Sourdough bread in the oven

[rinishek]

rinishek I constantly come across how I bought it, but now I see that it is not at all that ... narrow and does not diverge to the top
And how much is the diameter of your casserole-wok ??

inner diameter 33.5 cm, stewpan height - 9 cm + 4 cm lid

[rinishek]

rinishek, very airy bread turned out!
Svetik_, this is your torment. Therefore, it seems that the bread is cut warm. I often come across such torment. Especially whole grain rye. And peeled, oddly enough, always good.
Suslya, this is a brick!

I lubricate with non-stick grease, an excellent tool!
Everything is taken in the same proportions (flour, vegetable oil and fat), instead of fat, you can use ghee, and beat everything well. I store it in the refrigerator, although it is not necessary.

It is advisable to store such a lubricant in the refrigerator, since fat quickly ages outside the cold. And the oil is even faster.

[(Svetik_)]

Oh, and I've been looking for these forms under a brick for a long time, and I don't come across them in any way ... They definitely need to take two at once, and preferably three. One will not be enough.
And ukrvok (Svetik_) I saw something similar with us in Donetsk at the railway market, at the local flea market, asked for 90 gr. for him

[Zhivchik]

Zhivchik I have wheat flour, but the additive made a little different bread ....... Zernopan, I specially tried it, but it didn’t have much effect on the color, but finally I put sesame seeds in it, grain pan, I wanted a Village mixture, but I thought it would be a little too much , I am experimenting with mixtures ... for this and Lily and took ... I have a lot of these

[Zhivchik]

Zhivchik

[Suslya]

Suslya

For joy, I forgot to ask: what is the brick form from? Is it heavy?

Weight 336 gr., They said that this is an alloy of aluminum and something else, called sulimin.

I want to get permanent residence in Vinnitsa, we have such forms are three times more expensive.

[himichka]

certainly not the topic - but girls! tell me, why in our country the same products cost 12 UAH in Vinnitsa, and 30 in Ilyichevsk, the distance is not an argument - you can travel the whole country with a strong desire in one day

Expensive himichka , could you tell us in detail about the technology of proofing in the refrigerator ?. So, let's say I kneaded the dough (sourdough, it's a dough + a little yeast + everything else according to the recipe), and then how? wait until the program "Dough" is completely finished, or just make the kneading in HP, mold a loaf - and in the refrigerator? Then get it out - 1 hour in the heat - baking, right?
I'm afraid the dough will stop, or not, fears are in vain?

I beg your pardon, they were not allowed to the computer ...
I don't put it in the refrigerator now, I baked it like that a year ago. Tired of not sleeping until one in the morning, so the oven kneaded the dough in full, it seemed to me it was 1 hour 20 minutes, and in the cold until 6 in the morning, that is, at 7-8 hours. Warmed and baked in the morning. And she presented the stove to my sister, she played and threw it away, although my bread cracks for a sweet soul.

[himichka]

himichka , thanks for the answer.
I really had to put it in the refrigerator 10 minutes after mixing. I'll try and report back.
And my sister ... there are no words! Well this is how you can! Throw HP! blasphemy! barbarism!

[rinishek]

rinishek ! I can share my technique. In the evening after work, I knead wheat bread and immediately, covered with a film, put it in the refrigerator. A day later, that is, in the evening of the next day, I take it out, cut it into loaves in tins, heat it for 1-1.5 hours and bake it in the oven. Somewhere above, I described an experiment when one batch was divided in half and one part was baked, and the other the next day. After a long fermentation, the bread is softer.

[Kalmykova]

Natasha Kalmykova , oh thanks for the clarification
only my question is this - and this method is applicable if I add yeast - half of the recipe.
My today's experiment was unsuccessful - the bread from the refrigerator stood for 1.5 hours in the room, came up a little (maybe I didn't warm it enough), then I still sent it to the oven, and there it shamelessly blurred.
I read about the experiment. It turns out that just the 1st proofing takes place in the refrigerator, right? and the second, which before baking - after kneading the warmed dough, or rather shaped bread, right?

