initial development. You have often heard: knead until it sticks off the hands and walls of the dishes. This is it. Large bubbles also peel off on the surface.
2. If you continue to knead, the bubbles will become medium and will stretch into relatively thick dough ribbons.
3. The strongest kneading, up to the gluten window. On regular programs, I have never reached

Usually, at the end of the batch, Panasonic has an initial development. This is the very initial kneading. Because flour does not swell immediately, if not special for bread makers.
For about 5 minutes the stove mixes, then, in general, it interferes with idle, there only gluten is formed and somewhere in the last 10 minutes there is an intensive stirring, it is enough to ensure that by the end of the kneading the bun does not smear the walls and sticks off the hands, thick bubbles on the surface.

The faster the flour, the longer the gluten is mixed directly and the more developed it will be.A fast gluten-forming flour can give a moderate gluten development.

Double kneading with rest allows you to achieve the best kneading for ordinary slow flour, up to medium unequivocally, because the main batch immediately completely kneads the already swollen gluten.

Therefore, in fact, first you have porridge, then porridge-ball with daubs under the shoulder blade, this stage will be the longer, the thinner the kneading was and the longer gluten is formed in the flour, then completely at the end of the ball. The ball is like a ball or an elongated ball, if kneaded thinner.
For the initial development of gluten, you can daub right up to the last moment. To stop smearing just before the very end of kneading.

There is a great danger of kneading an excessively dense dough in HP. If your ball starts rolling as a ball after 10 minutes of kneading, then you need to look at this ball and if you see that it rolls exactly like a ball without mixing, then the dough is dense.
Normal consistency - it must be kneaded, that is, the dough wraps softly, beautifully, easily around the shoulder blade.
Watching is a separate pleasure. The gingerbread man wriggles as if alive I love it when, like a boa constrictor, gently slides along the wall.
Well, practice on dumplings. Mix different koloboks and see how they behave.








Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 7:53 PM

I will repeat myself. The gingerbread man must be alive until the last moment. Daub or not, but alive. It should be seen that the spatula is mixing everything, mixing, stirring ... and not just driving it around the bucket. The more lively the bun, the closer we are to the ideal of kneading. It is necessary that it is alive and well and not smeared, at least by the end of the batch
Waist
fffuntic, Len, thank you for this
Quote: fffuntic
bread in consistency resembles a tender bun with stretching crumb.
Bread is an unsweetened bun.
It goes well with sausage and other delicious additives that are delicious with buns

He's completely different. Not as brutal as usual.
I baked I liked it I ate a ham today - beauty He is special!
SoNika
Girls, something with this HP, I became an alarming truth. I wish everything was good. Swear, Len, but I'm glad I didn't put in so much salt.
Pavda the child pulled out the bread without me and covered it with a plastic bowl! The second day we hammered in a little hump, but now I look, it almost leveled off, mine could not resist, they cut it hot. The pulp does not last ...
Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)

$ vetLana
Quote: NikaVS
Girls, something with this HP, I became an alarming truth. I wish everything was good.
Nika, not fools (at all) the Japanese came up with the HP-AUTOMATOR. Proceed from this.
SoNika
Quote: $ vetLana

Nika, not fools (at all) the Japanese came up with the HP-AUTOMATOR. Proceed from this.
I understood that, because so far, the results are encouraging. The spouse said that I want to put something on this bread ...
Waist
Lena, I brought you something to eat

I ran into idle "Spesiality / Single-grain" mode today

Leveling: 30 min - 1 h 15 min. Kneading: 15-30 min. Proofing: 1 h 50 min - 2 h 45 min. Baking: 55 min.

This is approximately, because it turned out to be not so easy to track changes in several parameters at once and record

HP - 2512 for Europe.
The kitchen was + 18 *.

