Kneading machines

1st time in the subject ... kick the newbie. For the second year I have been kneading rye (multigrain) whole grain by hand ... Sometimes it’s hard. Help with the choice of buying a kneader for tough (heavy) dough, which is already difficult to knead in a bowl and then manually stir. How does the poker remove the stuck dough from the walls in the bowl? If it is already hard to scrape it off? I read for a long time and hardly believe that this is possible ... I scrape with great effort from the walls with a steel spoon !!! Can a spatula scrape off like that ?!

[Citizen]

Citizen, Garik, tell me, please, how many grams of flour do you usually knead? If up to 500, then a Panasonic bread maker with a rye mode (a spatula for rye dough) copes well with this.

If there is more than 500 grams of flour, then I suggest looking towards Ankarsrum Original. I am very pleased with it for all types of the test you describe. And yes, the spatula, which is adjacent to the bowl, perfectly removes all the remnants of the dough. The main rule to remember is to add flour to water. This is exactly how the kneading should be done in this kneader.

This is my experience. Good luck with your choice!

[Sveta]

Sveta, Of course, the machine is fabulous, but the price .. it seems to me that something simpler can be, at least the same Bosch of this configuration

[zvezda]

zvezda, Ol, I don’t know about Bosch. She talked about her experience. Should not have?

Should not have?

Of course you do !! : girl_claping: and the machine is very interesting .. that's all, except for the price, I like it a lot. And in general it is interesting to learn about the new technique. So thank you! I'm just looking for a more budgetary option

Thanks, girls. The weight of the dough did not hang, but at the exit from the oven the loaf turns out four hundred kilo - six hundred kilo. But the rule is flour in water ... um, it's not clear, I never add water. When kneading in a bowl, where the dough came up, I add alternately a little flour (amaranth, spelled, flaxseed, oatmeal, the main rye course (all whole grain)), different seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame, caraway seeds), pre-steamed malt (watery gruel with honey), and then steamed flax seed in advance (such a snotty gruel turns out + I dissolve salt in it). Well, there is also a type of stevia, Jerusalem artichoke ... I don't add pure water at all. The procedure is painfully long, from 40 minutes to an hour, and it takes manual kneading.
Ankarsrum Original is probably a good thing, but the price is immodest. We need to save money along the way.

These kneaders are also highly praised

рф / katalog / testomesil_naya_mashina_miss_baker_pro
рф / katalog / testomesil_naya_mashina_alpha_2g

[leostrog]

leostrog, you, how to put it mildly then, are kidding? 360 and 280 thousand how is it?

Why am I kidding?
there are people who bake "for sale" or they have their own small business and they need such a kneader. I know one Moscow blogger who got so carried away with baking. that now works in a small bakery with exactly this scale of equipment. And one more amateur baker / pastry chef. buyout bought such kneaders. (I can give links to their LJ). And with Kitchenaid, Kenwood, or even Ankarstrum, that number won't work.

[leostrog]

These kneaders are also highly praised

for the people of Ankarsrum Original - the price is not humane, but here it is really an inflection

Are you kidding me, how can I put it mildly?

, join the question
I think that the technique on the leostrog links is still not for home ...: umnik2: although ...

no, well, of course, there are those who do not count money, but I think they go to restaurants, have their own chefs ... maybe they will buy for them, and so

leostrog, this is understandable, but I think here people are asking for advice to help choose equipment for home use and of course more budgetary. The professional technique is from another opera, and I think they won't come here for advice

Well, let it be for general information.
I bought myself a Kenwood major premium - exclusively as a dough mixer (and I bought a mill attachment in pair with it).
I use it for about 3-4 years. I use it only as a kneader about once a week, or even less.I make heavy rye / rye-wheat dough approximately from the calculation of no more. than 800 g of flour, butter yeast or brioche for 400-500 g of flour.
As a kneader, it is not bad, but it has already been repaired twice (some kind of axle, then drive belts and gear drives, are made. Apparently, from "so-so" quality of plastic). although I have always followed all the recommendations for speeds and quantities. And both times I waited a long time for the necessary parts.
Before him, a kenwood patisserie was used as a kneader - and it was a very bad kneader (you had to stop and wait for the engine to cool down).
Now I would look towards the OptiMUM from Bosch.