[rinishek]

rinishek ! I can share my technique. In the evening after work, I knead wheat bread and immediately, covered with a film, put it in the refrigerator. A day later, that is, in the evening of the next day, I take it out, cut it into loaves in tins, heat it for 1-1.5 hours and bake it in the oven. Somewhere above, I described an experiment when one batch was divided in half and one part was baked, and the other - the next day. After a long fermentation, the bread is softer.

What should be the temperature in the refrigerator for the dough, and how exactly should the dough be warmed, or is it simply the proofing of the dough in a warm place?

I have one refrigerator that holds 13 degrees - I tweaked it especially for sourdough. In it I do the long proofing. Having taken out the dough that came up from the refrigerator, I dump it out of the bucket (from the kitchen machine Kenwood for 6.7. L) onto a surface slightly floured with flour, fold it with an envelope a couple of times, divide it into parts with a scraper (I have kneaded into 3 loaves), each part still fold or roll and place in a greased rectangular shape. I put the forms on the drying rack for vegetables, put on a large bag on top, turn on the drying for a minimum and keep it there for 1-1.5 hours. During this time, the dough is doubled. Then I bake in the oven, sprinkling several times from the spray bottle at the beginning of baking. In the oven, the dough increases even more.
As for the yeast - I can not say anything, because I have never dealt with them. Before my "illness" in bread-baking, my mother always made yeast dough, but when I got here and learned about sourdough, I now bake only with sourdough. Honestly, I don't understand why yeast is added to the leavening dough. It seems we are trying to get away from GMOs, etc.

In my fridge + 4 * C also spends the night sometimes, everything is fine. Grows there as cute!

In my fridge + 4 * C also spends the night sometimes, everything is fine. Grows there as cute!

So it will grow, only part of the yeast varieties die, because they cannot stand temperatures below 10 degrees. The taste is depleted.

[Scarecrow,]

I had my second unsuccessful attempt at bread baking yesterday after cold proofing. Looks like not my method, I waved my hand - I will do everything as usual - this is how it turns out and why reinvent the wheel.
Although cold bread dough is very good at it.
Scarecrow, is it really that the taste is depleted? I read in LJ Ludmila about cold dough for buns and, in general, she speaks so well about proofing in the refrigerator - they say, it will be more aromatic.

Yes, there are recipes that use cold proofing. And starter and yeast. But in them you deliberately do it for a specific recipe and with a specific product. This is how you influence the taste.

The rest of the leaven, not placed in the refrigerator, remains with all the microflora. The rich taste of sourdough bread is precisely the set of many different yeast cultures and LAB. Some of them die irrevocably in the cold and no longer recover. Deadly, nothing of the end will happen, but if you break her and mess with her, then so that she is in full strength, I think so.

Luda herself wrote in her LiveJournal that the leaven should be stored at a temperature of at least 10-12 degrees. When she found out, she threw away all her starter cultures, because she kept them in the refrigerator and raised them again.

[Scarecrow,]

I had a second unsuccessful attempt at bread baking yesterday after cold proofing. Looks like not my method, I waved my hand - I will do everything as usual - this is how it turns out and why reinvent the wheel.
Although cold bread dough is very good at it.
Scarecrow, is it really that the taste is depleted? I read in LJ Ludmila about cold dough for buns and, in general, she speaks so well about proofing in the refrigerator - they say, it will be more aromatic.

And mine, too, yesterday, and also unsuccessful bread came out after cold proofing. The brick is real.

I absolutely agree about leavens - the rich experience of Lyudmila and other reputable bakers confirms this - wheat leavens do not tolerate cold.
But I don't put sourdough in the refrigerator, but a piece of bread.
I do not insist on cold proofing - 2-3 unsuccessful times were enough for me to abandon this method.
It’s just interesting to figure out - if the leaven clearly suffers from the cold, then why then the leavened bread benefits from cold proofing. Of course, not every recipe may be suitable for this technology, but still.
I was somewhere in Ludmilin LJ met her advice about "it is necessary to run away urgently, what to do with the bread that has just been kneaded", it was about leavened bread

And mine, too, yesterday, and also unsuccessful bread came out after cold proofing. The brick is real.

maybe it was just we had a bad day?

