"Rye" tips from Gasha

Thank you

I have been using the same Panasonic SD-255 bread maker for 2 years now.
the same problem.
I can't bake rye bread for 2 years.
Moreover, I bought my mother-in-law the same bread maker. On principle, I even took her stove from her for a test.
The result is the same.
It turns out a small unbaked brick.
What is the reason?
I do everything according to the recipe. And I also used a recipe book from a bread machine and third-party recipes.
White bread turns out great, but rye bread never turned out.
And so today. I have already set it to normal mode. Tea bread from a recipe taken from the Android application "Bread Maker" ...
Result:

Hands are already falling.
I think it's all about the bread maker.
Yeast Saf-moment (wheat is done with a bang). I tried different rye flour - the result is deplorable.
All other components are accurate to the gram / milliliter.

HELP!!!

[Read]

I help:

1. Read the first three posts of this topic. Exactly - read, not skim.

2. Find there about the use of the Rye mode .... About the lack of baking ... About the fact that the bread is low

3. "Tea bread from a recipe taken from the Android application" Bread Maker "

Could you write this recipe?

4. It's not about the bread maker

Dachshund ... Advisor !!! You will advise me here right now, I feel ...

Rolandsik, I sincerely ask you not to interfere !!!

Tips like - add chemistry or use a mixture - not my topic! Did you agree?

3. "Tea bread from a recipe taken from the Android application" Bread Maker "
Could you write this recipe?

Yeast - 1.5 tsp.
Wheat flour - 250 g
Rye flour - 250 g
Salt - 1.5 tsp.
Honey - 1.5 tbsp. l.
Vegetable oil - 1 tbsp. l.
Strong infusion of black tea (without tea leaves) - 350 ml
Mode - Standard
Filled - no
Bread size - XL
Crust - light
Output - 750 g

Advice:
Try to buy a "package" bread type bread "in a box" there are sets from different manufacturers.
There I tried Khlebburg.

I tried it.
In Kiev, I have not seen exactly this, but those that I bought turned out. But the family doesn't like them. The wife and child do not eat them.

Why did you set such a large size? And "Light crust" confuses me too. Your recipe is easy, I mean that with such a ratio of rye and wheat flour, there should be no problems ... Have you tried to bake bread not in automatic modes? Maybe he doesn't have enough time for proofing on the machine?

Why did you set such a large size? And "Light crust" confuses me too. Your recipe is easy, I mean that with such a ratio of rye and wheat flour, there should be no problems ... Have you tried to bake bread not in automatic modes? Maybe he doesn't have enough time for proofing on the machine?

Well, according to the instructions, it was written that way, that's why I took this size ...
The light crust actually turned out to be normal. (see photo above)
And what is "non-automatic mode". In my bread maker, you cannot program a sequence of actions (as, say, in a washing machine). Therefore, can take another regime?

PS: I read the first posts. Of course, I simply do not have the opportunity to conjure and "stand" over the bread.

Well, you can find an opportunity ... At least - as an experiment on the weekend. Try French or Whole Grain. I don't have instructions at hand right now. In general, choose a mode with a longer proofing and baking time.

The size must be accurately set smaller. Try adding a little less yeast and water ...

OK. I will try. Thank you.
But how do you know about a longer proofing and baking time if only the total time is written?
By the way, if you choose the "rye" mode, then generally half an hour less than the usual ...

You read the instructions, there were described modes somewhere, and on our website look

There is an instruction.
But it describes the programs themselves.
It is not described there that, for example, the 1st stage lasts 30 minutes, the 2nd - 50 minutes, etc.
How do you know that at some point the bread maker needs to be stopped.
Moreover, it will not be possible to start the program from the second procedure.
Or I don't understand something ...

[Kuresa]

Why are you going to stop? How and what to set the modes manually - I wrote out in the first posts ... You said that you do not want to do this ... I suggested that you try

Try French or Whole Grain. I don't have instructions at hand right now. In general, choose a mode with a longer proofing and baking time.

Kuresa, I'm trying to help you ... Please, at least read my answers carefully ...

[Here]

You read the instructions, there were described modes somewhere, and on our website look

Here extensive topic on the Panasonic bread maker, where you can find the schedule of modes

Thank you so much.
I will not argue. I'll try it on the weekend. Unsubscribe on the result.

Good luck!