OptiMUM from Bosch.

an interesting model, of course the price too, especially with built-in scales ..

but again, who is fond of, for example, baking cakes to order, then as an assistant you can consider it pays. And if once a week for yourself, then. I have Kitchen and everything suits me well, except for the lack of a protective cover., I also knead dough for Borodino bread and simple yeast, dumplings, for dumplings (thanks to Natalia Chuchelka for the recipe, I adore it,), and of course the rest of the dough and cream, and it suits that he can whip up one protein. At the same time, the teenage daughter is fond of dessert baking and uses it in her tail: yes: While he is completely satisfied with TTT, I do not look towards others

As a kneader - it is not bad, but it has been repaired twice already

sorry, sad experience

I'm not a big fan of electronics technology - after all, electronics tend to break. and then change such an electronic board. if she "orders to live long" - it will be worth a lot of money.
Therefore, the built-in scales - as for me, this pampering is unnecessary and wasted money.
Although it is clear that the emphasis is now on any such "smart" electronics.
Yes. here is reliable. strong. solid kneader and not made of junk plastic inside - what is it?
I'm interested too:))

about 3-4 years /]
I have been using 020 for 10 years !! I drive it to the fullest and even worked on it on all programs .. etc., everything is fine. Now I bought 9060 with induction and for a year now, I can't get enough of it.
I also have a Bosch, not the one you are talking about, but quite good, and, of course, he will NEVER cope with a test like Kenwood!
I write objectively because I can compare over time.

[Zvezda]

Zvezda , it is just logical that the Kenwoods that were made earlier (your 10 years old) are more durable and of higher quality.
They were made with a much greater safety margin. They are even different in weight. That is, their "guts" were made of other materials and with the expectation that a housewife would use such a device for many years.
Interesting - you could look at the bottom of your instrument. where was your Kenwood made?

Off:

there is plastic and there is plastic.
I have a Husquarna sewing machine made in Sweden - it is already 17 years old and many parts there are made of different plastics. But, mmm., So far I have only changed a burned-out light bulb in it.

[leostrog]

I bought myself a Kenwood major premium - exclusively as a dough mixer (and I bought a mill attachment in pair with it).
I use it for about 3-4 years. I use it only as a kneader about once a week, or even less often. I make heavy rye / rye-wheat dough approximately from the calculation of no more. than 800 g of flour, butter yeast or brioche for 400-500 g of flour.
As a kneader, it is not bad, but it has already been repaired twice (some kind of axle, then drive belts and gear drives, are made. Apparently, from "so-so" quality of plastic). although I have always followed all the recommendations for speeds and quantities. And both times I waited a long time for the necessary parts.

leostrog, so you had the Kenwood Premier, or am I confusing something?

where was your Kenwood made?

I looked .. in China. But after all, this does not mean anything at all Sneakers since my youth were made only in China or ( Taiwan it seems) ,, factories simply locate their production on the territory of China and carry out all control by OWN!
I bought induction a year ago .. (and another induction is already 2 years old) and everything works fine.

I bought myself a Kenwood major premium - exclusively as a dough mixer (and I bought a mill attachment in pair with it).
I use it for about 3-4 years. I use it only as a kneader about once a week, or even less often. I make heavy rye / rye-wheat dough approximately from the calculation of no more. than 800 g of flour, butter yeast or brioche for 400-500 g of flour.
As a kneader - it is not bad, but it has been repaired twice already

And Kenwood, as a dough mixer, did not really suit me, even my daughter's penny small Boshik with Ali makes yeast dough better. (((
So I repaired an old Panasonic bread maker and now it works as a kneader again every day, and I still bake in the oven.
* yes, I understand that the hook is kneading, which does not negate the fact that my not cheap Kenwood does not have the right hook for yeast dough.

But I wanted to know, since there is a conversation about Kenwoods, is it possible to consider the Kenwood 242 combine, is it needed as a mixer for biscuits / creams, and can the dough be kneaded for dumplings / bread, or is it quite weak?
Can anyone have one?
I understand that he is not like the steep Kenwoods, which are 40-50 thousand, but the funds allow something up to 10-13 thousand?
I would be glad to receive any information!

[Lena!]

I have not achieved much success in baking at all,
Lena! You didn’t mix, but you managed to do it great .. and taught us

These kneaders are also highly praised

The one for 360 thousand is Häussler, which we discussed in connection with a very interesting test-review of 6 cars. (link a couple of pages of dialogue)
Kenwood kitchen machine: working with attachments # 1756

But briefly if - Kenwood finished second. The first is Hassler. Although, of course, a specific Kenwood with a specific hook. And yet, they talk about Hassler's spinning bowl (but with a flat wide bottom), which is compensated for in household kitchens. machines with bowls with a narrowed bottom, which allows mixing.