Alignment - 30 minutes.
Mixing - intermittent - 2 minutes;
constant - 1 min.
The yeast dispenser has worked.
Rest - 1 minute.
Kneading: 1st - 10 min (25 sec - kneading, 5 sec - rest);
rest - 4-5 minutes;
2nd batch - 5 minutes (55 seconds - kneading, 5 seconds - rest).
Proofing: 3:39 - 25.8 * C.
1st proofing on average 27-28 * С;
1st workout - 45 seconds - 15 intermittent revolutions;
2nd proofing on average 27-30 * С;
2nd workout - the same as the first;
3rd proofing - within 30-33 * С.
Baking: T before baking 33 * C.
I checked the beginning of the program: for the first time, when mixing, I clearly counted 61 revolutions of the paddle in 25 seconds. When checking, she twisted it so much that I did not have time to count, I had to double the effect - I put my hand so that the scapula touched it while passing the circle, and counted about 100 revolutions of the scapula in 25 seconds.
I don't know why there is such a difference. Maybe because the second time I just opened the lid and looked, and the stove was heating the kitchen. During the test, the speed of the 1st and 2nd batch was the same.

Wlad
Quote: $ vetLana
the Japanese came up with the HP-AUTOMATIC
Svetlana,
Yeah ... they are cunning guys ... Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3)Bread makers Panasonic SD-2500, SD-2501, SD-2502 (3) they come up with everything well, it's a pity the Kidays are just doing
$ vetLana
Quote: Waist
I ran into idle "Spesiality / Single-grain" mode today
SoNika
Quote: Waist

I ran into idle "Spesiality / Single-grain" mode today
This is approximately, because it turned out to be not so easy to track changes in several parameters at once and record
On the waist, well you, you give! I never tire of being amazed at your experiments and knowledge
$ vetLana
Quote: NikaVS
The spouse said that I want to put something on this bread
Agree.
Let's hear what Lena has to say about the Single-grain mode. Interestingly, is it the same for all Panas models?
SoNika
It's a pity I can't treat you to bread and try yours


Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 09:33 PM

Quote: $ vetLana

Agree.
Let's hear what Lena has to say about Odnozernova.
Svetlana, how different we are, for example, I didn’t imagine him to taste like that - long-lasting and sweeter, maybe I didn’t cook the paste?
$ vetLana
Nika, I finished my previous post.
If you mean bread with choux pastry, then it is more tender than a French one. Have you already baked a classic Frenchman?
SoNika
Quote: $ vetLana

Nika, I finished my previous post.
If you mean bread with choux pastry, then it is softer than a French one. Have you already baked a classic Frenchman?
Not yet, Light, I have HP ... since February 23 only ... and while I have baked ... 8 types of bread. The Frenchman wasn’t our guest yet I don’t eat bread, or rather I didn’t eat it before, now I’m sweeping away the crusts ... I’ll try, compare, you, which one did you like more?
Waist
Quote: $ vetLana
Single grain mode. Interestingly, is it the same for all Panas models?
I know: - I have nothing to compare with. The recipes in 2500 and 2512 for Europe are the same.

Everything is measured and recorded very approximately, since I have no professional priblud for such measurements



Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 09:47 PM

Quote: NikaVS
maybe you didn't cook the paste?
I cooked with a thermometer. Kiselyok turned out like.



Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 09:49 PM

Quote: NikaVS
I don’t eat bread, or rather I didn’t eat it before, now I’m sweeping away the crusts ..
Beware, Nika, crusts are a drug. For many years now I have been unable to refuse a crust of bread and salt for breakfast with coffee.



Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 09:49 PM

Well, or I don't want to
fffuntic
Quote: Waist

liked
Now figure out how delicious it is to make the same sweet bun? I really love.


But if not laziness, and is ready for additional movements, then you can increase the effect of tenderness if to enlarge the degree of mixing.
The stronger the kneading in this bread, the softer and more unusual the final result will be. But for strong kneading, you need to prepare the flour for the load.
CZ does not belong here. They don't knead it much, I warn you right away
First, prepare, slightly strengthen the gluten, add a pinch of ascorbic acid or a couple of tablespoons of live whey to transfer the load.