Gasha, I will add, can I? ..
and without waiting for an answer
behold here there is a table with modes and in front of the 1st column the cooling time is indicated, it may be useful
and bread with rye flour content from 50% in HP on the machine is better to bake on the "rye" mode, if there is one. there is no kneading and the bread has time to rise before baking
she once indulged herself until she grew the leaven

[Gasha]

Gasha good day. I often bake black bread in a bread machine. The ratio of rye flour to wheat flour is 70/30 or 60/40. The bread is delicious. baked, but I can’t choose a single program for black bread .. There is an individual program in my oven, but even on it I can’t select the modes. Either before you have to forcibly turn it off, then there is not enough time set. You wrote that for rye dough you only need one short knead of 15 minutes, proofing, baking. This does not work on an individual program. It is impossible to remove the 2nd batch and between the 2nd and 3rd proofing, the dough is smoothed, which leads to its falling off. And the roof of the bread is always flat, though not collapsed. Of course, I don't have enough experience, but I really want to choose the right mode and get a convex upper crust. Can advise on how to deal with the problem.

[Gasha]

Hello, Gasha!
I'm glad I came across this topic, because I want to bake rye bread for the first time according to this recipe:
Fresh yeast 20 g
Wheat flour 300 g
Rye flour 260 g
Salt 2 tsp
Sugar 2 tbsp. l.
Rast. oil 2 tbsp. l.
Serum 400 ml
The recipe is taken from here: https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=157720.0 and slightly adjusted to suit my tastes and product availability.
I usually bake like this: I mix sugar with water and yeast (if pressed), flour there, knead it on the "Dumpling dough", let it stand for 30 minutes for the development of gluten (in the switched off bread maker or on 1 program. I have a Panasonic 2501), then, during kneading, I add yeast (if dry), salt and oil.
How to proceed now? The recipe contains both wheat flour and rye, almost equally ... The author simply bakes on the "Rye Bread" program without bothering with dough.
Maybe I should mix some of the water with sugar, yeast and only wheat flour, let the gluten develop, then add salt and butter to the "Pelmeni dough" kneading, and then, as you taught, turn off the oven, let it come up and bake in the "Baking" mode ?!
Or not bother and bake exactly according to the recipe, because the author turns out bread only in one mode - "Rye bread" ?!
I would like to do it better ... And if in the end it will be necessary to set the baking time itself - how much to set? What do you recommend - 1 hour 10 minutes or less?
I would be grateful for your advice!

Can you advise how to cope with the problem.

I would remove the stirring paddle after the first batch

[Alinenok]

Alinenok, there is not much rye flour in your recipe, so the bread should turn out in any case. What prevents you from experimenting and baking this bread in different ways? Then the conclusions - about how best - do it right

I advised baking for about ten hours for breads with a large content of rye flour ... In your case, maybe an hour will be enough ... Again, check ... Bake, and you will immediately understand ...

Tata, Arochka gave absolutely correct advice ... Good luck!

Natashik, thank you, dear !!!

Gasha, tell me please, I have a LG HB-155CJ stove recently. Yesterday I finally bought panifarin and baked rye-wheat bread according to your recipe (Darnitsky for my husband). I understood the essence of the recommendations about rye bread, but in my oven there is not a single program with one batch, and the first batch is usually 7 minutes, then 5 minutes of rest and another kneading for 7 or 12 minutes. Therefore, during the first batch, I helped with a spatula, and then I put the covered bucket in the oven with the light on for 1.5 hours. Then she baked a cupcake on the program, this is the only program without kneading for 60 minutes. The bread turned out to be very tasty, but quite dense. There is also a program "French" there, first 20 minutes warming up, and then 13 minutes the first batch and 50 minutes of rest before the second. Or maybe my oven is generally not very suitable for rye bread. Help with advice.

Olya, seven minutes of kneading is enough for a rye bun, so you did everything right ... The dough should be allowed to stand not exactly for an hour and a half, but until it doubles ... But the recipe for Darnitsa rye flour contains only 60 percent, so it can be baked and in automatic modes, that is, you can make two kneads, since there is enough wheat flour, and gluten will develop ... The density of the bread depends on the amount of liquid and on how well the dough has risen ... So that experiment, and you will succeed! As for the French mode, I love using it for Darnitskiy, but we love the crisp crust, and this mode turns out exactly this ... Good bread to you!

Thank you so much for your immediate response, confidence has increased significantly. I will strive to improve the quality. I'm already thinking about changing my LG, Panasonis has more room for experimentation.