And 360 thousand - a hell of a cheat. Even at the current exchange rate, this is more than 4.5 thousand euros, although in Germany Hassler can be bought from 1650 + - euros.

🔗

I use it for about 3-4 years. I use it only as a kneader about once a week, or even less often.

Any brand is in trouble. I have been reading Kenwood topics for about 4 years, and questions with fixes come up very rarely there. But I understand that if this extreme rarity fell out to someone, then it is he who no longer really likes a particular brand. And vice versa - whoever has not encountered the service loves and praises.

yes, I understand that the hook is kneading, which does not negate the fact that my by no means cheap Kenwood does not have the right hook for yeast dough.

If about a spiral for 4.6 liters. - KW716547

[Olya]

Olya, judging by the sixes instead of the letter "b" was it mine?))) In memory of my most adored keyboard, who died a heroic death on the battlefield on the Internet.

Thank you, but the laurels are definitely not mine, that's it stolen invented before us ...

By the way, if someone does not understand, then I love Kenwood as a mixer - beats / wipes / mixes and everything else is great!
But as a dough mixer for a perfectionist, my 4.6-liter model is definitely not the best choice! Maybe someday, the right hooks will reach our market and they will cost reasonable money ... then yes, it will be possible to use it exactly for what we gave 40 thousand a couple of years ago, but not now.

So for the role of kneaders, it is necessary to select only full-displacement machines with the correct hook.
(not aware of Prospero)

Well, in the subject ... Not so long ago, an employee pleases me that she now also with the right mixer and dough mixer - she bought it in the Redmond Ribbon. She was very pleased, but I do not know her requests, she boasted to me a perfectly whipped charlotte. Less than a month ... and now Redmond is under repair.

[Lena]

Lena, I saw this Redmond in the Ribbon ... out of curiosity, I approached, lifted the bed with a button - it was no longer possible to lower it .... I sideways and walk ...

I'm sideways and walking ...

Well.)))

I tell her - hand it back, buy it for 6 thousand Boshik on Ali, my daughter drives such a tail and mane every day (who would have thought that my long-grown girl, who can hardly imagine where the kitchen is in the house, suddenly will close up with such a noble culinary specialist, where is there for me !!)

And she replies, "Let it be repaired, I will find another use for six thousand."


So everyone has their own priorities.

[Bijou]

Bijou, Lena, and what is your daughter Boshik?

To be fair, the same one-to-one Homeclub mixer is sold in the same Lenta at the same time, but I have not seen it unpacked.

[Trishka]

Trishka, yes, the most ordinary, small, I will not say the number offhand now ... 4855, or what ... 600 (?) watts and with a plastic bowl, a meat grinder, a cutter with graters and a jug-blender. I posted photos of the batch in the subject, but this is what .. About Boshi, I guess.

It almost always cost about 6700 there, then, not so long ago, I saw it for 6400. Since this is Timall, the courier delivered it free of charge in three days.

the same one-to-one Homeclub mixer

Well, of course ... Not for Redmond himself to make mixers!

The one for 360 thousand is Häussler, which we discussed in connection with a very interesting test-review of 6 cars. (link a couple of pages of dialogue)
Kenwood kitchen machine: working with attachments # 1756

This review has passed me by until today. I read it with great interest and wanted to bake this bread, by the way. Myakish - how I love

I would like to draw your attention to one user comment and the answer to it by the author of the article, namely:

3. Claudia:
I have been using Kenwood Chef for 10 years. At first I was very pleased, but often there was a problem that the dough rises and disappears through the rubber seal in the body. Then the test hook was broken and the machine's gearbox was broken. Since then, when I kneaded the dough for a long time in accordance with Lutz Geissler's recipes, the machine no longer runs, it gets hot, it stinks and "hangs" (just buzzes). Now I need a new car. But I would not recommend Kenwood ...!

4. Katarina:
Dear Claudia,
In the test (from the word test) it was mentioned that very good test results only come with a hook for the Kenwood Cooking Chef or Major test. Unfortunately, cheaper models like the Kenwood Chef you own cannot be used with a professional dough hook, so the Kenwood Chef models are probably more KitchenAid-like.
We have been using Kenwood Cooking Chef for 1 year and highly recommend them.