For a sweet bun, it is best to use the Brioche program, but also do with standing.
This prog has the strongest kneading and short-term fermentation. What you need. But endurance from flour is also required.

Don't take the brioche for the bread. Brioche is good for strong baking only. Bread requires a longer fermentation.

If you are going to make bread, then make sure to double knead with standing on the main program. Only knead for the first time either by hand or on pizza So that the flour swells and kneads better during the main batch.
Put butter, plastic in pieces, not even immediately during the main batch, but 15 minutes before the end. To mix into already kneaded gluten will be even fluffier.

And ... there is another super-duper trick.
After the last kneading, take out the dough, spread it and roll it into rolls and put it in a bucket.

cloud.
Nika, the brewing must be strictly done, as I described. If you do it your way, then it will also be bread, possibly delicious, but
only such a brew guarantees him planned Japanese juiciness
One welding will not do the second viscosity of gluten. Its role is more tenderness, consistency and juiciness.
It makes it easier to get stringy, but only makes it easier.
Kneading gluten is responsible for the viscosity.
And in order to knead it well you need:
- air bun. Here, in principle, the softest dough.
- kneading more than the initial one. Do as I am for Natasha wrote above. Strengthen the gluten with something like acid, whey (a couple of tablespoons), a piece of sourdough and stand to get the best mix.
- you will do it with standing, before the main kneading, the whole bun should be so alive from the first minute to the last. Not something tight somewhere.

SoNika
On the waist, you can not only crust. I recovered already by 30 + - kg ... I always drank only green, sorry, decent tea, they brought it from everywhere, the locker was breaking, but I started to love coffee from a coffee machine, I threw it away
Lena, Natalia, did it strictly on video and boom. To the recipe (I’m a former chef), everything worked out right away, but the temperature was 57.5, and the traces of the trident were very obvious, I didn’t risk it anymore, especially since the consistency was homogeneous, tender, slightly steeper than kefir. Immediately placed on ice. And then to ing-you and that's it. What is there to be wise, it is not difficult, when you understand and do it yourself, more Do I worry
$ vetLana
Nika, I like it more with the zaprny test. The temperature was measured with a temperature probe.
SoNika
Yes, I was a little tug at the chalet, I beat on a bucket, I had to stroke it lightly with my wet hands. I added 60g. words into broth like you, you advised, then I will try with serum. Do sweet buns differ in the amount of sugar? Honey is not felt at all (white). Strong dark groin, I replaced it and everyone is happy.


Added Thursday, 09 Mar 2017 10:04 PM

Quote: $ vetLana

Nika, I like it more with the zaprny test. The temperature was measured with a temperature probe.
interesting - is it necessary to bring up to 65? They seemed to write that everything is by touch ...
fffuntic
Quote: Waist

Lena, I brought you something to eat

I ran into idle "Spesiality / Single-grain" mode today

Leveling: 30 min - 1 h 15 min. Kneading: 15-30 min. Proofing: 1 h 50 min - 2 h 45 min. Baking: 55 min.

This is approximately, because it turned out to be not so easy to monitor changes in several parameters at once and record


Kneading, if used for central locking, is quite weak. But if done with standing, then it turns out only 15 minutes of kneading, and only 5 minutes of intensive mixing. The first proofing is generally wonderful.
In general, yes, this is a very delicate regime. The best.

Therefore, uh-huh, you can use it for acceleration with central locking, but with standing. If without standing, then there will be little intensity for kneading. Very little. And with standing - that's it.

And if with standing .. in my opinion, a very promising regime for weak flour. Very
Waist
Something I doubted the accuracy of my notes Tomorrow I'll start with a batch again

Lena, thanks for the advice! I will try Only to bring it to European toast I will not - I do not like it Actually, in order to get away from this toast bread, I wanted HP so badly that my husband had to give it to me

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