Dear Gasha, help with advice. I just can't understand the optimal proofing of rye. When it seems to me that it has increased 2-2.5 times, it turns out that it has already stopped! Somewhere on the forum, I don't remember in what topic, the "rule of the first bubble" was discussed. Could you take a picture of this bubble as a sign of ready-to-bake rye bread? And further. Now, if I am late and the bread has stood still, can I knead it in order to leave it on the rise again, or nothing can be fixed? When I smeared the top of the bread with an egg for the last time, it began to fall under the brush, which means it also stopped (the roof was not nostril, was it smooth)? Sorry, I have so many questions, my head is spinning. Again, somewhere, on the forum, I read that the oven needs a maximum proofing, but not for CB, since at the beginning of baking in CB, the bread will additionally rise. Explain, pzhlst, I'm so clumsy, how to actually understand this difference? Baking in the oven and in the oven, nothing happens. I really want a bread with a beautiful convex roof.

[irinapanf]

irinapanf , but you can't get any specific bread ??? Do you bake with yeast or sourdough?

Now it's leavened. The recipe is as follows: sourdough 200g
dry yeast half a teaspoon
sugar 1 tbsp. l.
vegetable oil 1 tbsp. l.
130 ml water
rye flour 100g
wheat flour 195gr
kvass wort 1 tbsp. l.

I also experimented, replacing 50 grams of wheat flour with semolina, I had to add a little water.

You have yeast (quite a lot), and leaven, and wort. In this situation, the dough should rise quickly enough. How long do you keep and at what temperature?

I keep it in the oven at 34 degrees. At first, I set the rise for 3 hours, but most often, closer to the end of the second hour, I already put the oven on. Apparently, you need to put it even earlier.

Try earlier. As for the "first bubble", this is the rule for the oven.

So yeast total half a teaspoon. Need even less?

Well, you can bake with sourdough without yeast at all, and half a teaspoon without sourdough can bake full-fledged bread. The question is not a lot, a little, but the fact that with such a quantity of proofing cannot be long.

URAAAA !!!! Tyts tyts tyts! I got a rye with a convex roof !!!! And without yeast at all, with leaven !!!

Try earlier. As for the "first bubble", this is the rule for the oven.

And where to read about the first bottle? I bake in the oven and multe, there is no bread machine.

[irinapanf]

irinapanf, Congratulations!

Anna1957 , I don't know where it is written. It means that when the first puzerek appears on top of the rye (wheat-rye) sourdough, then it's time to put it in the oven.

ABOUT! Here for me, apparently here ..

Mistletoe, Gasha, please tell me about my problem .. It is quite similar to the previous question, but still different.
I bake pure rye with sourdough (we love them very much) not according to specific recipes, but "by eye" .. At first, I got a good "exactly 2 times suitable" bread. You take it out straight from the stove and you can see a slightly more fried strip in the center along the side crust (what it was originally and how it rose). But the crumb was a little "damp". I started on this one https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=155100.0 recipe, but poured a little less water and took not dry kvass, but malt concentrate.

Then I began to gradually reduce the amount of water in order to achieve a drier crumb, but then the bread became denser and heavier, despite raising it 2 times. I returned all the water, as I had poured it before, but the trouble is, now my bread "settles" during the baking process. After smoothing the dough in a bread maker, I poke a toothpick into it (to find out the "depth" of the dough layer) and then mark the level on the wall with flour to which I should rise. It rises, I turn on the baking and at first it grows a little, and then the whole thing is blown away. It is not the roof that collapses, but the whole thing itself settles, and at the end of baking, my flour-marked level is directly visible half a centimeter above the roof ... the original dough layer. And inside it is quite dense and, again, with a damp crumb. Further experiments with water do not lead to anything worthwhile. I tried to turn on the baking once without waiting for a double rise, but it turned out again "hard" and you can see from the side that everything is also a 1.5-fold increase in output.

Tasty, but I want a dry, porous crumb. Tell me how to achieve it?
By the way, a convex roof never worked, although there was never a concave roof. It is always flat.
What is the approximate flour / liquid ratio in rye? How should a pure rye flour dough look like after kneading? After kneading, I don't even smell like a kolobok, it's just mass, and when I removed the water, the crumb became very dense, although before the kolobok, even smeared, it was still like before Shanghai ..

I now have something like this recipe:
Starter cultures - 200-350g (I remove the corresponding amount of flour and water from the total)
Flour total - 525gr
Total water - 385gr
Malt 1 st. l of concentrate
Salt - 1.75 tsp
Rast oil - 1.75 st. l.

Today I tried to pour water according to the "original" Alarim recipe (+ 40g to mine), I always poured less, as a result, the loaf settled again, and I will look at the crumb in the evening.