I absolutely agree about leavens - the rich experience of Lyudmila and other reputable bakers confirms this - wheat leavens do not tolerate cold.
But I don't put sourdough in the refrigerator, but a piece of bread.
I do not insist on cold proofing - 2-3 unsuccessful times were enough for me to abandon this method.
It’s just interesting to figure out - if the leaven clearly suffers from the cold, then why then the leavened bread benefits from cold proofing. Of course, not every recipe may be suitable for this technology, but still.
I was somewhere in Ludmilin LJ met her advice about "it is necessary to run away urgently, what to do with the bread that has just been kneaded", it was about leavened bread

A! So I misunderstood you. I thought you kept all the starter in the refrigerator.

Cold proofing slows down the fermentation of the bread. At the exit, the structure of the crumb changes at the product, but I cannot give the exact chemical layouts why and how, while I myself do not know. I like cold proofing, but for certain recipes. True, for the result to be really good - the manufacturing process slows down a lot. The dough takes a long time to rise in the refrigerator.

For example, I did it not so long ago. He needs almost three days:

https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=47617.0

Parisian whole grain also takes almost three days and is also fermented in the refrigerator ... and the result And Zest offers a version of proofing in the refrigerator, I tried it, and so and so, I did not feel much difference.
And my homemade sourdough is not from the refrigerator.

And I sooooo respect the proofing in the refrigerator, I kneaded it in the evening, baked it in the morning, it suits me and the crumb seems to me more rubbery or something ... somehow denser, and my bread after the refrigerator does not break, smooth as an egg (t-t- t)

[Suslya]

kneaded in the evening, baked in the morning,

Suslya, but it is possible in more detail - than kneaded, after how many minutes it was formed, in which it was sent to the refrigerator. And then she took it out - and baked it right away or what? Here Kalmykova kneaded - sent to the refrigerator - took out - cut - formed-distance-baked. How are you doing?
I reviewed the whole topic, and for some reason did not find a specific technology

Parisian whole-grain also takes almost three days and is also allowed to stand in the refrigerator ... and the result

And I didn't like Parisian. The crust turns out to be very thick and hard. Most likely from the fact that the dough was allowed to stand in the refrigerator.

[Suslya]

Suslya, but it is possible in more detail - than kneaded, after how many minutes it was formed, in which it was sent to the refrigerator. And then she took it out - and baked it right away or what? Here Kalmykova kneaded - sent to the refrigerator - took out - cut - formed-distance-bakes. How are you doing?
I reviewed the whole topic, and for some reason did not find a specific technology

I do as Zisinka wrote, wait, I'll look for it. And briefly this is so, kneading according to Iziuminka, that is, the 1st batch, so that everything is mixed, rest for about an hour, the 2nd batch, salt and oil are added. Then I mold it and send it to the refrigerator, put the bread in a bag or pull on a bathing cap (I spied on Raisin) In the morning I pulled it out, turned on the oven with a saucepan, while it is heating, so much bread is on the table, then I transfer it to a hot saucepan and cover it with a lid. 15 minutes at maximum, then I remove the lid and bake for 25-30 minutes at 200-220 C.
The crust is always soft, because under the lid. And I also do Parisian well.

Here about it https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=11837.0

Tell me, pzhlsta ... My rye dough ran away here, well, I didn't expect such a reagent
In general, I molded it again and split it into two baskets, just in case ...
I know that rye does not need extra boning, but still how critical is it? Do not throw it away? ...

my wheat ran three times - it is absolutely not critical to give time for a good proofing (it is clear that after the 10th time you should think about the expediency of baking)

And I, I feel, will switch to the form, well, I like this bread, I measured everything, wrote it down as promised


The recipe can be viewed here https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=52794.0

[Suslya]

Suslya Thanks again for the detailed cold proofing technology.
: :) Eeeh, how strong the spirit of experimentation is - I'll definitely try again, but what if it works?