[Bijou]

Bijou, Lena, thank you, and I'll look at him

very good test results only come with a Kenwood Cooking Chef or Major test hook. Unfortunately, cheaper models like the Kenwood Chef you own cannot be used with a professional dough hook, so the Kenwood Chef models are probably more KitchenAid-like.

Q.E.D.)))
And so that Bijusi's words do not look in vain.

Well, for a change, Kenwood's correct dough hook is just the opposite, more like KitchenAid's hook than they want to admit to themselves (and others).

Q.E.D.)))

I believe that this is extremely important when members of the forum are interested in and choose Kenwood precisely as a kneader, and also for rye bread ... That is, only top models can be considered and recommended

I believe that this is extremely important when forum users are interested in and choose Kenwood precisely as a dough mixer

Well, what do you think Bijou is there is a plug in every hole mentions it so often during selection and discussion? Not because of the harmful nature of the same.))
Namely because of a sense of justice!

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki, the hook is a very important thing, half of the success (we will leave half to the person and the recipe). Before the spiral hook, the Majors (i.e. large bowls) also had not the best hook, but with the skill, it was also approx.

Chef - previously all cars with a small bowl were called, and all with a large bowl were called Major.Well, the second word defined the class - Titanium, Premier, Classic, etc. Now the concept has changed, now everything is Chef. Small bowl is just Chef, big bowl Chef XL, induction bowl Cooking Chef. Therefore, when reading old comments, this must be taken into account. And here we mean a car with a 4.6L bowl.

Now there is a spiral hook for the small bowl. The new spiral hooks are thinner and lighter, but the shape for the small and large bowls is the same, only the height is different, respectively. And the one with a spatula in the review - even induction is no longer completed. And kitchen enthusiasts. machine with a bowl of 6.7 liters. they buy it for themselves. There is a difference between them in work, although I have not seen a normal comparison. You can buy the simplest Kenwood with a 6.7 liter bowl, replace all the silumin nozzles with flagship stainless steel there, and so increase the class of the car.

In principle, this is all with pictures here Hooks Kenwood
.

[Miranda]

Miranda, karoch, in your Kenwood wilds models are difficult to understand. What can you recommend, then, based on that review by Geissler?

Now there is a spiral hook for the small bowl. The new spiral hooks are thinner and lighter, but the shape for the small and large bowls is the same, only the height is different, respectively.

And the power of the one with the 4.6 bowl is the same? Rye dough - it is ...

You can buy the simplest Kenwood with a 6.7 liter bowl.

But after all, in the review, they say that they do not recommend the simplest model for rye dough - the power will not be enough. I'm confused

Well, for a change, Kenwood's correct dough hook is just the opposite, more like KitchenAid's hook than they want to admit to themselves (and others).

Which hook is similar?
Here is a picture from the review



Top left - Kenwood, right - Hassler. Thermomix knife.
Bottom left to right - Ankarsrum, Kitchen, Bosch.

Namely because of a sense of justice!

I completely agree!

I'm confused

At the time of the review, the simplest machines were with plastic bowls, with little power. Now there are no protozoa with plastic (in the sense that they do not produce it, so you can find leftovers on sale), the minimum power is 1000W. I do not know if the rye dough will last.

Power in the same class depends on the bowl. With a smaller bowl, 200 less. For example, just Chef and Chef XL - 1000/1200, respectively. And the flagship Titanium - 1500/1700, respectively.

But the topic is not about the Kenwoods
If it is necessary for the price, I would advise you to take a closer look at kneaders such as Gastorag QF (5 or 7 - the figure indicates the displacement of the bowl) or Starfood M5A. See them in prof. equipment for restaurants and bars. From 20 to 30 it is quite possible to keep within.

For example,

titanservice.su/equipment/khlebopekarnoe_oborudovanie/miksery_planetarnye/

They are so with a similar brutal design

[Kitchen]

Bottom left to right - Ankarsrum, Kitchen, Bosch.

Yes?

And then what is it?

[Miranda]

Which hook is similar?

No, no, Kenwood's standard hook is like Kitchen's, or vice versa. And it doesn't matter who borrowed what from whom. Both brands have been producing planetary mixers for a very long time.