In general, I was completely confused. I look forward to advice from experienced!

[Sparkle]

Sparkle, rye sourdough breads live here

There are experienced people!

The exact ratio of flour-water does not exist, because flour can be of different moisture content, and leavens of different thicknesses, and the desired result is different. Someone loves dense, low, fine-porous bread, then they take less water. Such breads can be baked both on the hearth and in the form. Lovers of large pores add more liquid to the dough; it is better to bake such bread in the form.

The problem with the roof depends not only on the amount of liquid, but also on the time of proofing, and on the technology (temperature plays an important role) of baking. "Dancing at the stove" everyone has their own, because everyone has different ovens.

So the desired result can be achieved only empirically, constantly recording the changes being made

MistletoeThank you very much for your help!

Gasha, thanks for the advice, tell me, are they only applicable to 100% rye bread? In general, what is the ratio of flour to start with the rye dough. I have been baking for less than a month, making a mixture in about half, but I still want rye ...

[Natalek111]

Natalek111, if the recipe contains more rye flour than wheat flour, then, accordingly, rye flour plays baboutthe most important role, and the dough can already be considered rye ... I wrote in detail that I started baking from a ratio of 60 to 40 percent and reached 100% rye bread.

Bread bakers, help with advice please!

We bought a Panasonic SD-2501WTS, baked bread only according to recipes from the book, kneaded the dough. We tried to bake black bread, but there is no recipe, we bought a ready-made mixture and did not know which mode to choose. As a result, he did not fit and did not work

Tell me, which simple one is better for my bread maker: - \ recipe for black bread and on what mode to bake? We are completely newbies

Choose absolutely any recipe according to your taste. Start with recipes with less rye flour. They are easier to prepare. Good luck!

After choosing a recipe, it is better to ask questions about choosing a mode and cooking technology directly in the topic of the selected bread ...

Gasha, thank you very much! I just registered on the forum to learn how to bake delicious bread, so I haven't quite figured out the topics and what is done

[Olya and Julia]

Olya and Julia, quietly figure it out, everyone started like that!

Thank you so much)

Hello!
Develop my thoughts, please:

I am looking here at the recipes for rye breads (including those in the instructions for the bread maker) and I cannot understand: the program of the rye bread machine does not care what size the loaf will be at the output? And then if you count the dry ingredients in recipes for rye breads, then the range is somewhere from 400 grams to 550.
Do I need to adhere to some kind of "golden mean" (for example, measure exactly 500 grams) or is there no difference and just the loaves will be of different sizes?
I have a Panasonic SD-ZB2502 bread maker.

[DragoNika]

DragoNika , ask your question here:
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=197192.0

Gasha, thank you very much for the very valuable advice and moral support! I didn't know a lot, I learned something from my mistakes, and you have such a piggy bank of bread wisdom!

(I also came across this advice: In order to find out if the bread has risen enough, you can make a test: put a piece of the prepared dough in cold water. The piece first serves to the bottom, and if it floats up, then the dough is ready)

And this advice applies to baking bread in a Russian oven. This is how the readiness of the bread is determined. When they put bread in the oven, pinch off a small piece and throw it into a glass of water. The dough has surfaced - the bread is ready. And rye is also delicious if baked on a cabbage leaf. It turns out pretty well in the oven too!

Hello! Help with advice! I am a young baker)))) I bake rye bread mainly according to the recipes of Vanya 28. Everything worked out, but the last times the bread for some reason turns out to be a white top .. I can't understand what I am doing wrong. Here is the last bread she baked: rye flour 500 g, sugar 20 g, salt 10 g, agram 1.5 tsp, water 430 ml., 1 tbsp. l. oil, yeast 8 gr. The lid fell a little, and again it is white. What is it?

[OlyaMama]

OlyaMama, you are welcome!

Venus

Let's get it in order ... I didn't bake bread according to Vania's recipes (and it would be better to address questions about his breads to him), but I can assume that if everything worked out before, then it's in the oven. The first thing that comes to mind - the lid began to close loosely or you have a stove with a window ... Try to grease the top of the bread with a beaten egg + 1 tsp.sour cream and cover the bucket with foil on top

Thanks for the answer! This only happens with rye, wheat ones always work well, but I will apply your advice.
Is this possible if agram is mixed with vegetable oil? Today I tried not to put butter in the bread and the top of the bread turned out right ...

[Venus]

Venus, I have not used additives like agram for a long time, but as far as I remember, no, that's not the point ...