And the bread is really - well, handsome! And the proofing, just like according to the written word - nowhere do you have a break, but an extra crack. Oh yes Suslya, oh yes well done!
And where is the recipe for the winner of the week in the "Most Beautiful Bread" contest?

[rinishek]

Thank you rinishek I'll open Temko then, and I'll make a link here, only later, otherwise they drive me away from the computer

otherwise they drive me away from the computer

What a familiar situation, just drop by drop on the day of that Internet is given out by the household loved ones - then play, then look for something
no, it's time to start collecting money for your own laptop!

[Suslya]

Can I show my tongue?

I have my own internet computer, to which I do not let anyone in!

Suslya

Announce the recipe for pzhalst.

And I didn't like Parisian because of its hard crust. Moreover, I don’t understand rye-wheat bread. I like specific ones more: either wheat or rye (Borodinsky is best). Regarding the cold proofing: as I understand it, acidity does not increase so quickly at low temperatures (MC bacteria work slowly), and yeast grows vigorously. As far as I understand, prolonged fermentation makes bread healthier.

Probably it is, but how do they not die there - MC bacteria? or influenced by the weight and moisture content of the workpiece.
In general, I will try again, this is exactly what it is - 2-3 failed experiments? minuscule statistical.

Why should they die? I have a temperature in the refrigerator of 13 degrees, and the starter cultures live there.

Why should they die? I have a temperature in the refrigerator of 13 degrees, and the starter cultures live there.

so not everyone has 13 * C in the refrigerator. I have here 7-8, Rybka, in my opinion, wrote - 6 * C.
It turns out that in the leaven ICB will die at a rate. below 10, but not in the dough piece, right?

They do not die immediately. They stop multiplying and gradually die out. We need to interview microbiologists.

Here is today's one in the second grade, with sprinkled wheat, after a long cold fermentation. The most delicate crumb, slightly rubbery, very bready aroma and taste.

[Kalmykova]

Kalmykova very beautiful!
and I did it from dispersed grain, but introduced it through the leaven - something I didn't like. The bread was kind of tough all week - either there was such a mood or the yeast was unimportant, who would understand it. So it didn't work out to boast of a dispersed grain bread

I added it both through the sourdough and directly into the dough - it does not affect the crumb. And what kind of yeast? Sourdough, and only leaven. Try adding a little more oil.

Good bread turned out to be such a hole, I respect

Thank you !

For a long time I want to say, somehow it didn't work out ..For me, it's still preferable to bread with the addition of a small amount of yeast - it turns out more airy. And on one sourdough it is more "rubbery". Well, yes, that's my opinion, taste and color ...

And the bread with dispersed grain is very good, I baked all last spring.

[Kalmykova]

Kalmykova Duc when is that bread to catch on sourdough? - came home from work at 6 - and at 10, preferably on the side already.
So I add half of the yeast. Yes, and this yeast does not scare me - against the background of a benzpyrene 10-fold concentration under my balcony due to the proximity of coke-chemical in the city center ... like 3 g of yeast, coupled with butter - well, such a problem
I use sourdough to achieve taste and structure, the goal of getting rid of yeast was not my goal

himichka , but intersnotically, I have grain from the last harvest, that is, I bought it, it seems, last spring or summer - m. I have it already, the old one?

[Kalmykova]

Oh girls, that's a reason to ask. This week I have my last opportunity to purchase 2nd grade flour. One garbage - packing 5 kg. Do you think it is necessary? I gradually trained myself the 1st grade, having previously tried it. Like. And about the 2nd grade, they take some doubts ...

Kalmykova , what awesome bread you have!

[Freken Bock,]

Freken Bock, why are we in doubt? I would take - 5kg is not 10 kg. You will not like the bread, you can feed the leaven

[Freken Bock]

Freken Bock

take it, take it, don't screw it up. I like the 2nd grade even more, the bread spirit is stronger from it. And if suddenly it comes across poor quality, then the leaven will eat, as you already kava suggested))