But the topic is not about the Kenwoods

Duc it is clear that not only the Kenwoods are a topic, but I understand for myself, if I got into the review, get to the bottom of the truth

Thank you, Miranda



Comments on the review SUPER interesting! It mentions the Braun KM32 retro kneader. Who cares, go to German ibey, enter into a search engine and look at the machine and its prices. Mentioned as an excellent kneader for centuries ... I immediately associate with household appliances of the USSR

And then what is it?

My question is without a trick - I don't know anything about kitschen. But they obviously have several types.

Both brands have been producing planetary mixers for a very long time.

Yeah, and a lot of hooks were released.
And there is also prof. technique, there is a spiral hook for 50+ years. So I think, if anyone has Perly, then Prof. kneaders

My question is without a trick - I don't know anything about kitschen.But they clearly have several types.

Duc and I with sincere bewilderment.
Because an honest compiler of the picture should be able to accommodate comparable models. And then at Kenwood, you see, only different from the top cars, and at Kitchen only from a model similar to Prospero? They are very similar, at first she took this one for Kenwood.

And where are those wretched ones who are multidirectional and with a spatula, along which all the dough crawls into heaven and nifiga does not mix?

I'm talking about these:

[Bijou]

Bijou, about the honesty of the review - not for me
Why did they take this kind of kitsch - because the best-selling one or because there was a second thought - God knows.

If we talk about Kenwood, then I would recommend having a spiral hook to it. That is, if initially the junior model is not equipped with a spiral hook, buy it in addition. As for a model with a large bowl, as for a small one.

And what differences the Kitchens have in terms of hooks, whether there are any, etc., are not at all aware of.

[Bijou]

And Kenwood, as a dough mixer, just didn't really come to me

Bijou, Lena, similarly, I have Kmix. I use it as a mixer and a meat grinder, knead the minced meat. I prefer to knead the dough in a bread maker. Many times faster and better.

[Sonadora]

Sonadora,
That would have told me who this is a few years ago ... Either I was so stupid - I sort of read the topic and didn't make the right conclusion. Because, in general, the purchase of a mixer was out of necessity - I was no longer satisfied with the dough that I could get by other methods.

And kneading with slaps on the tabletop for 700 coups is not a great job for every day.

[Bijou]

And by the way, about the honesty of the review ... My back thought flew by and did not stay, but now I will say ... My beloved Ankarsrum - they showed only the machine itself and how it weighs the yeast. Where is the dough in the bowl? What an injustice ...

And now I understand what she is talking about Bijou

Because an honest compiler of the picture should be able to accommodate comparable models. And then at Kenwood, you see, only different from the top cars, and at Kitchen only from a model similar to Prospero?

Yes !!! Kitchen has a professional version with a bowl over 6 liters !!! So they put clearly not comparable models in a row ...

[Miranda]

Miranda, at the top there are 2 hooks from KenwoodKukingshef, from the previous cookie and from the new one, the Hessler has a hook with a crossbar and it is not there.

I brought a photo of the batch in Boshik, because I could not find something in the subject, but it would turn out to be just the topic of conversation. Kenwood tomorrow I will try to take a picture at the same 10 minutes.

[Svetlenki]

Svetlenki, Svetlana, if you were choosing a kneader now, what would you buy? KenwoodKukingshef, or Ankasrum? Here I sit and think, for almost a year, I read everything.

at the top there are 2 hooks from KenwoodKukingshef, from the previous cookie and from the new one.

I also thought so at first and even wrote, then corrected it.

Is this a Hassler?

[Bijou]

Bijou, yes, too, but the model must be looked at

I still do not exclude this option. I think that the problem is with me, that I do not feel the specifics of the dough being kneaded with a hook. All forty minutes I beat myself on the hands so as not to transfer the dough into the bread maker.

Wow ... Doesn't the dough overheat in forty minutes?
No, it's over 10 minutes in Boshik, as I wrote earlier in the topic and I have no reason not to trust myself.))

But Kenwood also tried to drive longer. There has never been such elasticity as in the photo above - the bottom licks and overheats when rubbing against the bowl, and the top all lumpy climbs up the hook. Constant stops and attempts to change this business in places do not lead to anything, alas. ((Well, if you knead for a very long time, then the dough flows stupidly and loses all connection with each other.

at the top there are 2 hooks from KenwoodKukingshef, from the previous cookie and from the new one, the Hessler has a hook with a crossbar and it is not there.

This is a review and photo of the spring of 15, i.e. 3.5 years ago. There was still no new induction and no such hook for Kenwood.

Hassler has (or was then) a hook and without a crossbar /